to our continuing coverage of cop 26. the you and climate change summit in glasgow despite joey speeches, u. k. prime minister, worth johnson, is that a rocky start to the summit, being questioned on its commitment to the environment in the face. when you, coal mine in cumbria budget that cut taxes on flying descent within his own body regarding pumping raw sewage and rivers in a nuclear sabrin deal with australia that arguably lead the country off the hook when it comes to net 0. so what does the man advising burn stroke as government? think of all the alleged advocacy board demon is the chairman of the case independent committee on climate change. he was conservative party chairman under margaret thatcher and the longest ever serving u. k. secretary of state for the environment, he joins me now from the summit in scotland in, in glasgow. i don't know, it's noisy there, whether it's crazy there or even then tell us about the summit because everyone here is going methane success, forestry, success for the whole thing is a great success. although we don't know, you have to wait until they finish it. but at this stage, we do have some bearing just improvement, so not least, the willingness of back government to sign up to stop by deforestation, which is something that russia has signed up to. i'm sorry that russia has refused to sign up to meet fame casa, the reduction of methane is a hugely important thing. but other nations have done that. and there's a very significant improvement in what people have offered. so it looks to me as if we are going to have a reasonable successfully, we entered, or we left paris with looking as if we were going towards a level of about 3 degrees increase in our temperatures, which would have been disastrous. i think we might get it down to under 2 and a half degrees in this conference, which means we're going to be on the way to getting it down to 1.5, which really matters. yes. has been a talk suddenly in age of countries of the absence of change in being in vladimir putin. um is, is that not quite accurate in the sense that negotiate is still there? at the summit, they just didn't appear in the photo opportunity which launches cop summits. well, i don't about photo opportunity. one of the advantages of these are some, it says that other people are able to bring pressure to bear. and countries like china and russia law unused to their lead does being brought to us by other leaders. so i'm sorry, they're not here. i'm pleased to see that they knew japanese prime minister is coming because he thinks it's important to be with his colleagues and trying to work out together the answer. ok, i suppose they would say they loads of negotiators there, but then they could also maybe remarking on the fact and, and i know your committee that when they be talking about this one, how can birth johnson tell other countries to do what he wants other countries to do in their 40 fossil fuel new projects on the table, which would emit 1300000000 tons of greenhouse emissions, 3 times existing u. k emissions from, you know, i'm, of course, talking of the camber oil field, a 30 other offshore oil and gas project 7 onshore. any, any success at stopping birth? johnson, having shell oil, which is known for its work in nigeria, how to code settlements? is britain going to allow this oil field in shetland? well, 1st of all, ah, he is signed up to the biggest cut in emissions of any country by 2030. what he does about these oil to the levels are by 2030 like russian signed up to neither of these. and yet, what forest johnson is doing is doing it not as well as i want him to do. i want to push him even harder. i mean, i'll get to that, i'll get to net 0 in the issue, i'll get to the issue of net 0 in the 2nd, but i know you're advising him not to do these things and you might have seen, there was an interview where i think his eyebrows were raised because i think it was a b, b, c that interviewed him. and he said, look, i'm the prime minister. this is a local government issue. i mean, you to believe horace johnson. when he says that, could there not be any legislation to pass through parliament to make it and make it illegal for, i mean, this is the legislative stuff, isn't it? he could easily say, fossil fuel emission increases should be the centrally government. well, now we can't, because actually it is partially the responsibility of the democratically elected scottish government. so he's got to say, what is absolutely true will actually harming on the coal in cumbria opening these new coal mines. well then on the table, well, in that case, she's absolutely right to say that it will be the government to decide, but only after the in after the independent report has been given you read, we are a democratic country with balls. i know that doesn't happen in some other countries, but in best country you'll have to obey them all the prime minister has pro bay the law, so he's got to wait until that report comes. and then his minister michael go will make her aussie judicial decision on his own from a judicial point of view. and we have said to him that we expect that decision to say no coal mine in umbrella. ok, now let's go to net 0. you might have heard it because i know that you are a ceo, were chris stark was talking about this. of course we can achieve 0 and we look very impressive here in britain with that 0. if we're burning bio mass, which is burning foreign trees, which take maybe 30 years to reach maturity and burning them up at drax power stations. and then we can say when at 0, because this is the emitting this fossil fuel than if it were to be burning. guess . i mean, you know about the concept of sequester, as i know your committee is looked into, this is net 0, not a fraud. should it not be real 0 festival where nat geo, because human beings of that you and me and you dimensions. so whatever you do, you can't have 0 emissions unless you have a dead planet with no trees and no animals. and no humans, what you've got to do is to have a balance of nature, which is that you see question, at least as much of the emissions as people put out. so net 0 is a statement about the nature of man is behind, isn't it? i mean that just take that drag power station if it's suddenly saying, i mean you're, you're basically outsourcing the emissions to developing countries in order to saying that 0. that is entirely untrue because the rules about what tracks have to take on a very clearly don't allow them to do that. but what i will say to met 0 is very clear. we have to sequester take into the earth as much of the emissions as we put out, if we are going to do this job properly. and that's what most notions of signed up to. and it's what russia has signally failed to line up to. and i believe mister putin is not here, but he doesn't want to hear what the rest of the world would tell you. that's why they're not. if you be very critical of russia, of china as well and of australia. why do you believe that? i'm not sure the whether you do that somehow the submarine deal, which i know has been discussed there on the sidelines of 26. not really an environmental to hoping between resident mackerel and scott morrison. maybe why that should have been leverage for environmental fossil fuel reductions on the part of australia? well, as far as i nodes jabbering, deal has got nothing to do with the net 0 deal. but what i object to, and i said this many clearly is that we should not shine the current free trade deal with australia. unless australia commits itself to a kind of deal as far as agriculture is concerned. which parallels what we're doing with agriculture, which is going to be a serious change in the way in which we fall. and we need to do that. we are going to sequester those. so that top and both in trees and in the soil. i mean, do you, do you believe then the, the breakup of large scale industrial farming as a part to play in her? well, in this battle against the climate, there are climate change. i don't necessarily believe in break up, and i don't believe in break up of large scale. what i do believe that regenerative farming is absolutely necessary. i'm a small farmer myself. all i say to you is that if we go on farming as we have seen, then the soil will not produce the hobbies. we've only got a certain number of hobbies to use these mountain methods. so called mountain methods which are increasingly old fashion because they deplete the soil and they stopped you having the crops you need. so those of us, we're talking about regenerative farming, a talking about getting what we need from the soil enough by future hobbies. if we go on like we are a moment, we'll only have 40 years of all this because the soil would just simply be unable to support what it needs to support in terms of, of new crops and more and more farmers are discovering that themselves, which is why they're moving to a regenerative system. and on the issue of sequestered, i mean you, i mean, i don't know with the, we have you met with the prime minister there at cobb $26.00? i mean, is the, is a general attitude in the whole, maybe definitely not with the indigenous peoples represented their presumably, that is a question. the only way forward. i mean, he famously said bart's johnson capitalism is the way to save the planet. well, we certainly aren't going to do it without the market because the market is what drives the u. savings. and what is happening now is that the financial world has understood not only that this is the direction in which governments are going, but also that he's the only way that they are going to protect their own assets from been spending. so financial institutions that in best, for example, in farm that recognized that if they want that farm land to be productive, they've got to move from where they are to a wholly different form, which is regenerative. farming and sequestering is part of that. they're going no wonder they are now investing in, in trees on the light, because they see what the future is. i'm always a believer in following the money. they know there is such a future without she seek was ration to take a lot of time for those trees. i better just us, you know, any australians watching how come you being so are showing that it's got morrison when joe biden is backing oil sands pipelines, the line 3123, enough trillion over 10 years for the pentagon. we don't even know what the pentagon, the is a meeting in terms of the environment is not even in the climate change her calculations there at cop 26. i know that it's a 140 nations put together the next entry countries combined in terms of defense expenditure. why do they calculate war earthquakes? when i'm stressed on aging, that all you're doing is ignoring everything that people are doing and trying to find something wrong with it. i'm telling you that story. morrison is not doing anything like as much as joe biden is committed to. scott morrison is not doing anything like it's not just a new zealand, it's like doing all and he is in a part of the world in which because of climate change, home nations will disappear beneath the sea. and he's also in the country, which is particularly concerned about immigration. what does he think when large numbers of people out will be on the move? the cost out whole countries like bangladesh lie beneath sea level. the trouble is, you are arguing from just particularities, instead of the generality of here is the great nation of the united states. it's rejoined the whoa, it's committed itself, a major changes, and russia has done none of those thing. and i'm looking for russia to do that. and i'm sorry, missed a few innocent here for me to tell him that my tell us may and directly and, and just finally you said to degrees that kind of area. whoa, how can we be optimistic with a 2 degree increase? and that is your most optimistic now? no, i don't we. i think we've got to get down to 1.5 degrees because without that huge areas of the world are going to be in a very serious position. and i don't believe that we richer countries. i'm countries like russia should talk about this in a way which, right? so most of those countries near the equator to weather which we have never seen before. and that is what happens if you don't get found to $1.00 increase, which itself is very considerable. law devin, thank here. thank you. after the break is this bad for the environment. what about yemen? the world's worst humanitarian crisis. fueled my host of coff, 26 britain, which continues to sell weapons, the destroy lives and the environment of the middle east. all the some all coming up and bought 2 of going undergrad. ah. now it just seemed wrong when i just don't hold any world yet to shape out the scene because the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah welcome back. this week's cop 26. some it is arguably put pressure on will lead us to commit to a net 0 emissions target by mid century a target that some it host you can pm bars. johnson's pledge to reach, but will you get the ball save and continue selling weapons to saudi arabia, which is bombing yemen? there was worst humanitarian crisis joining me now for sure. and you guys ox, fams arms and conflict advisor martin butcher. martin, thanks so much for coming on and aside from the environmental destruction in yemen to the people themselves, i better ask you because we've covered it on this show with martin bell, the units have ambassador, who is hugely critical of british arm selling. we now know that the former foreign office lawyer, molly, molly, mal ray, the claims that boris johnson would just joke around when discussing civilian casualties in yemen. what, what is the scale of the crisis right now in the poorest country in the middle east? i did, the crisis is really unimaginable and obviously it's completely inappropriate for anybody to be joking about the deaths injury and displacement of people in, in a war zone. but the crisis in yemen has been, has got last year on year for the 6 years of the war. and now in particular, we're looking at a desperate battle for the city of mary been and, and it's region and something like 3000000 people living in that area where before the war there were only a 6th of that. and most of those people have been displaced once already. they're in a desperate situation. food is hard to come by. and clean water is hard to come by . and now they face because of bombing and shelling and the moving front lines being displaced again with really know where to go that, that safe away from the fighting. i mean, the statistics are terrible. 2000000 children under the age of 5. suffering acute malnutrition right now, but as you know, the british government says there's no serious breach of humanitarian law as regards british weapons sales. and, and what does this got to do with british arm sales? the british government through us. it's a having less trust the foreign secretary, who i know apologized unreservedly for an error and grudging arms lies to said, concluded, notwithstanding isolated incidents, incidents would have been factored into the analysis as historic violations of international humanitarian law. saudi arabia has a genuine intention capacity to comply with international military and lawyer. i mean this, this is clearly not what we see on the ground. and we see breeches of international humanitarian law. i'm serious violations breaches that amount to war crimes happening on a regular basis. you know, all sides in the, in the conflict of committed these breaches. the difference for the u. k. is it's selling weapons to saudi arabia to allow it to do so the u. k. arms industry sells something like 25 percent of its product year on year to saudi arabia alone. and that is then used in yemen. and we've been seeing here just over the past week in, in, in merit your civilian subjected to repeated bombing. and you know that the idea that the saudis are complying with international humanitarian. lori's is just ridiculous, and that's why you know, oxfam having supported campaign against arms trade in its 1st judicial review. a government actions is now moving to support support them in their 2nd core case which, which should come up next summer because we don't think that the british government is applying either british law or international law properly. yeah, but i mean, there was a court order against sales and they said the now foreign secretary, when she was promoted after a violating the court orders. so what would you need? i mean, they, they, you know, she had to go to the commons and apologize for 2 or 3 instances of issuing licenses against the instructions of the, the appeals court and the government. and through a year long process, ordered by the appeals court of reviewing the means by which they issue license is the risk assessment procedure that they use as to whether the arms could be part of breaches of international humanitarian law. and now they won't tell anyone about it, they won't explain how it's different despite the fact that they have since resuming licensing and issued more than a 1000000000 and a half worth pounds worth of licenses to go to saudi arabia and you know, the total now over 6 years is a, is over $15000000000.00 in sales, or we ride the saudi arabian ambassador on and overseas. are the rabies says it's killing terrorists? and bryant is tomorrow's johnson. then foreign secretary said, clearly there was a test when did as you minutes military law as to whether these weapons might be used in commission of a series bridge and said that regarded all the information we as, as the test has not been met. and aside from the r, a, f training, saudi arabia, to kill terrorists as the ari of trainers probably think. it seems that i had called 26 extension rebellion piece a offshoot of extinction. rebellion has said to let it be a systems world as be a systems have in, in 2000000 children under the age of 5. now suffering acute malnutrition, they would say then they would, they would say none indeed. but, but yes, be a systems is one of the largest seller of, of arms to saudi arabia and in terms of the, the cop and carbon emissions. so, you know, we know that military operations are amongst the largest contributors to, to carbon emissions in the world. at the moment the united states air force is said on its own to, to emit more than a $140.00 countries every year. and you'll be sales to the americans just as it sells to the british and to many other people in these are issues that have to be got to grips with, as it stands at the call for military emissions, won't even be part of calculations that accounted to fight the in, fight against climate change and yet military emissions and of course it's top secret depending and emissions. i know you said that in terms of order of fossil fuel emissions is gigantic, there's nothing to say to the b, b, c. the statement that the media is in any way compromise directly for not talking about this with respect to call 26. your reaction to these reports that the international arms will be, be, see, receive $300000.00, about $483000.00 from ramco in advertising revenue. the b, b. c has committed to dekalb and icing itself. and you know, it's a, it's obviously not compatible with that, but it's a trade what i mean as regards the arm strike we, we need to get arms companies and military operations inside the calculations of carbon emissions and being reduced. you know, the quickest way of reducing them in yemen would be to get a ceasefire and get negotiations for a peace agreement between the internationally recognized government and the haiti's underway and other parties that are fighting in yemen to try and reach a sustainable peace deal that the people of yemen can live with, i should just say the b b c says we have their guidelines around advertising, which publicly available we take care with will are evidently sure it's not mis misleading, as regardless connection between around come is all part of the big saudi state, in furnace to the joe biden administration, and presumably you annex applauded this at the time that they were ending. support for offensive operations in yemen. and then now they've just signed a half a $1000000.00. military contract is, is a youtube. yeah, this is, this is clearly concerning, and i mean that given the government and companies benefit greatly from the arms trade, there is always this tension between trying to uphold international law, trying to uphold the declarations they've made and making more money. the this latest dale concerns attack helicopters and maintenance of attack helicopters, which are certainly capable of being used in an offensive operation, and therefore, would seem to be against what joe biden said. on the other hand, it's several years since the saudi sent their attack, helicopters in t m. and because the heat is land to shoot them down. so if, if the biden administration is using this deal to keep saudi helicopters out of yemen that will, that will benefit the people to learn. but it's, it's, it's a, it's a real tight ripened on the face of it. as you say, it's something which is really not compatible with their stated policy. i mean this so much military stuff happening during co op, 26, the august deal over submarines, for instance. i mean that's actually being talked about the sidelines with environmental summit. but as regards what you just said, i mean the, by the ministration, the state department says that maintenance support services, help saudi arabia maintain self defense capabilities to meet current and future threats. so, strengthening defenses. so is the united states. so got a clear conscience in the british government here. now, i mean the, the, the united states is a bigger supplier round to saudi arabia than the u. k is, and a lot of the arms they sell are being used in yemen. you know, they just as britain they sell, they sell bombs and support services for plains that they have previously sold, that are used to drop to drop bombs in yemen. they said they don't have a clear conscience a toll. i would say the difference between the biden administration and the johnson government here in the u. k. is that the johnson government is just denying all responsibility for what happens in yemen and claiming against the evidence that they're not supplying items that are causing the homes there. where is the biden administration is at least in its declaratory policy meeting. there is a problem and saying that trying to do something about it. i mean, you study all these on conflicts. obviously it's worse with co read. now is another another factor. why do you think that, i mean the u. s. is occupying lots of syria, of course, britain of united states sending a carrier strike force to china. why is no one talking about the fossil fuel emissions of all these different activities at club 26 is? is there a particular reason that lobby power or i think it in a government's all, almost all kinds of, you know, maintain military forces. i mean it iceland doesn't have a military and costa rica doesn't have a military. but apart from that, i think, you know, every country in the world has a military of some of the smaller low lying islands that are going to be affected by climate change node. well that, that's possible. and so i think it may be a mutual interest typically in the big countries that are responsible for most of the emissions. and you can look at the u. s. the u. k. but also russia in china and many other countries and say you, maybe they've got an interesting keeping this off the table. because it's, it's something that they all do. and they, they don't want the criticism landing at their door and changing their military operations. but sooner or later, you know, we were going to have to come to grips with this modern. gotcha, thank you. thanks very much. that's it for the show will be back on saturday. the day of mass mobilizations all around the world against perceived in actual, beyond the rhetoric at the called, pretty sick summit in scotland until then keep in touch my role as social media and let us know if you think the u. k. should continue, i'm sales to sadie wright. ah, in russia this kind of car was discontinued more than 20 years ago. even though, staying with us a sort of can you sell it to proposal a better deal with just important factors? it took 5 years to close the gap on the world car industry from the drawing board to the 1st finished model escapes as well over a show to fire tools to deal with my food ocean from a small through some troubleshooting stuff. almost. then you could get the customer with us or join me every thursday on the alex salmon. sure. i'll be speaking to guess what the world politics sport business. i'm sure business i'll see you then. ah, a whistleblower report of the british medical journal claims there were serious flaws in the testing of fire. as cobit vaccine will us authorities have been reluctant to investigate them thus far. a report coming out on unprecedented new lo relations between france in australia. take a further plunge after the leak of a text message from president kron on the submarine dale cancel between those 2 countries. despite hosting the u. s. climate summit, the u. k. own green pledges come under screwed to the as 40 fossil fuel projects look to get approval. we speak to a local residence, anxious for one particular project to get the green light the big go ahead to step forward.