another 6 months as the country records it's highest and daily posted death toll. since march. those are your headlines. i'll be back in just under an hour with another look, this is our to international. glad to have you with us with with hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . is there now a dual system of justice many think so, for example, a former senior at b, i official life repeatedly to his bosses. but now is exonerated, but a former head of the national security council did not lie to be f b i and his life was destroyed. where is the justice in that? i cross sucking dual justice. i'm joined by my guess, lionel in new york. he is illegal in media analysts in boston. we have sabrina salvatore. she is the host of this abbey subs podcast and co host of the fred hampton left his podcast. and in tampa bay, we crossed to david or north sky. he is the national radio host of and neighbors choice across cycles in effect, that means he can jump in any time he won and i always appreciated line, oh, let me go to you because you're the 1st person i thought of when i wanted to do this. program at the end of last week. um, there seems to be more and more cases of gross injustice where people break the law and get go. scott free people that are are under suspicion of breaking the law. none the less their lives are destroyed. of course i'm talking about any mccabe and michael flynn. okay. both were i'm accused of lying to the to be a p i one did one got off the hook, his whole pension, the whole thing and the other guy left bankrupt. okay. now irrespective of if you like either one of those guys, the outcomes were very, very different and it tells me that there is a dual system of justice. am i wrong go? headline? absolutely not. in fact, my particular favorite is the fact that we are making so much out of this january 6 . trespass has been called everything from the worst insurrection. we actually had people in congress say that it was worse and world war joe and civil war and 911. at the same time. while, by the way, here in new york in new jersey, there were billboard to see if you know anything. if you know anything about any kind of interaction, call the f b i. at the same time, i'm here in new york. when we had this city, almost in flames from b, l m, an antique riot, there wasn't the slightest interest in finding out who was responsible, who organized it showed which a double, a standard of justice and it also some particular crimes. don't get any attention whatsoever. and this from a country that says equal justice under the law and the 14th amendment of equal protection, which is the cornerstone of our system. it's disgusting. i agree with you that a the january say the, the whole narrative is insurrection. but i mean, the only thing that people have been charged with is trespassing and parading, and i didn't even know parading was illegal until this came up here. sub sabrina. i mean, the hunter biden lab, top story is another really good example here. we're in a, it's a 3rd rail. you can't talk about why can't you talk about it. and that was an in kind of contribution to the biden campaign. and that, that's tipping the scales. it's really, really unfair and then afterwards, whoa, but they don't deny it. okay. but you supposed to not talk about it still. ok. and you know, a gun charge here. when i got going back to the january 6th, the officer that killed ashley babin walking, scott free and unarmed woman was murdered in broad daylight. no charges. sabrina. pete. this creates a lot of anxiety for obvious reasons. go ahead. sabrina boston. yes, so i always like to say we don't have a justice system in this country. we have an injustice system that serves certain people. and those people are people that are wealthy people that are powerful people that have connections with the right people. and there's also a racial component to this as well. the reality is black and brown. people often do not benefit from the justice system that we have in this country unless they fall under one of the categories that i just mentioned, whether they're wealthy or rich, or they have the right connections when it comes to hunter biden. i expected this to happen because he's joe biden. sime joe biden is very powerful. i mean, the fact that he was elected and he's accused of sexual assault, just just shows you exactly how, how much power that he has when it comes to the incident with the police officer. that doesn't surprise me as well either. because police officers also have power. so that's really what we're looking at here. we have an injustice system in this country. but david and, and tampa bay, this isn't tenable because it is eroding confidence in institutions that were already in doubt. ok. and it continues down this path i, i'm glad lionel brought up january 6 weeks because we can hammer away at this all the all program long. but you know, they will look at the couple outside of saint louis last year that were to defending their property. i mean, very controversial for a lot of people, there, lot of different elements right there. but i mean, the basic ideas of self defense. now you may not like that. couple, you know, may not like the politics. but you know, if someone breaks down your gauge in his certain saying terrible things you threatening your life and your dog, i mean, they should be given due process, but of course they were guilty by the mainstream media. go ahead. david in tampa bay. yeah, i think you're right and i, i see points with all the different contributions thus far of this discussion i, i, i agree with rina that on my program a neighbor's choice. we have people call in with sentences for life for 1st time non violent offences. sometimes just totally roped in to some kind of conspiracy charge. and before cove it, they were allowed to call and get 15 minutes to talk on the radio to tell about their life what it was like before they were destroyed. it's true if you're not part of a wealthy establishment connections or, or if you're in a underserved community, you really can get really, really destroyed. i think my friend rufus rochelle has been serving 32 years for ghost drugs. a still on home confinement is that the nicest man you ever meet, or craig cso, who again was doing body work on trucks moving marijuana. everybody who moved marijuana got out, but he went to trial. now he had a life sentence. he just got clemency from the previous administration with trump. but yes, elaine, els also right that there seems to be a real politicization in this unit party establishment that has this desire for perpetual war perpetual global institutions. having control over our legal structures or trade agreements. and if you're not part of that click, if you deviate even one iota off of that narrative that dominates both parties, then yeah, i the books going to be thrown at you if you are, you know, getting in the way of the narrative or the policies that both parties, the mitch mcconnell, the pol ryan's the nancy, pelosi is all agree on. so, yes it's, it's both the, every day and justices of people who get thrown away because of the prison industrial complex. but it's also, you know, folks who, whether they're on the left or right here, a lot of people in the truck ministration had really gotten an unfair a deal in attack for every little thing. while the hillary clinton people got off the hook. but guess what, you know, someone like a, a, with julian hassan, she's on the left and you see they've done to him. so it's not about left to right . it's about people that go against the unit party. i actual, i thought we would have more disagreement on this for him. we're all in a why i agree with everything. all of you have said here absolutely. here in a lionel ego going back to, to january 6th, me in the when you look at the people that are being charged and some, i'm broke the law. absolutely. and, and i, i'm for fulfilling the law. okay. but it's punching down. and that is the message, the powers that be, are sending. we can punch you down and they're punching down at some of the weakest people in society. and i find that terrifying because these institutions were designed to protect the weakest in society in it. now it's the reverse. go ahead, lionel. let me throw something into the mix here which nobody even brought up. and i don't want to add this after that. they talk about insure rection. now i'm a lawyer by professional former prosecutor. i know a little bit about this, and he come to my insurrection as though it was this act which really wasn't, was more like an expression, believe it or not, for a few people who actually conspire to interrupt a form of government. it was sedition. who even or not that wasn't even mentioned. let me say something very quickly. do you know what would happen in any other parallel universe? if you went to a face, a court judge, a federal judge, and they found out you lied about about job. russian trollops, a relieving themselves in the per kale of some a hotel that never occurred. or basically using story lines from yahoo news as a basis. and bases for article one, carter page type of it deemed the most egregious form of surveillance. i'm not one federal judge, not one face a judge ever said, order to show cause come back. i'm going to show hold the whole justice department in contempt. it was like nothing. try that with anybody else. it is though, they just didn't care. they're asleep. this is alien to me, irrespective of politics. i mean, i knew there was always the allegation of bias, but this is just incredible ebit lionel medina. what this is, is that they're claiming this is a higher cause and that's a slippery slope. okay? because their cause is not high for me. ok. i would like i would prefer the law to figure it out. ok, not preferences. and that's terrifying. we've seen the dish a degraded immensely at the highest levels over the last few years. it's sabrina. let me go, go to you. i mean, the, i'm sure you've been following this, these are the teacher parents, protested p t. a meetings. okay. and, and were, and having the attorney general i'm signal that these people could be designated as semester terrace. i mean, what in the world is going on here? okay. i mean, when you, when it comes to your kids, people can get hot under the collar. i think everybody understands that, but designating them this here. again, punching down at week people go ahead. sabrina. yes. so when the george floyd protest happened last year, all across this country, by the way, the message that was delivered after that is that they really do not want us to protest at all. and there are states in this country that are already implementing laws to make sure that that happens. they don't want people to protest, ah, so now there seems to be this negative cloud over protesting, which is our constitutional right. they don't really want us to fight for rights that we deserve. they don't want us to fight back. and the excuse that they're going to use is that we are violent that we are righty. and now you see that even is peaceful protests. they don't want those to happen either. so the message that they are delivering is that they do not want the people to rise up and fight for the rights that we believe that we should have in. this is very upsetting in a country where the constitution gives us that right? so little by little, we are seeing our constitutional rights be threatened to absolute. this is something that i, i saw this coming, i saw this coming on. so for the american people, i think we need to pay very close attention to this and make sure that we're aware of what's going on because if they're coming after us for this, what are they going to come after us? we're big way to and the 1st part of the program we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on dual justin state with arctic. ah, ah ah ah ah. a becomes the advocate, an engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. when i see black and i was growing, you know, like america spoke to me. when, why destroyed you did not lose your sight. black life matter is a movement. we are importing from america. no, nothing of who we are. i lived in a world where wide lives mattered. and i was not why. why commission? i know i wasn't new from black america. i learned how to speak back to why a bridge or people are more every day. we're moving them now with the police were out, we just eats. i'm scared that more children are going to grow up in the country that think says no racism, but they're more likely to end up in the criminal justice system. then they're all the fellow friends in daycare. so it gives rise to the question about these crises and who's behind them. we had the sub prime prices that resulted in minute printing that made the top get richer. we have the call, the crisis which has resulted in the top getting richer because of all the money printer. and we had a war in afghanistan go on for decades, which resulted in money printing in the top get richer, you know, and, and, and then you can get into the other, you know, into some other areas as well, a really making some hard making hard question ah, well connect across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter level to remind you we're discussing dual justice. i was go back to tampa bay and david did continue our discussion until justice here it seems to me it's quite obvious that the media and i go across the spectrum. ok, i'm not singling any one out here. just amplifies this sense of being a grieved, i mean that the currency of the day is victimization. and they're just different groups of victims. and people are given a specific focus here. again, it's punching down at people and it's intentionally dividing us. and i was right before our program i, i mentioned to sabrina that i was watching that cruise on jimmy door. i didn't disagree with anything. nick had to say, okay. and i'm a conservative, but i'm very open about that. okay. and the media, i think, do not want us to have a normal decent adult conversation. they always have to throw in throw us into a minefield and make us argue about things that we really don't really need to argue about. okay. certainly there are issues because some of the cultural war things fine, but i mean on a lot of issues, there's a lot of commonality and powers that be do not want to see that kind of connection made. go ahead david. yeah, i think is an accusatory machine. the media operates on this divide and conquer thing. i guess it's good for the special interests that you know, pay their advertising dollars, whether it's big pharma, big war, big raytheon, big, whatever, big food that gets a sick and you know, all these things that they just want to keep the status quo. i'm not saying they intend to keep a sick but with the food and in pharma, but it ends up acting like a very kind of self interested accusatory machine where we're always being pitted against each other, sliced and diced into different, different victim groups. and once you take on this role that i'm a victim, it's like a concern. care kind of thing where, hey, i care about you so much, but you're such a weak victim. you need to join my political faction and surrender your human empathy. your ability to have mercy, your ability to have forgiveness, to transform and reconcile relationships, and just trench into a victim status and it concerns it makes itself look like it's trying to empower you. but by branding all of us on the left or right, or whatever, as you're a victim, you can't escape, you must get revenge. all that does is divide us from being able to see each other as human beings so that we can have crew empathy, true forgiveness, not this tit for tat, escalating? well, you hurt me why, i'm going to go to the state and bludgeon you are coerce you are hurt, you know, it's about, you know, turning the other cheek and learning to say, look, just having trench warfare over who's the most victim here is never going to make anybody better, it's only gonna victimize, all of us. we can't have a 0 sum game. we've got to have a win win game where we get outside of politics. we get into the world of innovation and poetry and art filmmaking. the things at the renaissance is all about science technology. we don't have to fight over healthcare if we can find cures for cancer in diabetes, right under our noses, maybe it's things we have to do with nutrition. the point is we have to come together and not get caught up and rush, lunch room drama, about you're a victim or i'm a victim. no, i'm a victim. no, i'm a victim. that's never going to solve. anything that only destroys and victimize is all of us in line, because this whole path, the victimization. i mean, at some point, you know, you demonize a group of people long enough, they're going to hate you back. okay? and this is what we're seeing, okay? people are saying they're not going to put up with it any more. okay. and we've seen it with, with, with parents, we're seeing it as a result of some of these mandates. i mean, some of them most talented gifted people are, are now being demonized because they didn't do a quote unquote the right thing of what they're supposed to do by the powers that be, that very often don't do it themselves. okay. and again, you know, i don't want to bring politics into this here. but what i, when i'm really fearful of is that people are going to reject any kind of institutional authority. this is the breakdown of society, lionel, let me add a little twist. if you can and not to bring politics into it, but there's a story that is happening right now. all over the country. and here in new york, there was a case we're almost done in the middle of the night, these, these unmarked plains, land and kids. oh yeah, kids they call him home miners are unaccompanied, get off, and they get there spirited away and caravans of whatever was now in any other world. left media, right, media at the local news, somebody would say, wait a minute. these are kids. not only is a tone deaf regarding politics and, and law enforcement with the media are in this weird dog whistle, stunned obeisance not to say anything. it's as though, and by the way, if you thought that the left wry media, that this illusion was an illusion, you ain't seen nothing yet because nobody saying anything. they have the same marching orders. so not only do we have a justice system that failed, but we used to have this aggressive left, right media. they don't even say anything when tens are involved. but if dave chappelle decides to become the, i don't know what the george washington of comedy they can't get enough of it. so we have a mis application of priority in terms of what matters. and what does it gets in sabrina? i mean, i'm glad i'm glad lionel brought that up because, you know, i watch a lot. i watch a lot of media cuz it's part of my job here. and i am just so sick and tired of the culture wars because you know what? it, you may not, you may like or dislike a statue. and i don't have to name any names here. and you moved that statue has he? has your life changed for the better has any one's life changed for the better? okay. we can have historical debates. hi, i'm a trained historian. i love history. okay. but i was more concerned about inflation and i'm about kids education. okay. transportation, all these things here. but no, we got to talk about this statue here. i mean, that is so self defeating go ahead supreme. well, all of those things that you just mentioned that you're concerned about, you're a conservative, i'm a leftist, i'm concerned about all of those things as well. yeah. and this is the thing that media does that mainstream media does cnn, fox news. they divide us between red and blue when the real issue that we should be looking at here is class. it is a big problem in this country that we're the one her said they are the ones who control the government. they are the ones who are making the calls here, not the people that you put in office. and if we can just get, get past the fact that someone is in a different political party than us and just come together, conservatives, democrats, independence, et cetera. we will realize that we have more in common than we may think. and this is something that i talk about often on my show, you have to talk to people who are outside of your circle. you cannot just continue to talk in the, to the people in your circle. that's how you reach other people. and one thing that we can all bond over is labor. we see a lot of workers rising up for labor movements in this country right now. going on strike. and also the class issue because the reality is those of us who are at the bottom and most of us are most of us are not a part of the, the top one percent. we all are being exploited by capitalism in this country. and i think that's something we need to be focusing on and not so much conservative versus democrat. i couldn't agree with the more david because you know, i'm a, i'm a conservative and i talk about class all the time and it gets my conservative friends, furious a kick, why are you talking like that? because that's what matters. ok. because that's the way people are controlled. ok, and they, they've about politicized the justice system to make sure a class isn't talked about. ok, they make you your, your slice and dice in every other way, but not by class. and that's by design, david. yeah, i mean it's a just us system really, you know, and, and that's why the things that you see, i believe it's crony capitalism or corporatism. that it's, this marriage between big government with its coercive power to initiate violence and force in its on, on its clients behalf. and that's the big business which is wedded to them together . and that merger, that unholy alliance is what we're all tired of. we all want to break free from that, and it's all a debate between the left and the right about how we do it, how we really government, or do we shrink big business by using big government? and that's the big debate, right? and so that's what we need to have, and i think that's the healthy conversations that i we're having right now is that, how do we do it? i believe it's not going to be through electing politicians. i think it's gonna be through us rediscovering that same american renaissance spirit that allowed us to have folks like nicola tesla develop alternating current. and the wright brothers who said, hey, let's make a flying machine. and everybody said they were crazy and delusional. it's that can do spirit. that's going to say, you know what, you know, tesla didn't wait for congress to pass a bill to give him alternating current. he just put it out there. and guess what? billions of people to day still enjoy the benefits of having lighting and all the things that come with his invention. we need that back in america. that's how we have that true progressive spirit that honors human beings and does not discourage hard work, doesn't discourage showing up on time, doesn't discourage individual personhood and trying to lump this all into little members of tribes that have to go to war with each other that doesn't solve anything, the true spirit that made america were the most prosperous nations in the whole world. we've got to revive that, like it better than ever before. we can rely upon these monopolies and that's for sure. okay, they destroy innovation. okay. these monopolies of the line. let me go back. you, you brought up january 6. i want to end on it here. we keep hearing about it. it's drip, drip, drip, drip. though no one has been charged with sedition and treason so far. i mean, where is this going because what i watch here is that this is a perfect distraction about really what's happening. i mean, we're seeing huge changes, social changes, economic changes happening to honda, tens of millions of people here, and all we hear about is january 6, january 6. um at one point in time we get there. good people gonna realize where they already have that this is just all an illusion. people that broke the law should be prosecuted. i have no problem with that here. but as this country is changing so much work, they're losing sight of what people really think out there because it's their narrative. it's not our narrative go, headline will finish up. there is nobody right now that i know of in this country you want to run lamenting of january 6. let me also tell you one of the biggest problems you talk about a double tiered system of justice. you know, there is exculpatory evidence that the government has to provide evidence a shows you are not guilty. and yet they don't show the hours upon hours, whatever of certain numbers of the capitol police and come on in, come on it. and this is not exactly 11 visitors insurrection. that being said, it's overkill. the countries habituated to it. but those in charge don't seem to matter. it's air story, it's a dog and a boat, and they're not going to let go. and what's happening is that they're actually, it's going to work against them because the country really wants to move on to things that matter. and this is not one of excellent. this was an excellent program . it shows people across the political spectrum can actually have a decent, meaningful conversation. and i thank you all. many thanks my guest in new york, boston, and tampa bank. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember crossing ah. is driven by drink shaped banks, printers and those with dares sinks we dare to ask it's been decades since the fall of spain's fascist regime, but old wounds still haven't hailed your and you can go into them resorting because only coming out to you a nickel, freedom ok, give it to me. so i will said cutting me on the bus at the station. you know that i just, i think with thousands of newborn babies. what toned from their mothers and given away and fullest adoption? they don't allow bought about or you just yell for faster than my own robot is ophelia elements. it to this day, mothers still search for grown children, while adults look in hope for their birth parents. join me every thursday on the alex salmon show. i'll be speaking to guess in the world of politics, sport, business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. mm ah this is been by and visit say you can't afford to med,

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