To discuss these issues and more, im joined by my guess, glenn, these and and also he is a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as the author of the new book, great power politics in the 4th industrial revolution. And in budapest we have george semi welly, hes a counselor of the gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals are a gentleman, Cross Stock rules, and that means he can jump anytime you want. And i would appreciate it. Oh, its going to george, 1st thing, budapest, george. You know the if you, if you look at the liberal media in the us, there continue to be obsessed with january 6. Even on the 20th Anniversary Commemoration of 911. 00. They had to poll january, thinks into it, and then over the last week we have a story about the joint chiefs of staff, general mark, milly, according to news reports, we have that and have them confirmed. And we know the general in front of congress before the end of the month. But instead of saying, oh my goodness, what a breach of the constitution of norms coming from such people. There seems to be scant really interest in it. I mean, he did it because hes a patriot. Well, since when breaking the laws. Patriotic. Yes. This is entirely correct. And were already used to be around the, during the, from years we had 4 years of the intelligence services actively working to subvert the administration. All duly elected president , and this is what we have in the case of general milly. I mean, lets keep in mind his 1st, according to the woodward book, i mean, his 1st Meeting of the conference with the chinese took place on october. The 3rd before the election is before the election. He gave them a warning and said, well, i think trump may want to attack you, you know, even when you play weapons and i, the chairman of the joint chiefs will in to see and give you advanced warning. So this is an extraordinary thing, and imagine youre going to adverse, there is a, a great power, and youre telling this great power that you will come to mom, any orders given by your president. And this is, it was shocking. And then there are further shocking revelation. Remember, we had the previous book in which milly was supposedly worried about a coo, organized by trump. And he said, wow, dont worry about a thing, you know, where the guys with the guns which suggest again that he is the military is planning on using guns against the do like a present. And it was, this was all a complete fraud. He was just simply an accumulation of power, use a patient of power on the father. Milly, i mean, trump is given no indication that hes going outside the constitution going beyond his power. You know, hes going to court on everything some cases. Hes one, some cases hes law, but hes always expected every decision of the court. Everything you did also the lecture was again, entirely in accordance with the law and the constitution. And apparently in one of the phone calls, the general mentally tells his counterpart, a general li, i think his name is, is that there is no political instability. Him, you want us to say something about like mean do you believe that there is instability here at bridge general to be doing that out of the chain of command is breathtaking. Really scary. Ok, glen, i mean, you know, weve seen a deterioration of the rule of law for political purposes in the name of an ideology. George is absolutely right. You could love or hate donald trump there. Its never been any indication that he wanted to study a start a war anytime, anytime during his administration. And we know because of the poorly sort of president by john bolton. And he had a golden opportunity and in like a 90 Minute Window to start a war with iran and heat. He stepped back and he was political capital foR Doing it. So, i mean, it shows that, you know, these institutions have very little value. If your idea logically possess, thats what it tells me, go ahead plan. No, i agree. And i think that this a great fair enough trunk would undermine democracy. Fuel this future it system which itself became a threat to democracy for me to throw them institutions. Its a large expense, the result of what they referred to as a deep theyve now usually people are hurt them. Indeed, been at the very something theyre right winger and bring up all over. Did they simply means that you have an i like about, you know, like the bureaucrats on the, like the military leaders supposed to be an instrument of elective obligations. But instead, the beginning them to function to some extent of the independent power and pursuing their own agenda, which can be logical in this case, often linked closer to the democratic side. And what i was going to call something generally called chinese general, a lee shang, behind the president back and gave him a warnings that promised him a warrant if they would use military force. I mean, this is quite extraordinary, respectively banding civilian control over the military and also not the 1st case. Again, george was right. During a trump there, you saw the military leader of bragging going to the media that they were able to subvert civilian leaders by making well, by rejecting the saying that they didnt want to carry out trans orders and they leave the whole is call space, tried to undermine him undermined him time after time. And, you know, general milly pointed out its, you know, theyve expressed the belief that russia was the real out there in china. So thats kind of his foreign policy and he is running with it. So its in glenn if, if, according to general Lily Russia was the primary Adversary And Weve been out of things. Why didnt he call the russians . I think is a part of the point out not this is not just the case. The one about an indication that the stomach, because you can see, based on the reaction and how the democrats react to the small, nothing by below say they seem to be quite fine with how nearly acted and you know, a rows of the control and the military so im glad you brought up george. This is just not nilly. I mean, this is an unelected official that works in the executive Branch Concluding when the speaker of the house. Now this is what is called a conspiracy. Ok . A real one. Ok, inspiring. Going around the chain, the command subverting the rule of law and to burning additional Value Principle that the military serves the civilian order. George yeah, yeah, thats right and wrong. But i mean below state is in the legislative branch. Shes clearly not in the chain of and shes a highly partisan. This is here, but this is, this is so she has a very much a political agenda and mentally those perfectly well. But she has a political agenda. So when he starts talking to her on the phone, she tells him, well, ignore the orders of the president and then they, they dressed up in some phony. So were concerned that you might use nuclear weapons total nonsense. But eventually, what is going on here . Gender, the joint chiefs, hes colluding with highly partisan legislator to disobey combines they did you like the president . It is absolutely shocking. And so, you know, you measure be to that you will be testifying before congress and we know whats going to happen. And the democrats will run interference for him. You know, theyll all be asking him the usual questions. You know, general milly, you know, you are a patriot. Well, how did you feel when somebody like donald trump came along and started undermining the constitution . What youre feeling when you go thats, thats not going to be it. So Glen Glen is right to me. You have, the democrats will just quickly happy with this and it is ready, go shopping, use the face of the reading. It was even more shocking here. Is that according to milly and well, we know other people are involved. If the reporting is true, we have to have that cant be on, its very important copy on here. But, you know, trump was criticized endlessly for trying to end wars. And now hes being, being accused of starting a potential war. I mean, he Cant Win for losing this one here. And im glad that george brought up what we could potentially see if congressional testimony. I think we know what the democrats a script is going to be in liberal media. Theyve already shown their carts here, but i have a lot of doubt that republicans will be particularly aggressive because of the 2 words that you already mentioned in our program. The deep state or the administrative stage of the permanence that whatever you want to call and ok. Because it shows that the, these elected officials either are very dependent on, or you even fear be in the military and the intelligence community. What we have here is we have an inversion of what the power relations should be. Go ahead, glenn. There. Remember us . Yeah. About a year ago. Schumer or in the 2018 or 19. You had the schumer, janet, from if you go against the intelligence, i dont see if they have many way of getting back at you and you know, i didnt see anything wrong with this statement. They can act as a member and the power. But again, this is what happens when you have other polarized. So this is the political system. If you consider the political position to be illegitimate, then theres no exceptions for this new center of power. Effectively Intelligence Agent is the military to the couple of in from this was deemed to be the legitimate civilian control. Effectively accept that as part of the resistance to counter the president. So again, i would often going to, its a bit ironic that the accused him on time to start a war with china, which, you know, there was no indication that shouldve mentioned this at least before calling the chinese 1st. But by the way, they really around the obstruction, i guess trauma was when he wanted to pull out from syria when he wanted to pull out from a gun as it was his effort to stop these words when they really went in to mock him. So its, its very, its are dangerous development, which is not in the u. S. Benefits from, i mean, and i thought it was great that and brought in the comparison with the rush to get years because of the same. You have intelligence agencies in the branch of power effectively, deliberately spinning different formation that undermining their own precedent because they dont or they didnt agree with this. Paula. And how else can you define this in a deep state . If you have on the bureaucrats like the security of this one run in procedure on foreign policy, its worse for its, you know, you know, for free for years and, you know, anonymous, anonymous source, whoever that is, you know, ran the new cycle. And then you have to prominent not particularly virtuous people in my opinion, but prominent journalists, laying out their sources in their and their findings here. And a few people just kind of scratch their head and say, you know what, what, Whats Tomorrow is whether going to be, i mean its, theres them in the face that, you know, want to come to terms of that and what the, and any president that comes next, or even the current city know how much competence they have. The military is going to be following them. You dont have that competence finish it up. George said, i knew they really shouldnt have gotten it because the democrats make a great when, you know, weve got the military on our side. You may not have it because, you know, linda, you know, who takes gym to the joint chiefs. You may not like the democrats policy, you clearly feel entirely unencumbered by any constitutional inhibition. I mean, we, we talk about russia again, why didnt like its policy toward russia . So ill take a little jump in here. What goes around comes around, all right, were going to go to a short break. And after that short break, well continue ouR Discussion and some really stay with the man across the board of the Search And Focus bittman. Go ball. You got me all the oh, oh i oh god me. I understand. I join me every thursday on the Alex Salmon Show when i was speaking to guess in the world, the politic sport business. Im show business. Ill see you then me ah, working machine. She popped in, she said, well, im getting ready to go shopping for christmas. And we, we said goodbye. There was a good device to another, shooting another safe part of american life shattered by violence. The gunman was armed with an a ar 15, semi automatic rifle. When the issue comes home, its time to act. When were filing on this issue, the other side wins by default, lady that lived over there. I was walking one of the dogs. She said, why do you wear again . Were you scared that i took it off and i think the people need to take responsibility in their own hands and be prepared if those kind of weapons were less available. We wouldnt have a lot of shootings and we certainly wouldnt have the number that i could make aCross Stock. Were all things are considered. This is the Home Addition to remind you. Were discussing some real names. Ah, okay, lets go back to glen and also the french are kind of upset right now, and i think this is a statement here we, we have the united states, u. K. And australia, inventing a new i dont know what you call it alliance with, but really official. It is essentially its a P R Campaign at this point. That is, everyone knows that is focused against china. But in the process, a major Submarine Deal that the french were counting on went up in smoke without them apparently being notified. And of course the u. S. And the, and the u. K. Come in and filled the void. What does this say about Nato Unity . Because and, you know, why do you feel if you are the australia and they said to him, harry, b, u, k, you know, doing a or a bending one of their important allies, friends . Mean, wouldnt you think . Maybe theyll do it to me. I mean, i know very few people kind of thought out the implications of this here. This is how you treat allies. I thought trump was the guy that treated allies badly. Go ahead when a little from point to the development on began under obama, then trunk, and they thought them to with by coming in the things will be different. However, this is a much broader change in international system. But if youre not a state of new priorities, which means it will focus less on europe, which means that the irrelevant front in the world will diminish. Now its important to point out the west that the unified region only really developed in opposition to russia when it was the principal adversary during the cold war on union. And after the cold war, when the west kinda wanted to collect the edge of money which re lined on marginalizing russia many times the right in the rise of china changes. All of this goes to the us focus and resources will now be directed towards asia. And so there will still be in still follow us. Lead by the us will be less willing to devote the efforts and resources to europe. Its in R D and something changed. So i think that maybe your p in an american interest are also changing theiR Down prioritizing europe want to be, are being supposed to do so to some extent. And to go along with this, you know, making, they took chinese power as well. About the end of the day. America interest is not in europe anymore. So this is, this is why the french, i think, the strategic relevance declining. And how else can you really interpret this a french, how to deal with those trail for 10000000000. 00. The years went behind their back, got the deal scraps and put in a new deal. And its got to make sense from the american perspective as well. Because they see the chinese not being the main threat. So theyre building up regional, the outlines against the chinese and in this alliances. During cold war, the americans tend to favor trade deals and the technological transfer them, you know, having the interconnect, focusing more on its key allies. So simply, the role of france is diminished. And the said, if youre really wants to have some relevance, especially problems, the really need to have an independent foreign policy because retreat under a u. S. Which doesnt care about that any more. So im sure right now theres someone in higher speaking about the need to charge a new, an independent forest policy, especially towards china because this rent and then this public having to reduce the ability for the front office. And its that it creates reliance on the u. S which prioritize europe, so if its something more than the making and i dont know if i did a biden will be different from it through the obsession with child, but he was the source of all evil. Its called national interest. George, me, it kind of choice words coming from the branch manager, but i can quote theres been lying you with and he made here Maries Trust and can tell this will not do well. What are you going to do about it . You the french died themselves. Students to do nato and to the united states. What leverage did they have 0 george. Thats why they were notified. Her, their feelings well cares. Its nato. We run it and when we think its relevant, its important. If its not relevant, its not report. Okay. You see, i mean, i think its almost like childs play. The see the french reaction. They mean all this, you know, know you, you made the bed together and youre left in it. Go ahead george. Yeah, yes. Thats, thats exactly right. And where are you . What ideally should happen now is france, germany in europe reconsider. What doesnt matter what the policy is really about. But its very unlikely to happen. I mean, you know, 1st of all, nato has expanded to go up a whole bunch of states that are rabidly anti russia because what would clearly make sense now for europe would be to, for some kind of a working friendly partnership with russia. I mean all this that, that should have been the policy in the 990, but its going to be very difficult to do because youve got all of these State Face Bowl and then you know, the unit for expend remaining and so on. What really, georgia, they are going to tolerate, any kind of move towards a Rep Rushman with russia. So whats really going to happen, i think, is what the americans envisage is a division of labor. They say ok, were, were a global, we have the global reach. So were going to focus on containing china, you, the europeans, you focus on containing russia, and then well have this, the, you know, dual containment policy. And i suspect, but eventually those are the french are kicking off off. Theyll be able to go along with it. Oh, probably we know the blue, you know, the next the meeting of whatever the g, 20 or the nato. Whatever. No, probably 30, yeah. Okay. Was fine. The u. K. Plays a crucial role here because the u. K. Is in this agreement with contain China Agreement and ive been also blustering about what were sending our warships. Busy into the south china sea, but do you guys also a ne so, and its going to push a strongly anti russian line. And so its going to be very difficult. I dont see the germany as really having the will to forge a new direction. Okay. But glenda that assumes that russia really is a threats to, to the european union. And i would say its not, but i mean, can, can, can you play that fiction forever . I mean, considering the resources youre going to have to devote to it. I mean, sir. Ok, its still up in the air. What were going to have the german election that the greens have any kind of real power. I would tend to agree with george. Ok. But brand certainly doesnt feel that way. Italy, spain, and so forth, is going to be a kind of an internal Nature Minus us the, the nato members in europe. Its going to be a real interesting squabble. Ok, because you end up in a way back the Dog Situation with the eastern. So we know what these to be and their role in the, the coolant in 2014 and in care of. I mean, it didnt serve the purpose of mission, but they got stuck with it. I think it to get stuck with an anti russian agenda in georgia, suggesting yeah, well, thats the problem. Thats how your security institutions have been set up where you have, if youre going to have a europe completely unified to accept the largest country and obviously in europe without becoming against automatically, you will have conflicts, someone didnt. So the problem gets them to go back and looking at some of the initial structures in a 900. 90 of course, did become an opportunity to maybe reconsider about the of the members about you. And they dont, they know theyre like want to, and banjo, they just have this rushing component to the foreign policy in a while theyre loving for and, and so, but again, for congress like from there, there is a bit of a dilemma here because if you want some strategic relevance in the world on one hand, traditionally and for the past decades, theyre relevant to hinged on the us having a key interest in europe, in the front line against russia, which is why they have this central role. But now that says shifting to another place to keep the relevant to the further coming to us, which doesnt really care about them, but then they will just become independent. They will, will become even less relevant oR Do they try to form in their own independent foreign Policy Break coming from us maybe. And the policy is worth china and russia, but in this case, americans might undermine them again or punish them for this or so. Then they had to do have a real dilemma simply because the world has shifted this, the central graph, there is no longer in europe. This is not where the major politics is. What i, one of the french going to do to remain relevant. Obviously this is the price of being irrelevant. You buy your enemies and you tell your friends this is carla can explain this. So she, surely they can continue in this way. They all in the germans. They strike deals with russia when the american strike deals with russia and pointed out before the really, the probably concerned a little bit as well because, you know, they went against the china pulling all these and they lost a lot of train to the chinese and a lot of it was picked up by the americans, so they have to start to have a Fun Point whether or not this is their national interest or the bidding on their own horse theres theres a lot of stigma. So george, american back bills, i think that continuation was what was saying here in all of these calculations v o s as the center of gravity. But when thats the gravity starts moving around. Predictable way in states. Weight is, is less less attractive because what they would have been doing us were head. Yeah. Well, i think, you know, if the europeans want to be relevant if france wants to be irrelevant and wants to get washingtons attention. Spanish, are you a foreign policy . The washington doesnt like that. That gets washingtons attention. If wrong. A gall. Yeah, exactly. If macros saying, hey, i think its time for a new relationship with russia and he would stop signing. It was sort of agreement visiting russia put in visiting parents. And so that would get washingtons attention. If you go whining, oh please, please, please pay attention to ours, where were still, frankly involved in the well washington. We thought all this, you know, weve been hearing this foR Decades. You know, we know that he was going to come round and do what we say in the process. But be a question about germany, but prosperity has an opportunity and out, as you say to you, i goal is the foreign policy. It would then have to go against the u. K, because the u. K. Still very influential within nato, and wed have to then see what happens when the weather in germany, some new kind of leadership going to merge that will have your a really con, just go on hiding behind america wherever your journey, you know, not telling them the, their nato outlines, they were leaving Event Number one, then we have this Submarine Deal. Number 2 in very short succession. We have american Patriot Missile systems being removed from Saudi Arabia and other places here. I mean, a lot of things are moving around right now. One thing is for sure, the, these old in stone principles about foreign policy architecture. Theyre all moving away. Theyre crumbling, like deaf and, oh, and this is, nato has a good opportunity to rethink it. So maybe we think itself out of existence, start talking about its own real national security gentlemen would run out of time. Want to take my son are slow in budapest. I want to thank you for watching us here. Are to see you next time and remember ah ah, ah, ah the when i was the wrong when old free. Just dont the rule. Yes to see out the thing because the after an engagement equal betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart and we choose to look for common ground in the the, the, the, the britain of the he, you condemn russias parliamentary elections. And the few remaining votes accounted 6 that sound multiple injuries and shooting in a university in central russia. The alleged attacker is under arrest. One student describes what hes telling my friends and i was standing at the Parking Lot near the entrance where the Gunshot Journey and sold a shooter spending 20 meters away with his shotgun. The suspect was arrested by a single Police Officer who entered the building after he heard about the gunshot. It risked his life to stop the man who also fired at him