Need revisions. Second, its bad for the west because it antagonizes russia and also it tries to achieve result it cannot achieve. There wont be a renewal in russia. This issue now about the nevada, the app, as some people have called it this, this was tactical, voting up, which google and apple have allowed access to, which is forbidden that has not been resolved that, that issue. But some people are saying that that was interference. What is your feeling on that . But imagine if in the United States, russian companies had a device that would allow voters in the United States to find out how russia would like them to vote. That will be a huge scandal. You know, we all remember russian gauge was i think it was a fortune for american viewers for at least 2 and a half years until april to 21. Basically. Mr. Miller, mr. Miller, acknowledge that there was no confusion. But we have evidence of western total support from the radical position in russia. Youre just have to read the newspapers in the west, north and russian. Well, that wraps up from Election Headquarters for this. Our rest assured our team of anchors and correspondence are going to be with you throughout the next 2 days is voting right through to bringing you the all important results on monday morning. Continued coverage for you here. And also were going to bring you updates on that breaking News Story that were covering. The stay with the updates coming your way in just 30 minutes time. The news join me every thursday on the Alex Simon show. And ill be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport, business. Im show business. Ill see you then. Me the with with the hello in welcome to Cross Talk. Were all things considered. Im peter lavelle, western Civilization And Culture have been infected by a mindset that price is ideology over Competence And Virtue over reason. And democracy is only a good idea if and when it serves a lead interest. Then theres the issue of competence. Competence used to be rewarded. Now incompetence is overlooked when serving ideology in the Cross Talking incompetent deletes. Im joined by my guest, John Laughlin in paris. He is a University Lecturer in history and political philosophy in New York. We have danny. Hi phone. He is an independent Journalist And Author for black agenda report. And in toronto we crossed arthur clear all he is at Liberty Advocate and Freelance Editor or a gentleman, Cross Talk rules and effect. That means he can jump in anytime you want. And i always appreciated john when i was reading my introduction, when i said in my introduction, our liter apprise ideology, over Competence And Virtue over reason and you started nodding your head and the Program Hadnt even started. So why did you nod your head . Go ahead. Well, i think youve chosen a very good subject because what i think is that the western world, unlike eastern europe, particularly russia, is in the grid. All left is by left ism, i mean, not necessarily socialists. So people who want social justice, but instead progresses people who want to the who believe in progress. He, the people who believe that the world is in a bad the world that we have inherited does not wrong with it. And that it needs to be changed by the force of the human mind. And because that left is progressive, it was not discredited in the west as it was in the east. That means that our elites, who are largely progressives, believes in ideology more than in reality. They want the world to be different. They believe that they are the people to make it different because they have more knowledge than ordinary people. And they despise and look down on ordinary people precisely because they regard them as educated. So i think thats the key to this domination of ideology and this pricing. As you suggested, the realism that is like a cancer, actually on western societies. It is, it is a cancer because this progressive ism is always parasitic. Its parasitic because it is only based on rejection. Its based on rejection of the past rejection of the way the world is at the moment. It doesnt have any other energy except rejection. And thats what makes it parasitic and thats what makes it so deadly. I would say for western societies, well, i would, i would add, particularly when, when, when you have the people in charge that are show their grossing competence. Every step of the way, danny, i would suppose that you would disagree with a great deal of what john, how had to say, please go ahead. Well, i would disagree, but with the caveat, because i think that there is a kernel of truth here. I think the truth is that the elise that run the United States in the western world with the United States that the head, they indeed do, especially a certain section of those beliefs do have in their more so called neo liberals, or just liberals, so to speak they really do have a vision for creating this sort of Plural Alady within the population. That is not so much about equality and so much about improving the lives of the very people that theyre often speaking of whether were talking about ethnic minorities. Were talking about people of color in the United States, lets say black people, but really its about the preservation of power. It is about reproducing the very social relationships of Oppression And Power that has shaped the very concept of western civilization since its inception. And now were seeing a crisis of liberalism where the entire western world is really tearing apart to the left into the right. And i think this is because liberalism, in neo liberalism, in particular, does not have a solution to the real material problems that are affecting working people across all races. But in particular, those groups that have historically been more oppressed and more exploit over the course of history. I think, i think youre going to be a little surprised that you know that arthur and john and myself are nodding through a great deal of what you had to say. And im really glad that danny made the distinction with liberalism, neal liberalism, because to be honest with you, and maybe ill surprise john a little bit here. I dont have a lot of problems with a lot of progressive ideas. I really dont. Ok, arthur, what i do not like is how liberals like to recast reality and say this is where we are, this is where we live and these are the, the they a target. Why were in that way these people did this be the know they have done this, but its been their script for decades and its run by completely incompetent people. And then they turn around and say, oh, youre an insurrection. If youre a dissident and you cancelled no, you dont want to have a conversation. And thats what ive been begging to do for 10 years on this program is to have a real conversation. Instead of rephrasing it and throwing woke words that mean they dont have any idea what they mean, and they dont want you to know what they mean because they dont know what it means. They just want to convoluted the conversation. Sorry for my ran, go ahead and jump in right there. Well, no, its really interesting. He said that because i have to say, i agree with both john, danny and yourself on this to a large degree. You have to johns point, a group of global and national leaks that tend to be the same people generally, which is something that needs to be pointed out. Who have this vision of the world or the Thompson Division of the anointed. And they, they want to implement, they think theyre smart and everybody, they want to implement this, this plan. And i think that its a huge, they dont even realize how much they dont know or how much they cant control. And then to dannys point if division, because what happens is you, youre instituting your program and youre putting up whatever lies or fibbs or, you know, propaganda. You have to do to make people believe that this isnt just your agenda. This is somehow in their favor. And people can see that this is not for me, youre not help my life actually getting worse because youre pursuing what agenda is it, john . You know, i mean that its such a good point that arthur just made there because, you know, they talk about these great ideas that they have for humanity. But really theyre only interested in the repayment of Self Interest and preservation and preserving their status quo. But i mean, if you look at the last 20 years of the quote unquote, a war on terror, you know, you know, the contractors, they pulled in 4 trillion dollars and they own most of the media. Ok. And they continue to turn this thing around. Arthur is absolutely right. Do these leads ever suffer the consequences of their policies ever go to you, john . Yeah, well, the contract to get the military industrial complex. Yes. But what about the Stock Market in the, in the financial, getting richer all the time. When else gets poor . Yeah, i mean, all these were all, its, were all 3 of us of all 4 of us saying the same thing in a different way. The point i was making about progressives and snobbery. I mean, we all know this. Hillary clintons deplorable, of course, these people are incompetent because theyre not interested in promoting the common goods. Theyre interested in their own power. And theyre motivated in my view. Yes. By greed, yes, by, by vanity and so on. But above all, by this terrible snobbery. And by this terrible belief that they are somehow in the vanguard of good and everyone who is against them, should not be, as you say, peter, debated with or convinced, but instead destroyed. Right. And this is the most horrible aspect of it. I have in mind what im saying, this horrible quotation for marks in which he says that a critique is no law, got a matter of debate, but instead a weapon time that the adverse theory is there to be destroyed with, with argument not, not to be debated, with and this unfortunately, of course, is what the world we live in with as again, as mentioned, have some culture and all the rest of it, right, least along together. All these things belong together. Because if you are an ideological progress and you believe that you are in the vanguard of civilization, you believe that you by definition, better than everyone else in particular better than the majority and, and the majority is in fact an existential breast progress exam. It has to be have to be what destroyed so well said, you know, you know, danny, before the, the whole Cobra Thing in lockdown time i was in, in the u. K. Ada julian found event. And i spent most of my time talking to and about marxist a very, very wonderful person. And i told her, i said, lets talk politics, but lets keep culture out of it. And she said fine, we got on like a house on fire. We really did in many, many ways because it was the cultural things that these liberals do and fake conservative. Do they keep injecting it and it just flood zone. And Theres Nothing meaningful to talk about. Because the sub subjects are never address that effect. Real people and all 4 of us are very interested in the fate of real people. Go ahead, danny. Well, what liberals doing, what the neo liberal Ruling Class has done is they, theyve separated culture from materialism, from the very realities that working people deal with day to day and so well. Progressive ideas around culture may have validity, right . Trans rights, gay rights rights for ethnic minorities, those should be supported. But when theyre detached and then weaponized from the material realities of the very people that youre speaking about, right . Because you talk about trans, right . But rarely will the neo liberally talk about homelessness, or talk about the wage discrimination or anything like that. Theyll use it instead as a weapon to reproduce their own positions to make the system actually more effective. And thats what we have like a gender report. Thats what i am always talking about in relation to the democratic party in the United States, which is the beacon of liberalism here in the United States. Its that the goal of the democratic party is always to make the system more effective. The system led by corporate elite financially and the oppression of the vast majority over by the vast might by a very tiny minority. And so that is what i am interested in. I think that is the most important point that we can make about culture. Is that sure . The idea is, as you said, peter, they do have validity. We cant agree on them. But when we are using them as a way to, to divert attention away from real issues of power, thats where we get into the problems. And thats where we begin to have these divides, and we begin to stoke tensions among the population. And it creates a very ripe environment for the power relations of the said social order to maintain themselves and get even stronger and tighter in a lot of ways and make us all hate each other even more. Okay, gentlemen, im going to jump in here. Were going to go to a short break, and after that short break, well continue. Our discussion are incompetent, elite stay with our to the Sea Food that are maybe red or orange yellow. Maybe we assume that they going to be on the sweeter find a thing to proceed to a rounder and soft and looking they soon again, theyre going to be sweeter in some way. I welcome back to cross cock where all things are considered. Im peter labelle. Remind you were discussing our incompetent elites. Ah. Okay. Its good to arthur in toronto, you know, over the years. And one of the great things about being a Talk Show Host of a program like this is that i get to talk to a wide variety of people. Very interesting people. I was on the jimmy Jor Door show a few years ago and jimmy door, which is a real hero of mine. I go because i think he really actually cares about people. Some of his policy prescriptions. I would disagree with. But as a good faith actor, because i believe hes a good faith actor, but you know, the longer we talk, we realize that it, and i want to go back to this cultural issue. Is that to try that . Thats with short circuit. So many important conversations, and i think the liberals in the liberal project, thats where theyre say, thats their safe place. They know that if they can keep the disagreement of Doctor Seuss or something like that, you know, people are not going to talk about homelessness. The lack of infrastructure, the, any quality of, of wealth that is just outrageous right now. And for them it, thats the perfect world. And then they come up with these ideas about a green new deal. Im all for green stuff here, but im not for, for making these corporations even richer and richer and richer. And, and then you did, you tell working people were going to put a tax on your gasoline . I mean that that is insanity. Ok. So they all want to do this for humanity, but who pays for the most working people do go ahead arthur. Yeah, youre absolutely right. And that was the point i want to make up. So i bring up in regard to a danny just as well, because in canada right now, were having an election. And if you, if anyone has watched the debates, im in the candy and election. If its a circus, its a side show its, its smoking mirrors, the whole thing is distracting from real issues that are going to be affecting real people very, very soon. The economy, you know, locked down, things like that, responses to, to that virus. All that type of stuff and instead were talking about things. For example, theyll have a, an introduction where they pledge their, you know, that were on indigenous land and all the sort of stuff. But in reality theyre not doing anything about actually helping people. And theres a pond here in canada, a liberal who, who actually brought up look a either do something about the indigenous issues be, or something about it like thats really your only 2 options, are talking about it and doing nothing and what it really comes down to is a lot of these things are divisible, they are a way of distracting and getting people to fight amongst themselves because divided groups of people are really, really easy to whip into whatever folding structure you want or to with into whatever agenda. Yeah, i mean, its very interesting john, you know, one of the things that its absolutely fascinating with me. And i try to avoid talking about trump because you know, you in the, the, the liberals thats their, their favorite weapon to use now on every single topic. But, you know, the more i do during the 2016 election and then his entire term and office, you know, the more you got to know about trump odors not from Cnn Or M. S, and b c. But a lot of them have very progressive ideas about politics, like about education, about Health Care and you know, and this is the establishment greatest nightmare that actually progressives and, and trump supporters who can sit down and say, yeah, we need better Health Care. How do we do that . Instead of saying, socialized medicine, you know, they throw out all the scare words. But if you ask people, identify in red state, they do you want better Health Care . Yeah, i want it cheaper and the government should help out a little bit more because its like it is 90 percentile, but they the New York times in the Washington Post and seen it. Never let anybody know that. Ok. Because a lot of a lot of people that identified as a conservative actually are very progressive, but a lot of social issues, not cultural, but on social. And this is the greatest nightmare for this ruling lead that these 2 groups of people that are but being polarized. And theyre being gasoline every single day that he could actually sit down on a table and have a decent conversation. Go ahead, john. I think what were all saying is that these, this problem is one of ideology buses. Reality, thats what also just said, and thats what danny said when he opposed. When he contrasted gay writes with the problems of homelessness. As for me, the issue of gay rights, which is indeed a dominant one, its become a sort of totem. To me is philosophically extremely interesting because to me it has nothing to do with peoples actual rights, but is instead an ideology, its an ideology, particularly with Trans Rights which rejects any kind of determinism, any kind of natural determinism. You know, most people would say that they were born a man or women, but if youll trans, no, you decided, or at least you feel that you can insert, change your sex. In other words, change the physical side of your, of your being. And that is philosophically an extremely arresting and very powerful idea. And it reflects its belief, which i think hes dominant and i think is what were trying to, what were grappling to understand which is that through human will alone, the world can be changed. And thats what gives model politics. Its dream like quality. Eric berger and the, the great political scientists wrote about this that the dream, like when see, because people want the world to be structured according to their dreams. But they and its much ultimately much easier to live in the dream well than it is to grapple with reality. Because reality is rather stubborn. And thats what, thats what leads to these, these outbursts because people dont want to be waking up from their dream. Im sure you remember peter, the famous remark, i think it was made to possibly to justin Romando Or Someone like that by a near conservative who said accusingly to whoever it was. He said you in the reality based community, but we creates our own reality. Yeah. And that is the problem there. You cant create your own reality. Reality unfortunately, does exist and needs to be dealt with. Well, john, just kind of follow up on that as the revolutionaries of 1789, and the revolutionaries of 1970. Once you got power, Reality Set in, in a very, very cruel way, didnt it . I mean, this is one of the things i am for social change. Im for empowerment of people. I am very supportive of, of looking back and trying to save people that have been left behind by all of this because i think theyre just as virtuous as anybody that lives in Marthas Vineyard or anywhere else. Ok if not more so because they understand diversity. But danny, i guess maybe this is a point where maybe well have a little bit of a difference. I mean, its this revolutionary reach, this is where it really bothers me because these 2, theres a mindset with these people and these, and thats neo liberal ideology. But theres one thing you can do to fix everything forever for all time. And weve seen historically that just doesnt work. Ok, im a, im a green person. I do believe in planting trees. Dont litter. I mean, im, im a very primitive in environmental in that way. But when i look at all these grand plans to completely re change the economy, i just think whos going to benefit from this average people. Its never explained. Go ahead, danny. Well, i think the neo liberal class, the liberal class in general. What, what theyve done is theyve complicated so many of these issues that we are talking about in order to, as we said before, reproduce their own stature, empower within the social order. And so for me, you know, i dont think that there is any real disconnection or any kind of in tagging is in between allowing, lets say trans people that have the rights to identify as trans people and also giving them economic human rights like the right to housing like the right to employment, like the right to have their basic needs met. And i think that goes across the board for all ordinary people. And we know that because our societies are so diverse because as you said, peter, there are people who have been left behind. There are people who do suffer more, that we can have that conversation of okay, how do we bring everyone up . How do we improve the lives of everybody while also paying particular attention to those groups that have been historically and currently oppressed, more so than others . Thats not really something that needs to be spoken about in this diversionary way. This, this very antagonistic way. But the neo liberal Ruling Class likes it like that because this allows them to weaponized certain issues of, quote unquote, diverse order their way. And im danny in there and its their virtue say going that theyre somehow better than all of us because theyre talking about that. And i find that really, really, you know, im a very well educated person. I know johnson is very well educated. You dont have to talk down to me. Ok. Arthur, one of the things that really, cuz were rapidly running out of time. I hate this. If i could use the american context or, you know, the democrats and republicans that the problem is these incompetent to meet the, its the professional managerial class. Ok. And if they havent, are, or a d, i could give a hoot, i really dont care. Ok. But this again is, this is artificial paradigm that theyre always throwing out. If you know these people, they come from all these, they are all very well educated, quote unquote, credentialed all of it. But you know, one thing i cove it up can extend the war on Terror Healthcare in america. I mean, they, every single thing they touch. I cant even use the language on my own program, how i feel about it. Its a professional managerial class and they put the movements around the chessboard as if, you know, theyre there. Theyre actually mean they have meaningful differences. No, they all have the same class interests. Yes, im a conservative, i believe and talking about class because thats really important. Go ahead, arthur, class thing, right . Its, its part of reality. And so it is something that needs to be talked about and genuine. We talked about what i find interesting to what you said there is, is a bureaucratic class and it is a bureaucratic tyranny, almost that they create what it feels like to a lot of people is the symbolic, smothering mother that just will not let you out of care will not let you even attempt to try anything on your own. They know whats best. They will shut you down if you try. And, and an example of this if Someone Wouldnt want to take medicine for some reason, should that be forced down their throat out of care. Thats a good question. But if these types of questions, in their opinion, whatever they think is right, is what should be forced down your throat, whether youre, its right or not actually. Yeah, well john, you know, it again, as i could, you look at the, the, the bolshevik revolution, you know, the, the future is certain, but not the past. Ok. And this is exactly what weve had with cobra. Do you mean . You know, they need to wipe the ether because what did you say last week . What did you say a month ago . What did you say a year ago . Okay. They really waste that would go away 30 seconds. See you, john, and we finish up. Well, the fact is that when also talks about class and when you see to talk about class, of course, people think they might think that youre referring to marxist classes. Youre not using either of us, youll use your court talking about a Governing Class. And this facts that we have all of us today talking about a new Governing Class should send shivers down our collective spines. Because when the great yugoslav communist lay to dissident, analyzed, the totalitarian system that he lived under, which he then turned against. What did he call it . He called it the new laugh. Were we are, we are the perfect way to and the program here we run out of time general in many thanks them i guess in parents New York and in toronto. And thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c. You next time. Remember, cross the ah ah ah ah ah ah, ah, i hi Matt Kaiser or more of my guys to my national survival. This is a hedge fund. Its a device used by professional galle wags to earn money. Thats right. These hedge funds are completely not accountable, and were just adding more more to them. Totally, the stabilize the global economy. You need to protect yourself and get inform. Watch guys, weve got a Project Outcome the pounds again admits him, try, try, can comp will not close, only claimed innocent life. I am now convinced that as many as 10 civilians, including up to 7 children, were tragically killed in that strong. Moreover, we now with that it is time wisely that the vehicle and those who died were associated with for a direct rep. That was a mistake, and i offer my sincere apology. That mission comes 3 weeks after the deadly dr tribe, which was supposed to take counter and i