But dental spies and now is developed a striving business in private security. And he recently won that multi 1000000 pound contract. Well tim spices with me now. Tim. Good morning. Whats your summary of the situation in terms of Chaos Or Lauren order . I wouldnt advise people to go that if the measures in put in place for their protection or sound me. Contract in iraq, we still see the Communication And Coordination for all of the private security companies on the graph. The, the, me make that they work a general in charge of all of the private contracts. At that point, the us military was the largest military presence in iraq, but i did get all of the private Ministry Contract Pricing with respect to be in charge of the 2nd largest on 4th. And me, spicer is a fairly well known figure in british political and media circles. Me. But at the time of the award of the contract for iraq, it was awarded by a Logistics Contracting Sell in virginia. Not in iraq by a group of you know, essentially acquisition bureaucrats who had no experience with the private military industry. No knowledge of the different players and referred to him as a british guy. Me the the world of private security contracts. And when they heard that this company called aegis one this contract and that the people that were working for him were so africans and not american, it was just curious when youre applying for these contracts. Your bid will include you and your business is personal history. It doesnt say, you know, by the way, we were involved in this international controversy that almost cost a foreign Ministers Job be just prisons in iraq was relatively spend a free of one video which was posted on youtube from the contract out who is following the gun while playing rock music, the i, the no legal actions would take what do your weapons in this battle in iraq . For me its, its the ability to coordinate and, and continue to help the reconstruction effort. The very rapid he just became a huge company. And it made to spice extremely healthy. Me majority of americans now think it was a mistake to go to war in iraq. Really in the iraq war, the president did before the end of the mission accomplished 3 and a half years later, the debate is back over why the u. S. As in iraq, in the 1st place, public support for the war is falling. War americans want the troops to come home in a brief ceremony on a base on the edge of baghdad, the United States took down the flag of its command here to mark the end of the military mission. The u. S. Money was to be pulled out of the rocky field operations and the industry had to go to a very complicated reset. The company had to realize that they werent going to get that level of money again. Im so they had to offer different packaging deals. That meant they would have to hire cheaper soldiers. Ah yeah. Oh my god. No, no, no, no no. I i was. Ready wondering. Ready ready ready when i go from there, okay, after we meant to call home, i added to my drug use you i see anything you have going sounds good. Anything else i need to give you mine also on you know your job to buy someones going to god. Thank you. So much of an agenda and im going into the day when i was just oh i oh. Busy oh oh oh. Busy i, [000 00 00;00] i, [000 00 00;00] i all work undertaken by egypt is carried out to the highest standards of professional competence and integrity. Our Track Record is extensive in our highly trained men and women are dedicated to supporting the mission and at hand with outstanding performance. When we 1st started into theater, we were briefed on peruvian and colombian guards, and the natural question you ask is, so what do you pay for these folks at the time . And im playing off memory cells, but im pretty good at that. It was about 1000. 00 to 1200. 00 and then, oh, i dont know, 6 months a year ago, it became gordon guards at about 800. 00 a month. And wed ask the question of security companies because of the lowest price, technically acceptable rush to the bottom is what some call it Y Y O gone. Its now vs provings in columbia. Anthony so we dont have a chance to get the award unless we use a guidance because there are 2. 00 to 400. 00 less. And now on the most recent trip, the company that is winning all the awards that had this was 1st id heard of, well, well weve got a good strategy. Were used in Sierra Leonean. So you asked the question so, so what are we paying forms . But 250. 00 a month. You know, i guess rhetorically. I dont expect an answer and you can go a little lower. Can we find someone . Its like, well do it for boarding room. You know, that has such a terrible country that maybe theyll just go out of the country and be afraid, security guard. I mean, thats pretty inexpensive. Id say that it sounds facetious, but its, you know, you get what you pay for. Ah, i i the original goal was not to bring soldiers or soldiers from the poorest countries on earth, but the u. S. Bidding system requires that you pick the lowest better. So the became the Status Quo and iraq to have multiple layers of foreigners, iraqi people, for where they came from and who they fought for. So. So that would be with the colombian marines. And its a, i used to be with range in the you again, as you know, came out of the, again, an army of the challenges that i was with when i spent a month, and blackwater from pinochets private guard. And some of these countries are known for extra and the brutal Wars Mother is columbus heavily on. And theres not a lot of discussion about where did your life so long as you are in the army and you meet certain criteria. And sometimes you dont have to be in the army to meet this criteria. So the u. S. System, and of course, any business is going to put out a specification. If you can, mass has specification and your cost is lower than you in the job. Ah, theres a saying in the koran, attributed to the prophet mohammed, the dreams, a threefold. Sometimes they represent divine guidance, sometimes sorrow from the devil, and sometimes there about the conflicts of daily living and past events. This applies also to womens rights in afghanistan, today. Encouraged in the past to live out their dreams of being fully fledged human beings, african women and now being told that this amounts to satanic possession when they turn to. And on, what can they count in this time of existential struggle . Ah ah september the 11th 2001 day that reshaped the modern world i remember watching the World Trade Center burn on a tv at the cia, and i was standing there like this just looking at it. And a colleague of mine was standing next to me and he said, my god, do they have any idea what theyve done . Were going to kill everybody now. Everybody, the, the live tv image is provoked the us into declaring its war on terror. Theyve begun to bomb up, can villages on holders and get people hurt and, and killed the main goal of destroying terrorism and then was it achieved . Yes. And no. Ok to essentially no longer exists good for us. But there are certainly other terrorist groups that are worse than i, so you cut your cost, you make more profit, you get the soldier that you want, but you also majorly dilute the professionalism and the effectiveness of those. So the company is Self Interest is different than national interest companies are problematic, is what they do. Thats natural, except here were not creating toys. Were producing things that result of war. The what do you do if you have somebody from the philippines working for an american, having to try and company in afghanistan, who tell somebody what jurisdiction does that Person Fall under . We dont know international law such that it doesnt really have a category for arm civilians. The so several governments, including the british and the government, decided to start creating international norms and standards of how these probably most likely should behave. International kind of contact was instigated or started by switzerland and the international community a group of companies and engineers and states got together. And they formulated a sort of a self regulatory car to contact these companies. So companies would sign up to this code promising they would not violate it, they would not commit human rights, atrocities are not committed, war crimes, etc. So you can point to wow, representatives of a couple of nations. And oh, by the way, the private military themselves got around a table in switzerland and they agreed about good norms. The aim for her to contact you not work. The idea that a company would voluntarily confess crime. Its committed abroad just why would they do . The reality is that most golf clubs have more enforcement mechanisms than these kind of documents i and about 15 countries, ive been involved in programs to reintegrate children who are served in armed forces or its a contradiction in terms on the one hand western countries have pump large sums of money into the reintegration of former child soldiers. But now we have governments like the u. S. Supporting the so called security companies that recruit people and continue their exposure to violence and cement their identities as perpetrators of violence as soldiers that make it impossible to ever reintegrate into civilian life. Ah, now i was in there, i was a child my drug professional drug is weapon. Ah, at one time when the kids came into account, a Killer Lot of pollution pharmacies. Always a couple of looking down we had to exclusion. The 2nd place i think about when people are down on the street, exposure and sticking all over the city. And anytime had gone to short had a bone all watch a explosion. I think about my going to what happens you know, before the 21st teen for iraqi their mom and dad. It to us. Yeah, sure. Remember what happened is the people running into Gum Fighting for what that. All right, so lets try to for the on you know, is not a good one because one and just push it as a mix up issues. Ready and they seem like an actor for well as not young people unfairly on have no jobs are desperate to feed themselves and their families and result is that it becomes harder and harder to ever find their way back into civilian life and a plant seeds of violence wherever they go, well we dont always remember one thing. Im the my stuff, my wife when she, when i, when i have a one, i should continue when youre not in the west, its a weapon because im full on turn off. Which mean i can do anything with the former child soldiers have been trained to take pride in their skill and their ability to, to kill people. I think its affection to claim that they are somehow stable, that they can self regulate as well known that young people who have extensive history of violence and being fed drugs and manipulated over time they develop problems of impulsivity high levels of aggression. I is very difficult to change the mindset me is spacious, to say that theyve been carefully selected or that theyre, that its safe to hand them a gun and expect them to do a quote, professional job. I spend my life working to aid the rehabilitation and the regression of young people. And it pains me see my own government supporting the behavior so called security companies. You know, we pride ourselves on being a moral people trying to do the right thing. What were doing is were exploring people using young people whove been child soldiers, deliberately sending them into the jaws of combat and further violence. Nothing could be worse for these young people. Nothing could be worse for security. Me as a close connection between this, this Industry And Policy makers, me private military firms, really poach a retired general officers and admirals from the armed forces because they have connections. In my case enemies. I formerly have measured by and i say that it shows its real, you get what you pay for me. Ah, the Church Street will continue to act for government and youre going to see private company between engaging in warfare. Me, companies that are interesting, our culture today, the company on our money new companies that listed on our funded mental if youre a new democracy and youll government take selection that you dont agree with, you can vote that Government Town Company from your country is doing something you disagree with the people carol long when did Soldier Or Deb marine shows up in this country . Do we start to ask yourself, why did they die . Why do what were they fighting for . Nobody bothers stamps by the contractors. Oh, the who cares . Green there. Nobody going to die and come home in a Body Bag in denver, or dover, or whatever. Ah, every american who, sirs joins an unbroken line of heroes. Am awed by their sacrifice. Ah, win and get them in the book. Im not food. My doing what i may have coming to them. Youre committing behind. Who did he got it . I dont know what the navy got. Ah. Ah no one places in the street the contractors kills. Ah. Ah, countries still exercises its foreign policy, the use of Force And Violence in these 4 regions is using proxies, contractors, 3rd country nationals, and in obscuring their role. Oh, i knew they didnt end up in Iraq And Somebody from Sierra Leone in kingston. Its really your money, its your Tax Money doing it. But make sure the politicians are in trouble. Ah, ah, military directors make a decision to go to war a lot easier. Ah, Thats Part of ending a war responsibly is standing by those who fought the oh um ah, [000 00 00;00] i me ah, me in me in on, oh, i use in the pacific lag around the World Expedition by 1000 miles round the clock of the dead calm as every country close by with my food, the crew, Gavins Food and water harbor, fortune to go to chat for a little. I know i got everybody locked down or no more, no food, no. What about that . Only give them up. So somebody either stuck a species in the cove, if youre living like the theme of own but in the 21st century. Ah ah, the the on the 20th anniversary of the 911 terror attack b, i has released classified documents on their probe into those who carried the atrocity. Also this report suggest us mistakenly targeted in afghan Aid Work and a drains dr. Kenning, 10 members of one family, our we hear from a former american troll and operator who tells us that his own experiences is