A 1000000. 00 or just undeR That. And we just assumed that one of the large big american companies would win it, but it didnt work out that way. I kind of him spies to hit the headlines as again, during the ons to africa affair involving his old Company Son lives. But general spies and now is developed a thriving business in private security. And he recently won that multi 1000000 pound contract. Well tim spices with me now. Tim. Good morning. Whats your summary of the situation in terms of Chaos Or Lauren order . I would advise people to go that if the measures in put in place foR Their protection all sand me check in iraq, we still have received Communication And Coordination for all the private security companies from the graph. The make the were the general in charge of all the private contract at that point the us military was the largest military presence in iraq. But just to get all of the private Ministry Contract of spice to be in charge the 2nd largest on for me, the spicer is a fairly well known figure. And british political and media circles me but at the time of the award of the contract for iraq, it was awarded by a Logistics Contracting Cell and virginia not in iraq by a group of, you know, essentially acquisition bureaucrats who had no experience with the private military industry, no knowledge of the different players and referred to him as a british guy. Me in the in the world of private security contracted when they heard that this company called aegis one this contract and that the people that were working for him were so africans, and not american. There was, there was a period when youre applying foR These contracts. Your bid will include you and your business is personal history. It doesnt say, you know, by the way, we were involved in this international controversy that almost costs a foreign Ministers Job be just prisons in iraq was relatively standard freedom. One video which was posted on youtube from the aegis contract, who is filing a gun while playing rock music. The monitoring and the new legal actions will take what do your weapons in this battle in iraq . To me its, its the ability to coordinate and, and continue to help the reconstruction effort. The very rapidly just became a huge company. And it made to spice me of helping me majority of americans now think it was a mistake to go to war in iraq. Early in the iraq war, the president still before the enter, the mission accomplished 3 and a half years later, the debate is back over why the u. S. As in iraq, in the 1st place, public support foR The war is falling. War americans want the troops to come home in a brief ceremony on a base on the edge of baghdad, the United States took down the flag of its command here to mark the end of the military mission. The u. S. Money was to be pulled out of the Iraq Team Field operations and the industry had to go to a very complicated reason the company had to realize that they werent going to get that level of money. Again. I said i had to offer a different package of deals. Ah, that meant they would have to hire cheaper soldiers. Ah Monday Morning when no, no, no no. I dont want to. Ready ready go on as i go on after we meant to call home last night. I did. You must not be any for drug use you. I think if im not sure anything you have you gone. Sounds good. Anything i need to give you my also you know, youre not going to miss that ones going to god. Thank you so much of an agenda and he says im going into the day when i was scheduled the oh i i. Busy oh all oh. Busy i, [000 00 00;00] i, [000 00 00;00] i all work undertaken by ages is carried out to the highest standards of professional competence and integrity. Our Track Record is extensive and our highly trained men and women are dedicated to supporting the mission and at hand with outstanding performance. When we 1st started into theater, we were briefed on peruvian in columbia and guards. And the natural question you ask is, so what do you pay foR These folks at the time . And im playing off memory self, but im pretty good at that. It was about 1000. 00 to 1200. 00. And then, oh, i dont know, 6 months a year ago, it became a garden guards at about 800. 00 a month. And wed ask the question of security companies because of the lowest price, technically acceptable. Rushed to the bottom, thats what some Call Y O gone. Its now vs provings in columbia. And so we dont have a chance to get the award unless we use a guidance because there are 2. 00 to 400. 00 less. And now on this most recent trip, the company that is winning all the awards that had this was 1st id heard of, well, well weve got a good strategy. Were using sierra leonean. So you asked the question so, so what are we paying forms but 250. 00 a month . You know, i guess rhetorically. I dont expect an answer. Can we go a little lower . Can we find someone . Its like, well do it for boarding room. You know, that has such a terrible country that maybe theyll just go out of the country and be a free security guard. I mean, thats pretty inexpensive. I say that it sounds facetious, but its real. Know you get what you pay for. Ah, i i the original goal was not to bring soldiers or soldiers from the poorest countries on earth, but the u. S. Meeting system requires that you pick the lowest bidder. So the became the Status Quo and iraq to have multiple layers of foreigners, iraqi people, for where they came from and who they fought for. So some that would be with the colombian marines, and its a to be with range in the you again, as you know, came out of the, again, an army of the challenges that i was with when i spent a month of black water from pinochets, private guard and some of these countries are known for extremely broad lawrence, whether its columbus heavily on. And theres not a lot of discussion about where did your like so long as you are in the army and you meet certain criteria. And sometimes you dont have to be in the army to meet this criteria. So the u. S. System, and of course, any business is going to put out a specification. If you can, Mass Specification and your cost is loweR Than you in the job. The with the ah the ah, me the so you cut your cost, you make more profit, you get the soldieR That you want. But you also majorly dilute the professionalism and the effectiveness of those. So the company is Self Interest is different than national interest. Companies or profit maximizes what they do. Thats natural, except here were not creating no toys. Were producing things that result in war. The problem what do you do if you have somebody from the philippines working for an american Trade Company in janice, who tell somebody what jurisdiction does that Person Fall under . We dont know international law such that it doesnt really have a category for arms civilians. The several governments including the british and the last government decided to start creating international norms and standards of how these promotions we should behave. Ready in Russia Kind of contact was instigated or started by switzerland and the international community a group of companies in n, joes and states got together. And they formulated a sort of a self regulatory caR To contact these companies. So companies would fine up to this code promising they would not violate, they would not commit human rights atrocities or not commit work crimes, etc. So you can point to wow, representatives of a couple of nations. And by the way, the private military themselves got around a table in switzerland and they agreed about good norms to aim for. Ready to conduct you not work, the idea that company would voluntarily confess crime. Its committed abroad. Why would they do . The reality is that most golf clubs have more enforcement mechanisms than these kind of documented i and about 15 countries, ive been involved in programs to reintegrate children who are served in armed forces or its a contradiction in terms on the one hand western countries have pump large sums of money into the reintegration of former child soldiers. But now we have governments like the u. S. Supporting the so called security companies that recruit people and continue or exposure to violence and submit their identities as perpetrators of violence as soldiers that make it impossible to ever reintegrate into civilian life. Ah, now i was i was a child of my drug professional drill is weapon. Ah, at one time when the kids came into account, a Killer Lot of pollution pharmacies. I was in a couple of charlotte looking now we had to exclude only 2nd place. I think about swallowing when people are down on the street. The explosion is sticking all oveR The city and at any time, had gone short had a bomb or what a explosion. I think about my going to what happens you know, before the 21st team for iraqi. Theyre more strict and intended for us. Yeah. Member. So this is what happened in the, the people running into Gum Fighting for what that or like, what the about the try to foR The on you know, is not a good one because one and just push it as it makes me came up with my patients and they seem like an act, a friend, well as not young people unfairly and have no jobs are desperate to feed themselves and their families and result is that it becomes harder and hardeR To ever find their way back into civilian life and a plant seeds of violence whereveR They go. Well we dont always remember wanting. Im the my stuff, my wife. So when i, when i have a white one, i should continue with them because im full on turn off. I mean, i can do anything with the former child soldiers. Ive been trained to take pride in their skill and their ability to, to kill people. The, i think its a fiction to claim that they are somehow stable, that they can self regulate as well known that young people who have extensive history of violence and being fed drugs and manipulated oveR Time they develop problems of impulsivity high levels of aggression. It becomes very difficult to change the mindset. Its spacious to say that theyve been careful what good oR That there, that its safe to hand them a gun and expect them to do a quote, professional job. I spend my life working to aid the rehabilitation and the regression of young people. And it pains me to see my own government supporting the behavior so called security companies. You know, we pride ourselves on being a moral people trying to do the right thing. What were doing is were exploring people using young people whove been child soldiers, deliberately sending them into the jaws of combat and further violence. Nothing could be worse foR These young people. Nothing could be worse for security. Me as a close connection between this Industry And Policy makers, me private military firm. This really poach retired general officers and admirals from the armed forces because they have connections in my case to recognize enemy not formally measured by and i say that it shows that its real know you get what you pay me me. Ah, Church Street will continue to act for government and youre going to see private company between engaging in warfare. Me companies that are registering our culture in companies on our money. And these companies listed allows me fundamentally, if youre new democracy and your government takes action that you dont agree with, you can vote that Government Town Company from your country is doing something. You disagree with the people carroll long when did soldier or did marine shows up in this country and we started ask yourself, why did they die . Why do what were they fighting for . Nobody bother stamps by the contractors. Oh the who cares . Mean there is nobody going to die and come home in a Body Bag in denver, or over or whatever. My oh, every american who, sirs joins an unbroken line of heroes. Am awed by their sacrifice. Ah, win and give them in our book. Im not food. My doing coming to them. Youre committing behind on who to be got it. I dont know what they need. He got. Ah, ah no one places in the street, contractors kill ah. Ah, tutor, still exercises is foreign policy. The use of Force And Violence in these 4 regions is using proxies, contractors, 3rd country nationals, and in obscuring their role. Oh, i, you think that you get somebody from here . We open up, in this case its really your money. Its your Tax Money doing it. But making sure the politicians are in trouble, ah, military contractors make a decision to go to war a lot easier. Ah, as part of ending a war responsibly, his standing by those who foR The oh um ah, i in ah, me in me, in on, ah, having alternate realities to experience or even live in like a role or does my dear you know, especially during the and damage where you can go anywhere in the game world, go everywhere, you know, choose the game that you want. Any open roll game, choose it, and you are now on a vacation in a place where youre like flying helicopters or youre, youre on beaches, youre, youre in a city drive, you know, whatever you want. You name it these, these are getaways. SeptembeR The 11th 2001 day that reshape to the modern world. I remember watching the World Trade Center burn on a tv at to ca and i was standing there like this just looking at it. And a colleague of mine was standing next to me and he said, my god, did they have any idea what theyve done . Were going to kill everybody now. Everybody, the, the live tv images promote the us into declaring its war on terror. Began to bomb africa, villages and holders and get people hurt and, and killed the main goal of destroying terrorism and then was it achieved . Yes. And no. Ok to essentially no longer exists good for us. But there are certainly otheR Terrorist groups that are worse than i had all the 911 of us 3 R T come Memory C and during impact of the us led war on terra. Today well be hearing from a british Army Veteran on the devastating toll of just when she hear african hes been through health and youre still living it. You just get a feeling of fear. Weve lost too many people for situations which we just