Think you would ever have made it to harvard or even have made it in the field . Were extra terrestrials youre a regional scientific instruments. While its not obvious, but then for me, science is our wonder about the universe. Im falling my child with curiosity, all the labels that they had acquired over the years and department chair, director of 2 centers. All of these are quite unimportant compared to our attempt to understand the world and i pretty much share operate this if i was a kid on the farm where i was born and trying to figure out what the universe is about. And then i agree with you that there are some subjects that are to boom, and the same community does not regard this mainstream. And i worked on some of those over the years. Not necessarily related to extra terrestrials, they worked on the 1st stars when it was most very popular. I worked on imaging black horse when it was more popular, derby additional wave astrophysics, which is now one of the major frontiers in us are physics was ridiculous early on. And so im used to that situation. But if i were a young scholar, i would worry about my job prospects, and that is definitely a chilling experience to witness the pushback, but senior people have towards thinking outside the box. I think the biggest problem with that is that the terrorists, young people from innovating from taking risks. Well, i know that the, your current book came out just there earlier this year. And if youre primarily towards the general audience, its a big hit among lay stargazers like myself. And i think one of the main reason for success is that unlike the scientific community, most of us actually fascinated by this idea that we may not be alone in, in the universe. And youre actually argue that this whole, this fascination has a distance statistical probability given how many earth systems like our as exist, is that right . Right. In fact, the humans tend to think that we are especially unique and privileged. And we are born into this world, like actors put on a stage and we dont know what the plays about, but we can study the universe. We see that the stages huge extent of the power 26 times bigger than our body, where suddenly not at the center of the like, are restored to the ancient greek philosopher used to argue. And then moreover, the play has been going on for 13800000000 years. And so we came only at the end. We are the plays definitely not about us. So lets try and find out if there are other actors out there. And maybe they have a better idea about the play. And we now know that the bulk of the stars that look like this, sun hebert, planted the size of the earth, roughly the same separation. And if you arrange for similar circumstances, you might as well get similar outcomes like technological civilization of the type that we are. And in fact, most of the stars formed so fierce before the sun. And so if they had the criminal because we believe visions around them, they pre beta thus. And then they were able to send a lot of equipment into space that we can such for just like we sent the voyager, one borgia to new horizons. And i call that space archaeology. Now, before we go to the base archaeologist, the term ed. What do you think is the probability of a face to face soul to soul intelligence, to intelligent contact . Is that likely . I think most likely is that we will find the equipment floating through space that was sent by an advanced civilization. Its the experience will be similar to walking on the beach. Most of the time you see rocks or seashells that were produced naturally, but every now and then you encounter a Plastic Bottle and that gives you an important message even if its not functional. It says that the civilization is out there. And most of the equipment that we will define will not be operational because those civilization so dead by now those that sent it. But then it will give us a very important lesson about the history of things that were like us in the past. And then, you know, i think that we are probably not special unique though it used to be many more like us in the past. Theyre just like the number of ends on the sidewalk. And nobody pay special attention to each and every and when walking on the street. And thats why nobody cares about us. We need to look out and search for them. Now, one of the main contentions of your book is that in 2017, we were actually approached by a large object, an object like this, besides of a Football Field with somewhat a typical patterns of speed and live reflection. And you argue that it may actually be of artificial origin. Tell us about that. Writing october 2017. The 1st object from outside the solar system was spotted near earth by a telescope in hawaii. And it was given the name on more and more. Which means the scout in the hawaiian language. At 1st, astronomers assume that it must be a rock of the type that we have seen in the solar system. Either an asteroid, the bare rock or a Comment Rock that is covered with ice, that gets evaporated when it comes close to the sun. The only problem is that when we looked at it, it didnt have any commentary tail. There was no variation of Gas Or Dust around it at the very tight limit. And then if it was tumbling and reflecting sunlight, the amount of light that the reflected changed by a factor of 10 and nothing like the very extreme shape. Most likely pancake like flat shape, which is quite unusual for these asteroids or comments that we usually see. And then the exhibited an excess push away from the sun, the decline, the inversely with distance squared. And that cannot be explained by the rocket. The spectrum of operating gases because we havent seen anything any to the last about the 10th of its mass, if it were to be pushed by evaporation. So the only explanation that i could think of was reflection of sunlight is pushing it. And for that the object needed to be very thin, sort of like a sale on the boat except being pushed by reflecting light. Its called the light sale. And as it turns out, in september of 2020 last year, there was another object discovered that the exhibited an excess pushed from the sun as a result of reflecting sunlight and had no home authoritative. It was discovered by the same telescope, but their strong immerse realized, oh, it is a Rocket Booster that was launched in 966. 00 in the lunar land, their mission. And we know that youve had very thin waters, and thats why i had a lot of area for each mass and it could have been pushed by reflecting sunlight. We know that he felt efficient because we produced it. The question is, who produced on war more just to clarify, youre not saying this is sort of a Space Ship passing by because its built just low to be functionally traveling as far as i understood it. Say you believe that this is, this may be some sort of Space Garbage that you know, other civilizations have left behind, is that right . Its most likely space, Trash Or Equipment that is not functional anymore. Or it could be a layer of something bigger that was ripped apart. The point is that nature doesnt make very thin solid objects of the stipend. Thats why i suggested that maybe its artificial. And of course the best way to tell is to take a photograph. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. In my case, a picture is worth 66000 words. The number of words in my book, extraterrestrial, i will need to write this book. If we had the photograph and we can get a photograph on a future object that will be discovered early enough only to approach to us, we can send a spacecraft with a camera that will take a close up photo by intercepting its trajectory. And weve done that with the mission of cyro strikes that got very close to the asteroid ben, and actually landed on it and took a piece of it. Theres some material that it will bring back to our thing 2023. So just imagine seeing artificial object that looks like a piece of equipment doesnt look like a rock and we, we land on it. So as we know from living on earth, garbage always comes in huge quantities. How call me on our side, things like this. Come many years we have to, you know, put together a probe like yours you just described. Yeah. So in fact, when i go to the kitchen and i find an am, i get alarm because i know there must be many more amps out there. And then you can estimate, given the fact that we surveyed this guy for a few years and found one such object of the size of the Football Field, you can estimate how many objects one would expect per Unit Volume such that we would see one of them every few years within the orbit of the earth around the sun. And it turns out that if they move on random trajectories, if you have objects moving in all directions that without any sense of purpose, then there should be a quadrillion such hope. Its right now within the solar system, a lot of them just like and in a kitchen. If on the other hand, the object had a purpose, to visit the region of the solar system and check what is going on there. The habitable zone around the sun. Then you need much fewer objects and so we dont really know this statistics until we find more of the same. And the worst thing we can do is just say its a rock, its always rocks. Its never artificial, never aliens, therefore, business a seizure thats the worst thing we can do. The best thing we can do is find more objects of the same and learn more about them. Now you said that they are due are the worst thing we can do to sort of discarded as unimportant. And yet this is the seems to be the predominant a scientific attributes for now. You before that you faced a lot of pushback from your fellow colleagues. Even stating that a hypothesis let alone investigating is any further. What do you think is behind this resistance . Well, most scientists, like most people prefer to stay in their Comfort Zone and continue to believe that then everything they find the should line up with their what they already know. In addition, there is resistance to discussing in because of unsubstantiated reports on an identified flying objects that do not stand up to the scrutiny of science. There are these stories that are science fiction, and so a lot of scientists worried about their image and therefore keep a distance from any discussion on extra terrestrial intelligence with technology. In my mind, it should be part of the mainstream of science because the public is fascinated by instruments. To answer the question, are we the smartest kid on the block . You know, if we close the curtains on the windows and say we dont have neighbors and we are the smartest thing the world. It wouldnt change the fact whether we have neighbors or not. It would be just like the philosophers that refused to look through the telescope. Arguing that this sun moves around the earth, they knew that. And its the biggest mistake. One can make us assigned this size, is guided by evidence. Its a dialogue which nature we learn from nature and every now and then the facts. The do not line up with what we expected. And we should embrace that. We should be excited about it because we can learn something new. Absolutely. Well, dr. Lets take a pause in our own dialogue right now because we have to take a very short break, but we will be back in just a few moments in the me. The as a korea Professionals Board is much tougher on some than others. She was a year old myer by everybody. So why would somebody believe me . I was just a little girl. The price paid to, to, to achieve really was was how to read in the paper this morning. Usa swimming coach, arrested, allegedly had sex with a 12 year old girls. This happens almost every week. We get calls at the office, i get informed about one of my greatest fears is someones going to start linking all this together. Theres going to be a 60 Minute Documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming. Is that documentary . See it on the news for me . Or i welcome back to World Support with abby low astrophysicists at harvard, also extra terrestrials the 1st Sign of intelligent life. Beyond earth now enough to load before the break, you mention the push back that youre getting from your fellow colleagues and it reminds me of all those discussions about the existence of god which cannot be proven and which cannot be disproven. Thats why its a question of faith and not a science, but these cases actually different because those things can be observed. They can be analyzed, they simply dont bid our current framework and speaking about this framework. How good are we at this point as making the distinction between technological inventions and naturally occurring phenomena, especially as such, huge cosmic distances . Well, as i mentioned, it should be straightforward. If we can get the photograph of an interest that are object that approaches us close up photograph, we definitely tell us the difference between iraq and technological equipment. If we always say it must be rocks and we never take that photograph. We resemble a caveman that is used to playing with rocks and when presented with a Cell Phone. The caveman will declare that the Cell Phone is just a shiny rock because that fits the experience of the caveman. However, i do think that we are sufficiently advanced right now in the 21st century to recognize the difference between Equipment And Iraq and. And moreover, there is this potential of finding technology that is representing our future. Just imagine that we get the piece of equipment that is far more sophisticated, that the technologies we currently possess and bring, bring it to earth. It could carry a huge financial benefit there to anyone that develops it. Well, that could be pretty dangerous to now if they, whoever they are, have its amazing technology to reach us and havent made a decision to introduce themselves so far. What does it tell you about who they are . Right, so during the pandemic, i came up with the idea of social distancing at the cosmic scale. Basically, you can imagine in a bunch of vision that decides not to get in contact with lesser civilizations, because that would be great. Its quality of life. And that doesnt mean that we cannot learn about them because they must be suppose some trash into space. And just like investigative journalism go through the trash cans of celebrities in hollywood, we can figure out their lifestyle from the trash they throw into space. Now, there is the fermi paradox that asks where he is. Everybody you know, 70 years ago. And reconfirming to mistresses was wondering if there are technological evaluations out there. Why dont we see them and what most likely they havent a short lifespan, is that they can go civilization because of self inflicted wounds. They dont last for more than a few centuries. Thats a reasonable assumption or they dont care about us. You know, we are not particularly interesting for them and we as the civilization do not necessarily look very impressive from the outside. We are not particularly intelligent. If you read the morning news, when waste a lot of resources on fighting each other, trying to feel superior relative to each other. Thats not the sign of creation, dr. You, you compare us to and suggested that we may be as an interesting to them as are too many of us. But i have to point out that there are many people among us who take great interest in insects. In fact, many great Thinkers Practice and tamala, g. Charles, darby was one of them. And the pentagon recently has confirmed and numerous and regular sightings of what they call an identified ariel phenomena. I wonder what do you make of it . Can we add an interesting as we may seem to you, do you fully exclude the possibility of sparking some interest in higher civilizations . No, i dont exclude that. Then i do think that evidence should guide us rather than prejudice. There is a tendency of arguing about the subject rather than paying attention to evidence. Now, the Pentagon Report will release some data, but it will not release all the data that he has. And i think the bottom line is that there are some objects whose nature is not fully understood, been that the real and might take on it is that we should then follow on these reports with the same experiment. Basically deploy the best cameras that we have on whitefield telescope, the monitor, the sky in the same locations, and collect open data and clear up the full, you know, the purpose of science is not the to stand to the side as a spectator, but rather clarified the answer to questions that the public cares about, and here is one of them. There are 3 possibilities. Either these objects are natural, produced by nature or there are terrestrial, produced by humans, or there are extra terrestrial. And we could find the answer by getting more data on such objects, sciences about reproducibility of reserves. So we should just do an experiment scientifically with open data, reproduce the finding, if possible, and get a better assessment as to the nature of these objects. Let me ask you about this 2nd Opportunity Possibility of objects being of terrestrial origin. From what i understand, i mean there have been some leaks from that highly anticipated pants are going report the irregular side things of those things that have been recorded since the mid 1950. Then they primarily happen around the military or technological facilities as by training. What do you think are the probabilities of other countries be russia, china, have somebody else inventing technology that would be on and then defiance to the americans at that point of time, back in the, in the fiftys and on the words . Well, i think its unlikely because we have a very good assessment before the humans are capable for the limits of our technologies are quite well known. And you know, if, if these phenomena, if these objects would behave slightly better than state of the art, the american technology, i would say thats quite likely impossible. But if they behave in ways the far supersedes american technology, you would find the signature of those technologies in other places. For example, the commercial market because they would offer a great commercial financial benefits to those who possess them. You would find them in the battlefield. The location of these reports presumably originate from the fact that thats where our most patrolling activities and Monitoring Game by military personnel near these bases. And the question is whether its a phenomenon that the more global, the cursing other geographical locations. And thats why im saying we should have open data. This guy is not classified. There is no ban on looking at the sky, right . So we can have a st. Difficult experiment, not leave it to the to be the job of government to figure out the nature of these objects. But rather scientists, and this will clear up the fog and i think wed give more credence to evidence based knowledge, which is the foundation of science. Well, but theyre doing that without government would also be quite difficult. First of all, because much of information is classified and 2nd, as you rode before it would require a major investments. You look for evidence of the store. Now, if you think about it, and if we consider how much we spend on the weapon, for example, diverting even the task of it to Space Exploration may be enough. And it may actually discrete and decrease the necessity of bending so much on weapons. Because i would suppose Nothing Underscore is our common humanity more than searching for our cosmic neighbors. What do you think . Right, so 1st i would like to refer to this question in the context of science. You know, we are searching for the nature of dark matter in the universe. We dont know what most of the Method Universe is made off. It contains 5 times more mass per Unit Volume. Then all the Noise Method then that we are made often we dont know what it is. And weve been investing hundreds of millions of dollars trying to figure out the nature of dark matter looking for different types of particles. And my point is that the nature of dark matter, we have a little impact on the daily lives of people. If we do find evidence for neighbors that are smarter than we are, if we realize that we are not the smartest kid on the block, that will have huge impact on society. It will change our perspective about our lives. Are placing the universe, our aspirations for space, and then therefore we should invest at least as much as we do in the search for dark matter, or the search for the reputation on wave sources. Other things that are at the frontier of science right now and not pushing to the sidelines because then its a self fulfilling prophecy. If youre not searching for wonderful things, you will never discover them right now the funding for the search. What technological signatures of other civilizations is more than a 1000 times smaller than the funding in other frontiers of science. And that should not be the case. It should be part of the mainstream, so thats in the context of science. And then you can also bring it to the context of unidentified flying objects. As part of that, the conversation. This is the subject of interest, the public. Lets clear it up. Lets collect same data that is open to everyone that is not a matter of national security is not around necessarily just and military facilities, and its a subject that can be examined scientifically. You mentioned the moment ago that didnt have a discovery like this would have a major impact on human society, but arent you concerned . It could also be utilized in a way to increase our capacity to harm or kill each other as has often happened in the history of technology may be safer and not to look that way. Well, thats a very good question and im an optimist. I do believe in the good part of human nature and i, i am hopeful that we will cooperate as a result of realizing that we are not alone rather than society getting into an turmoil and kill thats my hope that we will all realize that we are members of the same team, the human species and the others out there. And then it doesnt make sense for us to fight each other, to engage in that rivalry among nations that to try and feel superior relative to other people. All of this is nonsense given the big picture. And then i would hope that the realizing that we are not alone, we give us kick in the right direction. And you know, when my daughters were young, they were at home and they tended to think that theyre at the center of the world and that the, the smartest. But when we brought them to the kindergarten, they got a better perspective. And of course, they would have preferred to stay at home and maintain dilution other than the smothers. But if we do realize that there are smarter beings out there, we could learn from them. We could also learn from their mistakes. If they do not preserve the climate on the planet and the result they perished, then we can do better and avoid a similar fate. While this is a fascinating subject of their love, thank you very much for being with us today. All the best with your future endeavors. Thank you so much for husband and thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on a wells apart from me. The me ah, ah, ah, i dont know. I mean, i some steps in there were rescuing the food that they were scabbing or, or where were rescuing resources that are still good. This is best by March 21st which is in 2 days. All these potatoes, hall panels, onions, all of these came from Waste Round sources. This is great for me because im always looking for a way to give things away. Dr. Because the tax laws, you know, definitely do benefit the wealthier people in our society. So that makes sense for them to throw it out right off, rather than give it to somebody who could use it, because then that person is not going to buy it. The the the Mini Yahoo is long range. Israeli leda comes to an end of parliament in a new streaming fragile relation or so to come, restoring contact and organizing direct dialogue. Adam, it shows hes expect patients to be upcoming summit with joe biden. Also to come in review of the week to bring your presence and get the lapse in the face while getting up close and personal with the crowd is supposed to call in the sy from ah