Attempt to understand the world. And i pretty much share operate this if i was a kid on the farm where i was born and trying to figure out what the universe is about. And then i agree with you that there are some subjects that are to boom, and the same community does not regard this mainstream. And i worked on some of those over the years. Not necessarily related to accept the restaurants. I worked on the 1st tars when it was most very popular. I worked on imaging black horse when it was more popular, derby additional wave astrophysics, which is now one of the major frontiers in us are physics, was ridiculed early on. And so im used to that situation, but if i were a young scholar, i would worry about my job prospects and that is definitely a chilling experience to witness the pushback. But senior people have towards thinking outside the box. I think the biggest problem with is that it deters young people from innovating from taking risks. Well, i know that the, your current book i came out just there earlier this year im geared primarily towards the general audience. Its a big hit among lay stargazers like myself. And i think one of the main reason for success is that unlike the santa fe community, most of us actually fascinated by this idea that we may not be alone in, in the universe. And youre actually argue that this whole, this fascination has a distance statistical probability given how many earth systems like our as exists, is that right . Right. In fact, the humans tend to think that there were special unique and privileged. And we are born into this world, like actors put on this stage and we dont know what the plays about, but we can study the universe. We see that the stages huge. Its 10 to the power 26. 00 times bigger than our body. Were suddenly not at the center of it like our estoppel. The ancient greek philosopher used to argue and then moreover, the play has been going on for 13800000000 years. And so we came only at the end we are the play is definitely not about us. So lets try and find out if there are other actors out there. And maybe they had the better idea about the play. And we now know that the bulk of the stars that look like the Sun Hebert planted the size of the earth roughly at the same separation. And if you arrange for similar circumstances, you might as well get similar outcomes like technological civilization of the type that we are. And in fact, most of the stars formed so fierce before the sun. And so if they had technological civilizations around them, they pre beta us and then they were able to send a lot of equipment into space that we can search for just like we sent the voyager, one borgia to new rises, and i call that space archaeology. Now, before we go to the base archaeologist, determine what do you think is the probability of a face to face . So to sol, intelligence to intelligent contact is that likely . I think most likely is that we will find the equipment floating through space that was sent by an advanced civilization. Its the experience will be similar to walking on the beach. Most of the time you see rocks or seashells that were produced naturally, but every now and then you encounter a Plastic Bottle and that gives you an important message even if its not functional. It says that the civilization is out there. And most of the equipment that we will find will not be operational because those civilization so dead by now those that sent it. But then it will give us a very important lesson about the history of things that were like us in the past. And then, you know, i think that we are probably not special unique though. It used to be many more like us in the past. The, just like the number of an on the sidewalk. And nobody paid special attention to each and every and when walking on the street. And thats why nobody cares about us, that we need to to look out and search for them. Now, one of the main contentions of your book is that in 2017, we were actually approached by a large object, an object like this, the size of a Football Field with somewhat a typical patterns of speed and live reflection. And you argue that it may actually be of artificial origin. Tell us about that. Right . In october 2017. The 1st object from outside the solar system was supported near earth by a telescope in hawaii. And it was given the name on more and more, which means the scout in the hawaiian language. At 1st, astronomers assume that it must be a rock of the type that we have seen in the solar system. Either an asteroid, the bare rock or a comment, a rock that is covered with ice, that gets evaporated when it comes close to the sun. The only problem is that when we looked at it, it didnt have any comment or retail. There was no variation of Gas Or Dust around it at the very tight limit. And then if it was tumbling and reflecting sunlight, the amount of light that the reflected changed by a factor of thin and nothing like the very extreme shape. Most likely pancake like flat shape, which is quite unusual for these asteroids or comments that we usually see. And then the exhibited an excess push away from the sun, the decline, the inversely with distance squared. And that cannot be explained by the rocket. The spectrum of operating gases because we havent seen anything any to the last about the 10th of its mass, if you were to be pushed by of operation. So the only explanation that i could think of was reflection of sunlight is pushing it. And for that the object needed to be very thin, sort of like a sale on the boat except being pushed by reflecting light. Its called the light sale. And as it turns out, in September 2020 Last year, there was another object discovered that exhibited an excess pushed from the sun as a result of reflecting sunlight and had no home authoritative. It was discovered by the same telescope, but best rumors realized, oh it is a rocket booster. That was launched the 966. 00 in the land, their mission. And we know that it had very thin wars, and thats why it had a lot of area for each mass and it could have been pushed through reflecting sunlight. We know that he felt efficient because we produced it. The question is produced and were more just to clarify, youre not saying this is sort of a spaceship, passing by because its still just low to be functionally traveling as far as i understood it. Say you believe that this is, this may be some sort of Space Garbage that you know, other civilizations have left behind, is that right . Its most likely space, Trash Or Equipment that is not functional anymore. Or it could be a layer of something bigger that was ripped apart. The point is that nature doesnt make very thin solid objects of the stipend. Thats why i suggested that maybe its artificial. And of course the best way to tell is to take a photograph. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. In my case, a picture is worth 66000 was the number of words in my book, extraterrestrial, i wouldnt need to write this book if we had the photograph and we can get a photograph on a future object that wed be discovered early enough only to approach to us, we can send a spacecraft with a camera that will take a close up photo by intercepting its trajectory. And weve done that with the mission of cyrus rex, but got very close to the asteroid ben, and actually landed on it and took a piece of it. Theres some material that it will bring back to our thing 2023. So just imagine seeing an artificial object that looks like a piece of equipment doesnt look like a rock and we, we land on it. So as we know from living on earth, garbage always comes in huge quantities. How common side things like this come many years we have to, you know, put together a probe like yours you just described. Yeah. So in fact, when i go to the kitchen and i find an and i get alarm because you know, there must be many more and out there. And then you can estimate, given the fact that we surveyed this guy for a few years and found one such object of the size of the Football Field, you can estimate how many objects one would expect per Unit Volume such that we would see one of them every few years within the orbit, the earth around the sun. And it turns out that if they move on random trajectories, if you have objects moving in all directions that without any sense of purpose, then there should be a quadrillion such hope checks right now within the solar system. A lot of them just like and seen a kitchen. If on the other hand, the object had a purpose, to visit the inner region of the solar system and check what is going on there. The habitable zone around the sun. Then you need much fewer objects. And so we dont really know the statistics until we find more of the same. And the worst thing we can do is just say its a rock, its always rocks. Its never artificial, never aliens, therefore, business a seizure, thats the worst thing we can do. The best thing we can do is find more objects of the same and learn more about them. Now you said that they are, they are the 1st thing we can do to sort of discarded as unimportant. And yet this is seems to be the predominant scientific attributes for now. You mentioned before that you faced a lot of pushback from your fellow colleagues. Even stating that as a high process is led along investigating it any further, what do you think is behind this resistance . Well, most scientists, like most people prefer to stay in their Comfort Zone and continue to believe that then everything they find the should line up with their what they already know. In addition, the reason the resistance to discussing in because off unsubstantiated reports on an identified flying objects that do not stand up to the scrutiny of science. There are these stories that are science fiction. And so a lot of scientists worried about their image and therefore keep a distance from any discussion on x, the restoral intelligence with technology. In my mind, it should be part of the mainstream of science because the public is fascinated by instruments. To answer the question, are we the smartest kid on the block . You know, if we close the curtains on the windows and say we dont have neighbors and we are the smartest in the world. It wouldnt change the fact whether we have neighbors or not. It would be just like the philosophers that refused to look through the telescope. Arguing that this sun moves around the earth, they knew that. And its the biggest mistake. One can make us assigned this size, is guided by evidence. Its a dialogue which nature we learn from nature and every now and then there are facts. The do not line up with what we expected. And we should embrace that. We should be excited about this because we can learn something new. Absolutely. Well, dr. Lets take a pause in our own dialogue right now because we have to get very short break, but we will be back in just a few moments. The me are i one of the persian gulf, the wealthiest country as has spend billions of dollars on state of the art stadiums. Well, look at this, the stadium is really taking shape. You can see the bowl and most of the stands now, when we were here a little bit over a year ago, at the same construction site, it was just a foundation and a few metal structures. So it seems that time why this idea to use shipping containers as building blocks has definitely paid off. I mean, theyre easy to assemble and easy to dismantle, just like playing with lego the for the 1st time and World Cup History speedy will be billed from shipping containers and was more, it will be completely dismantled after the tournament. Me me i welcome back to the park with Abby Lope astrophysicists at harvard, off that extra terrestrials the 1st Sign of intelligent lives beyond earth. Now enough to load before the break, you mentioned the push back that you are getting from your fellow colleagues. And it reminds me of all those discussions about the existence of god, which cannot be proven and which cannot be disproved. Thats why its a question of faith and not of science, but these cases actually different because those things can be observed. They can be analyzed, they simply dont bid our current framework and speaking about this framework. How good are we at this point at making the distinction between technological inventions and naturally occurring phenomena, especially as such, huge cosmic distances . Well, as i mentioned, it should be straightforward. If we can get the photograph of an interest at our object that approaches us close up photograph, we definitely tell us the difference between iraq and technological equipment. If we always say it must be rocks and we never take that photograph. We resemble a caveman that is used to playing with rocks and when presented with a Cell Phone. The caveman will declare that the Cell Phone is just the shiny rock because that fits the experience of the caveman. However, i do think that we are sufficiently advance right now in the 21st century to recognize the difference between Equipment And Iraq and. And moreover, there is this potential of finding technology that is representing our future. Just imagine that we get the piece of equipment that is far more sophisticated, the next technologies we currently possess and bring, bring it to earth. It could carry a huge financial benefit there to anyone that develops it. Well, that could be pretty dangerous to now if they, whoever they are, have these amazing technology to reach us and havent made a decision to introduce themselves so far. What does it tell you about who they are . Right, so during the Fun Demik i came up with the idea of social distancing at the cosmic scale. Basically you can imagine in a bunch of location that decides not to get in contact with lesser civilizations because that would be great. Its quality of life. And that doesnt mean that we cannot learn about them because they must be suppose some trash into space. And just like investigative journalists of go through the trash cans of celebrities in hollywood, we can figure out their lifestyle from the trash they throw into space. Now, there is the fermi paradox that asks, where is everybody you know 70 years ago and reconfirming to mistress . This was wondering if there are technological evaluations out there. Why dont we see them and know what most likely they havent a short lifespan is that the college goes to revision because of self inflicted wounds. They dont last for more than a few centuries. Thats a reasonable assumption, or they dont care about us. You know, we are not particularly interesting for them and we as the civilization do not necessarily look very impressive from the outside. We are not particularly intelligent. If you read the morning, lose waste a lot of resources on fighting each other, trying to feel superior relative to each other. Thats not the sign of creation. Dr. If you compare us to and suggested that we may be add an interesting to them as are too many of us. But i have to point out that there are many people among us who take great interest in, in fact, in fact, many great thinkers practice ology. Charles darwin was, one of them depends are going recently has confirmed and numerous and regular sightings of what they call an identified area phenomena. I wonder what do you make of it . Can we add an interesting as we may seem to you, do you fully exclude a possibility of sparking some interest in higher civilizations . No, i dont exclude that. Then i do think that everybody should guide us rather than prejudice. There is a tendency of arguing about the subject rather than paying attention to evidence. Now, the Pentagon Report will release some data, but it will not release all the data that it has. And i think the bottom line is that there are some objects whose nature is not fully understood in that a real and my take on it is that we should then follow on these reports with the same experiment. Basically deploy the best cameras that we have on whitefield telescope, that monitor the sky in the same locations and collect open data and clear up the full, you know, the purpose of science is not to stand to the side as a spectator, but rather clarified the answer to questions that the public curious about and here is one of them. There are 3 possibilities. Either these objects are naturally produced by nature, or there are terrestrial, produced by humans, or there are extra terrestrial. And we could find the answer by getting more data on such objects, sciences about reproducibility of reserves. So we should just do an experiment scientifically with open data, reproduce the finding, if possible, and get a better assessment as to the nature of these objects. Let me ask you about this 2nd opportunity, possibility of objects being off by terrestrial origin. From what i understand, i mean there have been some leaks from that highly anticipated pants are going report the irregular side things of those thin norman that have been recorded since the mid 19 fifties. And they primarily happen around the military or technological facilities. As assisted by training, what do you think the probabilities of other countries be russia, china have somebody else inventing technology that would be on a then to viable to the americans at that point of time, back in the, in the fiftys and on the words . Well, i think its unlikely b, because we have a very good assessment for humans are capable for the limit. So far, technologies are quite well known. And you know, if, if these phenomena, if these objects would behave slightly better than state of the art, the american technology, i would say thats quite likely and possible. But if they behave in ways the far supercede american technology, you would find the signatures of those technologies in other places, for example, in the commercial market, because they would offer a great commercial financial benefits to those who possess them. You would find them in the battlefields. The location of these reports presumably originate from the fact that thats where our most patrolling activities and Monitoring Game by military personnel near these bases. And the question is whether its a phenomenon that hes more global or cursing other geographical locations. And thats why im saying we should have open data. This guy is not classified. There is no ban on looking at the sky, right . So we can have a st. Difficult experiment, not to leave it to the, to be the job of government to figure out the nature of these objects. But rather, scientists, and this will clear up the fog and i think wed give more credence to evidence base knowledge, which is the foundation of science well, but theyre doing that without government will also be quite difficult. First of all, because much of that information is classified and 2nd, as you rode before it would require a major investment to look for evidence of the story. Now, if it think about it, and if we consider how much we spend on the weapons, for example, diverting even a chance of it is based exploration may be enough. And it may actually discrete and Decrease Necessity of bending so much on weapons. Because i would suppose Nothing Underscore is our common humanity more than searching for our cosmic neighbors. What do you think . Right, so 1st i would like to refer to this question in the context of science. You know, were searching for the nature of dark matter in the universe. We dont know what most of the Method Universe is made off. It contains 5 times more mass per Unit Volume. Then all the in our method then that we are made off and we dont know what it is. And weve been investing hundreds of millions of dollars trying to figure out the nature of dark matter looking for different types of particles. And my point is that the nature of dark matter, we have a little impact on the daily lives of people. If we do find evidence for neighbors that are smarter than we are, if we realize that we are not the smartest kid on the block, that will have huge impact on society. It will change our perspective about our lives. Are placing the universe, our aspirations for space, and then therefore we should be invest at least as much as we do in the search for dark matter or the search for Reputation Or Wave sources. Other things that are at the frontier of science right now and not push it to the sidelines because then its a self fulfilling prophecy. If youre not searching for wonderful things, you will never discover them right now. The funding for the search for technology because signatures of other civilizations is more than a 1000 times smaller than the funding in other frontiers of science. And that should not be the case. It should be part of the mainstream, so thats in the context of science. And then you can also bring it to the context of unidentified flying objects. As part of that, the conversation. This is the subject of interest, the public. Lets clear it up. Lets collect same data that is open to everyone that is not a matter of national security, is not around necessarily just military facilities, and its a subject that can be examined scientifically. You mentioned the moment ago that didnt have a discovery like this would have a major impact on human society, but arent you concerned . It could also be utilized in a way to increase our capacity to harm or kill each other as has often happened in the history of technology may be safer and not to look that way. Well, thats a very good question and im an optimist. I do believe in the good part of human nature and i, i am hopeful that we will cooperate. Thats the result of realizing that we are not alone rather than society getting into an turmoil and kill. So thats my hope that we will all realize that we are members of the same team, the human species, and there are others out there. And then it doesnt make sense for us to fight each other, to engage in that rivalry among nations. To try and feel superior relative to other people. All of this is nonsense given the big picture. And then i would hope that the realizing that we are not alone, we give us kick in the right direction. And you know, when my daughters were young, they were at home and they tended to think that theyre at the center of the world and that the smartest. But when we brought them to the kindergarten, theyve got a better perspective. And of course, they would have preferred to stay at home and maintain a illusion of the other mothers. But if we do realize that theyre smarter beings out there, we could learn from them. We could also learn from their mistakes. If they do not preserve the climate on their planet and as a result be perished, then we can do better and avoid a similar fate. While this is a fascinating subject, love, thank you very much for being with us today. All the best with your future endeavors. Thank you so much for husband and thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on a world apart from me in the me. Ah, as a korean Professionals Point is much tougher on some than others. She was hero my by everybody. So why would somebody believe me, i was just a little girl. The price paid to, to, to achieve really was, was how to read in the paper this morning. Usa swimming coach, arrested, allegedly had sex with a 12 year old girls. This happens almost every week. We get calls at the office. I get informed about one of my greatest fears is someones going to start linking all this together. Theres going to be a 60 Minute Documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming. Is that documentary . See it on the, on the moon. The, with the restoring contact and organizing direct dialogue may oppose it, and check his expectations for the upcoming summer with joe biden. The big new stores of the way, but suddenly disagree. A huge global Infrastructure Plan to challenge chinas belts and road initiative. The 1st in person to some extent, the pandemic told to a close in england the french president , getting them slapped in the face, getting up close and personal with a crowd of supposed supporters in the south from ah