Allah can do so because his inner is more so think shevardnadze humor can be a life that in dark times when it seems we have nothing to laugh about at all but how is todays reality transforming what we find funny. They swear that target humor interior and best selling author. And guitar in him are engineer and bestselling writer great to have you with us today what a time to talk about humor. Absolutely its one of those times where people are like is. Is it ok to talk about humor and in fact its one of those things where its definitely right so lets lets to construct this whole thing your self described humor engineer and you write books on how to master humor make jokes funny and sing care how you are in this wonderful hero of 2020 do you see that the demand for humor is actually rising against a backdrop of the complete mass of everything or not really. Know it it absolutely is and i think part of the reason is you know with. You know more social a distance to go on much more things on earth theyre realizing how much humor that they used to have in their life that they are now missing because you no longer you know always conversation with your coworkers you dont have to meet up with friends and even with strangers if you are wearing a mask you dont see this smiles in the last on their faces and so now more than ever isnt it really into how we use humor not just for our own kind of amusement but also to do things like manage to relationships and you know all the additional good its you are youve sat in a. Top that humor has to be positive and inclusive but heres the thing isnt humor supposed to be just funny 1st and foremost sin is that that like the most important thing in humor and that Everything Else writes a day so thats true for comedy comedy is the goal is to make people laugh but we think it is a little bit more broad than comedy it includes things that are funny but it can also be something that is just a little bit different or something that is a little bit silly where the goal is on usenet and our focus at least you know is a humorous nearly my organization is in humor that youre supposed to be funny or interested in humor that is transformation what you are that is encouraging humor that its. All me in some ways and ultimately humor that works out its not just about me people laugh but its about getting some type of better interest salt which more inclusive forms of humor certainly help with no workplace as opposed to more forms of humor so were ok but if we focus a little on comedy and im saying lake stand and you know this late night shows and. Even the you know the comedies that we see coming out if if i have a really good joke lets say which is really nasty at the same time should i never let it sit in light of the day just because in my own we really be positive or inclusive at all. Well you can certainly with your stand up comedian then you let it go right tell that on a comedy stage next intention it dont really make it hold the line a little bit make you laugh you can also do it with friends as a way to create a little bit it can hire a serious or you know they share your similar sense of humor like some groups like emergency 1st responders so Police Officers firefighters except really sometimes tend to have a little bit of a darker sense of humor as a way to manage the kind of difficulties that theyre going through the stuff that they see and deal with every single day which is understandable but if your a leader of an organization or youre in a company or you want to build a city of relationships with people that are going to change a type of humor that usenet where all alternately comes down to is whats your goal with you or. Your engineer so we dont think of humor just as a name for fun but how does it help us to solve challenges either at holme or in the workplace and depending on the challenge if you want to solve it might change the type of humor that you want to use and ellen job goes home and if someone is a take to change a light finance series thats not funny and its my impression that humor has waned having a very hard time lately whenever you want to crack a joke you should really think twice. You know should i say this should i not say these im going to hurt anyone is anyone going to be offended by this why has everybody become so sensitive. Or her or what is to blame. Now its a detonating question and i think you know this year is always involving the humor that was popular and you know fades in staceys what we own by bill if you murder is more slapstick it was more physical days that all the more kind of jokes like clear kind of set jokes of set up and punchline that evolved into more storytelling and authenticity with storytelling and i see i think were just seeing it continue evolution where some of the things that we used to joke about old really were saying well maybe its not actually ok to joke about that maybe that you know what you think of is is something is a light hearted joke is really difficult for someone whos had experience that for a long period of time and so i think its just a cultural change will continue to change will continue all that and part of being in a debt humorist or comedian is adapting to the times and still finding the line and understanding when its appropriate d to cross a line when its not and the workplace its really not appropriate across the line except for a very some specific scenarios but in a comedy club thats a little bit you know different so getting those back to where youre using next year and what you want to achieve with well ive been talking a lot to comedians a lot especially stand up comedians because im writing a book about humor 2020. And i mean humor really if were honest with each other especially in standup comedy with late night shows it gets really funny when making fun of something serious right whether its politics or sometimes in some kind of gas or tragedy how does comedy survive if its become too dangerous to be dangers in your jokes i mean a situation where you cant laugh at religion gender skin color Sexual Orientation what is there left to laugh at. Well i think they completed raising especially in the context of comedy that nothing is off limits i dont even say you cant joke about it because they use it as a gift to be the decider but i think out a joke about it is is changing because you know the fundamental kind of concept youre structure with and specifically instead of a set up and punchline so a set of raising expectations analysts nurse brain and any punch line raise that expectation in some way part of the reason for evolution in comedy is that for many years honestly your set up was maybe aggressive towards this particular group and then the punch line changes but you can see you are going this very well i would say even Dave Chappelle continues to kind of gross that line because of how he does a set of them punch line through that are you know the joke is when you really kind of carson and look at it break it down youre realizing that are he has changed where is he talking about asserts like specific group a lot of times its our it isnt actually next root its societys perspective around it and so becomes how you joke about that particular subject so i completely agree with you that i dont think any subject should be off limits and i still like this whole thing with humor has taken unprecedented scale because if you look at what happened with shirley of bill and then just recently a schoolteacher was beheaded in france for referring to shall have the cartoons which you cant get over the top on purpose i mean no doubt about that i mean i grew up in paris and you know there irreverence in humor would annoy me a lot because im not used to that but at this point like its unclear whether its a cartoonist on our satirists and humor in general that has sort of protected in a full station like this or do we have to set certain boundaries for humor so that it doesnt provoke outrage that weve seen and seen my reaction have. Swop because last year it was like yeah it was like over the top and then this year when im saying continuation of they said to be having even though i dont like that here were i feel like the man who had michael i feel like we should stand up for him or do you know what i mean some having let us know cognitive dissonance inside of me when i write i agree with that radio that that best lines between it to be because you know things like. This idea of freedom of speech or freedom of expression doesnt mean freedom from consequences but at the same time someone making a joke you know in your results should not be them losing their legs and so i think theres probably islands of both and i would say its probably more on the scale of peoples reaction because you know it has a as a communicator you have to decide if someone is offended by something thats data for you kind of take in to mine you may not have made to stand by what you said but understanding why might this have been offensive and is that what i want to do is ok with me so i think the answer is a little bit on both sides and people being willing to take responsibility and recognize that whatever your individual to use are might not be the same as someone elses and where is that kind of Common Ground that we can meet a great difference out to you murk can help us get there and so thats the other understanding is that you know theres a difference again between a set and punchline of a specific thing and others you hear that we might use in depending on the situation which points the most appropriate obvious get to what we want to get too long or like a more general question but outweighs wonder about it lately what is too much for humor exactly i mean here decides to boundaries of what one can joke about and how. Well its as if its a very difficult question to do the interesting thing about comedy is that it is both very simple and very hard and the question of iraq is something funny the answer is make someone laugh and so its funny to one person to me very different than whats funny to another person and so each individual person is kind of deciding that and then what youre noticing in this is a particular challenge and i think hey we can all maybe take us on is cancel art culture where its like some people are then starting to get upset about jokes or things that they never even actually heard or ever experience are even really offended by and suddenly theyre be homes its kind of mob mentality where its like oh everyone is going to jumping on board but theres one person so less like completely like ruin everything that they have into like the i think thats too extreme and its certainly how people respond to it so you had this in the u. S. Where someone was written you know and a writer was fired for it s n l he came out some of his old jokes were actually very culturally appropriate and his reaction wasnt about apology it wasnt about like hey you know i didnt mean to offend as morally but im a comedian this is what im supposed to do and the problem is you know sometimes people use a joke as an excuse to say offensive things and its not really actually a joke and so you know that satisfying lynette balloting its a case by case basis but it is what you as an individual do and i think we all use that hello or should we cry you know a little bit earlier but its those individual decisions that people are may. Going to take a short break right now when were balco continue talking to. Them or engineer and best selling author talking about how humor is transformed this day stay with us. Thank you. It will park it would if he does much good you know. You can go google near. Them were going to. Wind up in the middle of the job than doubled over the. Image of book not ever. Buy a book about one or youll. Get a lot of people if you wanted to. Join me every so st simon short and ill be speaking to give us the world of politics sport im sure ill see you then. Well were back with andrew tara vinge humor engineer bestselling writer were talking about whats happening to humor in 2020 and its really fun its a nominee when i look at the United States because i see all these late night show hosts which i adore and theyre like vibrant smart. Intelligent really funny hilarious guys and for the past year and a half or so i just see how theyre stuck because they really can joke about anything and they think people in america are even more sensitive than anywhere else in the world on the topics that are like you know feminism matters and all of that thats going on like the whole new asked 6 right that is our reality is becoming our reality and so what they were left with is trump if you joke about anything else you get you know youre fired or taken off air and but you can joke about trump because thats ok and that helps the country well its for trump because he has become so popular because of that degree. Why certainly a very common use perspective as well as just the sheer amount of. Wrong has. You know not. Just for us and what people talk about it sunday night constantly like a nice ride for me in the u. S. I didnt think about the president time carrying all that off i go and certainly. You know over the last 40 years there probably went freelance every single day has come up in some shape or form whether thats a news story or eos a comedienne saying a certain day or that you know perspective and so it is interesting that it is creating a lot more awareness and you know just that person being advised i think for me why me and are talking about it is because when everyone else so its kind of an insecurity a challenge i think youre seeing an interesting creative evolution of comedy both through because of subject matter because of things like politics and your technology might be a part of sarah who wears rise misbehave some day and do things a little bit differently right he has gained kind of that lindsey and they were tight and if that was interesting of winning games become more a strain on what you used to write when this is breaking norms not necessarily in a good way it becomes hard to create satire he says the nationals asked him right isnt as extreme as what the reality is and so sarah humor and add to that by just saying im going to change any word im going to pretend like this person is saying Something Else and is going to say it word for word it has a different kind of performance to it and so you are seeing kind of unique case in that that applies right as rating transcend different expectation and rating next and i think thats the evolution that were saying but i completely agree that there is tremendous as you can say ok lets talk about Something Else we is comediennes or commentators or entertainers exaggerate or in health to shape what is what are they saying on and i say i need those people im allowing them to kind of giving them that platform going to be very it alls. I want an elaborate a bit about what ive just sat i was talking recently to frederick back better than the novelist and his last novel is actually about the humor and he told me that the importance of comedy these days can we explain by the side of the politicians cannot really handle the situation well enough. Clowns themselves and its to comedians who are becoming the voice of Public Opinion who are influencing this opinion just as well do you agree. Really i mean there is there is certainly even for the past 1020 years or so people kind of considered comedians as philosophers are they are the people who are standing and inordinate amount of hanum faking about a subject and i mean whats a way to communicate is that people actually listen and i think thats true because it easy this and other places around the world it sure can be a great way to what it hopes speak roots of power where you can take a little bit of the edge off of something thats actually true that you want to say by adding a little bit of the humor component and a lot of truth is said in jest where its like you say a little bit of joke but people are like oh ashley. Why is that why is that what i hate youre also seeing it so youre seeing that in by a couple of individuals but youre also seeing kind of almost this. Is all its use of humor that i dont think that weve always seen through things like mean culture mediated now is arising and its been used by you know people on the left and right he said were going back all it takes Bloomberg Campaign in the United States isnt necessarily were right it was like were going to hire a bunch of white young 20 somethings to create a bunch of means to try to create and get this message out there and so you are seeing this change in terms of how some of that humor is executed but in general comedians yes i think are there great philosophers youre seeing it like you said in the news programs a lot of people arent getting their news necessarily at least younger people arent getting any yet and theyre getting it from ever knowing that early show theyre getting it from these comedians who are going more comedic shows and brainy on in part you know continuing my conversation with bag but theyre here also compare the Current Situation and the role comedians playing are alive today with the orchestra of titanic which continues to play while the ship is sinking. Ship going down as well and since the comedians cannot really stop it from going on there is laughing about it they only way to accept the inevitable. Her or i dont add big laughter laughing about something is a great way to make it so that it doesnt have control over you and it is actually one of the you know disadvantages to strictly how many human humor and some sense is that youre relieved tension and so that can be a great thing when youre very stressed but it can also lead to a lack of. Wind not kind of kept in check and if you think about it even back to the traditional days of being monarchy that kind of thing they intentionally installed in jest your court jester because that was someone who could. Make everyone laugh or leave some of that tension so that they didnt revolt you see the same thing initially the initial reason for karbala and some countries was to say ok a remedy. In crackdown on people for war 11 months of the year or if you this one month of celebration so you get out all of that haitian innings i mean everything that in that moment so that you dont rise to power and so i think thats the disadvantage and so you have to understand that again goes back to. The purpose of our humor not just allowing it to be me and going down with the ship and like a real laugh all this is all to do i believe that he had that next step and thats why we focus on humor is that it doesnt stop at hey you made you laugh and now that youre laughing youre listening and what do we do with your attention it is often to say hey we made you laugh can buy or can we implant kind of the idea of a cd maybe we can all be a little bit better maybe we could all be a little bit more compassionate about each other or you see this also with. Last weeks night in john oliver is that every episode ends with some type of small. You know go if you a