But dont go too far as more great programs get going in moments live from moscow. This is your r. T. International join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business. Im showbusiness. Ill see if hello and welcome to cross talk. Were all things are considered. Im Peter Lavelle now for the post mortem. How have the 2 Major Political parties changed in this election cycle . Can joe biden maintain an already weakened and divided Democratic Coalition . Is there such a thing as trump ism . Did he change the g. O. P. Or did the g. O. P. Change him . To discuss these issues and more, im joined by my guest, nate brown in washington. He is the National Coordinator with the movement for a Peoples Party also in washington. We have arvind balrog. He is a former Libertarian Party president ial candidate, as well as author of the book, pull out men modern life and mutiny. And in montreal, we have lauren chen. She is a you tuber and host of pseudo intellectual. All right, cross up rules in effect, that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciate it. Ok, its going to lauren 1st here. Im just very broadly speaking. How has this election changed the political environment . Because theres so much focus on trump, all of the time that is kind of crowded out, some of the interesting results of disallow action here. The g. O. P. Did it remarkably well, considering all of the predictions of doom and gloom. And then we see that the, the coalition that was behind joe biden, its quite fragile right now. And if you look at the demographics of both voting demographics, a lot of surprises there too. So going to the g. O. P. So what are your major takeaways in this postmortem of this election . Well, i think the 1st thing to note is that, you know, of course the election has not officially been called yet. Electors do not vote until december 14th, just have to put that disclaimer out there. You know, of course press is still calling for biden, but trump does have legal challenges regarding the parties. I think right now both of them are much more divided than i think they ever have been with the democrats. We have course, have the establishment more moderate people like joe biden, even though i hesitate to call him a moderate nowadays. But you also have the more progressive branch of the democrats, people like in his running mate, come on, harris, dont forget she backed medicare for all until it became too controversial to do so. And she kind of has since hopped on board joe bidens plan. But i would hesitate to assume that things would be status quo as usual, with Camilla Harris as part of the administration regarding the g. O. P. What i think we have now is also a fracturing bit of a different type right now, voters who vote for republicans. They are quite, quite heavily in support of donald trump. His Approval Rating has remained high among his base throughout his presidency. But we have, i think, a divide between the establishment politicians and the voters. And we see this very often now on social media, especially where trump voters give, i guess, give hack to the elected republicans who they feel as not holding the line for trump against the democrats. And weve seen people get called out time and time again. People like the mitt romneys of the world and even before he make it in office, jeff flake and things like that. So im hoping in the future republicans will see a purging of i guess the ryan nose from their ranks. But i mean, Going Forward, i think politics are just going to be ugly, or as divisive as ever. And i think regardless of who ends up assuming the presidency, you know, going back to the status quo that perhaps we saw 10 years ago where we could expect at least some bipartisan cooperation. I dont see that happening. Lets go to the no same question to you. The major fault lines that have been exposed in this election because what lauren hasnt, i think, is absolutely spot on. Because i think there are fissures and both parties and because of the outsized personality of donald trump in all of this, i dont think has been given it enough notice. And now we will start noticing it, and it is very, very important. And i dont think it critically books well for either party. Go ahead are if you look at the Democratic Party right now, you see 2 entirely irreconcilable parties. You see a hardcore socialist party and a suburban, moderate party that just have nothing to do with each other. Theyre entirely incompatible, and you can see those risks lines with in the Democratic Party. You can see it with in the democratic electorate of the elected democratic congress. People. On the republican side, youre seeing something a little bit different. On the republican side, youre seeing a rejection of the establishment from supporters and a vast majority of republican supporters have rejected diest ad, which meant people like g. W. Bush wouldnt really have a place in the modern Republican Party. Mitt romney is now a republican outsider. Right now, the Republican Party has kind of completed the cycle that began with the tea party, which is the rejection of the republican establishment. And its exciting to see that now the Republican Party is fighting things that previously had stayed away from bring lawsuits against affirmative action or the most unpopular programs in the country. Actually fighting for the rights of people who had different views from the center. People actually trying to make sure that there is freedom of speech going on and the desperation on the left against that both and the political sphere and the media sphere is showing just how much things have changed. You know, how much is this . The personality of trump claimed it is because the trends that weve, we have heard from are been learnt are. Theyre very, very real. And if youve been following politics, youve been able to see it. But the outside nature sized nature of donald trump was kind of, it kept this people away from focusing on that and i think now theyre going to have to do it. I mean, also, if it really, i think its stake in the Republican Party is the outsized influence of libertarians because we, the Republican Party remarkably is turning into a pay and work ethic working class party, which i never would have thought ahead. Nick, that is remarkable. And it is the fact that including himself is in every way, shape and form creation. The Democratic Party is this kind of more neo fascist type figure, as dr. Cornel west describes and but he was propped up by the Democratic Party as that by piper candidate by the d. N. C. In that fashion. And so to run as a candidate would be so fence if that it would of course, were to help clinton to victory. He was also, of course, only capable of winning because barack obama ran on progressive promises such as getting money out of politics, a Single Payer Health care system, expanding labor rights, tackling the climate crisis, abandoned. All its, those honestly is the moment that he was elected and they were serving wall street and not really coming up to the banks after the 2008 great recession. And so it was because of those things. 8 years of neoliberalism under obama devastated working people, 5000000 people kicked out of their homes that the ground was seeded for trump in the 1st place for him to rise. So there was a very interesting and i would appreciate if you would use terms like neo fascist, because it be used terms like that. You can apply it to all kinds of parties and individuals. Its not the best term to be throwing around right now. A warrant, i mean, one of the things i find fascinating is that, you know, joe biden, respective, if you think of his politics, hes a, hes rather weak, you know, and i think we have, have sympathy for the elderly and all that. But it is, we have been when he was inaugurated in january with his, with the, the ever present threat to of donald trump out of the picture at least formally has he served his purpose for the Democratic Party. Because, you know, when the progressives are going to start, cannot get on the door and they said, you know, he kept saying, wait until the election, wait till the election. I think thats when or are you going to have a lot of pressure on his administration. Do and start paying back some favors. What do you well, i think regarding abidance, mental fortitude with to be able to fulfill the role of presidency. I dont think its any secret that if he does get sworn in, what were essentially going to be seeing is the political equivalent of weekend at bernies. You know, its going to be, come all the harris pulling the strings. I our, his cabinet. I dont think theres many more well, there are a financially or michelle obama. Some people have even said, but i think for the democrats, what people need to keep in mind right now is that, you know, a lot of, and weve already discussed a lot of what is unifying them, is not necessarily any singular vision. Its more an opposition to tromp and what the republicans are offering, looking for. If biden does assume the presidency, we still have to remember that, you know, the democrat majority in the house has been whittled down and its looking like, you know, its legal challenge is still withstanding. The republicans will keep the senate and were also seeing a newly conservative supreme court. So i think the people who are worried or perhaps even hopeful that 2021, new progressive era need to check their expectations because there are still those checks and balances. And of course, i guess row blocks to, even if someone like Molly Harrison sanders wants to push something akin to the new green deal, for example through there are a lot of barriers in front of that. And i think if the democrats want to keep their base together, theyre going to need to keep pushing the specter of trump, even if hes no longer around. Already seen this with a c. Saying, even if trumps not here we need to remember a lot of his supporters. A lot of his i think conspiratory are enablers, still are, you know, i mean, i think thats absolutely right because, and i think this is one of the by democrats, if i can say that are really tell me, because i dont think they want to have a reckoning with the progressive wing of their party, i think theyre terrified of them because you know, everything was present as you know. All we have to do is get across the line, but its kind of like, you know, Robert Redford in the candidate. I date myself from a film in the 1970 s. , but the end of the film was he wins and then he says, what do we do now . What do the democrats do now . Because they got slaughtered in the house of representatives. I mean, and there are conservative democrats that actually can go with the republican minority here, but its not a rosy picture for them. No, its actually not a rosy picture because theyve had an xterm will force uniting them. And even though democrats it disagreed, i mean, you have suburban democrats who are by and large, not hard core socialists who so strong. They disagree with the center supporters. That disagreement hasnt gone anywhere. Its still there. But is there no longer unified by this extra real threat . So in order for the democrats to maintain any kind of unity, theyre going to have to hope that trump keeps things alive. Plans running 2024 maintains a specter otherwise theres literally nothing uniting the party. There is no commonality between people who are going to need. Let me jump in here without being an excuse for the Biden Harris Harris biden administration. Not to do anything because they will be an excuse in my mind, of course, because as long as they can keep the attention on. Heres, heres a look at the democratic, the Democratic Administration right now is going to gain more from keeping their base agitated. Then from giving their base any of the things that they actually want. Right now its become even more complex because not clear what their base leg because half of their base doesnt want what the other half their base office jump in. But real quick before we go to the break. Yeah, if i could, i would disagree with that last point. I think its actually very clear what the Democratic Base wants when you look at polls, its very clear what americans want. You see 88 percent of democrats in favor of medicare for all single payer system. Box news, exit poll, 72 percent of americans in favor of medicare for all thats this election. And that goes down the line of progressive issues. The kind of Bernie Sanders ran on getting money out of politics. Well, now im not going to, were going to go to what short break and after that show people continue work post mortem of the election. Stay with r. T. Was a pandemic . No, certainly no borders and islam to nationalities has emerged. We told the truth be, we dont look like seeing the whole world needs to be judged as coming. Very close is listening to we can do better, we should know better. Everyone is contributing each of our own way, but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. The challenges created with the response has been so many good people are helping us. It makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. Welcome back to cross up where all things are considered. Im peter, remind you, were discussing the postmortem of the election. Ok, lets go back to lauren. I remember during the campaign, but probably the only memorable thing that joe biden said, and he said to wall street, actually is that nothing will fundamentally change. You know, that kind of troubling on so many levels. Because that means if we could interpret nothing will fundamentally change meaning, go back to 2016, then this shows is my own my own pick view of not understanding why trump won in the 1st place. I mean, again, i think these people dont seem to be very thoughtful about the, the, the impact of their words because there was something going on in 2016 and it shattered the foundations of establishment poet takes. I think its going to ignore the last 4 years, go ahead. I think theyre absolutely going to try to and for biden, a lot of what he was running on. What is this idea of a, sorry, at their risk . Oh, definitely. And i think a lot of what biden has been running on was an appeal to normalcy. The idea that trump ushered in this crazy era of politics with his division and you know, all of this like the neo fascism and things like that. So biden, i think his main goal throughout his campaign was to say, hey, remember how things were back in the day. We can get back to that. And i think youre right in that. Its not a very listed thing and its definitely not what i think most voters want. If we look at businesses as well, and its strange that he would try to champion that to wall street, considering his tax plan actually, and involves raising corporate taxes. And i think, considering the socialists in his party, i mean south of out socialist. I dont mean that as a slur. In any sense. The idea that he has the control over the democrats to, you know, try to stop these more further left aspects of his party. I dont, i dont think he fully understands how strongly convicted people like the a c. And the Bernie Sanders of the Democratic Party. Really are so never mind even like i mentioned Camilla Harris shes, shes a lot more progressive than he it is. So i mean i am Going Forward will. Will this return to normalcy actually happened . I dont think so. For many, many reasons that i think for some biden daughter is maybe suburban democrats. Thats what they are at least hoping for. Well, i mean, i mean im, im really sick and tired of people talking about the term. Oh ok. I mean, if you look at the financial crisis of 2008, you know, how many people suffer grossly in a bronco bomb . And his administration did virtually nothing except her help. The super rich. And then we have this economic downturn because of the pandemic here. And ive been a plague on both parties for not doing things for outreach people. Ok, i mean, thats me. Nothing will fundamentally change because i dont think the political establishment, particularly the democrats, because they were in power at the time. And they, they refused to understand the impact of what the economic turndown impact on people and how it impacted their, their, their own politics. Ok. And you know, trade, you know, that went into 2016 was a buddhist, a non issue. It was a very big issue for a lot of people here and for good reason here. So again, this head are, what you saw in the primary abut portion of the election is the rejection of the democrats who are actually interested in changing anything. You had democrats who spoke out against the war on drugs which has become probably the one of the most unpopular political actions, one of the most unpopular posi thats left in america right now. You had democrats who oppose involvement in foreign wars. People i told the gabbert who were the only people running who really democrats, who opposed foreign wars and now your connector air. Jamie is the only democrat that knew what she was talking about on top of it. Im sorry to interrupt. You dont have a fair point. And so what we see over there is the, these positions that the vast majority of American People want to change. And the rejection of that desire to change in the Democratic Party, you see essentially a coronation of joe biden and come all harris. These are both people, one who is essentially the architect of the drug war and the other, who is a major prosecutor in the drug war. So when you see the democratic establishment saying, were going to pick these 2 guys, not any of the people who are actually trying to change anything. Youre saying that theyre their goal is to try to present themselves as the status quo party, the safe party, the normalcy part of the anti trump party. And the thing is, once theyre in that position, there are going to be people that theyre going to need to answer to