Its good to talk to you. Thank you very much for your time. Youre welcome. Its a nice to be here. Well, he said recently that whatever are the final results of the u. S. , national, theyve, your law abiding will refute the asian or policies because, you know, remains weak rockley in crowds. And i am with you dont know why that ad council just that there was an almost full Bipartisan Commission or policies. Because if you look at joe bidens least promise is especially in the domestic they really look like restyled paste role charms label. And worst of what a nickel class b. Shaking, international trade. What share for all dairy carrots challenged the democrats really rejected the substance of his policies. Yet they would like to do. I think if youll say its see a real shift. I mean, the problem is donald trump was of course and still is that hes not a real democrat if keely authoritarian tendencies. We see that in his refusal to leave the white collar to concede the election to joe biden, though its pretty clear that yes, lost the election. Even republican senator, now isnt there, at least i Learned Behavior asking you know about, oh yeah. Absent of policy. Yeah, exactly. And so joe biden, bill has announced he will convene a summit for democracy, so he wants to rally americans and us round the table again to really make them more coherent to improve the relationship, particularly c. Or p. And ls suno. And the relations was in nato. Relations was in the e. U. Back if straight he had a very hostile, almost relationship to international folks. So biden will have a totally different policy value of the less and above all, he seems to realize that the United States is a lot stronger to get its allies rather than to go it alone. And under. And the trump, we saw a more unilateral america going to do on policy. And i think that will change fundamentally in one of your recent analysis of times. Foreign policy you single out, its 3 primary strands, disengaging the u. S. From local politics, does deigning allies, you just retreated. That point right now and defriended are pratik later. Hes now, naturally as a russian has and perhaps act in your view as a shield for one set arc radek leader. I want to ask you specifically, what does it mean befriending autocratic leaders . Well, we have very disconcerting illnesses under trumps that for example, trump became very close to Saudi Arabian crown prince. And you know that the crown, this was at least implicated in the murder of so generalists kushal b. And by everybody that trump did not say a word about it. Instead of that he continued having very good relations. A lot of personal relations with members of this administration at that same also, he did not criticize what was going on in your oprah goddy hungry and poland, and the presently, or to credit policies of these 2 countries. Cus, you know, its condemned. It is trying to do something about it. Trump has kept quiet though, saying that you would see that and that i read that proposal. R. C. Seemed to be equating public statements rapturing to policy and has studied and Foreign Policy in the United States and how it started as im sure you teach your students, that words are not the same as actions. Absolutely. But like statements dont make up a policy, in fact, and those that you will be diametrically opposed to one another. So again, lets not look at public statements. I read there is a major difference in style in persona and character, but there is a personal things i am asking you about the substantive change in the course of the United States. And again, in full is the terms because at least in the liberal circles, they dont love using this befriending autocratic leaders cliche. But what does it mean in adelaide equal terms . Theyve got all of that policy in the means of that policy and the possible outcomes of that policy in that hes been, are obviously, you know, for example, as i mentioned, the summit off democracy, of course, people where the wind is growing in the United States. And he builds, if youre in her, i want to sell your bill supports the e. U. Regarding the policy towards poland in hungary, while trump has indirectly, but big keeping quiet by expressing sympathies as expressed support for these people. And that of course in boulder. And you dont, you wont see that still in bold meant and of having said that, but by the bill of course, all you realize the strategic relationship, the United States has to sortie arabia. You will not stroll in saudi arabia into an enemy, and no one would expect that. On the other hand, youve not let the crown prince get away with these sort of calls. Can i ask you something about these women . Why is prison that it was in office together with president obama . They tell him that allowed saudi arabia to launch one of the most murderous, bloodiest wars there is, has still continuing right now. I mean, i understand that there is a certain air resonance, about the absolute horrific nature of that one killing. But under biden and obama, hundreds of thousands of such killings have been taking place. Can you really put down this . So your ministry of their coverage of the wall is a human conducted for saudi arabia and of those have you stopped to do it while obama was in power . And its certainly this one. Its a black, the Obama Administration, the only one. I dont know, not saying that thats one of my points that they didnt do anything about it, but biden was, of course, vice president. He did have an influence obama could if i was in the end he did wasnt the guy would to seduce issues. That clearly was a president that is different now. And of course also in the last few years or so, you merican statements have looked for what is going on in that part of the world. How to start troy has become how terrible the human cost has been. So i would expect to reverse that course and not too soon for saudi arabia or yes said so, and of course us, no god, these are critics issues and they say things during combat. Its therefore up when these statements, but i would expect a bite to do so. It clearly is more in favor of human rights, for example, in general. Then for example, President Trump, who never even use a term of human rights. Well, you didnt hear my next question, and i think its partially time that ties meant that my questions about your choice of vocabulary that is befriending the autocratic leader, is because its true that donald trump had a more pragmatic, last moralistic approach to Foreign Policy. And i think its high time where the will to debate how we define morality in international relations. What is good and what is bad . What are the limits . The legitimate uses of military power, so that we dont see carnage like we saw in yemen in libya, in iraq, all of which were born out of good moralistic intentions. Repeat again. And my question to you is dont you think that by using east liberal catchphrase is befriending, which is essentially an attack by association. Youre out in a, we kind of flashing the need for the world to have that conversation. And if you, if you look around the world is really crying out for it because all the major problems we have right now, refugees, internally displaced and down, makes immigration, the riser for a populace, and they can all be tied to the war. Its abandoned louis. I know, and i think, i think you can agree that human rights are something to do was killing people and killing people is always a bad idea. And that applies to all countries be. Its the United States, or russia, or china, or other great out, you know, gay or getting involved or stopping was pushing was annexing. Countries that are trying to develop incursions and countries is a bad sink. And biden is a case here for him. And yours in proportion, right, actually declined considerably because i feel the only reason to russians are, as im always there really a lot have now the signal light was low there, you cannot compare Something Like that. Do you look, lets say an operation and leave the average again, is the same matter of analysis. You cant compare, compare the killing of to shaw gets you the bloody war in vietnam that the Obama Administration has oversaw. So the question is, who is really moral and these in order . I mean, so we are abs, not just gilchrist, show you that of course, very active in the game. And in other conflicts around the world or not, or didnt you now do a final round on the ministry stand. Yeah, we might get the money horse and United States needs to do something about that. And biden has that he would do so well. Belief in whether he will follow up, we dont know, costs you will not be a perfect president. He will not fulfill all of our human rights expectations. And their strategic considerations also, all considerations that any president , any pretty sure s. To take into rica. However, President Trump was a very ruthless politician who only looked at strategic. Its just, he did not consider human rights at all. And i think this will change. Definitely, that doesnt mean that the United States now will pursue a policy that is exclusively oriented along human rights. Like this might be nice, this might be a perfect scenario, is unlikely to have professor lars eller as for all his recklessness. Donald trump has launched a single war stuff. Sometimes. I mean, when you can be a cunt pierre, you know how many human lives lost out of concern for human rights. Sometimes you may think that perhaps its safer for the world for that american, since you put that aside, but really were defendo for the vote. Im not defending in im actually, im not buying into this american habit of looking at that parents. As i think this is, theres a strong strand in the russian Foreign Policy of actually looking at the results, not what they call you, but what they do at the end of the day. And whether one says, because if you come to my country and kill my child out of good intentions, i dont care what your intentions were. I can i care about my, my life sunbeam laws that are if you have a brief look at it on the drums policies and we havent launched this in the war. Thats the arizona drill. I dont disagree said of course he hasnt, but still the world is a no mess. You know, we have relations with russia which have become better. We have relations with china, very tense, very constituents, yes, relations. Because iran, its a very conceptual, even last week, a few days ago, dollars rent a pound, they consider bombing iran. You have the transatlantic alliance, which are good for interests in a mask that all happened under the trump. This, these are not good developments. I drunk to that, that he did not launch a major wall. Thats another minor thing because there is a huge difference between what our ports, which here was waging and the real war the claims lives. Anyway, professor larson, we have to take a very short break right now. Were going to go back to the spirited conversation a few moments in the new gold rush is underway and gonna sell thousands of ill equipped work. Goes off, flocking to the gold fields, hoping to strike it. Rich as children are torn between gold was very poor. I thought i was doing my best to get back to school, which side will have the strongest appeal. Welcome back to worlds apart their ploughs. Florist professor at the university of North Carolina at chapel hill professor, just before the break, we were discussing the renewed commitment of the United States to human rights and democracy. And you, joe biden, spread it out when at and mentioned that he was one of the very few people within the Obama Administration who was against the whole libya endeavor. And he actually in a way, repurpose trumps all the rhetoric for and in the endless wars in bidens terms, its the for our worse which have cost the United States untold blood. Tragic that you forgot to mention though, that many of those wars were either launched directly or indirectly approved by the United States. But anyway, do you think the Biden Administration will be ready for some kind of like, why and alice is of how this American Leadership is supposed to be. If then reinstituted on to there was because as im sure you wouldnt remember me there, well in 2021 is very different from the world even in 2016. You know, most american administrations spent that come into office. They consider all their Foreign Policy relations, or as a world that is usually an exercise every administration dust. And im sure joe biden ministration bill do that as well. What youll see, and that is perhaps the major difference of the trumpet ministration is a more predictable and more reliable, Foreign Policy, elyse and photos. Know what to expect from the white house policy. It wont change every 2 days. So Something Like that bill actually, i think also be predicted by those countries who comes and sells a soso of america, including perhaps russia and china and saudi arabia who will be in the middle. You know, it will not be regarded as a foe. It will not be regarded as a close friend for example. So we knew we can expect a new approach. And i think that maybe a new approach would try it, sour relations, you know, goes away from that heated every day media circus, a tree soul, and a president , trump, in the end, as a president by bill not to be a perfect president. No president can be evil, have strategic considerations to consider from his point of view, from an American Point of view. We juma, priest, china, russia, all other countries to some extent. But i think they will also, he will also make an attempt, and that is probably what us learn in over 50 years. And honestly, if that isnt a good idea to find call in ground was countries you may not have sabet relationship is talking about russia, the renewal of the human stocks treaty, i think would be a great stuff for having Something Like a reset with russia, interest, china theyll sell other considerations like cooperation on Climate Change cooperation, maybe on of gunnison on the middle east so that the areas you can find where countries who are not necessarily friendly was each other can cooperate for a later cant do not all circumstances you can find that unless you are every bit as german idlewild and meet your already speak from the statements of the, by the inefficient that you know, a lot of very abstract language about human rights and democracy. And there are lots and lots of practical issues in the walls that i want all the names and level of wyomings migration. Robert mind what charity or that dumps at all about the american use of democracy. But the operation on those issues get more active by one sides ideologic wash actory. Do you think the Biden Administration are up for this out . Youre engaged those countries. Now, glens all respect, especially when it, sooner than one base that over the last 20 years about russia, about exams, i dont know how they can do that. Serious. I mean, that goes both ways. No politicians tend to say a lot about each other. And when that, then youre not marrying that enemy at, is that right . The girl at sonic, they dont talk in a similar way. And of course, you know, byron is well known for having countless set to have bloody may have to do that. He looked into his soul and theyre looking to his eyes and didnt find a soul. That is, im sure, a room, i can smell it going. Its already being dry here. Let me just remind our viewers that elsa came was great, you 1000 allowed that counts as against running for president. Again, speaking about interference in expenses electoral navy, your men have indeed a very long history and very much trouble is. I mean, you cant cross talk about that into funes in each of those countries. And each of us domestic policy, russian descent from nation come paints 2016228 kind of way and have been concerned. But i dont want to go into that. What i dont want to say is replications actually meet privately in a room or at a summit. Then election campaigns off to rooms full of the media rigid. They also have to take into consideration for that too messy or you know, its on both sides. They usually say not the remarks, all unpleasant red mosque, they usually go quickly out of the window and i would be very surprised if clinton and joe biden didnt have a good conversation. The 3 of that say im pleasant, right, to rape. And if they wouldnt try to find common ground, like for example, extending the new start treaty. And that could be the basis of perhaps, you know, a reset. But for reset, as the saying goes, it needs 2 to tango, all the americans are left to give something. But the russians are going to have to give something at a concessions. And you know, that would be nice if Something Like that happened a professional, or as i have no doubt in my mind that the russians have long been writing for to have it all out. But i have grave doubts that the Biden Administration is people of that, especially given article you can actually get more and how can you post based on it of democracies on why should i reach your commitment to you . America is that while democracy and human rights are one camp and whole region and dictator app and if you were a journalist and deal bit here. On the other hand, we know that all politicians, especially on their liberal living at rates, but not cyril might well insolvent, and it may save their boat under grievous that it is quite possible to try to attempt to have a reset with dictators and the world autocrats and the world be the cold boot to know she is shipping off to press even with the most korean leader, without accepting all of their policies, all the methods that is excellent to the skillfulness of to promise and politics that you try to fit to really coal to create the areas you can agree on and can decide the areas you define. And i