Through the wall dr kings a stalwart side winning an amazing 123 caps over 13 years with if youre mighty she joins alex to deflate on the significance of a black woman leading that Scotland Team. Film and amazing scotland could be 123 cops over the 15 year period and you saw the Scotland Team the scottish womens team to the system from just having a full of professional players like yourself to a very powerful squad in the worlds top 20 as is not a how satisfying was it to see the development of the side now definitely its all about growth over the years and from what i can mend those mean julie flee in there as they were the only ones playing professionally and the thing with all this laced up movida and that continued that light cushion and to get a womans funds and push an intermission into intimate and chain more to invest more than in the fall down and i think now you can see the fruition of that shellac has got the benefit of nearly everybody in the squad being professional and the course we can all get better as a nation the more that we change them all that in professional vitamins that man say no and clubs like that going to propel the National Team forward and has done that so now also goes future generations thanks aspire to because now you can go one can play pool if you only have been an emetic to the grew up and kumble nolde scotland for there for you could have played for the United States support may have to choose scotland but then it goes the United States of a pretty good site now i mean there were lot and i was going to an account with them a week before and i just was next and so me to going to play for the National Team yeah was blown the medical but thats about a dont feel a manic in any way some see as old you know going on come to know then just all matter its all my skill in baseball ish a fellow more than a fellow american so just because i was born there was no attachment theres no motional attachment for me at all it was just all about feel it pay playing for scotland represent them and its definitely one that never dreamt my decision though that you cant just go just 150 years off the on who was and became the 1st black International Football and. Led to scotland side way back in 881 to a memorable 61 triumph over england to the oval what do you think of that story of under what. The efforts of no being made to bring that figure to the the centrality of scottish football life on me like i had no idea of a grown up in scotland whats 3 years old playing for the Scotland Team for 13 years been n n at hampden and things of that and i cant even say that i knew the story and you know because again its like one that came before you know next door to hank is a point to cattle bomb and that went over my head not only brought to my attention i think as of last week so as of last week you know that the story ive got to know that little bit more the thing thats incredible in the fact that 130 years ago but were only finally talking about it no its all the same being in the dark for way too long im glad though that you know like more tenses because it was a huge achievement in the money on the 2nd tenure that go on in the continue to talk and that you know recognise and that historic achievement in what he did and you know most of the result and everything so that in the incredible story that he said be you know more recognition thats now on the to be given. As a girl growing up in cumbernauld to push for International Audiences a new tone just in the scopes of of glasgow the jew as you were playing football did you experience any of it racism. Or when you became a professional player of the jew experience one off the pitch so grants cumbernauld not too much a little bit and i think because thames im a family much my brothers you know because they were like older people knew them so then you go that played football and i was like sesto so that helped me because everybody canadas coming on like you said its a small times Everybody Knows and back then not a lot of getting was actually played football. So that help me but then when i go its maybe somewhere else you know people just stand it you know call you the usual names and things of that and just laid them let it really let it get to me almost like a challenge to scotland you know member going to countries like. Russia good and things of that and again just comments like that but nothing my overlay over a bit and not light hair and this light youd see in the mens game just because i think the audience no female game was a lot smaller so you dont have the day you know microscopes like you know like my mail came to light just because the clothes were smaller but you get little besson well betsy and theyre manly and drawn and then like say cumbernauld because its small town and everybody can and everybody if you have a role model for young scottish going for women playing football for black women playing football. People conscious of how important it is to see players like yourself so successful. And so im a lawyer so the fellow back and you know when people ask me my role models its like you always look to the mens game because thats what who you see on t. V. And just compare them but i think its important for females to have like role models you know layer female felt like them so they can relate to see their struggles and see how they came through and limb from limb their story in my how they star and how they grew up and how they came through that theyll see so its definitely intell and i take that seriously as well so when you nothing thames of like getting back in to go into schools and speaking to schools and speaking to get and coaching you know my ghettos over here im so conscience you know i know what theyre going through what theyre you know what lies ahead so its about china help them navigate through that focal in the john them what theyve got to whats ahead so definitely something that not take seriously in my responsibility seriously and just glad if my story can help anybody in touch anybody then im happy with that idea of a message for scotland a new sort of way to field and black History Month again is just like you know speaking up you know maybe when sayings that happened to me when i was younger and tantalize that would say anything but i think its so important you know this day and age especially that you know if you go and see you know you stand up you speak up museum voice and its about helping people to educate people and for them to learn because in the day were all human beings and no matter skin color you know we all want to want the same things in life and its about lennon to you know about each other if you and i kick the 1st black woman cop to the scotland thank you so much for joining me on the alex on the chill. Thank you very much and thanks happened and so from the top to move to scotland womens Football Team to an england great when i interviewed john bombs he has some really interesting things to say about the why do issues of racism in society. Must be difficult to be a racist when you have your own team stop playing black is it not you have to look at the reality of racism in football whereby i was racially abused by little and someplace often and im the exact same person i came to difficult and theyve been racially abused me so i you know football particularly you know up in scotland you know how passionate they are regardless whether youre a racist or not if a player has experience up in bosco any place arranges if you score goals or the bill of you so but what i do know is that had i not been a good player and black players who go to big clubs and do well of course even if there are unconsciously or consciously racist people they dont racially abused but are they bad players and they play for the same clubs or job as going to liverpool terrell a player ive got racist abuse i know that 100 percent because its not personal its about the perception they have of of the group that you belong to and theyre worth in a very same way as the perception we have a womens worth and gay people who are so i was in on it on any illusion that they looked to me because you know im john bond and they love black people because they love me. Because i see alex the arc of the black and its a play about race would be 5 its advanced and you played well and its like every camel that they want to race that piece so i look at racism in football and race and its actually 2 different ways the reality of race is a psychic just much more hot hitting much more all encompassing and much more serious than it is in football but it all boils down to the fact that the perception we have of your works and for the transactional benefits if you do well for them they will forgive you anything i love you but that doesnt mean theyre not unconsciously racist so little for as you love me i say of course you are racially biased not towards me because you love me but whats the average black person in the street or the average woman and thats what we have to change. And how much progress has been made in recent years lets look at football 1st and how much is still to do to racist attitudes well the progress made in football to 2 aspects of football 1st of all the game. The sport the 1000. 00 it match and then that institution which is from the hierarchy going to be from the management going to be administrators now all the playing course pect if it made huge strides in fact of black players who are disproportionately represented in football because you have more than 20 percent black players and less than 10 percent black people in the country and in terms of players not be paid the same amount of money when a player back there takes a shot the goal posts are moved there no medical small in life a black bet on the black person trying to get a job or trying to get employment up in housing or access to social care the goal posts are moved for that the goal cause i move the football as yes with me every now and again in a minute on a saturday or if you go to monk bowl gary you will get racist abuse but in terms of the representation of black people in for all this to put forth that theyre completely equal now from a management perspective thats different than oh bad managers dont like administrator has no bad people nationals of football has to know that people are nationals of government and all the and all the industries anyway so white should football be any different but why that it is because sports not just football but sports recognize the transactional benefit of having a black ashley from Jackie Robinson playing baseball to muhammad ali boxing for america in the olympics they recognize and that doesnt mean theyre not racially biased they recognize the transactional benefit of having a black sportsman which will give them gold medals give them money because actually rob is going to hit a home run now thats obvious you say bolt is going to beat anybody 100 meters mike tyson is going to knock you out however what is the transactional benefit of having a black say into intelligent man who can be a football manager now to change the perception of his worth nothings going to change. Coming up after the break alex is joined by the editor of black History Month 2020 kathryn ross joined us today. In the 1920 s. And thirtys several 100 africanamericans moved to the soviet union and many of their descendants still live in russia. Looking at the risk of you know nobody but us though it was tough to get sick with the cyclone things on their way to set their child on the dock and. Back home but i can merican suffered from racism and a complete lack of prospects. Of the deal and i would be a loser and show them one by else a store or by doing. So they decided to leave everything behind and start a new life in a country about which they knew almost nothing at all some of the. Earlier 2 through during the night you found great crowds. Moving towards you youre going to go you. Know almost a 100 years later history is repeating itself my great grandfather george time went to russia. Probably the worst time to go anywhere why not me. Why dont i come here. To. Welcome back by christie month has been celebrated in the u. K. Every october for more than 30 years despite this years necessity of holding all the events on line they have achieved unprecedented publicist a part of the surge in support against racism in the wake obviously of george floyd in minneapolis alex is joined by 2020 editor of black History Month catherine north professor of search. Catherine welcome to the alex salmon show hello thank you very much for having me on youve described this month black History Month this year as the as the biggest and best ever been to be in a huge number of events this year yes a lot of them on line though of necessity so thats been quite different 1st saw weve missed out on the carnival as well mean big crowds in the streets and moving around and weve missed out on you know just doing generally events where wed all get together to watch films and things that are about caribbean history or black history generally err if miss the closeness of it and how would you respond to people who say well look you know every month should be a black History Month shouldnt special a fictional just one single month from the year do you think that the sort of events of seen in the coverage that was seen has justified the idea of a specific month for black history no im really grateful and im old enough to remember when it was history week and then it grew into a History Month now were finding that a month is not long enough simply because theres so many events sun so yeah every month it should be a pakistani mountain and everybody can get to experience all the good things that are on you know from drummers films and just social meta to be able to talk about our history and heritage and i just said obviously the vents of forster on line in the main for the History Month this year do you have a highlight last far to build something unexpected that tom didnt a grandstand success salvi you point to which or which has surprised even yourself terms of how effective it was. Yes well we bid on brain stream t. V. So that was good but the icing on the cake was so we had to do interview for parliament. For their tours of history and heritage thats there so we took part in that and that was really good theres so much actually in the building in the house of commons in the house of lords that tell our story that i need to hire out there so that people will do more of those tours and visits in and and then also people will know that weve been here for a very long time and we have the evidence there and we have done a lot thats the point of my museum is to say we have made positive contributions to the k. And have been doing man since 1600. Does it assist in your view that the selfesteem of of young white kids in particular to knaw the influence and contribution that figures in history of made that perhaps has been written note of of conventional history well i think that History Month also is for everyone except for white people and they need to know the caps in their history and to know that we have been here 1st on this really just said that we have and the things that we have done but yet black children especially need to know that because when theyre criticised and have negative things said about them they can point to named individuals and say but look what they did and they can also feel good that if somebody could have achieved that in the times of slavery or just post slavery then these young people of today will be able to make their mark to you as editor of the black History Month for 2020 when you have been visiting this Years Program you boast of. Consider of the the balance on the one hand of celebrating the chief mints or blight figures from history and on the other hand prettier context to some of the more unsavory parts of history how did you reconcile that balance as you plan on the sheer celebration but as in all things i do they are child to point out the positive and some of the negative so the 1st thing that hits us was the covert and for that i was pleased to report that we were on the frontline and doing great things and we were one of those heroes it was celebrated in the National Press and whatever but then i had to point out that. Because we havent had good accommodation because of the low paid jobs we had you know we we suffered disproportionately so after he sent it all that but then i said and so what are we going to do Going Forward so ive always left readers with something to think about how theyll change a situation improve or enhance whichever aspect theyre going to take away from it everyone talks about the new normal well in the new no more i dont want to go back to being on the margins in the new normal i want to be able to feel more power and less of this powerlessness that i have so im hoping that our black people are feeling proud and. Regenerated but im hopin others who are responsible for policy and legislation and so on take notice enough is enough weve waited 400 years and it cannot continue and as they can see there are so many of us that are well talented have the experience that we can make a difference to our country its ours to. Editor of black History Month 2025 you so much for joining me on the Alexander Joe thank you very. Oh delighted to be joined from his home in pelican near edinburgh by professors of Geoffrey Palmer geoff welcome back to the alex salmon show oh im delighted to be back and if you think the key audience for black History Month is that for young white kids to understand some of the great figures who for hadnt received acknowledgement that should have been the past on or is it for the white population to come to terms with the fact that black people have made such an important contribution to history i think you know. British history or Scottish History or welsh history or even irish history cannot be discussed without black. Involvement and its just because i think our history and. For whatever reason i think you know ive been very strong about this i think for selfserving reasons if t