As leaders. Is it realistic to think that this gap between the ideal and the real realistic can be actually bridged i hope so otherwise why they do what they do or do something remember you are right. You know you dont need to be creative narcissist well unfortunately too many leaders are really are from the. Group its very to. Their nice terms you support your millage a sense of humanity and to see older stage no longer theyve been there. So it is. Actually a very Interesting Times to the me because it focuses in a way its the largest social experiment ever done and i have no. Now that number sanaa issue Condition One is that people become more reflective and say what kind of role do we need i mean at the moment. You know i look at the world and i didnt wonder many years ago before you were born and i have at this about science its talked about how can a person in the erse so now people are more concerned of course about Global Warming and things like that there was also a movie that was in the sixtys its also of course in the times of cold war it was. Dr strangelove you probably never sort its an i want to move to danger of nuclear all across so its still there actually every single bar Companies Like pakistan and north korea you dont get the warm feeling was having their finger on the Nuclear Button then of course you have the terrorism because all over the place it is still there and they you have false you know also in the case i know here quite well because its been so many times there is income inequality i mean you look at america its enormous fortune youre right in the its much less and of course countries like poland and sweden its much more equal but when you have large income inequalities its an invitation for social disaster. And they have to pull that me and the way Different Countries have their arteries upon them in bad examples of course being countries like america. And also a country like india you know terrible way of dealing is it rich now that mescaline it is supposed to be people who dont from moscow or you know demand growth from caracas totally ridiculous and how its its really a perfect storm and and well of course what you need are leaders social issue you mentioned. You know who i have compassion and have some empathy instead of you have yes be no days of culture that is so people are big leaders. Who. Wish to believe. But lets be a little more precise because i would like to talk to you during this interview about leadership and different kinds of walks of lives but now weve touched upon World Leaders right the cult political leaders and youre saying this is the perfect storm and this perfect storm actually brings to the surface all the downfalls of the systems of the people who are actually having their countries masks are off i mean never has there been a time where everything has been so clear when they say the king is in a cave this is the time about the saying so. It seems like looking over. The world landscape of Political Leadership landscape. Better thats my next question thats my next question but if we talk about the kings that are naked right. And that has become obvious during the make it has a lot of people thinking that maybe the political elite that is heading the world great now lives in the old paradigm that doesnt correspond to the new problems that the world is facing and im not really only talking about the demick the pandemic will go away in a year and a half hopefully there will be able to see and i mean every 100 years there is a condemning but im talking about the problems that it has brought to surface and the inability of the current political elite to deal with these new problems that just dont correspond that old political paradigm what kind of leaders do we need right now considering that we know more precisely what are the problems the world is facing now. Well you know certain things are not new and i think one of the the infineon there. The problem we always have is the greek factor nor the element of greed has been there so are the ages in that still there. And thats i think a fairly not so silent motivator that people behave the way they do i mean its really take the United States as an example even in there if you know if you live in the richest communities or the most bursted they have the best education because it was the education is away or looking so division believed to promise miracles they still built a vote for tom many of them who took trump because of. His f. And tasted dont financially but use a phrase shorts short wave or a short rate of looking ive been fair its a said to your there is no short term. Surge in the entertainment country which is divided and people live in a safe communities guarded by whatever powers protect the. Goons who protect them which is a terrible ray of living his example. The great effect it has always been there and it is unfortunately has been has come very much to the fore come back to your question and youre the only depressed new south and what you need is people who are curtain agents and are dealing to face reality and other problems by the way that we live now in an age of the social media has no meaning or its effect and you know it and thus is no stranger to that by the way in the distribution effect or its bottom but the world has become mosty in that and that this quite unfortunate that you start to get some should obviously limit movie a lot of people that i have spoken to said you know when things like playing demick sap and right where when theres so much uncertainty and no one has the answers he can be the most experienced leader and you can be very smart. And you can be married talented but ls you have Emotional Intelligence and that a compass is a lot of other traits within itself for instance empathy and out of today theres no way you can lead a nation out of crisis like program like would you agree with us would you agree that Something LikeEmotional Intelligence is a must have for a good leader during the times of crisis like this the 1st thing you have to know what are your strengths and weaknesses you can do it all leadership is really a team sport and fortunate tom to give that example because i like the example and so im also now my psychoanalyst amount of the life of 2 heads or mention professor and psychoanalyst he is the example of a school to mimic the narcissist in a malignant narcissist is basically i didnt write the bit about him actually because i thought so you know i can believe in the people because sicko machine really is as so he basically has made it seems is he is so insecure or that its all about him it will never be about its always about him something about him and the 2nd seeing his face indicative to anybody whos not raise him is against him or do anything to crush the prince yes to with it is of course going to be interesting because of this election because he cannot lose its mind so he has to find all different ways to find excuses and so thats but coming back to executives you know the 1st thing i tried to do in my going back to your question about Emotional Intelligence is the question of no dice. And to understand the strengths and weaknesses so many executives dont know him self they dont know right to do more to do the sentencing is that very often and bossy is a very good example actually given the power of this. Is kind of remarkable if you think of our community and seems like thats in the past but theres an enormous amount of or be used to authority so or this great tendency for all the greek word going to a breeze people become too full of themselves and nobody can push them back because. The case of course also in talk. So death and and that is also door to self destruction so as always my surprise that now people many people have a tendency to selfdestruct in a leadership position unless you have a treat if you take a Corporate Culture where people have a healthy disrespect for their boss but its not so easy and particularly in the last year ive done quite some work there is organizations and organ but our this and the 2nd sing would always surprises me or the source of the many executives dont get the best of their people its really again they have no again theres who is emotion tell it is and what i found very noticeable after the 1st week in my program it was 4 weeks over a year and the 1st thing you dont know that people never had a serious conversation is that they have never listened to them so thats what they do is start to have some conversation is that the other thing has to do with his deeds as i said the other ship is a team sport and since you can do everything you should focus on the since youre good at it and you should find people who can compensate for listening to youre not good at it and so i was they give me a somewhat neurotic to make something out of the short time and just be in my work at n. C. R. Ive been trying to buy them yet indeed coach so are 2 really and its always surprises me when you look at exec a leadership in organizations that people spend millions dens of millions of dollars or whatever yours whatever id systems things like that but they are able to aligned. And that cost more money because you get terrified to better me is all this going and seems people are not allowed math for that take a sharp break right now when were back well continue talking to a man fred katz to free years i was a political thinkers on the psychology of leadership talking about what kind of leaders does the world need today stay with us. Or. Are. Thanks guys are financial survival guide. When customers go buy your additional. Didnt help well reducing our. Thats undercutting but whats good for markets its not good for the global economy. But the battle in this ill. Keep on the one making i wonder why did not. All of the. Hope movie but there are some friends that the us are still so but the soul hoping to do something to see. The charm. They value. The simple dollar ill fall in the most simple ill put them on the back you know book it. Was a pandemic no certainly no borders and is blind to nationalities. Has emerged with the we dont look like seeing the whole world needs to be. Judged as commentary closest to sentencing. We can do better we should be. Everyone is contributing way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges create the response has been much so many good people are helping us. It makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. Americans love. This was a fundamental part of how our Political Leadership and our country at large understood the bargain you get a hope and then you know rebel right as the things you dont revolt if you have a stake in the system. And think about the longer deeper history housings men in the United States not just that question of the American Dream but the bigger question of who the dream is for. Our backward man fred katz to for a year and a lifted thinker on the psychology of leadership man correct me if im wrong but what i see the real life is that the vast majority of leaders whether its c. E. O. s of corporations whether its hads of states whether its you know just the heads of little Small Companies doesnt matter they have the traits. That good guys dont have you know because good guys always finish last i mean we talk about trump being. Narcissist but a lot of people who actually get to power are of power hungry are narcissistic are pushy they do lakes sort of go over other peoples heads to get where they want and thats why their leaders and other good guys with compassion and Emotional Intelligence always stay behind i want peace in the article about we should have leaders for life and then you know road which was a very cynical article because leaders for life are not it doesnt make make for stability of the country and thats and also in the tread organization so. In the short term those people might come up but i think one should do everything to have some checks and balances to prevent those people to come to the fore destination for example i have developed many kinds of c 60 christian mirrors that you basically tease out the narcissist i mean the doctor lawyer the commercial narcissus is part of the deal better rate what is the question of accessible rates you need to be narcissistic was a need for self as the excess that people. Pushback they can tell a person for that kind of saying you know stop it this doesnt go anywhere but i think when you have too much obedience to Authority People are in luck to you and many of the leaders who talk about me from the echo chamber i mean they know what they think they want the right want are the interest of other people think thats i think important to me you learn you dont learn by yes tell yourself the same saying so this day in age you get to have some to class or take adventurous you can also say maybe we should have somewhat of a different view of a you have to be somewhat result of hope and thats partially also the Younger Generation i mean i i im not going to are in sync about Global Warming im too old to really come here not too old and i dont feel at all but i mean im not i dont know going to necessarily affect be affected so much by that but then i think about my children and grandchildren they are and so you can see that you know that the Younger Generation may be the company isnt it and yes actually the invention of the jungle generation because the Younger Generation was so affected my age and more of them being gets affected by it maybe thats what it is to find to get all those people out of the way who have certain racial looking at sinks the lets say you leave a couple of centuries ago and you tater i dont know lets say prince of orange and he has led the revolt yet now. What do you have to change one of the essential Leadership Qualities you will try to grow in him. Now i guess one thing we talk about certain qualities one has to have certain amount of selfconfidence i had one executive who was who runs a Large Media Company who told me thank you thank you for being in the seminar because i had the courage that she doesnt have before it was a very insecure person to make some tough decisions nonsinging im not going to fight anybody that was actually its a tough decision court record its much easier to in bring in ben if you fight i said im he said im not going to fight anybody and im going to really hope to hospitals also and have i i have i take a salary cut theres the whole top executives at say that say thats the courage to have courage to do certain saying and to stand up and say this is about it and you know be it everybody was crazy also feel awful but you can decide things are courage muscle to say this this cannot stand now so you have selfconfidence i mean when you look at the person is basically a child who are so insecure or needs all the time to be enforcement so to be to be more aware what you can do and can do coming back to strengths and weaknesses it also going back to your comments about the care that you have a sense of compassion now you have to do it is in moderation because if you have to do and bess if you dont act anymore everything is you can that he or she can understand everything but that might be paralyzed what about cold blooded ness is something a good leader should also balancing himself. Now that has to do with the balance of compassion. Your menu i mean ill show you what i mean because when you see big leaders they need to take Big Decisions and even though its for the good of the people in the long run it doesnt necessarily come across that way to the people right then and there and people sometimes have to suffer for big reforms for a certain period of time 5 years 10 years thats a big chunk of time for one persons life so these people are faced with assad to be compassionate no go with the reforms and you know let the people be happy now or be cold blooded go on with the reform whether its a big c. E. O. Of a company or president of a country but in the longer on even though people are unhappy now with the reforms it will be better off for the country or for the company i see it not as. A blogger this is he this cribbing created some tension no you have to make difficult decision because they the right decision as far as you can see in that cities and supposedly are elected but when youre elect people who just cater to division to believe like you see in brazil missing mean there is this kind of discount of person or i mean theyre coming back to america they dont have the competence to make those decisions if they really realized. They would say they are not stupid people dont realize that they would surround himself with people who would advise they look at a populist like come back to america is a tribute example of over 3 years nectar and he also knew very he was out of his debts so he made you know he had pretty decent advice thats not the case when you look at the present situation america so bloodedness is the business the ability i seem to take some distance and be able to explain what youre saying just in the better investment nation and there was a man called out in the hour who was the german. Youre there in german consular he said a thick skin is a gift of growth unfortunately as only that at times you have need to have a 6 again because you can never please everybody if you want to please everybody you sell ice cream thats my advice is there like a natural the wide and people between leaders and followers and some people are destined to lead and others follow or anyone really can grow a leader in himself if he wants to thats a very interesting question and its not easy to answer because some people feel much better i mean in case of crisis we have a tendency to go back to whats called the dependency assumption be looking for someone who can lead us you know just as paul is already from brotherly ticks times you know we talk about ari for lucian bute for somebody. Thats in general tend to say we also have this fight flight was at the same time and some people depending on their background to mean i mean i have to say gradually as you look at some developmental you know at the well actually for you to use to. Talk about mine the gold in the se