Neither candidate lost me neither one a perfect reflection of the nations politics with the campaign coming to an end do the debates have any meaningful impact is there such a thing as an undecided voter. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest leon jones in Panama City Beach she is an attorney and a former state director for Bernie Sanders and 2016 and in dallas we cross to george c. He is a businessman conservative political leader as well as a former Senior Advisor to marco rubios 2016 president ial campaign or across up rules in effect that means you can jump and how you want and how its appreciated always go to georgia and dallas that as i said in my introduction you know one could argue maybe you want to agree with me one can argue that it was a dead heat neither side won neither candidate won or lost in that debate but for very Different Reasons here i want to focus on this program the impacts of this debate and as it may impact the final result on november 3rd so obviously youre a supporter of donald trump how did he do in this debate. Well ive i agree that this was a hard one to analyze i think if you look at the Kennedy Nixon the bait which was outcome determinative in the rain in cardiff bay which is outcome determinative i dont think this ones going to do that i think it was so canny and so unprecedented in what i would say a negative stance even got the former vice pres in the United States calling the president a clown and race as the dog whistle blower and then youve got the president just being a bully the whole time and interrupting all its time and it was not a gentlemanly debate it was not a reasoned debate and im not sure whos going to change their minds if theres 5 to 15 percent of the electorate in the middle that might be willing to change their minds if they change their minds for Vice President biden i think theyre going to be even president strength in a negative sense and that its its overwhelming and its intimidating and its somewhat frightening and if they change their minds president trying i think its going to be because the vice former Vice PresidentStephen Moore and fumbles around sometimes and they want somebody strong and clearly in control of his faculties in the president in the oval office again but it depends on how they perceive mans behavior and it was very stirring and it was hard to watch even though it was like watching a train wreck replaying crash thats an understatement it was hard to watch i mean i obviously because i live in so many different time zones away. I saw the reporting of it and i had to stop many many times to get through it many times it was done i mean it was all still wrestling ok in bad form ok in my opinion go ahead. It was cringe worthy it was truly truly cringe worthy and it was embarrassing as an american it was embarrassing i dont care which side of the aisle youre on i had hoped as a democrat that biden would have come in prepared this is not unusual for donald trump to interrupt its not unusual for him to go off topic and so i had hoped that President Biden would have been prepared for that and simply stuck to the important part that the american wants to hear the policy issues yet he still got pulled down ensued outruns mud pit and the name calling and even even saying should bother me write or speak in front of childrens classes all the time and if you accidentally say set up an Elementary School class has they will tell you shut up is a bad word so we can even have our children watch this debate to get a good example of what american politics is supposed to be abaft and honestly i would have to say that both sides were losers in this one i dont think anyone would have been swayed either side the only people who may have been sway are people who say listen i dont want to vote im not a normal voter but i do this now because i think theyre going to court the election if im going to get involved and i think that they were convinced to stay on the sidelines yet again i think that that is probably the most important observation that ive heard from anyone looking at these debates its not the partisans its the people it is it worthwhile and i think youre spot on on that point there but you know george lets lets kind of go break it down a bit here i mean one of the things i took away the weekend we can talk about p. P. I. Trips i dont think it really adds to our conversation here but i mean one thing to trump you know when when when the moderator chris was asked you know about packing the court i mean that was unbiased part that was an obvious obvious deflection he wouldnt answer hes been asked for any during the debate he wouldnt ask and trump was absolutely right because binds terrifying to the left his the progressives you sarah. 5 of them ok he needs to get across the line with them now and the issue of courts are very very important for very strong conservatives and for progressives here and i thought that that was a real weak point because i would like to think that the 3 of us are far more interested in policy then the the the personalities that that media love because they get ratings but i mean you know on the policy issue you know biden deflected very very often go ahead. Well they both did actually its an interesting election because typically in the primaries the candidates tack too far the right or far left of name which are either in and then in that in the in the general election they move into the center try to appeal to independents and moderates and people who dont track politics all the time and last night they did both of them did exactly the opposite by the former Vice President as you said basically refused to say he went back to court and then he also did a lot of the law and order baiting that trump bush in any but the president also when he was asked what is your damn White Supremacy groups and far right time actors he said i could never who ever you want but then he didnt express leitz do that so he dodged that when do i was stunned by bo i understand what theyre trying to do but i think this appeal ranks in that 10 to 15 percent of both parties that are highly partisan way off in the in the rough so to speak and not the fair way of american policy views i dont think its good for the country and i dont think its back to be either. Dont you think you think it moves the needle when it comes to november i mean it has to be a very and my introduction is that are there any undecided voters out there i think you know considering not is because im highly critical of by and his campaign for its lack of substance here and their campaign is actually very effective because theyre focusing it all on trump but in my disk when you become president i really would like to know what he stands for we really jumped ok so what about the undecided oh hey. So you know i think this election does a lot to say that we dont know what bind is for weve seen him in the white house for 8 years weve seen him in congress for so many years you know what biden is for he is for expanding health care he is for ensuring that theres Public Safety on the streets i think that it is clear i dont think he has to reestablish his record at this point we know who he is and hes trying to tie himself with president obama bethink for the undecideds again i think its going to be this push to actually get out there President Trump made the most important statement in the opening last night he said elections have consequences nicoles boy they do well when he said theyre related to the courts you know i was a quarter of Bernie Sanders in the 2016 election and it was really hard after the primary to convince bernie supporters who are who are condit i want them as undecided they were angry decided right and they were voting against the establishment of the Democratic Party i think that this last night i spoke to them spoke to them to see what we did in 2016 by being so angry at Hillary Clinton we simply cant afford it now because elections have consequences and the courts right now its one of the biggest consequences that i think its finally starting to make sense to people who didnt realize how important it is to look at you know george like one of the things ive been very critical of the of the trying to ministration and its campaign during this medical help crisis year and the deep recession that so many people are feeling is that the trip in ministration could have very easily gone to the left joe biden but they refused to do it where is congress where are they right now theyre not at work ok and theres a lot millions tens of millions of people suffering donald trump you know baby executive order on pharma like you know i gave 2 days before the debate you know 30. Some days before the the the election and it was a really lame attempt to say this is what health care is i mean again from a policy point of view i think both parties have failed the middle class miserably in dealing with the pen demick in dealing with the economic turndown and this was a golden opportunity for trump but he still surrounds himself with all the wrong people from wall street these libertarians that make us such a small part of the party its a missed opportunity and i see signs with both conventions where the middle class they were largely absent it was for special interests i dont react to that george yeah i disagree with that i think the Republican Convention highlighted africanamericans and hispanic americans and recent immigrants and lots of people that dont love wall street or the far right libertarians my friends and i thought it was actually very well choreographed i would compliment Chris Wallace hes been having with a ring of fire for his role in the last lateral one thing he didnt attack the president on health care because the president and his team dont have a Health Care Plan and that was respected i would also come back the elections have consequences come at the lead onset i totally agree with that and im i i would say that in 2016 that the republicans control the senate you may have the ability to not say Merrick Garland on consent because they control the senate and this time around the president won the election if one is 60 and hes got the rights of nominating a justice and the senates got the right to hear testimony and vote on thats the way they dont lections work and its the way it is and if democrats want that ability they need to win this election and they need to win back the senate its as simple that i would make one mother other comment its a sad point in our American Life that any calling barry is probably going to win. Appointments in the spring corps just as 551495248 as if she had been a nominee when rick Bader Ginsburg was was nominated or when Sandra Day Oconnor was nominated shed be and night. Fireworks 1000 shes just exceptional shes all american shes exceptional and you can disagree with her on on on the war her judicial temperament the way she handles or recording but shes brilliant and shes very Rights Movement she well and every person if we look at the if its advice and consent the question is she a good jurist its not her politics but thats what weve gotten to and thats what weve got a place where we are because we look to the courts to decide things when it was congress and congress there are a collective group of cowards who just throw it up the court throw it up the party dont want to kick any are you like thats whats happening here all right. But i want to push back a little bit and been actually kind of agreeing with you is it you know with the convention i think both conventions missed the class issue both and i and i criticize republicans they played i get it terry paul identity politics and you may disagree with me but i find that to be a dead end because class is a very important issue and i guess you dont hear very Community Conservatives like me talk about class very much go ahead before we go to the break i agree 100 percent you know simply having i did politics have minorities actually convention does not mean youre talking about class there are a lot of middle and lower class white americans that he should be looking to 750. 00 as the federal income tax that our president pays when people who are on welfare who are full welfare can pay more than that and federal taxes in a year says a lot you know it was funny you know i think about this as history repeats itself during the revolutionary war and making up america that order to split poor whites and africanamericans who were here whether they were free or enslaved the rich white landowning americans made the poor whites feel like they were right they dont like i hold that we have to go to heartbreak after heartbreak well continue our discussion on the 1st president ial debate stage. But the pandemic no certainly no borders and is blind to nationalities. Has emerged with the we dont look like seeing the whole world needs to be. Judged. Classist least. We can do better we should know. Everyone is contributing way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created the response has been masked so many good people are helping us. It makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. As the u. S. Economy was booming growing numbers of people were made homeless. You can work 40 hours a week and still not have enough to get housing everybody believes america still is the land of opportunity the reality of the were not born until inequality and the lack of Affordable Housing for a living minimum wage gave many people no choice. Thats been a problem with the city voters turned a return to the coldest a way out a whole new world to source of food for the for is lower its because he wants the records resource the most vulnerable or abandoned on the streets to become invisible comes. Welcome back to crossfire were all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing the 1st president ial debate. Ok lets go back to adopt when you were making a point forward to break please go right ahead so the point is that its been the foundation of American History that we separate the poor from the rich right and the way they do that is that the rich make the poor not focused on the real issues at the convention they do not focus on the real issues how much are you paying your tax dollars how much is your Health Care Cost how much money are you getting back as a worker things stay the same where the minimum wage the federal minimum wage is still low these are issues that they did not focus on at either convention i agree with you wholeheartedly and they missed the boat and theyre missing a lot of americans and in their money in the wires by having these this infighting like we saw in the debate last night that dez not ever not a single question truly a jest what the middle class needs to hear coming out of the pandemic apostle. You know george i mean if you look at polls and its bipartisan you know its either the 12 or 3 issue is health care but both parties they want it they want trink they want to. Go on the margins of changing this adding this difficult theres no real im sorry but there is no serious conversation about health care done is absolutely right you know my progressive friend on the program here is that if there was a time to think about health care it is now and its not being fought about theres so theres so many nos qualifications i really think there has to be a major rethink and as everyone likes to say reimagine it ok because this is the time to do it go ahead joe. Im going to go back to health care i want to address your middle class and lower middle class comments i disagree with you both on that i think trump won last time around because the anglo middle class lower middle class and or a voter in the midwest thought the Democratic Party had brains that didnt politics and abandon them and thats why they all voted for trump and i think this election i just gave it all ok i think it was just saying i didnt know i was making i think i wouldnt you know it was the trade issue see the media missed it the democrats missed it it was trey and i want people understand your student trade policy it hurt them and you know what george lived on in her white people black people and brown people all people that hit ok im not we arent i would argue that. Trumps made some inroads with hispanic and africanamerican voters is common not much but enough that maybe the election but i would argue the elections going to tip this time around whether those voters in pennsylvania ohio minnesota wisconsin michigan where it went with her out last time or do again this time around in fumigate so many endorsements hes received the unions have been indorsing in the Police Forces in indorsing in all these groups that are traditionally very democratic so thats an interesting phenomenon to how but step back and forth is going to be a big factor backing up here i do think the democrats are taking note here much more seriously than republicans and i think most democrats youre active in their party want medicare for all and the problem with the seriousness of that proposal is that will bankrupt the country i wouldnt read the republicans and have not been serious here you look at when they control the senate the house and the presidency and theyve been saying repeal and replace for 7 years else and they have no plan to do that and thats just thats an abomination thats terrible policy with paul ryan in charge of the house they should have a comprehensive plan that they are lies is the worst one and dont dont even get me started going back to you know you know what you used to work rats. You know a little undone here the Current System is bankrupt the people left right and center ok so you know i find that to be on the point of scare tactics but both of you have said in the context of this debate in one and i in