With till today we asked political commentators peter oborne and professor Richard Murphy what exactly is going on on the left and the right of british politics i say Westminster Parliament struggles to hold the government to account during the pandemic and the banks that did it will finally arrives but 1st over to alex with your reaction to last weeks show whats your tweets messages and emails. Was a big reaction to last weeks show which featured the 3 top experts on covert 19 and a huge audience of face because well the 1st stop was from a vet an old friend of the sure that it has to come painless and she picked up the thought the free medical experts all mentioned sustainability and Climate Change and population as a major factor and these are measuring viruses and they were the a number of people who were reflecting that perhaps a growing public skepticism about some of the official messages on covert and when some of them for example said i was really hoping that alex salmond would be questioning the now. Being peddled out daily by the government in the Mainstream Media and perhaps interview the many doctors and scientists who are speaking to a different story and wilma says my question is why is the u. K. Government saying the National Health service is coping yet hospital and Doctor Services are all restricted so hospitals of theyre not coping and maybe a dollar a reference i suspect to the. I mean see. 1000000 dollars says theres never been a safe vaccine and something not tested is dangerous when you dont know what the side effects are and then why it says hi alec can you ask them why the survival rates are being broadly advertise 99. 6 percent survival rate would be good to know your thoughts and jake said can you ask if this cold and flu will kill more people than traditional influenza over the next decade and this the public hysteria justify the governments actions but then of course other people see a so i mean does the will Great Questions and forbid the violence and leslie on says having lost an anti to covert 19 it breaks my heart to see people refusing to believe its real and that of course in the week we have a little deaf to top 1000000 people and Leslie Sylvia taylor says brochure this week that they can still be us from scotland really insightful with clear explanations of covert 19 the ongoing situation and i was hard working experts uprooting the time and great effort into finding out all they can about the virus and how to protect the general population from its very damaging effects and then back to me in a. Few commentators have analyzed the menu 1st on the left and right to british politics this morning authorities and professor Richard Murphy and peter gleick they discuss it alex where stands the author my finance department with the economy hitting twice the twin cliff of course theyd break for. The joining me to talk about the problems on the right and the left of british politics and this autumn sation a parliament of peter oborne and professor richard muffy welcome guys to the. Thank you very much i wish it to be our particular time to you 1st the governors cover joy defeated less than a year since bottlers triumphantly road to victory in the general election but no this autumn the implausible both from coronavirus and indeed who breaks out again how could not possibly be it is amazing given the strength of the Prime Ministers position as recently as last december when he won this case the majority the biggest majority which the conservatives have had since may clash or was legal then certainly the least groups on the tory benches as growing government unpopularity over the weekend we had this major moment when dumb away the head of a Boris Johnson in the polls and what i would say is for conservative leaders conservative Prime Ministers history shows that again and again a big piece of apparently secure majority is not secure the fact is that the conservative party is completely ruthless if the side that johnson has the go johnson will go you wont see him for dust. President ial mafia this is a remarkable thought if you are the conservative leader if you are a minister Bottas Johnson would you be more what it about the role of fault and coronavirus led by a man mr brady or would you be more worried about the european issues still unresolved in terms of the the u. K. Single market which one of these subjects would be the most rewarding for you oh i dont think of any doubt about that it would be the internal market bill by the coronavirus one is problematic but because the government is true to itself so able to u. Turn so frequently on coronavirus that frankly none of us know where they are i think they would do that again and again and keep people satisfied the internal market bill is much more fundamental for many tories this is almost the sustained job the rule of law is fundamental to being a tory so many conservative m. P. s are lawyers we know that the bar council is now raising questions about whether our attorney general can in fact the chair of the bar which by tradition the attorney general always is there are literally proceedings against tory m. P. s for professional misconduct for the team for this bill it is challenging therefore what is to be a conservative and actually this comes back almost to literally the question of being a tory under difference between being a truck and a conservative and literally this is irish history a little bit of which i know tory is an irish word it means the brigand the pursuit and this is really want johnson is turning the tory party into over the issue of the internal market bill and i believe that that is the fundamental conflict with what the conservative elements of the conservative party is wanting to do and its that conflict within the tories themselves that hes now becoming apparent for all to see and which is straining the party itself to its limits and i believe thats why its the real threat to johnson people of fear people know more about tories and tory years of them than you do is that a fair amount us is from Richard Murphy. Richard murphy is 100 percent correct on his analysis that conservatism has the roots of deep embedded respect for the rule of law but i think its politically wrong politically whats going to hurt the tories most of all johnson tenshi get rid of Boris Johnson it is seen to have grossly mishandled coronavirus for the 2nd time i remember we know that he mishandled he missed the 1st fight cobra meetings when it was starting in the state in the in the late winter now if he goes wrong again votes is all of them suffered from coronavirus directly or indirectly its deeply impacted that lives if mr johnson a city has been incompetent to handle this it will hit him this early in the polls it will count for more than what i completely agree about the point about conservative party being about rule. But what is it that is behind the graham Brady Parliament type of vault i mean its a big section of the Parliamentary Conservative Party who really want to see the virus let rip to take on the channel as the as the Prime Minister once said it is it is that that all those are just holding up the rights of parliament against an over mighty government who want to legislate without that approval i think there is nationalist mr johnson was still a columnist of the daily telegraph. We would be wise enough columns about the live but about the state of the current the state of the liberty of the individual in the observer the safety of the government position in government of course mr johnson has that say its a cut all kinds of other considerations so i think actually its part of johnsons own personality festing itself on the brits its hearing wing of the conservative but benches there is a and i think this is going to be a really major issue from from now on it Richard Murphy a bit the labor party up and up the have they really got a different policy on covert 19 from the government or are they just can a net picking where things go wrong who knows i mean genuinely who doesnt really know at the moment labor is playing a very very safe game indeed and i know that there are plenty of people who are frustrated by that. A so long as labor thinks that its showing up johnson every week at the dispatch box and steer clear star is undoubtedly doing that and i dont think the response and as 11. 00 of their exchanges then hes keeping his Parliamentary Party happy he knows he is a young 18 the left and hes living with that with regard to the economy and coronavirus only needs to do is say you should have done track and trace better and there isnt a person in the u. K. Who i suspect disagrees with them and. That they should have a better policy on furlough and job replacement schemes and i again doubt that there are many people disagree with them and they feel score the necessary points that they want do they have a policy well their defenses were not in government its not in a job at the moment to have an alternative policy i doubt that i think they should have a policy but thats what labors doing is playing it incredibly safe with a new leader who simply not trying to take risks so its a difficult position for labor to b. N. But theyre playing that card and on europe Richard Murphy i mean isnt sucky a star of the past and told gentlemen carbon that it should be far more pro european and take a more assertive pro european line no he is a leader he under did the liberal democrat symptom of this is after the field in europe just while 5 former Prime Ministers of queuing up to denounce the governments policy im staggered that in fact in june he did not take some initiatives for to kill a with regard to Northern Ireland practical and point out that frankly it could not be delivered in the way that was then go to happen he could have stood up and said unless there are guarantees were going to oppose this position on 30th june which was the last 8 when he could really be affectively and he didnt do anything and i think that was a mistake on his part because there was a line in the sand be drawn and to say there is a reason for opposition on this issue this time because there are Better Things to do he hasnt shown himself to be a leader on that issue and im disappointed by that i do think hes walked away he simply playing to the red will vote at the moment and you can say politically that might be a wise thing to do pretty doesnt position him well for a future pharmacy policy position can you explain that because robot why the the Opposition Party is a liberal democrat the labor party have fled the field and black certain just when the government is hitting a wall. Its piro politics again i found myself agreeing with Richard Murphy entirely of the missed opportunity particularly on the but also on every other issue but here he says it is all b. S. The cached armor is playing a. Game he sees in he thinks that ive got a 4 years to let the government make a greater and greater mess of things hes going from really isnt it napoleon said never interrupt the enemy when he is making a mistake its incredibly cautious hes the train as Richard Murphy says a lot of things he believes in but he isnt man with his eyes set firmly on dunnings bitterly if you think we use socially distanced conferences are going to cut charred after kill stammers or is speech which i assume to be a balcony of the Labor Party Headquarters as far as i could make of it is going to cut short or were going to get back into the the old stale when times are a more normal where all the m. P. s are there and they go to the bars you will remember how intimidating which they use the muscle of the party to this is often visit lee but certainly mentally intimidate and talk show rebels with the win that were so many m. P. s back in that could sit says that unless the easiest suit so intimidating the 2nd thing is that his stomach as it is a very good in surrogates or in the commons is great live helps by the fact he isnt got hasnt got 350 tory dog tories on the benches they hear that he can its more like a courtroom for him now which is a very familiar atmosphere so kish done that you see. Well joining us off of the break were of 2 experts will tell them to soak your style most prospects as leader of the labor party could he really be the next Prime Minister im a look at detail at the challenges from scotland and ireland to the johnson Government Join the. Air. My name is 2nd on the media mr jackson wanted on seats. For the border you know. When you know weve got to get it out. Too cause you dont need to move. From. The streets and i use that down 6 to make it a day easier you know suits me school on drugs used to people. Who. You know. Who people who comes to clubs do really hes trying to feed a music but. I see these guys because he makes me happy i love he dies because he meets me copy playing with. And when you get to. Be announcing the. Who loves you down. I doubt. Welcome back alex is in conversation with top commentators peter oborne and professor Richard Murphy about the autumn session of the reference to problems with the discussion ny times to the labor party and 5th and. President ial murphy stammers no ahead in one opinion poll at least for the 1st time since the election well that sort quite than any doubt among the labor party about his quiet softly softly style i doubt it. But later parties and obesity is made up of many parts but the real question which im hearing from people who im talking to and i make sure i do is why we only ahead in one opinion poll at this stage given the disasters that are going on inside the conservative party given what has happened in the economy whats going to happen with regard to jobs what is happening with regards to coronavirus surely they should be ahead by a massive margin thats what to do if theyre going to win power and its taken labor a long time to get close to being even nearly ahead now you can say they pulled back 25 plus percent from where they were in april and of course thats good news but im not sure just being ahead at this moment is good enough the peter oborne youve been quite admirer of secure stammers style of leadership thus far do you think it is enough to think less softly softly monkey approaches are enough. Were living through the Biggest National crisis since the 1930 s. Now in those circumstances to have been a man of johnsons style of politics sooner jokey fun celebrity politics i wonder whether he is as we move into a very dark periods in not just british history books global history whether that is the style of leader which people again or want the question is what will in due course what may replace it whats going to see an interesting replacement probably in the United States transferred by letter that leads to a sort of great swaggering alpha male replaced by rather an adult no are we going to Say Something similar here now to maybe the change will come from within the conservative party but it matters or as great as i believe they are. I did they didnt rule out i dont say hi i know what will happen i do not rule out the emerging possibility of actually should governments and Prime Minister sharma before before the next general election is to become more fair focusing there on the tanking economy and one of the patent offices of the cum pulsars as their column in huttle store was the cliff edge as a result of the the call that lot dont impact on the World Economy the chancellor of the exchequer says political start seems to be rising so how do you explain the tanking economy bill arising prospects for the chance of things to. I think the chancellors fortunes are at their absolute peak at the moment to be honest alex and theyre going to be tanking pretty darn soon he has failed dismally to replace the furler scheme fellas scheme was inspired and it worked it provided confidence when confidence was necessary and the cost of whatever it was 40. 00 odd 1000000000 was insignificant in comparison to the alternatives that might have risen so of course his stock rose the one with the eat out to help out scheme even though it now appears to be disastrous with regard to the spread of coronavirus but so far that has not hit him but wait until the end of october when the new job replacement scheme replaces the furlough scheme wait until early 2021 when companies are beginning to have to pay that back taxes which have not so far been paid when they have to begin to pay their rents which of not being paid mortgage deferment holidays begin to end and cash flow crises are going to emerge right across the economy wait until there are people literally by the 1000000 and i do be by the 1000000 becoming unemployed because that is inevitable and most people are seriously underestimating how many 1000000 that is i think we are talking at least 5000000 unemployed i cannot see otherwise with this new Job Retention scheme because it is effectively an unemployment creation scheme it has a curse incentive within it to encourage employers to make people redundant which could not be worse designed if you tried and at that moment is richie soon going to appear to be the guy whos going to save us all from problems no hes going to look like George Osborne did when George Osborne introduced a range of measures in the budget of the budget which really went wrong even from the pasty tax to the caravan tax to all sorts of other things that time and again had to be reformed because that he had made mistakes and i believe hes going to look like a really troublesome chancellor whos fail