A new economy which offers good jobs. Constructive for. Developing that finds of interest structures social environmental structure physical structure that we need the kind of goods that we need to live a decent life and thats the other half of the Green New Deal it is essential for not only for survival but for Health Issues you mention corona virus how does coronavirus alter your analysis given that corona virus threatens corporate profits interstate lee it does not yet. Sure retton most corporate profits many corporations are making money hand over d fist of that high tech for example and it was one day in which jiffies us. 13000000000. 00 or theyre going to hedge funds private equity funds old doing because the treasurer is poor and money into the economy in a way which largely benefits them if you take a look at the economy take the United States but its world would the stock market is breaking records however hes referring records theyre totally dissociated and thats. A sign of the eat disease of the economy which can only be overcome by the development of the policies. Outlined in the details of the Green New Deal proposals what do you make of the continuing corporate reframing of the Climate Crisis its up to ordinary people to recycle to buy organic food its up to them rather than the need for systemic change naturally those who benefit from existing institutions do duck under see them changed not which rudd is a fairly good to tell it area dictatorship and their problems the dictator isnt going to say overthrow me well thats a knowledge as to what youre describing the core of the problem is the. Mantra of. Production for private profit not for need and the you should the fossil fuels will be have to be phasing them out and moving towards total Sustainable Energy no new emissions within a few decades weve talked to scientists about how deforestation that to coronavirus tell me about how in the book you talk about even strategies like red its called r. E. D d its funded by corporations to stop deforestation but in your book here say that it actually facilitates deforestation encourages it. Helps corporate farmers at the expense of others why is it time and time again these strategies sponsored by governments and the world bank in that case seem to achieve the opposite effect i mean they may in the back of their minds decent intentions but there are constrained by the nature of the institutional over who develop programs which will not arm the our full institution and thats. Whats at the core. What will further ensure to their needs the result is posies which whatever their intentions are often negative in there we have to address the problems originally without. Giving priority to the needs of the destructive institutions theres no time to overcome who live in it we have to accommodate to their existence the timescale of institutional change is out of the range of time skill for dealing with the environment for instance so we have to work within the basic institutional structure that exists within it we can find a very clear definite o. Ses there outline the my colleague of poems which review sions the book and so on the till which with a small percentage of the economy suffice it will suffice to deal with these twin programmes has helped book actually go further than the road to hell being paved by good intentions because who want to shock people as you call it deliberately malicious a steak was just happening right in front of her eyes so the last few days with strong corporate backing the truck of ministration has been eliminating. Regulations which protect the population and the environment from release of methane and or snaked other blocks of ways to the benefit of the corporate system not only the fossil fuel Companies Banks finance them benefits them. Its merely harms the environment and harms the American People and then clear now if thats not malice what is out there maybe somebody in the border who says it would be nice to deal with the environment and it would be nice to bill but when it comes to making specific decisions to maximize profit. And market share all those good intentions faded to black and the book the deal is clannad full employment is he bob calling quote calm ox saying capitalism require as unemployment to diminish the boggling power of what because where is this green deal seems to provide for full employment. Remember that we do not live in a capitalist society of the kind that marx was discussing marx was discussing properly an abstract form of capitalism which brings a its essential nature so every existence. Is watermill a form of state capitalism where state action has been undertaken under popular pressure to mitigate the Destructive Forces of pure capitalism so yes sure capitalism would require as mark says the reserve army leave the state capitalism and overcome the floor and move to guarantee employment an incentive decent employment there for what doesnt do with the problems of capitalism in fact we were moving pretty close to formal full employment. Under obamas so the tepid response to those financial questions continue ringback. It was not the kind of full employment that any decent human being would want very large part of it was highly carious job at a very low ive got to ask you does it surprise even you how capitalism has reinforced systems of power among elites even though it may endanger their own children suppose youre the c. E. O. Of. J. P. Morgan chase biggest bank or exxon mobil you basically have 2 choices one choice is to meet the requirements of the institutional structures that exist and work to maximize profits. No matter what the human consequences thats one choice the other choice is to put those aside and work to create a decent world suppose you makes a choice in your be at least thrown out by the board of directors and somebody elses good in who makes the 1st choice these are institutional its not individual its no thats not to say that it would be change within existing institutions it can so take j. P. Morgan chase again biggest bank you know recently internal memo of the bank was leaked and made public its very interesting it werent the directors of the bank that this in their words the survival of humanity is at stake if we continue on our present course of funding trouble feels that it added that the bank is facing reputational risks meaning the public is getting and rage and will take its revenge on you and harm you the leaders of the bank unless you make moves towards that were going to Save Humanity from destruction otherwise the banks will be taken over the public and national ads which then be done or replaced by public thanks thats all within reach and the leaders of the economy know that their old is quite fragile while everything seems nationalized here in britain more so than after the 2008 to crash because of a pandemic and hundreds of people are being arrested on the streets of london as part of the Extinction Rebellion protest that j. P. Morgan claims in public. Rather than any mema fossil fuel loads for the Arctic Drilling have stopped their phasing out known for coal mining and theyre planning a 200000000000. 00 empowerment something called the Empowerment Economic Development deal on pa with Goldman Sachs you mention exxon mobil well the bottom shelf says yes Climate Change is real yes renewables are an indispensable part of the future energy mix but no provoking provoking a sudden death of fossil fuel is not a plausible plan. And then what you do is explain to the general public that this holds that theyre serving their own interests and you must hold their feet to the fire to dry up those pretenses and to do it they know is in fact feasible and correct to move away from certainly from coal and from all d fossil fuels as rapidly as we are involved in a class war and one of the ruling class doesnt say im just going to do it i want i dont care about you it cant they dont have that power the rule is fragile they know it therefore they must accommodate to an energized active engaged up you know exactly as is often done in the us the Green New Deal uses the phrase new deal because the new deal in the 1930 s. Did something very similar. Not are sufficient scale but i am kind of seeing a Government Action to overcome ringback a crisis deep crisis coal cause the fundamental flaws of the list. And then again the war was vested more expense way beyond anything required. Ended the depression created. First. Consumer demand which led to several. Fairly rapid surely go there it grew. Scale stopping that more from one of the worlds greatest public intellectuals after this break. Can be used as a workable of the most leasing of the polluter to move the maze initiative. That sounds the guy. Is a name for your list of the most moved closer and. Closer to the field. The unseen those of us. If we was to use the book with those guys discovering that those it would be was a feasible. But nothing to me yeah of course free. Welcome back im still here with american president and author of the seminal manufacturing consent no im jones k. Imagine the new deal clearly your primary process for the democrats did not elect Bernie Sanders who favored the new deal style politics here in britain of course Jeremy Corbin lost the election what do you make of november you say in the book the democrats are in the pockets of wall street lobbyists the republicans you compared to right wing fringe parties of europe. We know that right you know the republicans are. They are in International Comparisons they are compared with 3 parties in europe with neo fascist backgrounds and on issues like climate the worst in the world they want to trumpet ministration wants to race towards maximizing the used to fossil fuels eliminating the regulatory system which reduces somewhat their destructive effect on the climate on the population perfectly open about this not pretending anything otherwise take a look at the Republican Convention not a word about it just trying to rouse peoples emotions fears a fear that wakes primacy. Of. Taking away their guns and any emotional feel you can imagine told very familiar from or a product regimes of a new fresh. In the inside the Democratic Party theres a conflict striving. You can see it if you look closely at whats happened to climate you know back about 2 weeks take a look at the internet 2 weeks ago look for Democratic PartyClimate Programs theyre pretty Progressive Program was by his program forced on by you didnt choose it forced on biden by the progress or praise d. Program better than any that it yet exist tailored at the same internet now to fill in right tray and clipped democratic Climate Programs what you find is nothing. They removed the d n the Democratic National committee the d. N. C. Basically clintonite donor oriented democrats managed in a big power play to remove bidens progressive Climate Program thats a battle inside the Democratic Party is very rather similar to what we just saw and britain where the blairite right wing labor party or the mentor labor Party Managed undermine the korban campaign in a really vicious matter very powerful 800 page deterrent study of how they did it which is being most recent pressed in the British Press budgetary and or which showed to means that they went to to try to undermine corbins effort to develop a labor already that would be responsive to the needs of its constituents participatory labor party with policies that actually had very high approval among the government the right way for the labor party for the mentor they were already couldnt stand that theyd rather lose the election than lose control of the party were saying something similar to that in the conflict within the Democratic Party today and what it means is that the progressive base were harder more energetically more commitment. To ensure that they go back to the reverse is true now and not be forced to abandon the dollar oriented midnight to serve a deliberate or basically what used to be cool. All of that is. Over sure its the desperate need to get rid of the lignage in the ways. Which wherever it produces make a critic or the weight will loot. Is. Worse and will if it free. They should destroy it well we invite suggest aamer on to refute what you said about labor however hes seeking an investigation into our right to broadcast at all thats for joe biden apparently the policy hasnt changed 2 trillion dollars to boost clean energy and upgrade to 4000000. 00 buildings a seeking of a shift towards Public Transportation but of course as you know in the most recent speech joe biden said no ban on fracking there are so many different aspects obviously to the Green New Deal but given that weve had the deaths of refugees being reported here in the English Channel and in this book you say rich countries are in turmoil because a small fraction of refugees might defile their precious ethnic purity and you also quote the u. N. Figure of 65000000 refugees fleeing violence particular nand Global Warming why do you think they are presented in our media as a migrant and that the real enemy here is Human Trafficking not foreign policy. For the reasons that you just quoted and ironic but after a moment well they might be trial racial purity we see in that issue or in Human History its disgraceful its shocking that has to be overcome europes reaction to the refugee crisis is that specter will or europe is moving in a setting up centers in the poorest countries in africa. To try to deter people from fleeing from the wreckage the european imperialism to make sure that they dont get to europe sures were arriving turkey to keep them away from us no the theres a reason why people are fleeing not because they love europe its because of intolerable d conditions largely created by a european terror and violence over centuries and now its europes responsibility to behave humanely towards. And not to resort to their racist pretenses and order to unhitch them for for europe crimes same is true here when president truong. Compels mexico to keep Central American refugees from reaching the territory of the United States to full for asylum which they certainly deserve why are they failing central america. Not because they dont like their own weaker us terrorist while its destroyed their country theyre quite a few books people can read of us about that and thats terrible and violent i just. That you would agree presumably with donald trump however that our greatest immediate threat was a Nuclear Holocaust caused by Nuclear Weapons agree with trump is racing towards maximize exist threat of Nuclear Weapons thats why the the clock has been moved over the famous Doomsday Clock has been moved the minute then has been moved closer to midnight every year the truck has been in office this last january they abandoned minutes moved to seconds 100 seconds to midnight since january protests continued as an act on the arms control regime which is has been the rule somewhat limited the enormous threat of Nuclear Destruction it already eliminated the i. N. F. Treaty one couple months ago march eliminated the open skies treaty which traces back to eisenhower he is no he laid on trivial a screw delayed implement the renewal of the new start treaty where now it may even be too late to renew it and its the last of the major treaty is soon won beyond that or threatening to Start Nuclear testing. As has been learned for 28 years all of this is on top of that moving towards creating. New weapon new and or more threatening weapons of destruction against which there is no possible. Immigrants dont have a very record on this issue but nothing wrong well we invite we invite the u. S. Ambassador on trump says actually hes all for peace obviously meant them finally ive got to ask you about julian a songe of wiki leaks he begins the trial of his life in 48 hours time in a london court the u. N. Wrapper turkey has been on this show says hes been having 3 tortured by british authorities what do you think it will mean if the wiki leaks founder is extradited to the United States on espionage charges it would be a criminal on the part of the british. To exceed to the u. S. So then an extradition. It would be issued theyve already committed many crimes. On the surges of sense is not saying bail. No she had good reasons not to because he would have been extradited if he did not think bill requires a tap on the wrist not torture in a high security prison. Up to the what reason not even a leader is allowed to receive books im in mass murderers or being treated like in a way beyond the worst vicious criminal ok and if hes extradited it comes up for trial on the us as spinozas laws which even jerry attentional did. Its trial is being. Committed the crime of letting the general population know things that they have a right to know and that powerful states dont want of the know thats the crime. And the way the British Government is acting is to the floor will. It or pres