Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240712 : comparemela.

A world 1st but many scientists around the globe express alarm fearing future corners have been caught. Those are your headlines and i will be back in about an hour with another look at them this is our 2 international story. Ive after a time to know what youre going on the ground the team and i will be back with a brand new season starting september the 5th but until that well be showing you some of your favorite shows of this past season stay safe coming up in this episode its always had a strange connection with animals i connect with people with well with animals at small mind to mind one of the worlds most famous conservationists jane goodall tells. On the ground the finger wagging at china from elites wont stop the Global Industrial farming practices and environmental destruction that may cause the next pandemic oliseh more coming up on todays going underground but 1st to a scientist who has transformed our definition of humanity itself while leaders like Boris Johnson and donald trump attempt to reignite new liberal economics after coronavirus the pioneering primatologist dr jane goodall argues we need mastery education about what it is to be human without that education promoted in 140 countries by her ngo roots and shoots we are condemned just suffer not just coronavirus but one pandemic after another she joins me now via skype from bournemouth in england jane thanks so much for coming on everyone here is talking about restarting the economy the u. S. And u. K. Saying weve got to fight china yet few people really talking about environmental or industrial farming what do you make of the origin of coronavirus. Well you know i obviously personally havent studied the transmission of viruses from animals to people as socalled zoonotic diseases but ive read an awful lot about it its very clear that most new diseases in people today have spilled over from bacteria or in this case of iris from animals sometimes it goes from a reservoir speeds to another animal which ystem the intermediate host and from that down multi people and we brought this on ourselves because of our terrible disrespect of the Natural World and animals and so you know we take wild animals we kill them eat them we trafficked them we send them to meet markets in asia well animal meat markets in asia and meat the bush meat trade animals also meat markets in africa and we breathed down Domestic Animals billions of them in terrible cruel. You know conditions and all of this terrible conditions in the meat markets and our factory farms are creating absolutely super environments as far as that this is a 2nd sound to animals to people who move to the markets there no less than a celebrity like support mccartney who is quick to say we must close the wet markets down i notice youve been keen to emphasize the difference between wet markets per se and wildlife markets perhaps seeking not to oriental eyes this pandemic. Yes well the thing is the point about a wet market is that most wet markets in china dont sell wild animals theyre more like the farmers markets that we have while we have them in britain and america but not wild animals thats now been closed in china the trading and selling of wild animals for troops the problem here is you saw one program again another looms something one looming here is all the thousands of people who actually have no other likelihood so you have to help them get through changing from breeding and selling wild animals hunting wild animals for food and finding another way of making money so you see poverty is crucial eradication of poverty is crucial to your Environmental Concerns absolutely and you know we mustnt forget the Climate Crisis and our concern for the cove it 19 because thats something which will carry on into the future this this pandemic will get through yes there are to many many places are going to have very serious economic problems people have lost their jobs people are mourning family members who know its been awful but we will get through it just as we get through really been through a lot of very unpleasant times in my life when i lived 860 so. When you hear leaders like Boris Johnson babson certainly dont trump repeatedly claiming no one could have predicted this pandemic you know you know i think thats the case. And i know its not its not like because people studying these these soon arctic seasons have been predicting a really long time and you know that learns ok hiv aids started problem until. And selling eating chimpanzees in 2 different parts of africa sassed magic and from another wild wild animal market in china and now its begun probably camels in the middle east and theyre being simple academics began from our factory farms in the effort to arson all these terrible unhygienic conditions one of the new films that are out from national geographic. Called jame the 1st of their 2 ones called hope talks about you when youre in goma in tanzania and the tragedy when polio hits the Small Community of a chimpanzee you are investigating in and made the whole of the world realize that humans were the only not the only species to have consciousness arguably just tell me about when a pandemic hit that camp. Well it was it was really only the worst time in my life because we never knew which chimpanzee would come in dragging an arm or a neck and then some of them would just disappear and it was it was absolutely heartbreaking and it began in a nearby town. And bizarrely the doctor at the time it was an italian he he didnt he could not talk about polio we think its because he couldnt have the proper supplies anyway nobody knew that there was colin or anywhere and then some people in a village just south of gumby got this paralysis and then some chimps there was seen dragging limbs and then it came to us so we back snake is the muslim in there is susceptible to these restore a tree diseases and were terribly worried that this could at 19 could get you know an effect in fact our chimps and theyre all endangered now on the run in towns yeah im going to get the reasons for there are possible extinction but speaking about gone bad nearly 60 years since you were there with our groundbreaking research but of course whats disturbing about it today is it led to a war a virtual war between different elements in the community because an epidemic struck an area well actually the division of the community and what i call the 4 year war wasnt actually. It had nothing to do with the polio epidemic what we now know is that anywhere where a tourist an ape so except really studies group we have to take very great precautions to ensure that the chimps dont catch a casus in. The chimpanzees i knew in the old days so honest all gone but one of the ones who has by real hopes a friend with graeme and. Last time i actually saw kremlin she came right up to me and looked into my eyes i mean of course they recognize us just as we recognize them that we had ducked under the shiver on this Program Actually in the past few days i know she said platforms with you she was saying it was clear the deforestation is part of the puzzle of corona virus and his one and a half acres of rain forests are destroyed every 2nd tell me about the deforestation how its affected animal life the chimpanzees that you love so so much and why the whole world needs to wake up to the idea that its affecting them right now well the deforestation particularly of the tropical forests which are carbon sinks the they you know absorb c o 2 Carbon Dioxide from the atmosphere and store it and as we destroy the forests we release that Carbon Dioxide back of course relates to the Climate Crisis just like the pollution of the ocean but also as we clean out more and more current its rich bio diversity so animals are pushed together much more frequently than they would be because you know the owners in habitat to turn and animals are pushed into shreds the contact with humans some of them are rating simply becomes we have been great at their homes so yeah this is definitely an important part of the. Seasons. In one of the movies the chicago conference you spoke at in 1986 was on forest destruction and its there that 90 percent of chimpanzees were killed in the 1980 s. It seems like an enormous sum what does it feel like in 2020 talking about deforestation. Well its just going on and you know its one of the things that a con terribly concerned by an intense any o. E. M. Programs for reforestation and protecting the existing forests will have biodiversity and thats where it impacts the the zoonotic diseases so why do you think a pandemic that is made everyone conscious of that connection suppose you would hope why is it theres been no call for companies associated with forest destruction were no call for them to be shut down after this pandemic is if not over at least has less of an impact on our daily lives. Well lets hope there were there that will be there might be i mean ive been fighting to stop the forestation and again we come back to probably because an awful lot of that the forest station the scene with other habitats too is very poor people and theyve been cut down their Arms Treaties in administration to grow food to feed their families so you know we also have to take into consideration the growing human population world line eat and. I learned in the rainforest how everything is interconnected and just doing one piece of it isnt enough but luckily different n. G. O. S tackle different aspects of that Global Environmental problem how can a forest i have this very strong feeling of great spiritual power and. It was the kind of feeling that i sometimes have in one of the old cathedrals where people have been to my shrimp yeah after year after year. You are arguably. Really important when it came to stopping animal experimentation basically chimpanzee experimentation with all the talk now is of vaccines and actually theyre often talking about in iraq for university of chimp a dino virus that theyre injecting with corona virus as i understand it into pigs well how do you see the role of our animal animal experimentation in vaccine research. Well quite honestly if i talk to the people who doctors and scientists who are coming up against on the experimentation you know the stillest work on mice and rats and dogs and even chimpanzees are not so like us they were if they were thought to be the arms of finding vaccines and hearers buttle that they can be infected mother animals couldnt they didnt develop the symptoms. One of the labs i visited i was shown into this room with 4 tims down each side 5 foot by 5 foot cages 7 foot high and the 1st from is called jojo. It was very handsome male been alone for 15 years or so and i looked into his eyes and i was thinking of the gumby chimpanzees lying their soft ground making leafy nests grooming each other and he being there alone with time and so tears began trickling under my mask and he reached out a gentle finger and wiped the tears away the way ahead is to work harder and harder an alternative to using any animals in medical experimentation and you know theres a lot of doctors writing from atlanta was going to conferences that it and huge strides has been made theres many many ways of experimenting with excel tissue and organ tissue which do not involve torturing animals the problem very often is that to get some new drugs on the market you have to show the powers that whatever organization it is that you have done experiments on animals dr jane goodall ill stop you there more from one of the worlds most famous conservationists after this short break. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy. Let it be an arms race off and spearing Dramatic Development only mostly exists i dont see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. To sudden forced and illegal takeover of a government by a small group. Rather than revolution resource soldiers conduct small group the corporations when you have a tiny group of people who have all the power you have to have some means to make sure the rest of us dont get together and take it back. These are sacrificing. Places that capitalism exploited and destroyed for profit and left behind misery poverty environmental devastation and so you see things like Voter Suppression building more prisons you seem gerrymandering all sorts of undemocratic practices were well enough of that world for well for this. Question. Welcome back im still here with world renowned conservationist dr jane goodall well on the Big Pharmaceutical Companies maybe on big fossil fuel companies. Actually written about chimpanzees in a different context hes a mean. Talking about this apparent dissonance between the c. E. O. s of these sorts of companies and the children and grandchildren of the c. E. O. s of these companies tell me about roots and shoots and how. Somehow education can create children or help children understand i dont know what their parents are doing is going to create more pandemics in the future. Absolutely more pandemics and more destruction of the environment and actually stealing their future it works written tricks to ghana 99 he won and it began with 12 High School Students in tanzania its now in 65 countries its growing all the time it has members in kindergarten university in everything in between and may choose projects themselves but one to help people one help animals one to help the environment because of this everything being interconnected and changing the world as we speak they are were listening to their very small theyre being empowered and were helping them to express us a feel and theyre learning about the kind of things that we never learn to count because they want problems back then. I had the idea of rutan tonight because i found so many young people whod lost hope and said there was nothing they could do about the future of the planet so i try and inspire as many children of all ages as i can to take action and roots and shoots somehow create certain values and we found that many what i call alumni the people being true the roots and shoots program arent they really you know they come up to me in china for example and same of course we care about the environment we were in roots and shoots in Primary School and i dont know for a fact that sometimes a child will influence the behavior parent or grandparent because they told me so what about the idea of it say no less than the girlfriend of the british Prime Minister carry simmonds has been tweeting i understand about rooted shirts will politicians really react to. Speeding up processes that will stop Climate Change i mean by 20 what is that within 100 years we expect to have no rain forest whatsoever on earth at the current rate. At the current rate and thats why its so desperate to stop it and we still have time we have this window of time and i think my greatest hope is partly the resilience of nature you know around gandhi in 1998 all the trees that had been there had gone and now theyre back again because we work with the people alleviate their property and so on but. So their children you know theyre not theyre not making demands theyre showing example i dont believe you can change anybodys heart whether its a parent whos just a you know ordinary person with an ordinary job or somebody whos a c. E. O. Or a politician youve got to reach the heart its no good arguing with that with the mind because soon as you begin arguing people get defensive they want to protect their point of view and theyre thinking all the time about how theyre going to refute what they can wring but if you tell stories stories that region of the heart you may not know at the time the difference that you make but you sometimes find out later what about working with big business on environmental projects we have no less than an adviser to Prince Charles on this program who told us that he was appalled by green washing at top fossil fuel companies of course you have a history with conoco funded your project what would you advise environmentalist today about whether they should team up with big fossil fuel companies perhaps with flowers on their labels and their logos. Yes well i think the 1st thing to do is to investigate the practices that that company and what percentage of money theyre putting into developing alternative Clean Renewable Energy is a reason that we went with conoco is because back then before they were true they were boarded up by 1st dupont and then today phillips but back then they were the most environmentally friendly oil company on the planet and i think i sat down and i thought ok but i think this thing out and i thought to myself heres a company thats trying to do it as well as they can and im flying im driving im using electricity im spending money on the projects that products at these Oil Companies are selling so its very hypocritical if you meet one thats trying to do better and you say no im not going to take your money might look might make you look better than you are as hypocritical so my my my advice is really find out what that company is doing i mean some of them totally mushy and its awful but some of them really are putting a lot of money into alternative energy and treat planting then take money from them and what bring them to make things worse now i work partly this some activist with say have a time for that environmental ism is over as the Climate Emergency becomes more obvious Extinction Rebellion the group the International Group that is. In the lead arguably with fighting Climate Change they were put on a tear or list here perhaps using tactics perhaps using weapons of their are enemies whats your reaction to Extinction Rebellion as it plans demonstrations around the world virtually or in situ during the pandemic. Well i think i honestly think that you know demonstrations have a role to play nonviolent demonstrations and to use force has happened in an nde many countries against peaceful protest is shocking i mean people need to express their views and i think when people as an Global Industrial<\/a> farming practices and environmental destruction that may cause the next pandemic oliseh more coming up on todays going underground but 1st to a scientist who has transformed our definition of humanity itself while leaders like Boris Johnson<\/a> and donald trump attempt to reignite new liberal economics after coronavirus the pioneering primatologist dr jane goodall argues we need mastery education about what it is to be human without that education promoted in 140 countries by her ngo roots and shoots we are condemned just suffer not just coronavirus but one pandemic after another she joins me now via skype from bournemouth in england jane thanks so much for coming on everyone here is talking about restarting the economy the u. S. And u. K. Saying weve got to fight china yet few people really talking about environmental or industrial farming what do you make of the origin of coronavirus. Well you know i obviously personally havent studied the transmission of viruses from animals to people as socalled zoonotic diseases but ive read an awful lot about it its very clear that most new diseases in people today have spilled over from bacteria or in this case of iris from animals sometimes it goes from a reservoir speeds to another animal which ystem the intermediate host and from that down multi people and we brought this on ourselves because of our terrible disrespect of the Natural World<\/a> and animals and so you know we take wild animals we kill them eat them we trafficked them we send them to meet markets in asia well animal meat markets in asia and meat the bush meat trade animals also meat markets in africa and we breathed down Domestic Animals<\/a> billions of them in terrible cruel. You know conditions and all of this terrible conditions in the meat markets and our factory farms are creating absolutely super environments as far as that this is a 2nd sound to animals to people who move to the markets there no less than a celebrity like support mccartney who is quick to say we must close the wet markets down i notice youve been keen to emphasize the difference between wet markets per se and wildlife markets perhaps seeking not to oriental eyes this pandemic. Yes well the thing is the point about a wet market is that most wet markets in china dont sell wild animals theyre more like the farmers markets that we have while we have them in britain and america but not wild animals thats now been closed in china the trading and selling of wild animals for troops the problem here is you saw one program again another looms something one looming here is all the thousands of people who actually have no other likelihood so you have to help them get through changing from breeding and selling wild animals hunting wild animals for food and finding another way of making money so you see poverty is crucial eradication of poverty is crucial to your Environmental Concerns<\/a> absolutely and you know we mustnt forget the Climate Crisis<\/a> and our concern for the cove it 19 because thats something which will carry on into the future this this pandemic will get through yes there are to many many places are going to have very serious economic problems people have lost their jobs people are mourning family members who know its been awful but we will get through it just as we get through really been through a lot of very unpleasant times in my life when i lived 860 so. When you hear leaders like Boris Johnson<\/a> babson certainly dont trump repeatedly claiming no one could have predicted this pandemic you know you know i think thats the case. And i know its not its not like because people studying these these soon arctic seasons have been predicting a really long time and you know that learns ok hiv aids started problem until. And selling eating chimpanzees in 2 different parts of africa sassed magic and from another wild wild animal market in china and now its begun probably camels in the middle east and theyre being simple academics began from our factory farms in the effort to arson all these terrible unhygienic conditions one of the new films that are out from national geographic. Called jame the 1st of their 2 ones called hope talks about you when youre in goma in tanzania and the tragedy when polio hits the Small Community<\/a> of a chimpanzee you are investigating in and made the whole of the world realize that humans were the only not the only species to have consciousness arguably just tell me about when a pandemic hit that camp. Well it was it was really only the worst time in my life because we never knew which chimpanzee would come in dragging an arm or a neck and then some of them would just disappear and it was it was absolutely heartbreaking and it began in a nearby town. And bizarrely the doctor at the time it was an italian he he didnt he could not talk about polio we think its because he couldnt have the proper supplies anyway nobody knew that there was colin or anywhere and then some people in a village just south of gumby got this paralysis and then some chimps there was seen dragging limbs and then it came to us so we back snake is the muslim in there is susceptible to these restore a tree diseases and were terribly worried that this could at 19 could get you know an effect in fact our chimps and theyre all endangered now on the run in towns yeah im going to get the reasons for there are possible extinction but speaking about gone bad nearly 60 years since you were there with our groundbreaking research but of course whats disturbing about it today is it led to a war a virtual war between different elements in the community because an epidemic struck an area well actually the division of the community and what i call the 4 year war wasnt actually. It had nothing to do with the polio epidemic what we now know is that anywhere where a tourist an ape so except really studies group we have to take very great precautions to ensure that the chimps dont catch a casus in. The chimpanzees i knew in the old days so honest all gone but one of the ones who has by real hopes a friend with graeme and. Last time i actually saw kremlin she came right up to me and looked into my eyes i mean of course they recognize us just as we recognize them that we had ducked under the shiver on this Program Actually<\/a> in the past few days i know she said platforms with you she was saying it was clear the deforestation is part of the puzzle of corona virus and his one and a half acres of rain forests are destroyed every 2nd tell me about the deforestation how its affected animal life the chimpanzees that you love so so much and why the whole world needs to wake up to the idea that its affecting them right now well the deforestation particularly of the tropical forests which are carbon sinks the they you know absorb c o 2 Carbon Dioxide<\/a> from the atmosphere and store it and as we destroy the forests we release that Carbon Dioxide<\/a> back of course relates to the Climate Crisis<\/a> just like the pollution of the ocean but also as we clean out more and more current its rich bio diversity so animals are pushed together much more frequently than they would be because you know the owners in habitat to turn and animals are pushed into shreds the contact with humans some of them are rating simply becomes we have been great at their homes so yeah this is definitely an important part of the. Seasons. In one of the movies the chicago conference you spoke at in 1986 was on forest destruction and its there that 90 percent of chimpanzees were killed in the 1980 s. It seems like an enormous sum what does it feel like in 2020 talking about deforestation. Well its just going on and you know its one of the things that a con terribly concerned by an intense any o. E. M. Programs for reforestation and protecting the existing forests will have biodiversity and thats where it impacts the the zoonotic diseases so why do you think a pandemic that is made everyone conscious of that connection suppose you would hope why is it theres been no call for companies associated with forest destruction were no call for them to be shut down after this pandemic is if not over at least has less of an impact on our daily lives. Well lets hope there were there that will be there might be i mean ive been fighting to stop the forestation and again we come back to probably because an awful lot of that the forest station the scene with other habitats too is very poor people and theyve been cut down their Arms Treaties<\/a> in administration to grow food to feed their families so you know we also have to take into consideration the growing human population world line eat and. I learned in the rainforest how everything is interconnected and just doing one piece of it isnt enough but luckily different n. G. O. S tackle different aspects of that Global Environmental<\/a> problem how can a forest i have this very strong feeling of great spiritual power and. It was the kind of feeling that i sometimes have in one of the old cathedrals where people have been to my shrimp yeah after year after year. You are arguably. Really important when it came to stopping animal experimentation basically chimpanzee experimentation with all the talk now is of vaccines and actually theyre often talking about in iraq for university of chimp a dino virus that theyre injecting with corona virus as i understand it into pigs well how do you see the role of our animal animal experimentation in vaccine research. Well quite honestly if i talk to the people who doctors and scientists who are coming up against on the experimentation you know the stillest work on mice and rats and dogs and even chimpanzees are not so like us they were if they were thought to be the arms of finding vaccines and hearers buttle that they can be infected mother animals couldnt they didnt develop the symptoms. One of the labs i visited i was shown into this room with 4 tims down each side 5 foot by 5 foot cages 7 foot high and the 1st from is called jojo. It was very handsome male been alone for 15 years or so and i looked into his eyes and i was thinking of the gumby chimpanzees lying their soft ground making leafy nests grooming each other and he being there alone with time and so tears began trickling under my mask and he reached out a gentle finger and wiped the tears away the way ahead is to work harder and harder an alternative to using any animals in medical experimentation and you know theres a lot of doctors writing from atlanta was going to conferences that it and huge strides has been made theres many many ways of experimenting with excel tissue and organ tissue which do not involve torturing animals the problem very often is that to get some new drugs on the market you have to show the powers that whatever organization it is that you have done experiments on animals dr jane goodall ill stop you there more from one of the worlds most famous conservationists after this short break. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy. Let it be an arms race off and spearing Dramatic Development<\/a> only mostly exists i dont see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. To sudden forced and illegal takeover of a government by a small group. Rather than revolution resource soldiers conduct small group the corporations when you have a tiny group of people who have all the power you have to have some means to make sure the rest of us dont get together and take it back. These are sacrificing. Places that capitalism exploited and destroyed for profit and left behind misery poverty environmental devastation and so you see things like Voter Suppression<\/a> building more prisons you seem gerrymandering all sorts of undemocratic practices were well enough of that world for well for this. Question. Welcome back im still here with world renowned conservationist dr jane goodall well on the Big Pharmaceutical Companies<\/a> maybe on big fossil fuel companies. Actually written about chimpanzees in a different context hes a mean. Talking about this apparent dissonance between the c. E. O. s of these sorts of companies and the children and grandchildren of the c. E. O. s of these companies tell me about roots and shoots and how. Somehow education can create children or help children understand i dont know what their parents are doing is going to create more pandemics in the future. Absolutely more pandemics and more destruction of the environment and actually stealing their future it works written tricks to ghana 99 he won and it began with 12 High School Students<\/a> in tanzania its now in 65 countries its growing all the time it has members in kindergarten university in everything in between and may choose projects themselves but one to help people one help animals one to help the environment because of this everything being interconnected and changing the world as we speak they are were listening to their very small theyre being empowered and were helping them to express us a feel and theyre learning about the kind of things that we never learn to count because they want problems back then. I had the idea of rutan tonight because i found so many young people whod lost hope and said there was nothing they could do about the future of the planet so i try and inspire as many children of all ages as i can to take action and roots and shoots somehow create certain values and we found that many what i call alumni the people being true the roots and shoots program arent they really you know they come up to me in china for example and same of course we care about the environment we were in roots and shoots in Primary School<\/a> and i dont know for a fact that sometimes a child will influence the behavior parent or grandparent because they told me so what about the idea of it say no less than the girlfriend of the british Prime Minister<\/a> carry simmonds has been tweeting i understand about rooted shirts will politicians really react to. Speeding up processes that will stop Climate Change<\/a> i mean by 20 what is that within 100 years we expect to have no rain forest whatsoever on earth at the current rate. At the current rate and thats why its so desperate to stop it and we still have time we have this window of time and i think my greatest hope is partly the resilience of nature you know around gandhi in 1998 all the trees that had been there had gone and now theyre back again because we work with the people alleviate their property and so on but. So their children you know theyre not theyre not making demands theyre showing example i dont believe you can change anybodys heart whether its a parent whos just a you know ordinary person with an ordinary job or somebody whos a c. E. O. Or a politician youve got to reach the heart its no good arguing with that with the mind because soon as you begin arguing people get defensive they want to protect their point of view and theyre thinking all the time about how theyre going to refute what they can wring but if you tell stories stories that region of the heart you may not know at the time the difference that you make but you sometimes find out later what about working with big business on environmental projects we have no less than an adviser to Prince Charles<\/a> on this program who told us that he was appalled by green washing at top fossil fuel companies of course you have a history with conoco funded your project what would you advise environmentalist today about whether they should team up with big fossil fuel companies perhaps with flowers on their labels and their logos. Yes well i think the 1st thing to do is to investigate the practices that that company and what percentage of money theyre putting into developing alternative Clean Renewable Energy<\/a> is a reason that we went with conoco is because back then before they were true they were boarded up by 1st dupont and then today phillips but back then they were the most environmentally friendly oil company on the planet and i think i sat down and i thought ok but i think this thing out and i thought to myself heres a company thats trying to do it as well as they can and im flying im driving im using electricity im spending money on the projects that products at these Oil Companies<\/a> are selling so its very hypocritical if you meet one thats trying to do better and you say no im not going to take your money might look might make you look better than you are as hypocritical so my my my advice is really find out what that company is doing i mean some of them totally mushy and its awful but some of them really are putting a lot of money into alternative energy and treat planting then take money from them and what bring them to make things worse now i work partly this some activist with say have a time for that environmental ism is over as the Climate Emergency<\/a> becomes more obvious Extinction Rebellion<\/a> the group the International Group<\/a> that is. In the lead arguably with fighting Climate Change<\/a> they were put on a tear or list here perhaps using tactics perhaps using weapons of their are enemies whats your reaction to Extinction Rebellion<\/a> as it plans demonstrations around the world virtually or in situ during the pandemic. Well i think i honestly think that you know demonstrations have a role to play nonviolent demonstrations and to use force has happened in an nde many countries against peaceful protest is shocking i mean people need to express their views and i think when people as an Extinction Rebellion<\/a> do take to the streets when children take to the streets you know it must spark some new awareness in some people and the way you can understand that they threaten the profits the socalled shareholder value the with all the externalities of the accountants call them the power are clearly fearful of these demonstrations and arguably the the hope that you speak of i think youre writing a book on hope at the moment. Well thats absolutely true and you know the consumer and the boat in at least in some countries are really have a powerful role we again got to say. People living in poverty dont have much choice but providing you are reasonably well off if you dont like what a company guns go by its cut outs its again hypocritical to say oh the way you make all your your stuff use it you know is totally environmentally unfriendly youre stealing our childrens future and then you go and spend a lot of money by never that although as you say. Many people do not have arguably the 99 percent do not have the choice as austerity has kicked in in western economies in 20 or over you know its going to get worse and bad that is the big problem also you started off with education thats important too because unless people understand the dynamics of a problem they cant make it the call choice is coming and you know i found in china actually people who believed that elephant shin bet at tasks if we you know what we say are that cant be true but if youve never seen an elephant youve never been taught anything about wild animals why shouldnt they ship that to us so you know again its education from sometimes a very basic level that helps people who can make a difference to make a difference when i was 10 years old i had them train i will go to africa i will live with wild animals and i will write books about them everybody laughed at me you want just a girl girls dont know that sort of thing. But my mother she said if you really want to do this youre going to have to work off a hard but dont give up and i know youve emphasized hope with action in the past you spoke with james baker the secretary of state for Ronald Reagan<\/a> do you think youd speak today with donald trump and secretary of state pompei o about why they should link here is shaking your head why they should understand the link between the environment and the destruction of the u. S. Economy because of her own of ours now i mean everybodys tilden and i would to be honest i just wouldnt waste my time to king to people like that because they dont want to be they dont want to be dont want to change. The minute you see when you talk about consumer advocacy in the way that you just have im sure your probably aware of k. Street in washington the lobbying street how can you fight the lobbying of fossil fuel industries that are against what you say i mean obviously the jane goodall n. G. O. S are trying their best to educate tens of thousands of children can they make the difference compared to billions of dollars of Public Relations<\/a> money Advertising Money<\/a> and arguable backhanders to politicians. Well right now i suppose the answer is probably no but just because it seems you know unlikely doesnt mean you stop trying because if you give up then youll never succeed and i still believe we have a window of time and all we can do all of us is the very best that we can and try and get a groundswell a Critical Mass<\/a> of people who understand that yes we need money to live but it goes wrong when we limit for money i mean read orleans economists who talk about the real cost of food on other materials that are coming in from other countries and when. We sort of again its the consumer who doesnt understand i mean why is this product cheap is cheap because of factory farming which is horribly cruel to animals and absolutely shocking its cheap because of child slave labor a slave chops and really not paying the right amount of money for what we buy in the west to brown to a very large extent so its like i say if we get all of these things you know theyre all interwoven and no one organization can solve everything or we can do is work as hard as we can to change just many minds as possible and to have hope that the many minds will change the way things operate because after this coronavirus if we go back to business as usual which is the goal of so many of our politicians around the world today that horrible swing to the far right then then this window of time that we have to create change its closing all the time dodging good off thank you both ever want to your favorite the last season will bring is the is going to have an affair like show. Dont miss an interview and join the other guy by following up with the facebook instagram. The world is driven by dreamers shaped by one person of those","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia601906.us.archive.org\/16\/items\/RT_20200817_040000_Going_Underground\/RT_20200817_040000_Going_Underground.thumbs\/RT_20200817_040000_Going_Underground_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240716T12:35:10+00:00"}