Democrats say 717000000000000000 are less split the difference i think to some 65000000000 and i just it just waltzes through proly apparent control or see in the the bitter fighting between the democrats and republicans militaries. And of course in this case trumps proposal to withdraw all these 12000 troops from germany has indeed been attacked by actually i mean both democrats and republicans are condemned. Trumps withdrawal and opposed thats always the case the moment theres any discussion of withdrawing u. S. Troops so many ways whether its syria again bipartisan hysteria withdraw from afghanistan by putting syria and remember. The whole story of the russian bounties on the u. S. Servicemen you know you dont mean the story only wheeled out precisely. Time when he seems like where u. S. Troops are about to leave. Just as the trunk wants to withdraw from syria we suddenly hear about the gallant cooks we must save the cars the cars are of the greatest ally in the world so i would expect at some point you know maybe next week some stories along the lines of that some russian john plot taking place in bali and putin is engineering some kind of a major crisis in john many so we mustnt absolutely mustnt. Withdraw any troops from germany the less this always fits into a pattern and of course youre absolutely right with withdrawing troops of germany in fact you know making steps to you know bring this nato this museum really lets us know those political strategic books to an end can only be a good thing i mean sadly i think were still a long way from that at least it seems like a step in that direction you know big claim you know and reading the main Mainstream Media press on this topic here never once did i come across that Public Opinion poll consistently in germany would like to see the american treat troops leave their country 75 years after the bank wishing of nazi germany but its never mentioned in the press that you know they the troops theyre just not wanted theyre not needed and and really what this gets it whats coming into for here in your 1st answer was quite eloquent is that you just have american exceptionalism against european ideas of security and theyre clashing head left. It well the mission of nato has changed because it will initially when it came to place the whole argument was a western europe was very much we can from the war and americans needed to stay there until they could be temporarily strengthened and then leave them and this was the famous quote eisenhower when he was the Supreme Commander in. No he argued that you know in one in 51 the argument for still there in 10 years this whole mission would have failed because we didnt build up their genes and then pull back well no this situation just shows strategy for understeer isnt so it union 2nd year is very much rebuilt but thats whats got before they keep purpose now its just our structure which emerged during the cold war which is the u. S. Base for security and the europeans largely to esther talk but youre also correct that there is a discrepancy between the Political Leadership and the population mean almost every year to do this poll so whos the greatest who disagrees threat to International Security come from and almost all americas allies say United States so that there is this. Is the difficulty and the relations. So i think we with that argument i think within washington you get 2 different perspectives one is trumps argument essentially you know we have to punish the germans because they will do us were told and if youre shifting the troops in iraq then youre essentially punishing them so im trying to respect that hes actually saving they dont by having this punishment and reward based on their loyalty to the United States its more from congress you get this other perspective which is you know if you alienate. You know the europeans the germans spent effectively youre handing them over to the russians and chinese that this could be a kremlin conspiracy you know i mean yes its actually very multidimensional its george i mean they ever since they got drunk talked about it when he was a candidate and now president is theres been a theory out there is that you know forcing the European Countries or you of the nato members to spend more weight in the nature of these nato members would realize well why are we spending so much money because it really isnt a threat to our security here and that would be a way for example say see if i force you to pay more you dont want to be more than you see if there is no threat you know me and they actually coming to fruition in a very near where theyll head. Yes that was the. The argument and thats and thats a very reasonable which is that you know ok you telling us that youre terribly frightened that this terrible big russian bear in the east ok fine and they some more you know but you know why are we protecting you youre the one who supposedly in the front line so when they say labby i know we said were the front line but we dont actually mean that we have spent more they said ok fine and were not going to spend any more so that was that was a reasonable argument but trump also had a deeper argument which is that europe has become an economic rival to the United States i mean it was one thing to. Build up the you know europes defenses in the 1950 s. And 160 s. But even from like the seventys on. West germany and that was a lot of the time is now becoming a serious economic rival to the United States now you know 4550 years on it we can see the results of this so that it does make very little sense for the United States to be subsidizing a power that is really an economic giant i mean this makes me a salute you know sense and the Trump Realizes this but of course you know theres a huge powerful well oiled atlanticist establishment that is absolutely hell bent on slaughtering any attempt to. Disentangle this relationship so yeah theyre theyre just theyre just too many careers built on this ok i mean the 5000 nato bureaucrats on the continent as well i mean they you know thats that in their entire future when one of the interesting things that i find interesting is that with this i mean the polls want they want to build for trump and they want american troops permanently stationed in poland again that would be against the agreements made ending. The confrontation and in europe the dissolving of the force. Doesnt poland stay standing like this its position does not really divide nato internally even more because it shows that there is no kind of unified understanding of what the alliance is supposed to do i mean this is an alliance in search of a mission and the poles are stepping up and defining it for the rest of the member countries go ahead. Well there was already a concern by when poland and others joined nato because of the cold war there was some concern among for example germany that they didnt want to go into russia they believed that there was able to ice on working relationship with them meanwhile the poles pretty much just wanted to be on the other side of the wall so a continued 1000 Russian Alliance not a solution for nato what you do the western europeans dont want to name russia as a threat and the eastern europeans want to label russia as the solution was essential to stretch egypt ambiguity in order just about democracy stable government and you know with friends to russia. And i think there are there that guarantee to us russia which is against expansionism and would trigger this security guarantee and wish to converse from being this organization for democracy to again containing russia so that was a strategic i think you need you need huge military budgets you depend european democracy im not sure i really comprehend that gentlemen im going to jump in here were going to go to a short break now to let you know you were discussion on some real news day. Thinking of getting a new puppy was we got ourselves why is it you know a girl who is trapped in a studio wired. To use a crate with him he will. Freaking out he will what is pretty much anywhere near thousands of breeding dogs are painted in the union lane conditions on poppy i mean 67 years you know theyve been locked up in caves outside you see no protection from the weather the heat you know the courtier the rain the snow the funder nothing they have no protection. Because you. Know its. 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Well im out across the uk were all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were talking about some real names. Ok george its switch gears here none of us are doctors here obviously and but were all perceptive about politics thats what we do basically for a living in one form or another in watching joe biden i mean its really its quite shocking but weve gotten down to a candidate it could be the democrats of a rally behind if tepidly that is challenged ok hes challenging and over right he in ways you know that we all know that this is it domestically this is all an anti trump gambit thats very very clear ok its not voting for joe its voting against donald trump but if we do have this fight and ministration the implications are enormous how would the outside world see this whos in charge entered into an Agency Consensus whos in charge of that i mean it would send a very ambiguous message to the International System go ahead george. Yes thats it tell you right. Whats very sad here is of course how cynical the democrats have been all of this after all bidens physical and mental deterioration well as apparent throughout the primaries everybody could see i mean the candidates themselves on the stage where seem to be sniggering at his office decrepitude yet they all running around him theyd all stand why is this because they were absolutely determined to defeat donald trump and they thought that lunch bucket joe with this suppose it links to the in industrial midwest would somehow be the one person who could be absolutely guaranteed to defeat trump now its becoming clear that this is really very problematic as people do see. That this is you know how can he last 4 years let alone 8 years so who is going to be running the country prize the outside world is concerned well there are no doubt the atlantis is establishment types were very powerful in europe who would welcome oh its great this day the rich ah no the the obama crowd all the all the safe air of hands for george or maybe even the flipside of what you just said is that an empty vessel that we can fill yes yes yes thats right so that i think i like of that i dont tell him i owe you know you know russias a rat you know we got to you know spend more here move troops in you know yeah ill go along with all that so yes no doubt. Happy about this but its a very dangerous situation because you have somebody in the oval office who really isnt up to the job so he could either make a absolutely reckless foolish decision or all of the. Vision will be made by people who have not been elected to anything and what their own agenda thats the point you know you know glenn you know historically you know we had Winston Churchill in his 2nd stint as Prime Minister he only was he exhibited mental deficiencies obviously brezhnev the soviet leader he died in power and even Ronald Reagan in the waning days of his 2nd term in office it would became became obvious that he was having some problems as well now im describing 3 individuals historically 3 important historical individuals at the end of their government Power Service ok were talking about a guy thats going in to the white house i mean that should send alarm bells should not go ahead mark. Yeah good health a key difference that its not end of his term. I agree with fear i was sent before i think that that idea of biden is why they want to bring him in because. Household name whos part of the old guard was with obama and this is very much an anti trump platform and. Message all discounting will be a return to the normal and he especially were a sense to posit that idea biden bucks the realities of this is a great difference with its cognitive abilities according to quite probably the most agree thats a sense of. The progress there as well because keep in mind that the democrats have all for the last 4 years now been criticizing the mental state i would save quite reasonably pointing to his narcissism but now theyre running a candidates roost seemingly struggling with dementia so. It does doesnt bring up a lot of moral issues so. Whats going to its all about winning now of course a whopping after he wins 1st their office. Become string together a simple sentence i think. Yes its going to be hard on president and the for the rest of the allies especially in europe theyre going to see one they like more than trump but also one not well qualified to lead so i mean again assuming she very much this and a missile. George i mean with the most loot one of the most important elements to keep the International System stable is certainty what can what can you expect i mean in this case i mean when i look at you know last 3 and a half years truman on the margins pushed back against this injury Agency Consensus but you could have both a man in the white house in january that will have no resistance whatsoever its going to it will sign you know well ill sign anything i mean that you know and then whos making those decisions that didnt. So the world you know unelected bureaucrats that like thats going to create a lot of uncertainty in my mind go ahead yes yes and what weve seen during the trump years and before is that that unelected bureaucracy is a public menace. They have been pushing their agenda they have ignored the elected president the im the one who actually ran on the platform they simply said well you know we dont care about his policies was he ran on we the people in charge because as you say we are the interAgency Consensus so if i was a dangerous situation how much more likely it will this be on the bike and i mean you know a lot of might well enjoy you have a good time you dont have to do anything you know spend time with your family you know you know let playing croquet whatever you want to there will run everything. And who are the people going to be running it i mean they will be people like. Fiona hill. All that crowd who kind of came out of the woodwork during the trump ias well quite frightening in the kind of pathological view of the well they have they will be in charge and you know this is a real serious threat to democracy i mean what is it like or having elections if the people who are running the country i dont think to do with any of these elections and they dont run on anything you know they did thats a perfect good point because it just shows you know they continue divorce between Foreign Policy issues and the democratic process ok you know one of the things i find really disturbing is that in the last 3 and a half years troops Foreign Policy is been all over the place i think thats a Fair Assessment think the fact that its been all over the place has actually created debate now mostly against him from the interAgency Consensus but in a byte in ministration we wont even have that debate will insist be is it form. He just this is completely separated off into a different realm because whoever is assuming the oval office in january will have to deal with a pandemic an economic turndown social unrest here and what i worry is like when george was alluding to is that you know going to have a small you know little cabin area will get will take care of the rest ok and you know those people taking care of the rest happen just asterisk record over the last 40 years. And i would also add that what is going to do to this ocean. Of the country to trust in the Political Class given mind of one of the reasons why people voted for trump even people who didnt care much for mr want to throw a wrench into the system because that distrust of the Political Class and the media for us take out the grown at a huge level which is very much definition of populism when people feel that alienated from the political cause. They believe that political causes work to distance from them and then y