support for it is the mists they are now fighting we ask the taliban if they're prioritising prisoners of the peace and if the 2020 u.s. presidential election could make that historic agreement a thing of the past in the wake of major nation media stories about russian bounties down this fake news by donald trump and his nato nations just because he's socialism to recover from corona virus we investigate the people's republic of the watch and other corporations arguably using the tools of socialism to benefit from covert $19.00 a ball coming up in today's going underground 1st today 75 years ago the world was carved up in a bombed out germany it's estimated that $27000000.00 russians sacrificed their lives for a victory against nazi germany here is how you case a mandated media cover the story yet isn't faced by stalin truman and touch over decide the future of your stomach if adopted by the western allies as one of the russians was in evidence. premier must know time on his arrival in meeting president truman this was the 1st occasion on which they'd met since truman became president of the united states and the portsdown conference would precede truman's detonation of the world's 1st atomic bomb over hiroshima forever leaving the human race in fear of nuclear annihilation historians across the global south believed the use of w m d's to kill untold hundreds of thousands of civilians was not to defeat fascism but to affirm us supremacies in a post war world except the usa would be defeated time and time again since i do $45.00 from cuba to vietnam and today in afghanistan where the us is longest war continues with u.k. boots on the ground like every war there has been propaganda we don't hear much now about how nature created the circumstances for $911.00 we had this brilliant idea that we were going to come to pakistan and create a force of mujahideen equip them with stinger missiles and everything else to go after the soviets in afghanistan and we were successful the soviets left afghanistan and then we said great good by leaving these trained people who were fanatical in afghanistan and pakistan leaving them well armed creating a mess frankly that at the time we didn't really recognize we were just so happy to see the soviet union fall and we thought ok fine we're ok now everything's going to be so much better now you look back the people we're fighting today we were supporting in the fight against the soviets. one of potsdam 75 years ago today carved out a post world war 2 order our next guest is linked to the post 911 order joining me via skype from doha is the taliban spokesperson so he'll show him thank you so much as i have a coming on the back of this cause of a taliban attacks going on at the moment but the u.s. army finally announcing that it is retreating it is leaving your country nato has not been counting the numbers of afghan dead since the usa began its longest war and in fact the news in nato nations is that your people your taliban people are taking russian money to kill nato soldiers what do you make of the allegations one to that actually is it is not true it is baseless allegation we are not providing for anyone part many. our people are. not there. and they are providing part that kosek uprising in our limbs. and 100. 1000. people there have been laid down do you have allowed see and it may 2nd crisis for a liberation of the country and what establishing an exam it would mean according to very near as please a minimal drum set it wasn't real information pompei i didn't mention it with mullah baradar on a recent video conference but the new york times said that they had an anonymous official the told them the taliban had received large amounts of money from russian intelligence the g.r.u. the story picked up on the state mandated b.b.c. air how can you say it's not true and is this just fake news or if it is fake news it secretly i think it has to do with the internal politics and hey thank. you it has to do with the. violators of the peace process and peace agreement signed it here and i'll have so that is why after the signing of their equipment they have made when it is kind up against him and made a trip back and accompanied him and that ultimately. subject him is it to damage in harm this peace process well i know the taliban is famous for taking down statues but do you think high different of a statue zambia black lives matter or do you think it's racism in the western media that seem to think the taliban need money to to kill an american soldier our struggle for liberation is not to fight of many we are not to them and misandry of any country and that isn't really a sleaze. thinking perception and i think it is not true we have a per i've heard our lives for the liberation of our country in far our buchalter $54.00 countries afterwards. there was about 150000 american in narco soldiers and 500000 coverlid ministrations shoulders and also 50000 of one institution militias need for that after water almost 20 years and are we near our houses are destroyed and our our children story this hour cultivation failure story that we have given our country destruction of 1000000 up millions of dollars and that's what the cost of we knew because the reason we live edition is really. richard clarke those who say that at this critical time why we have signed the agreement the year for cause is to create confusion and to dampen the peace process back to it is politically motivated it is not true well major countries of france millions perhaps billions of dollars too and say that all of a sudden democracy in afghanistan you mentioned doha where where does the taliban get its money from because though our has been an under blockade from saudi arabia you probably were there and that's all the taliban gets is money from saudi donors all these things what they see these are claims and not true where does the taliban get its money yes we have got to order she went to percent of the territory afghanistan we have access system inside the country we have. one image from the utility bills and also from. the billionaires in trade that is all the communities in merchandise entering afghanistan we have access of them because without our per our permission no we hate or of any kind will go from one province to another province those are the times our drive is so high it's not drug dealing because as the taliban is expanded and i understand it's in a very strong position now so is the opium and the heroin on the streets of european capitals of heroin any poppy cultivation they give you any increase after the. installation of the pyramid the government of the government was headed by me because i wasn't imposing on the people on the people of afghanistan sure of their status. the puck cultivation increases and over time it was the unseen a catalyst or the country how bad the marketing mission and also when we are in power we are committed to put time into poppy cultivation to end the drug trafficking so no taliban is made any money out of drug cultivation you know when israel was not a saving it is a tax penny in. from the people and the people and they got a child there and the people are giving as many because we are in control and all bill was goes it is he was the person of money some all the will really yes we are in control of god all the war the common immunization is in besieged in the main cities they have no control. who is doing it i mean how many cars i've been on this program he denied being involved in the drug trade and it's not the taliban are you accusing a british of american soldiers of growing the opium it is a i hacked maybe many elements with that there are external or internal they all of them are involved in this drug trafficking and pop cultivation because newton this 20 years who are. losing our human soul by. america america you and other western powers i do think that time the puck because you usually move and with that proportionally the drive to pickings are you so of course is there will be some who are claiming that you were full time and in fact maybe in war and. in increasing. pockets edition you see some would say they're rich taliban and they're a poet alabama now how would you look into the eyes of a poor taliban community person and say to them maybe their family had been killed by. us drone strike and tell them to accept the doha agreement and to trust the united states we are a people of our understand of sympathy that the people that we generate the people the masses understand all of us we are living. according to the means that they have their own and not rich people that are in agreement with each other we have signed with the americans i think it is in interest of the afghan people and also of the american people because the american people they got an edible exhibit come up by this time and we got to enter a vision of the country and get the independence of the country that is a book for us in after that focus on the reconstruction of afghanistan and development of understanding to do something part or own people from the past but i spirity and well being of our people so there is i think i'll work for both sides he may be seen as honorable bipartisan the door agreement then what would you say to the 10s of thousands of british relatives of those who've been killed or wounded . was there any point of britain and its soldiers going to afghanistan in the 1st place and 2003 i think there was no it isn't to go to another country and in an age that people feel that people just are the old religious our church the country if you go from above is the enemy that you kick and destroyed the religious and their houses in kill the other people the children what would they disappoint the common people in u.k. the same is our p.d. because it is our country we are all have any other country we have to to defend our country it is i want to legitimate right there are people in kashmir who say their legitimate right to live with sovereignty why why is it over between the taliban between the taliban and pakistan just the taliban not support pakistan and china or over indian. annexation of kashmir or is it over relations between pakistan and the taliban. we have a doctor said anything with that we do a lot a lot about. pollution our indian position are you pollution as a country not we have. supported that much we have discussed because we are focused on ending occupation in our own country but any of the people they have a right to go in the enter the country and the pretty india the country and can live according to the is but as the nation so how saying thank you. after the break from a coronavirus vaccine to world hunger could wal-mart's business model save the world we are the older the people's republic of wal-mart the film and also more coming up in part 2 of going underground. in brazil. one with one in the same. scene the following you can bet i'm before. them but. you know. welcome back as corona virus continues to disproportionately ravaged the worst off in society why is it that multinational companies like wal-mart and amazon have been able to weather the storm one in some cases profiting massively could there arguably socialist model be the blueprint for a new era of post pandemic human equality joining me now via skype from victorian counted to join us lee phillips his book coauthored by michelle reward ski the people's republic of wal-mart is out now lisa thanks so much for coming on your your book the people's republic of wal-mart explains how kweisi monopoly companies like supermarkets where essentially so. bland they go on to meas within gaveled lism i don't know whether you'd agree with that witnessing howell and months cabalist economies lead countless economies or reacted to coronavirus giving they read your book and they've understood the when there's an emergency you go to do things the wal-mart way yet and that's that's quite interesting what we've seen is that. for all of the discourse over last 40 years certainly a liberal argument that markets are at the. mechanism of allocation of goods and services when the crisis comes markets just are insufficient they are too slow to bear to lag or late or in many cases simply aren't producing the the items that they're needed and suddenly the state is back in vogue to plan that and that so it's not just it's certainly not left wing governments it's right wing governments every single play for just as in the case of a war certainly during the 2nd world war in the west united states all sorts of investment decision making planning investment decision making was planned by the state because the market was just too. it's too slow and it's the last you know 20 years since the sars virus came out emerged. at the neologism and viral a just particularly those rationalizing but in coronavirus or search for or arguing that there was a necessity to increase not just funding for research for horror that sector but that field also began to develop therapeutics and and and potentially vaccines but of course pharmaceutical companies have been out of the business developing vaccines for about 40 years because that scenes are just insufficiently profitable compared to drugs that for for chronic diseases say where everybody where the patient has to take that drug every day for the rest of their lives so in the end it's of the irony about a lot of service and you've actually nation discourses where there you go is cared about the corporations need irony is that corporations the pharmaceutical corporations are very reluctant to engage in and far they very high on their taxes . i'm sure they'd all deny that if you case anyone hasn't read the book either just quickly ask you to remind us about why i might have equated fundamental capitalist companies like wal-mart your mother national supermarket down the road or your multinational tech company and roll to the u.s.s.r. . well starting in around the 1920 s. there was a debate between left wing economists and right wing columnists. which is has since been known as the economic calculation debate or the social scapulars debate as to whether it's actually even mathematically possible to. your plan. today to gauge an economic planning and the conservative argument from figures like high end misses. historically was that simply once you get beyond for a particular scale. there are simply too many that are there evils within within an economy of whatever size. a certain size simply too many variables to calculate too many inputs and outputs. and that it begins to be unmanageable and so there are going to with the unmanageability is what led to the authoritarian in some of the soviet union when we argue in the book is that actually status if that's true then organizations like walmart and amazon really shouldn't work because in the case of wal-mart being wal-mart is a vast organization which is in part like all firms all companies is internally planned there's no markets an internal market where people decide how to stock shelves on the basis of marketing a higher internal market like the internal market that was introduced to do that from health service to drawing great efficiency and as i've critics. yes no absolute that's a very good point the national health service in the u.k. is an example again an example of planning on a vast scale and way and internal market mechanisms where to use it only certain. expand it if the political leaders of nato nations new liberal governments they'll be saying of course they probably haven't read your book maybe but they might then say you know this is an emergency it's like wartime communism. but you would say no this is actually something that spans peace time well i'll go beyond that and say if their argument is correct that markets are the most efficient and mechanism of allocation and why isn't it working in the emergency. and then we can flip that around on its head and say well if it works if we decided now that. that economic planning is just so far so critically superior to the markets in the emergency as well why are we not looking at planning as a mechanism for allocation and other times. if we now accept that actually this secure mechanism of allocation there's a recognition that plan planning can be efficient and what does that mean for the hundreds of millions of people who've been affected by i.m.f. and world bank free market models which themselves are based on actually emergency conditions if there is a time of famine that we must have contract competition we must have internal markets because only then can humanity benefit. well again i think the the the response from. so many governments in the in the in the wake of the pandemic to engage in economic planning is proof that the and so why is it the. most people in the world would think it is the free market that is innovative is efficient and creates the best outcomes for human beings well it's twofold one has a lot of myth making around that that the idea is that that entrepreneurs are incredibly. innovative and coming up with great ideas but the reality is that the vast majority of. innovations let's say for example i mean marion mascot is the accounting american ought to be. i mean she makes the argument reckoning that you know pretty much about the dozen or so technologies that are found in your in your smart phone. were in fact built by the by the pentagon we in fact and most you know can. be most by technology and again the. the innovations there are. funded and developed within the public sector either at university laboratories or government laboratories and for technology after technology to technology clean technology nanotechnology all of these the vast majority of the innovation of the last 56 years has been found in the public sector the reason for that is that. market actors are actually incredibly risky alerts they are. great risk takers at all if they cannot see the possibility of. return on investment these are profit they will be reluctant to invest in that whereas the state has no profit incentive the state can decide well we don't know whether this is going to work or not but it's probably good for society so we're going to try it out and that's why you know basic research for example the private sector doesn't wasn't 0 basic research almost all basic research is performed by universities well obviously that has implications for the multi-billionaire as hoover made lots of money during coronavirus and you make money when it's not coronavirus and say that it's their risks they take that mean they should learn so much how dangerous is coronavirus to the entire model of capitalism then because do you think the walmart's of this world the amazons of this world are going to understand that people may have caught on to the fact that actually the most efficient to methods for organizing humanity are planned ones and remarkable and well the crucial thing in distinction that we make in the book is that. planning is just the necessary things that condition for an egalitarian society for a just society it is not a sufficient condition i mean the other parent is ancient egypt where class there wasn't a market economy there that was largely a slave society planning can be used or carried in fashion as well i mean the chinese find this party engages and serve a mixture of market. market mechanisms within their society and their real storage area in economic planning but we want to see is in the limitation of the authority as an authoritarian ism of the chinese communist party of the air the ones in turkey or black americans of the world we want to be democratically that the economic planning has to be generally democratic side. and that's that's the next step and so when donald trump in the initial stages of the pandemic stood there flanked by c.e.o.'s of big multinational companies. is that a mixed message because we don't really understand whether those multinationals are in fact internally planned we don't know and dialogues within their companies all one has as much of the democrat left said a sign of corruption in private privateering. very much the latter i mean a response to the coronavirus has been another disaster partially. a lot of it does come down to corruption and incompetence but part of that is that we simply haven't learned the lesson that even you know his conservative colleagues across the atlantic boris johnson. you know nobody suggested it's not a free market here and yet his response to the coronavirus from the very 1st base as being much more search space center. than donald trump. do you think the stigma of u.s.s.r. style planning will slowly deteriorate and. finally go away as environmental catastrophe becomes more and more apparent i think that the the crucial lesson that we need to take from the soviet union was not the planning led to authoritarianism but if you actually look at the economic history of the soviet union that it was the authoritarian isn't it was that the author karen is my undermines the the act on the planning. and we have many examples of planning that you know wal-mart is an example of planning task and it worked amazon is an example plans ask how that works. the n.h.s. privately with the introduction of the internal market and even still to this day despite that those unfortunates developments it remains a an enormous entities that these engage in planning of the myriad different. elements on the days their faces also work. i think perhaps the pandemic that might break it bring an end to their certainly a liberal discourse as the free market is the only possible efficient mechanism the power station. thank you. thank you that's over the show will be back on monday if you don't capitalism groan of ours and call the jews way with iconic character. until then wash your hands join the underground you twitter facebook instagram and . look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. must obey the orders given by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the 1st law. for should be very careful about official intelligence at the point over the. trust of the fia. on theories jumps in with artificial intelligence resummon. must protect its own existence as. the london police officer is suspended off to video a much as open meeting on the back of a black man he was arresting also ahead. of the. pressure mounts on the israeli prime minister over his pandemic performance amid ongoing corruption claims. on the united states clocks up $77000.00 new coronavirus cases in just a single day its previous rapporteur it comes as donald trump's rating seem to be plummeting in response to his handling of the pandemic.

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