a resurgence of the us is longest war which followed u.s. u.k. support for it is the mists they are now fighting we asked the taliban if their prioritising prisoners of the peace and if the 2020 u.s. presidential election could make a historic agreement a thing of the past in the wake of major nation media stories about russian bounties this fake news by dole trump and his nato nations just because he's socialism to recover from coronavirus we investigate the people's republic of b. and other corporations arguably using the tools of socialism to benefit from covert 19 oliseh ball coming up in today's going underground of us today 75 years ago the world was caught up in a bombed out germany it's estimated that 27000000 russians sacrificed their lives for a victory against nazi germany here is how you case a mandated media covered the story. over the side of. your stomach if adopted by the western allies as one of the russians was in evidence. from the time on his arrival in meeting president truman this was the 1st occasion on which they'd met since truman became president of the united states and the portsdown conference would precede truman's detonation of the world's 1st atomic bomb over hiroshima forever leaving the human race in fear of nuclear annihilation historians across the global south believed the use of w m d's to kill untold hundreds of thousands of civilians was not to defeat fascism but to affirm u.s. supremacies in a postwar world except the usa would be defeated time and time again since i do $45.00 from cuba to vietnam and today in afghanistan where the us is longest war continues with u.k. boots on the ground like every war there has been propaganda we don't hear much now about how nature created the circumstances for $911.00 we had this brilliant idea that we were going to come to pakistan and create a force of mujahideen equip them with stinger missiles and everything else to go after the soviets inside afghanistan and we were successful the soviets left afghanistan and then we said great good by leaving these trained people who were fanatical in afghanistan and pakistan leaving them well armed creating a mess frankly that at the time we didn't really recognize we were just so happy to see the soviet union fall and we thought ok fine we're ok now everything's going to be so much better now you look back the people we're fighting today we were supporting in the fight against the soviets. one of potsdam 75 years ago today carved out a post world war 2 order our next guest is linked to the post 911 order joining me via skype from doha is the taliban spokesperson so he'll show him thank you so much as i have a coming on the back of the scores of taliban attacks going on at the moment but the u.s. army finally announcing that it is retreating it is leaving your country nato has not been counting the numbers of afghan dead since the usa began its longest war and in fact the news in nato nations is that your people your taliban people are taking russian money to kill nato soldiers what do you make of the allegations. to that actually is it is not true it is baseless allegation we are not grow up fighting for any one part many. our people are. not there. and they are providing part that a 2nd fighting in power comes up and $100.00. 1000. people there have been laid down do you have allowed see and it may 2nd crisis for a liberation of the country and what establishing going to semi would mean according to very near as please a minimal drum set it wasn't real information pompei i didn't mention it with mullah baradar on a recent video conference but the new york times said that they had an anonymous official the told them the taliban had received large amounts of money from russian intelligence the g.r.u. the story picked up on the state mandated b.b.c. air how can you say it's not true and is this just fake news or if it is fake news secretly i think it has to do with the internal politics and hey thank. you it has to do with the. violators of the peace process and peace agreement signed it here and i'll have so that is why after the signing of their equipment they have made when it is kind up it gave him and made a trip back and accompanied him and that ultimately. subject him is it to damage in harm this peace process well i know the taliban is famous for taking down statues but do you think high different ever statues m.b.m. black lives matter or do you think it's racism and the western media that seems to think the taliban need money to to kill an american soldier our struggle for liberation is not to far to many we are not to them and missing of any country and that isn't really a sleaze. thinking perception and i think it is not true we have our per i've heard our lives for the liberation of our country and followed our buchalter $54.00 countries afterwards. there was about 150000 american in now 2 soldiers and 500000 coverlid ministrations shoulders and also 50000 of one institution militias need for that after water almost 20 years and are we near our houses destroyed and our or our child destroyed is our cultivation a failure story that we have given our country destruction of 1000000 abra millions of dollars and that's what the cost of we knew because of the reason we live edition is really. initiative are those who say that at this critical time why we have signed the agreement the year for cause is to create confusion and to dampen the peace process back to it is politically motivated it is not true well major countries of france millions perhaps billions of dollars too and say that it's all about starting democracy in afghanistan imagine doha where where does the taliban get its money from because though our has been an under blockade from saudi arabia you probably were there and that's all the taliban gets is money from saudi donors all these things what they see these are claims and not true where does the taliban get its money yes we have come true or she went to percent of the territory afghanistan we have access system inside the country we have. one payment from the utility bills and also from. the billionaires in trade that is all the communities and merchandise entering afghanistan we have access of them because without our per our permission no we hate or of any kind will go from one province to another province those are the times on the draw it is so it's not drug dealing because as the taliban is expanded and i understand it's in a very strong position now so is the opium and the heroin on the streets of european capitals of heroin any poppy cultivation they give you any increase after the. installation of the pyramid the bottom in of the government was headed by me because i wasn't imposing on the people on the people of afghanistan sure of their status. the puck cultivation increases and over time it forces and xenical to it or the country we have bad enough pocketing mission and also when we are in power we are committed to put time into poppy cultivation to end the drug trafficking so no taliban made any money out of drug cultivation you know when israel was not a saving it is a tax penny in. from the people and the people and they got a child there the people are giving as many because we are in control and all bill was goes it is he was the person of money some all the will really is yes we are in control of god all the war the common immunization is the besiege in the main cities they have no control. who is doing it i mean how mad cuz i've been on this program he denied being involved in the drug trade and is not the taliban are you accusing a british and american soldiers of growing the opium it is a i hacked maybe many elements with that there are external or internal they all of them are involved in this drug trafficking and pop culture mission because new to this 20 year who are. losing i did you install by. america america you and other western powers i do think that time the puck because you usually move and with that proportionally the drive to pickings are real so of course is there will be some who are claiming that we were full time and in fact maybe in war and. in increasing. pockets edition you see some would say there are rich taliban and their poet alabama now how would you look into the eyes of a poor taliban community person and say to them maybe their family had been killed by. us drone strike and tell them to accept the doha agreement and to trust the united states we are a people of our understand of sympathy that the people that we generate the people the masses understand all of us we are living. according to the means that they have their own and not rich people that are in agreement with each other we have signed with the americans i think it is in interest of the afghan people and also of the american people because the american people they got an edible exam to come up by this time and we got to enter a vision of the country and get the independence of the country that is a book for us in after that focus a little construction of afghanistan and development of understanding to do something part or own people from the past but i spirity and well being of our people so there is i think i'll work for both sides he may be seen as honorable by parties to the door agreement then what would you say to the 10s of thousands of british relatives of those who've been killed or wounded. was there any point of britain and its soldiers going to afghanistan in the 1st place and 2003 i think there was no it isn't to go to another country and in an age that people feel that people are destroyed the religious our church the country if you go from above is the enemy that you can hit and destroyed the religious and their houses in kill the other people the children what would they disappoint the common people in u.k. the same is our p.d. because it is our country we are all have any other country we have to to defend our country it is i want to legitimate right there are people in kashmir who say their legitimate right to live with sovereignty why why is it over between the taliban between the taliban and pakistan just the taliban not support pakistan and china or over indian. annexation of kashmir or is it over relations between pakistan and the taliban. we have docs said anything with we do a lot about. you is bullish on our indian position are you pollution as a country not really have. supported that much we have discussed because we are focused on ending occupation in our own country but anywhere the people they have a right to go in the enter the country and the free india the country and can live according to the it is but as a nation so how saying thank you. after the break from a coronavirus reaction to world hunger could more books business model save the world we also the author of the people's republic of war will have to leave for also more coming up in part through of going on the ground. in. this politically impossible in the united states. eating was anything there's an industry in iraq. that makes a lot of money. and going to say over and over again we know what it feels to die in these not seeing much. for one day and eating less is very very bad for business it doesn't make anybody rich people eat less sleep. on my hands in my. 20 bags of a time about what it was it was a bit. more about the. one with more than the side of the. scene that are going to fit in but i'm before. him by the. by now i'm by the i now move on. to. welcome back as corona virus continues to disproportionately ravaged the worst off in society why is it that multinational companies like war. modern amazon have been able to weather the storm well in some cases profiting massively and could their arguably socialist model be the blueprint for a new era of post by endemic human equality joining me now via skype from victorian calendars author and journalist lee phillips whose book coauthored by michel or was he the people's republic of wal-mart is out now leaving so much for coming on your your book the people's republic of wal-mart explains how kweisi monopoly companies like supermarkets where essentially soviet style bland they go on to meis within gabaa lism i don't know where the you'd agree with that witnessing howell and violence cabalist economies lead capitalist economies are reacted to coronavirus doing they read your book and they've understood the when there's an emergency you've got to do things the wal-mart way yet and that's that's quite interesting what we've seen is that. for all of the discourse over last 40 years certainly a liberal argument that markets are at the. mechanism of allocation of goods and services when the crisis comes markets just are insufficient they are too slow too too laggard late more in many cases simply aren't producing the items that they're needed and certainly state it's back in vogue to plant that and that so it's not just it's certainly not left wing governments it's right and governments are very single flavor just as in the case of a war certainly during the 2nd world war in the west united states all sorts of investment decision making planning and investment decision making was planned by the state because the market was just too. it's too slow and it's the last you know 20 years since the sars virus came out emerged. to be neologism and viral and just particularly those nationalizing but in corona virus or search were already arguing that there was a necessity to increase not just funding for research for for that sector but for that that field also to begin to develop therapeutics and and and potentially vaccines but of course pharmaceutical companies have been out of the business developing vaccines for about 40 years because back scenes are just insufficiently profitable compared to drugs that for for chronic diseases say where everybody where the patient has to take that drug every day for the rest of their lives so in the end it's of the irony about a lot of service and he'd actually nation that's courses where there you go is cared about the corporations need irony is that corporations the pharmaceutical corporations are very reluctant to engage in and far they very high on their taxes . i'm sure they'd all deny that if you case anyone hasn't read the book either just quickly ask you to remind us about why i might have equated fundamental capitalist companies like wal-mart your mother national supermarket down the road or your multinational tech company and ole to the u.s.s.r. . well starting in around the 1920 s. there was a debate between left wing economists and right wing columnists. which is has since been known as the economic calculation debate or the social scapulars debate as to whether it's actually even mathematically possible to. your plan. today to gauge an economic planning and the conservative argument from figures like hyatt and mrs. historically was that simply once you get beyond for a particular scale. there are simply too many that are there evils within within an economy of whatever size. a certain size simply too many variables to calculate too many inputs and outputs. and that it begins to be unmanageable and that and so there are going to wish that this unmanageability is what led to the authoritarian in some of the soviet union when we argue in the book is that actually status if that's true then organizations like walmart and amazon really shouldn't work because in the case of wal-mart being wal-mart is a vast organization which is in part like all firms all companies is internally planned there's no markets internal market you know where people decide how to stock shelves on the basis of marketing your internal market like the internal market that was introduced to do that for health services to drawing great efficiency and as i've critics. yes no absolute that's a very good point the national health service in the u.k. is an example again an example of planning on a vast scale and weigh in internal market mechanisms where to see it only certain. expand it is if the political leaders of nato nations new liberal governments they'll be saying of course they probably haven't read your book maybe but they might then say you know this is an emergency it's like wartime communism. but you would say no this is actually something that spans peace time well i'll go beyond that and say as if their argument is correct that markets are the most efficient and mechanism of allocation and why isn't it working in the emergency. and then we can flip that around on its head and say well if it works if we decided now that. that economic planning is just so far so critically superior to the markets in the emergency as well why are we not looking at planning as a mechanism for allocation and other times. if we now accept that actually this secure mechanism of allocation there's a recognition that plan planning can be efficient and what does that mean for the hundreds of millions of people who've been affected by i.m.f. and world bank free market models which themselves are based on actually emergency conditions if there is a time of famine that we must have contract competition we must have internal markets because only then can humanity. from so many governments and in the way that i need to engage in economic planning is proves that the sense and so why is it that. most people in the world would think it is the free market that is innovative is efficient and creates the best outcomes for human beings well it's true it's twofold one it's got a lot of myth making around that that the idea that that entrepreneurs are incredibly. innovative and coming up with you know great ideas but the reality is that the vast majority of. innovation let's say for example i mean mary in mexico the italian american tour. i mean she makes the argument reckoning that you know pretty much about the dozen or so technologies that are found in your in your smart phone. were in fact built by the by the pentagon we in fact and most. most by technology and again. the innovations there are. funded and developed within the public sector either at university laboratories or government laboratories and for technology after technology to technology clean technology nanotechnology all of these the vast majority of the innovation of the last 56 years has been found in the public sector the reason for that is that. market actors are actually incredibly risky alerts they are. great risk takers at all if they cannot see the possibility of. the return on investment these are profit they will be reluctant to invest in that where is the state has no profit incentive to stay can decide well we don't know whether this is going to work or not but it's probably good for society so we're going to try it out and that's why you know basic research for example the private sector doesn't wasn't 0 basic research almost all basic research is performed by universities well obviously that has implications for the multi-billionaire as hoover made lots of money during coronavirus and you make money when it's not coronavirus and say that it's their risks they take that mean they should learn so much how dangerous is coronavirus to the entire model of capitalism then because do you think the walmart's of this world the amazons of this world are going to understand that people may have caught on to the fact that actually the most efficient methods for organizing humanity are planned ones and remarkable and well the crucial thing in distinction that we make in the book is that. planning is just the necessary things that condition for an egalitarian society for a just society it is not a sufficient condition i mean the other parent is ancient egypt where class there wasn't a market economy there that was largely a slave society planning can be used or carrying fashion as well i mean the chinese find this party engages and serve a mixture of market. market mechanisms within their society and their real storage area in economic planning but we want to see is in the limitation of the authority as an authoritarian ism of the chinese communist party of the air the ones in turkey or black americans of the world we want to be democratic leaders of the economic planning have to be generally democrats. and that's that's the next step and so when donald trump in the initial stages of the pandemic stood there flanked by c.e.o.'s of big multinational companies is that a mixed message because we don't really understand whether those multinationals are in fact internally planned they don't know and dialogues with in their companies all one has as much of the democrat left said a sign of corruption and private privateering. very much the latter i mean a response to the coronavirus has been another disaster partially. a lot of it does come down to corruption and incompetence but part of that is the simply haven't learned the lesson that even you know his conservative colleagues across the atlantic boris johnson. you know nobody suggested it's not a free market here and yet his response to the coronavirus from the very 1st base as being much more search state centric. than donald trump. do you think the stigma of u.s.s.r. style planning will slowly deteriorate and. finally go away as environmental catastrophe becomes more and more apparent i think that the the crucial lesson that we need to take from the soviet union was not the planning led to authoritarianism but if you actually look at the economic history of the soviet union that it was the authoritarian isn't that the author karen is my undermines the planning. and we have many examples of planning that well you know wal-mart is an example of planning task and it works amazon is an example of planning was asking how that works. the n.h.s. private it was the introduction of the internal market and even still to this day despite that those unfortunate developments it remains a an enormous entities that these engage in planning of the myriad different. elements under days their faces also works. i think perhaps the pandemic that might break it bring an end to their certainly a liberal discourse as the free market is the only possible efficient mechanism the politicians. thank you. thank you that's over the show will be back on monday if you don't capitalism grown a virus and carlito's way with iconic character actor luis because until then wash to join the underground you through twitter facebook instagram and. headlines an r.t.a. a london police officer is suspended after a video emerges of him kneeling on the neck of a black man he was handcuffed. nationwide debate on the use of. also to. protests in jerusalem as pressure mounts on the prime minister there over his handling of the corona virus outbreak and his own corruption powerful and despite the us having the most coronavirus cases in 2 days of record breaking new infections this week alone donald trump pushes ahead with getting students back into class within weeks igniting a rock over schooling. every other.

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