covert $90.00 a ball coming up in today's going underground 1st today 75 years ago the world was carved up in a bombed out germany it's estimated that $27000000.00 russians sacrificed their lives for a victory against nazi germany here is how you case a mandated media cover the story yet is the place for stalin truman and touch over the decide the future of your stomach if adopted by the western allies as one of the russians was in evidence. the premier must now time on his arrival in meeting president truman this was the 1st occasion on which they'd met since truman became president of the united states and the potsdam conference would precede truman's detonation of the world's 1st atomic bomb over hiroshima forever leaving the human race in fear of nuclear annihilation historians across the global south believed the use of w m d's to kill untold hundreds of. thousands of civilians was not to defeat fascism but to affirm u.s. supremacy in a post war world except the usa would be defeated time and time again since i do $45.00 from cuba to vietnam and today in afghanistan where the us is longest war continues with u.k. boots on the ground like every war there has been propaganda we don't hear much now about how nature created the circumstances for 911 we had this brilliant idea that we were going to come to pakistan and create a force of mujahideen equip them with stinger missiles and everything else to go after the soviets inside afghanistan and we were successful the soviets left afghanistan and then we said great good by leaving these trained people who were fanatical in afghanistan and pakistan leaving them well armed creating a mess frankly that at the time we didn't really recognize we were just so happy to see the soviet union fall and we thought ok fine we're ok now everything's going to be so much better now you look back the people we're fighting today we were supporting in the fight against the soviets. one of potsdam 75 years ago today carved out a post world war 2 order our next guest is linked to the post 911 order joining me via skype from doha is the taliban spokesperson so he'll show him thank you so much as i have a coming on the back of this cause of a taliban attacks going on at the moment but the u.s. army finally announcing that it is retreating it is leaving your country nato has not been counting the numbers of afghan dead since the usa began its longest war and in fact the news in nato nations is that your people your taliban people are taking russian money to kill nato soldiers what do you make of the allegations. won't do that actually is it is not true it is baseless allegation we are not providing for anyone part many. our people are. not there. and they are fighting part that a 2nd crime scene and how it ends up and $100.00. 1001 people there have been it down do you have allowed see and it may 2nd crisis for a look at the country and what establishing an exam it would mean according to very near as please a minimal drum set it wasn't real information pompei i didn't mention it with mahler. on a recent video conference but the new york times said that they had an anonymous official the told them the taliban had received large amounts of money from russian intelligence the g.r.u. the story picked up on the state mandated b.b.c. air how can you say it's not true and is this just fake news or if it is fake news secretly i think it has to do with the internal politics and say thank. you it has to do with the. violators of the peace process and peace agreement signed it here and i'll have so that is why after the signing of their equipment they have made weariest kind up against him and made a trip back and accompanied him and that ultimately. subject him is it to damage in harm this peace process well i know the taliban is famous for taking down statues but do you think high different obvious that isn't being black lives matter or do you think it's racism and the western media that seems to think the taliban need money to to kill an american soldier our straggle for liberation is not to far to many we are not to them and missing of any country and that is really a sleaze. thinking perception and i think it is not true we have our per i've heard our lives for the liberation of our country and for our border $54.00 countries afterwards. there was about 150000 american in narco soldiers and 500000 coverlid ministrations shoulders and also 50000 of one institution militias need for that their water almost 20 years and are we near our houses destroyed and our our child destroyed is our cultivation a failure story that we have given our country destruction of 1000000 abra millions of dollars and that's what the cost of we knew because of the reason we live edition is really. initiative are those who say that at this critical time why we have signed the agreement the year for cause is to create confusion and to dampen the peace process back to it is politically motivated it is not true well major countries are france millions perhaps billions of dollars too and say that all of a sudden democracy in afghanistan you imagine doha where where does the taliban get its money from because though our has been an under blockade from saudi arabia you probably were there and that's all the taliban gets is money from saudi donors all these things what they see is the these are claims and not true where does the taliban get its money yes we have got through or she went to percent of the territory afghanistan we have access system inside the country we have. one payment from the utility bills and also from. the billionaires in trade that is all the communities and much children eyes entering afghanistan we have access of them because without our per our permission no we hate or of any kind will go from one province to another province those are the times on the draw it is so it's not drug dealing because as the taliban is expanded and i understand it's in a very strong position now so is the opium and the heroin on the streets of european capitals of heroin any poppy cultivation they give you any increase after the. installation of the pyramid the border made of the government was headed by me because i wasn't imposing on the people on the people of afghanistan sure that started. the puck cultivation increases and over time it forces and xenical to it or the country we have bad enough pocketing mission and also when we are in power we are committed to put time into poppy cultivation to end the drug trafficking so no taliban is made any money out of drug cultivation you know no $1.00 is really proud of what that is saving it is a tax penny in. from the people and the people and they got a child there and the people are giving as many because we are in control and all do was lose it and see what the percent of money some all the will really is yes we are in control of that all the war the common immunization is the besieged in the main cities they have no control. who is doing it i mean how many cars i've been on this program he denied being involved in the drug trade and is not the taliban are you accusing a british of american soldiers of growing the opium it is a i hacked maybe many elements with that there are external or internal they all of them are involved in this drug trafficking and pop cultivation because new in this 20 year you are. losing i did you install by year. america america you and other western powers i do think that time the puck because you usually move and with that proportionally the drive to pickings are real so of course there will be some who are claiming that you were full time and in fact maybe in war and. in increasing. pockets edition you see some would say there are rich taliban and there are a poet alabama now how would you look into the eyes of a poor taliban community person and say to them maybe their family had been killed by. us drone strike and tell them to accept the doha agreement and to trust the united states we are a people of our understand of simplicity that the people that we generate the people the masses understand all of us we are living. according to the means that they have their own and not rich people that i think it means we have we have signed with america and i think it is in interest of the afghan people and also of the american people because the american people they got an edible exhibit come up by this time and we got to enter a vision of the country and the independence of the country that is a book for us in after that focus on the reconstruction of afghanistan and development of understanding to do some think our own people from the past but i spirity and will being of our people so there is i think i'll work for both sides it may be seen as on arrival by parties to the door agreement then what would you say to the 10s of thousands of british relatives of those who've been killed or wounded. was there any point of britain and its soldiers going to afghanistan in the 1st place and 2003 i think there was no it isn't to go to another country and in an age that people feel that people are destroyed the religious our church the country if you go from above is the enemy that you can hit and destroyed the other religious and their houses in kill the other people the children what would the response the common people in u.k. the same is our feeling because it is our country we are all have any other country we have to to defend our country it is i want to legitimate right there are people in kashmir who say their legitimate right is to live with sovereignty why why is it over between the taliban between the taliban and pakistan just the taliban not support pakistan and china are over indian. annexation of kashmir is it over relations between pakistan and the taliban. doc said anything with that with the larger about. your position are india in position are you pollution as a country not we have. supported that much we have discussed because we are focused on ending occupation in our own country but anywhere the people. have a right to go in the enter the country and the free india the country and can live according to the the nation so how saying thank you. after the break from a coronavirus vaccine to world hunger could wal-mart's business model save the world we are the author of the people's republic of wall of the philippines also more coming up in part through of going underground. this politically impossible in the united states to advise eating was said to anything that has a industry. that makes a lot of money. and going to say over and over again we know what it is it means not much. for one thing eating less is very very bad for distance it doesn't make anybody rich if people eat less. during the vietnam war u.s. forces also bomb to neighboring laos it was a secret war. and for years the american people did not know. how much it is officially the most heavily bombed country per capita. human history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country jordyn wieber. even today kids in laos full victim to bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for the tragedy in laos won't help to the people need in that little land of mines. welcome back as corona virus continues to disproportionately ravage the worst off in society why is it the multinational companies like wal-mart and amazon have been able to weather the storm well in some cases profiting massively and could their arguably socialist model be the blueprint for a new era of post by endemic human equality joining me now via skype from victorian calendar is author and journalist lee phillips whose book coauthored by michelle or a war ski the people's republic of wal-mart is out now leaving so much for coming on your your book the people's republic of wal-mart explains how kweisi monopoly companies like supermarkets where essentially soviet style blandly connolly's within galba lism i don't know where the you'd agree with that witnessing howell advance cabalist economies lead capitalist economies are reacted to coronavirus doing they read your book and they've understood the when there's an emergency you've got to do things the wal-mart way yet and that's that's quite interesting what we've seen is that. for all of the discourse of the last 40 years certainly a liberal argument that markets are at the. mechanism of allocation of goods and services when the crisis comes markets just are insufficient they are too slow too too laggard late or in many cases simply aren't producing the items that they're needed and certainly state it's back in vogue to plant that and that so it's not just it's certainly not left wing governments it's right wing and governments are very single flavor just as in the case of a war certainly during the 2nd world war in the west united states all sorts of investment decision making planning and investment decision making was planned by the state because the market was just too. it's too slow and it's the last you know 20 years since the sars virus came out emerged. at the may ologists and viral adjust particularly those nationalizing but in corona virus or search were already arguing that there was a necessity to increase not just funding for research for for that sector but for that that field also to begin to develop therapeutics and and and potentially vaccines but of course pharmaceutical companies have been out of the business developing vaccines for about 40 years because that scenes are just insufficiently profitable compared to drugs that for for chronic diseases say where everybody where the patient has to take that drug every day for the rest of their lives so in the edge of the eye really about a lot of service and he'd actually nation it's courses where there you go is cared about the corporations need irony is that corporations the pharmaceutical corporations are very reluctant to engage in and far they very high on their taxes . i'm sure they'd all deny that if you case anyone hasn't read the book either just quickly ask you to remind us about why i might have equated fundamental capitalist companies like wal-mart your multinational supermarket down the road or your multinational tech company and ole to the u.s.s.r. . well starting in around the 1920 s. there was a debate between left wing economists and right wing columnists. which is has since been known as the economic calculation debate or the social scale collation debate as to whether it's actually even mathematically possible to. your plan. to gauge an economic planning and the conservative argument from figures like hyatt and mrs. historically was that simply once you get beyond for a particular scale. there are simply too many that are there evils within within an economy of whatever size. a certain size simply too many variables to calculate too many inputs and outputs. and that it begins to be unmanageable and so there are going to with the unmanageability is what led to the authoritarian in some of the soviet union well we argue in the book is that actually status if that's true then organizations like walmart and amazon really shouldn't work because in the case of wal-mart being wal-mart is a vast organization which is in part like all firms all companies is internally planned there's no markets an internal market that you know where people decide how to stock shelves on the basis of marketing your internal market is like the internal market that was introduced to do that for health services to drawing great efficiency and as i've critics. yes no absolute that's a very good point the national health service in the u.k. is an example again an example of planning on a vast scale and weigh in internal market mechanisms where to use it only certain. expand it if the political leaders of nato nations new liberal governments they'll be saying of course they probably haven't read your book maybe but they might then say you know this is an emergency it's like wartime communism. but you would say no this is actually something that spans peace time well i'll go beyond that and say if their argument is correct that the markets are the most efficient and mechanism of allocation and why isn't it working in the emergency. and then we can flip that around on its head and say well if it works if we decided now that that. economic planning is just so far so incredibly superior to the markets in the mergence as well why are we not looking at planning as a mechanism for allocation and other times. if we now accept that actually this secure mechanism of allocation there's a recognition that plan planning can be efficient and what does that mean for the hundreds of millions of people who've been affected by i.m.f. and world bank free market models which themselves are based on actually emergency conditions if there is a time of famine that we must have contract competition we must have internal markets because only then can humanity benefit well again i think the the response from so many governments in the in the way that i need to engage in economic planning is proves that thesis and so why is it that. most people in the world would think it is the free market that is innovative is efficient and creates the best outcomes for human beings. well it's true it's twofold one it's got a lot of myth making around that that the idea that that entrepreneurs are incredibly . innovative and coming up with you know great ideas but the reality is that the vast majority of. innovation let's say for example i mean mary in mexico the italian american. i mean she makes the argument rectally that you know pretty much about the dozen or so technologies that are found in your in your smart phone. were in fact built by the by the pentagon we in fact and most you know can. be most by technology and again the. the innovations there are. funded and developed within the public sector either at university laboratories or government laboratories and for technology after technology to technology clean technology nanotechnology all of these the vast majority of the innovation of the last 56 years has been found in the public sector the reason for that is that. market actors are actually incredibly risky alerts they are. great risk takers at all if they cannot see the possibility of. the return on investment these are profit they will be reluctant to invest in that whereas the state has no profit incentive the state can decide well we don't know whether this is going to work or not but it's probably good for society so we're going to try it out and that's why you know basic research for example the private sector doesn't wasn't 0 basic research almost all basic research is performed by universities well obviously that has implications for the multi-billion as who made lots of money during coronavirus and you make money when it's not coronavirus and say that it's the risks they take that mean they should earn so much. how dangerous is coronavirus to the entire model of capitalism then because do you think the walmart's of this world the amazons of this world are going to understand that people may have caught on to the fact that actually the most efficient methods for organizing humanity are planned ones and remarkable and well the crucial thing in distinction that we make in the book is that. planning is just the necessary things that in addition already gathered here in society very just society it is not a sufficient condition i mean the pyramid of ancient egypt where there wasn't a market economy there that was largely a slave society so planning can be used not the ordinary in fashion as well i mean the the chinese find this party engages in sort of a mixture of market. market mechanisms within their society and their e authoritarian economic planning what we want to see is an elimination of the authority of them but our parents and of the chinese communist party of the airlines and turkey or latin americans of the world we want it to be democratically the that economic planning has to be generally democratic. and that's that's the next step and so when donald trump in the initial stages of the pandemic stood there flanked by c.e.o.'s of big multinational companies. is that a mixed message because we don't really understand whether those multinationals are in fact internally planned they don't have internal law gets within their companies or was it as a bunch of the democrats said a sign of corruption and private privateering. very much latter i mean trump's response to the coronavirus has been an utter disaster partially. a lot of it does come down to corruption and incompetence but part of it is that he simply hasn't learned the lesson that even you know his conservative colleagues across the atlantic boris johnson you know nobody would suggest he's not a free marketeer and yet his response to the coronavirus from the very 1st days as being much more search state senator. and. now donald trump do you think the stigma of u.s.s.r. style planning will slowly deteriorate and finally go away as environmental catastrophe becomes more and more apparent i think that the the crucial lesson that we need to take from the soviet union was not that planning led to our parents but if you actually look at the economic history of of the soviet union it was the upper air innocent it was that the authoritarianism undermined the the economic planning. and we have many examples of planning that you know wal-mart is an example of planning fast and that works amazon is an example of planning in fact that works. the n.h.s. private to the introduction of the internal market and even still to this day despite that those unfortunate developments it remains a an enormous entities that these engage in planning of a myriad of different. elements on the days their faces also works. i think perhaps the pandemic that might break the brain and then too there's certainly a little discourse is the free market is the only possible efficient mechanism the palpation. phillips thank you. if you. join the underground facebook. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race. dramatic development only mostly. i don't see how that will be successful very. london police officer is suspended after video. also ahead. protests. there over his handling of the. corruption. and despite the us having the most cases. breaking new infections this week alone pushes ahead with getting students back in class with. every other country has circuits and schools except the united states.

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