grap denies our sweet tooth how to deal with that 19 without becoming its accomplice to discuss that i'm now joined by phil moffatt on and paul larson 2 doctors who popularized the expression that gentlemen it's so good to talk to your stash away at these times i mean they couldn't have been a more oprah to moment you describe as the main subject of your work thanks for having us this is this is about an important topic now dr mastodon let me start with you are. like me many of our of your is now stuck at home and i see you. why do most travel and ways of dealing with things like it would be hiding yourself some slack when it comes to food choices and that's perfectly understandable we are deprived of so many levels socially physically some of us i deprived of fresh air and sunlight so i think people want to compensate for that but i see in that you would say that loading up on sugar is probably do worse thing one can do at this time am i right it is absolutely right and it's one of the reasons we got here because all that sugar has created excess body fat and the majority of people worldwide and that impairs immunity and therefore makes a small wrong so infection and during this period when we're were isolated in our homes. we tend to want to eat more sugar and sugar you know refined carbohydrates turn to sugar so that's a that's really the worst thing people can do now that you'll be you have long been talking about the danger of being over fat going to be have we will discuss that if great detail but before that it seems that among people who are particularly hard hit by calling it one thing to many people with either it's actually diabetes or various kinds of metabolic diseases so it seems that. with common $1000.00 in particular people with metabolic problems far more susceptible or is it always the case with their virus. no i mean the data that's coming in is is clearly is is just very clear that it's those there are. symptoms of overfat so there have co-morbidities and it's those individuals that are coming into the hospitals it's those individuals that are set leaving us and it's ultimately because they have this metabolic dysregulation that's there were medical account. you know dr phil's point this is going to cause mostly too much sugar is the big picture right there the new more viruses in the in the future that we're not accustomed to and you know we need to get the world health that document to tell and at many stein scientists i talked to about base near virus seem to be almost in a lot where they have because they and they find it fascinating not the least because the outcomes it creates and a host are so drastically different need people will get it through their systems without even noticing while some people will go after id for their lives do you think people have a choice in which group they fall into. oh they certainly do the bottom line is that. many infectious diseases like chronic disease and physical impairment are preventable and with with good health which includes a good immune system we can prevent many or most of the. viruses bacteria and other microbes that may infect us humans have always done that that's why really we got this far in the world is we've had this great immune system i think it's you keep variables when it comes to copenhagen one is metabolism the state of metabolism and the other one is the state of community. so many really dull but we should one be conditional which do you think is most critical when dealing with a with a virus like. well they're both they're they're both essential the metabolism established shoes are our improved health so if we have good metabolism we have good health and if we have good health we have good immunity and then immunity improves our metabolism which that improves our health and so it's one big happy cycle. now if i may ask you one more question dr macedon i have spent the last couple of days reading your book the over 500 i'm a fair which i highly recommend to anyone interested in the connection between dietary sure grandfather and bodily fat as well as how absent bodily fat compromises both metabolism and immunity i understand it's a massive question that's right you wrote a hope that in growth strokes jenny please explain how broken metabolism would leave you weekend immunity. well there's a number of number of issues though one you've been talking about poor sugar metabolism is one and law. professor professor larson mentioned stress metabolic stress reduces immunity which we've known about for 100 years and again now you've got. you know you've got diet induced overfat which affects insulin resistance which affects chronic inflammation and that mischa psycho affects our metabolism menar our immune system. the crystal larson i i forgot. my give my biology lessons from school by now but one thing i remember is that maybe i'm being viewed in south are actually mackay that is in the apps out is that right . yeah it is so healthy and even system supported by a wire body. so this is a very important i think was tissue itself is just a really important issue. you know it's populated by a number of immune cells and getting t. cells and matter. and it's just vital that we have you know these kind of forgotten that that's a really important issue that so there but it's tightly linked to the immune system so he don't have. don't have that system functioning well in the future hurdle to mislead by having too much show your stress in your diet you reduce the overall function of that immune system to a. mountain attack against any viral pathogen that comes across your body. such as a credible iris the thing many people don't realize is that fat cells are very important for our metabolism their medically actor to survive tissue just like our liver and our brain and other other tissues in the body and so when we have too much fat those fat cells become literally become sick just like when we have too little fat too little fat creates very similar problems as as excess body fat and so it's all about balance. the larsen i noticed cellular metabolic changes that you just described from what i understand they could be happening within people off perfectly normal weight and that's why i think your concept of fact is so ragin and at this point of time because me me actually you know that many of the victims of call it you know are you know i meet people but they're also maybe people who seemed relatively fat at least to you no doubt avnery back colleagues how is. being already fagged different from being obese and once the scale of the problem. this is a big question this is a. that's important for us to get our here a little bit a survey and i really come from the sport sector right song often used to dealing with what a big muscular one of the things that we got on scene when we would measure our plea is that he's a living at least would actually be defined overweight and even obese according to the be on a live body. right which is a which is really it's taking the just the overall weight into account and then when you know when we're actually muscle it's all ways so much so to not to know and just use the scale to that we are obsessing about to determine whether or not we are is completely wrong we need to be measuring what matters the one measure what matters is the. self deposits the added prosody sits around typically it doesn't and sits around our image or around her waist and that's really that's where overfat is so you know fills championing this for a long time need to go away from the scale and we need to go more towards like. measure where we changed around our race and you see how much. you know how much more strain on laps there are your waist years relative to your height and your very simply or your waist measure to be less that's right the way should be less than half your eye. and where we actually are when do you actually do those measurements. and calculations based on them i believe that you came up with astonishing figures i mean like i haven't figured that i saw that roughly 90 percent of the world elation. it is a magic bullet we come from ice or what are you would call all right fat i mean how could i be that's over 80 percent in the us it's 91 percent of adults are over a fat but in places like india. shockingly 80 percent of the indian adults are over fat and so we we have a serious problem and you know people often think that j. from not overweight and i'm not obese you know my body fat must be ok but the fact is that 40 percent or more of non obese normal weight individuals are over fat hurriedly you say that when you pile on sugar when you cut it out the you know the changes within your body could happen within a few meals and. you know evolutionarily it's hard to understand why because i mean our bodies usually have backup systems or me to get existence developed more and in fact i but why is the reaction to sugar so immediate well if you take away a stress the body responds and in the case of sugar when you stop eating it yeah you literally will will measurably affect your metabolism in the same day and and you question i cannot see a difference in your waist measurement of course but by then that will change relatively quick as well but the 1st thing that has to be done is you need to change your metabolism and stopping sugar and i'm not talking about cutting back on sugar arms are about stopping sugar will do that quite rapidly. now correct me if i'm wrong once you cut carbohydrates your blood sugar may be creased over the next couple of. hours or days to reach perhaps and we'll create less favorable condition for viruses to get into your body but it will take much longer to fix your actual cellular metabolism but we know that you can do that i think you yourself have to have managed to reverse your type 2 diabetes do we understand what actually happens to the south when they become sick and when they become how do we understand how this process. you know similar changes work now they become less cells become more and so and that's sort of. and they get away from this problem of insulin resistance and so that's just part of the metabolic improvements that we see quite easily and it's it's another way you mentioned bts a couple times now it's another way of. improving the health of a diabetic and often reducing their need for insulin or often eliminating their need for insulin it's interesting that he say that because the world health organization still describes type 2 diabetes as an incurable disease on its website and it also recommends all downs as a way of managing the beast rather than me but given the speed and the extend of metabolic changes in the body that you both have described it's hard not to wonder what i'd be how. the quarantine measures when people are locked or weeks on and next to this rage next to their cell phone next to that tally isn't the little bit this fitting as far as the race against called it goes professor larson what do you think about that. yeah another perfect storm probably coming. you know you're almost you're creating a sedentary situation so there's less loot meant that. possibly there's there's more stress there's certainly some mental health issues that i've been seeing or hearing of. as we just were not too unlike humans we're we're meant to. be isolated like. and yeah and if we're continuing to not eat. then yeah it's a recipe for you know exacerbating the overflow and it wouldn't be fair to assume that the longer people stay under quarantine in that sedentary conditions then nor are i see a bad reale likely to require later on well maybe a big step you know but but it's you know you know helping the situation certainly there's some rational to suggest that we had to do what we had to do to slow the spread. but yeah i'm not sure still is probably a better better got to ask in terms of the best strategy moving forward and different countries are going to as we see i guess i one day are current is around the world to understand that the choir engine itself. doesn't count without a cost is bad an accurate statement. to me with a yeah without a doubt and i think we'll we'll start seeing some of that damage along with the other information we need to learn about the data about covert 19 over taing as scientists start looking at the data and testing people truly trusting people the number of cases will go down in their adjustments the number of deaths will go down and there are adjustments and you know this is going to be very very important information to look at from a scientific standpoint and in terms of helping us in the future but in the end at the same time we might just take this covert 19 virus and lump it into seasonal viruses and every year. we'll you know will be exposed to these 100 or so different seasonal viruses and over 1000 will be one of them gentlemen let us take a very short break now but you'll be back in just a few moments they cheated. is your media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. tyson nation community. are you going the right way or are you being that. direct. what is true what is faith. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. or remain in the shallowness. 35 years ago there was a global solidarity to annihilate the scourge of notches in from the year of the soviet union and its western allies prevailed against nazi germany today such global solidarity is sadly missing in days of the current pandemic in what wanks is very necessary solidarity. welcome back to rolled up large michelle not by telling and told larsen. gentleman just be sure to break we were talking about the. social costs are warranted and i think all of the doctors and the governments often have to deal with the so-called . problem by deciding whose lives have to be prioritized and i think what's interesting with the comment 19 is that in this particular case they decided to prioritize the sick and the all they showed readiness to n.p.r. enormous economic losses because of that why do you think professor larson they have never been as decisive in regulating the well it's reaching make us so to speak in different ways i assume that would have saved governments a lot of money oh yeah yeah you can imagine it is going to different way that i think it really comes down to probably industry and industry ties with government and specifically i think we have to point you know one of the fingers at a big food and you know and our attention to the political agendas and probably money at the end of the day. you know and i'm not exactly sure of it is how we got here in the in the 1st place but the wrong information got the wrong feeling of our world and their own habits there and we're sitting in the in the over pendennis that we that we are in and we don't have unions this was the majority of it with slight coronavirus now and we are all a little bit freaked out at the moment about the call that 19 at societe were telling to read but basically around it being over a fad prematurely kills far far more people and i think if a warning nation was causing that kind of data rate our governments would be compelled to go to war to stop that any at that i think riyadh not seeing any anything any major stats happening there's a lot of discussion but we do. very decisive action at least in my country i have to say now professor marse and i know you are a big believer in in towering people through education and. awareness and now don't you think that people should be incentivized perhaps penalized you say bad i care about own health so i really want to go back more to phil's philosophy there where it does have to come back to the individual. and just i'm not sure with all the temptations that are out there whether you can shake a stick at someone and force them to go and do this and i just don't see that really is working there's so many overfat individuals that are directly in government and in nation policies and they just kind of can't see the forest for the tree in lights so we're it's been an uphill battle and that's where i come back to feels it's got to come back to the individual well agri view on on the issue of personal responsibility but when we look at the vagaries of you know how many governments have just banned the dealing in the bowl of diseases that seems like i mean it almost is like going why where does that raise the more overfat people there are because you know that we need a leader that understands it so you know and the leaders that i'm looking at mostly in the world. don't really care or understand so but if the leadership. grabbed hold of these principles and and started from the top then we would be starting somewhere you know things with things you could start having we've just shown actually that we can make drastic changes in an instant we can but in absolute all time things so it is certainly possible that we could switch things over very very quickly i don't believe it would quired the leadership needs to needs to do. now on the chairperson of action dr matic telling your andrew in. the world go round there is a huge irony or training at a lower heart rate is typically you bear in more are bad and you know as i was jogging in the morning as. well ash you would call it an easy pace i found it very challenging it occurred to me that a low down is actually a paraphrase time i our time of year vice because you actually don't need that much distance to train the way you recommend you leave chile can run in half an hour in your backyard or even in your cartman what do you think about god do you think it's finally the time when you know a 3rd of the world that is under lockdown should try the math its own method. well it's not too late to start getting healthy through 3 year exercise along with your diet so yeah and i think people should train by time not by miles so a 30 minute walk or a 60 minute run. is is a very valuable amount of time and who cares how far you go it's really not relevant for the average person running exercising by time is what's most important and you don't even have to do it all runs if you do 10 minutes in the morning 10 minutes in the afternoon and 10 minutes an evening now you've got 30 minutes of exercise that's pretty powerful cancel out on that because i often hear you're railing against this no pain milngavie alexander it's only a parasite of implementing some appeared buys in my own lives and eating it actually sighs and i actually understood what it means it's no longer hard to be how to eat not challenging it's a you don't have to sound hard to get your optimal how why do you think this idea of the hard way of sort of work to yourself into the ground is so prevalent that it's a macho it's a macho thing and paul and i did a nother paper some time ago. on on the brain and how the brain makes decisions how are we going to decide which diet to follow or what workout program to follow and and our brain chooses the path of least resistance one that we don't have to think about because if we did we'd say hey wait a minute that doesn't make any sense but marketing people have grabbed on to that and that's why people follow no pain no gain because it's it's the sizzle and not the steak not professional lesson one more marketing ploy that may come into play here is calories in calories out mentality believing that if i downed a pint of ice cream today i may run it off tomorrow what is the relationship between diet and exercise and how they are facts are facts to wars. yes so that's another one and you did agree were you consider her eat. you know video with dr jason phone where he was really talking about the 2 different models that are out there we've got the calorie and calorie a model and then you go from the law and again we you know we strive to be chasing hormonal all it's really. that's what's going to be allowing for you know fats to be burn if you're stressed and you've got high sugar levels of high cortisol and yeah you just it doesn't matter if you're starving yourself calories you've got the hormonal regulation that's going to cause for storage and we need to we need to start understanding the difficult for difficult one for people to understand that's the way we work so we've got a search going to start somewhere and fasting is jason was professing in his in his talk with you is definitely a good practice well actually i'm glad you mentioned. it because dr methadone the only thing i have i find hard to. excepting in your book is your suggestion that we have to eat 5 forest steaks smaller males for a day and according to jason fung that iraq roots insulin resistance that's going to keep your insulate insulin levels up through the day. john she thinks that. i mean where do you stand on that if you know i i think i think the 5 to 6 meals a day is taking the calories that you're require and break in the mental smaller meals and those can be but be what it was be classically levels do they have enough time to actually really you know go down i think they do and in fact people who are just making changes with their diet quite often really need to eat more frequently because they can't go 3 hours or 4 hours and maintain a stable blood sugar stable. and stable cortisol so it wins those it wins them all from what they're doing to what they should be doing but over time . i still eat that frequently but my my caloric intake has lowered over the years as i become more metabolically efficient so. and then it's somewhat individual some people don't need 5 or 6 for meals 3 meals works for them others will never get out of that 5 to 6 meal routine because they've they've got so much down. gentlemen and our time is up thank you very much for being with us i really hold that. you know your wisdom will inspire some of our viewers to put away that. perhaps. they've got the trouble of handing out bathing in an emergency or worth thank you very much for your info i thank you thank you. and thank you for watching will disappear again next week when will the part. we go to work. straight home.

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