draft in the eyes to how to deal with cobbett 19 without becoming its accomplice to discover that i'm now joined by film after john and paul larson 2 doctors who popularized the expression that gentlemen it's so good to talk to your stash away at these times i mean they couldn't have been a more open to moment you describe as the main subject your work thanks for having us this is this is an important topic now dr master john let me start with you i. like me made a number of your is i now stuck at home and i see you. why do most travel and ways of dealing with things i would be hiding yourself some slack when it comes to food choices and that's perfectly understandable we are deprived of so many levels . socially physically some of us i deprived of fresh air and sunlight so i think people want to compensate for that but i see in that you would say that loading up on sugar is probably do worse thing one can do at this time am i right it is absolutely right and it's one of the reasons we got here because all that sugar has created excess body fat and the majority of people worldwide and that impairs immunity and therefore makes a small wrong to infection and during this period when we're were isolated in our homes. we tend to want to eat more sugar and sugar you know refined carbohydrates turn to sugar so that's a that's really the worst thing people can do now that you'll be you have long been talking about the danger of being over fat and to be have we will discount that if great detail but before that it seems that among people who are particularly hard hit by call that 19 are many people with either it's actually diabetes or various kinds of metabolic diseases so it seems that. with common $1000.00 in particular people with metabolic problems far more susceptible or is it always the case with but the virus. no i mean the data that's coming in is is clearly is is just very clear that it's those there are. symptoms of overfat so there house co-morbidities and it's those individuals that are coming into the hospitals it's those individuals that are set leaving us and it's ultimately because they have this medical at this regulation that there were medical and health. go back to those on and this is going to cause mostly too much sugar is the big picture right there the new more viruses in the in the future that we're not accustomed to and you know we need to get the world health that document to tell and at many stein scientists i talk to about base near virus seem to be almost in a lot where they have because they and they find it fascinating not the least because the outcomes it creates and a host are so drastically different need people will get it through their systems without even noticing while some people will go after id for their lives do you think people have a choice in which group they fall into. they certainly do are the bottom line is that. many infectious diseases like chronic disease and physical impairment are preventable and with with good health which includes a good immune system we can prevent many or most of the. viruses bacteria and other microbes that may infect us humans have always done that that's why really we got this far in the world is we've had this great immune system i think i have to keep variables when it comes to call when i didn't want is metabolism the state of metabolism and the other one is the state of community. so many really dull but we should one be conditional which do you think is most critical when dealing with a with a virus like. well they're both there they're both essential their metabolism established shoes are improved health so if we have good metabolism we have good health and if we have good health we have good immunity and then immunity improves our metabolism which that improves our health and so it's one big happy cycle. now if i may ask you one more question dr macedon i have spent the last couple of days reading your book the over 500 i'm a fair which i highly recommend to anyone interested in the connection between dietary sure grandfather and bodily fat as well as how absent bodily fat compromises both metabolism and immunity i understand it's a massive question that's right you wrote hope in growth strokes jenny please explain how broken metabolism would leave you weakened immunity. well there's a number of number of issues though one you've been talking about poor sugar metabolism is one and law. professor professor larson mentioned stress metabolic stress reduces a unity which we've known about for 100 years and again now you've got. you know you've got diet induced overfat which affects insulin resistance which affects chronic inflammation and that mischa psycho affects our metabolism menar our immune system. the resolution i i forgot. my give my biology lessons from school by now but one thing i remember is that maybe i'm being viewed in south are actually kate it in the x. out is that right. yeah it is so healthy and even system supported by a higher body. so this is a very important i think was tissue itself is just a really important issue. you know it's populated by a number of the mean cells and getting t. cells and matter and it's just vital that we have you know these kind of forgotten that that's a really important issue that so there but it's tightly linked to the immune system so he don't have. don't have that system functioning well a new future hurdle to play by by having too much show your stress in your diet you reduce the overall function of that immune system to a. mountain attack against any viral pathogen that comes across your body. such as a credible iris the thing many people don't realize is that fat cells are very important for our metabolism they're medically actor to survive tissue just like our liver and our brain and other other tissues in the body and so when we have too much fat those fat cells become literally become sick just like when we have too little fat too little fat creates very similar problems as as excess body fat and so it's all about balance. as an arson are not just cellular metabolic changes that you just described from what i understand they could be happening within people off perfectly normal weight and that's why i think your concept of fact is still ration and at this point of time because me me actually you know that many of the victims of call it you know are. you know i meet people but they're also maybe people who seemed relatively fat at least to you know to that avnery back. how is. being already fagged different from being obese and once the scale of the problem. oh i know this is a big question this is a. that's important for us to get her here alone but a survey and i really come from the sort sector right song often used to dealing with what a big muscular i mean one of the things that we can't seen when we would measure our plea is that he's a living athletes would actually be defined overweight and even obese according to the be on a live body. right which is a which is really it's taking the just the overall weight into account and then when you know when we're actually like muscle it's all ways so much so that to know and just use the scale to that we are obsessing about to determine whether or not we are is completely wrong we need to be measuring what matters the one measure what matters is the. self deposits the added prosody sits around typically it doesn't and since around our major around weights and that's really that's what oversight is so you know fills championing this for a long time we need to go away from the scale and we need to go more towards like a team measure where we stayed around a race and you see how much. you know how much more strain on laps there are you waste years relative to your height and your very simply or your waist measure to be less that's right the way should be less than half your height. and when we actually when do you actually do those measurements. and calculations based on them i believe that you came up with astonishing figures i mean like rabbit figures that i saw that roughly 90 percent of the world population. it is a magic bullet we come from ice or whether you would call all right fat i mean how could that be it's over 80 percent in the us it's 91 percent of adults or over a fat but in places like india. shockingly 80 percent of be indian adults are over fat and so we we have a serious problem and you know people often think that jay from not overweight and i'm not obese you know my body fat must be ok but the fact is that 40 percent or more of non obese normal weight individuals are over. her if you say that when you pile on sugar when you cut it out the you know the changes within your body that happened within a few meals and. you know evolutionarily it's hard to understand why because i mean our bodies usually have backup systems or me to get it systems developed for and in fact live on but why is the reaction to sugar so immediate well if you take away a stress the body responds and in the case of sugar when you stop eating it yeah you literally will will measurably affect your metabolism in the same day and and you question i cannot see a difference in your waist measurement of course but by then that will change relatively quick as well but the 1st thing that has to be done is you need to change your metabolism and stopping sugar and i'm not talking about cutting back on sugar arms are about stopping sugar will do that quite rapidly. now correct me if i'm wrong once you cut carbohydrates your blood sugar may get creased over the next couple of. hours or days reached perhaps and we'll create less favorable condition for viruses to get into your body but it will take much longer to fix your actual cellular metabolism but we know that you can do that i think you yourself have have managed to reverse your type 2 diabetes do we understand what actually happens to the south one day become sick and when they become how do we understand how this process. you know. changes work you know they become the cells become more and so and that's sort of. and they get away from this problem of insulin resistance and so that's just part of the metabolic improvements that we see quite easily and it's it's another way you mentioned beanies a couple times now it's another way of. improving the health of a diabetic and often reducing their need for insulin or often eliminating their needed for insulin it's interesting that he say that because the world health organization still describes type 2 diabetes as an incurable disease on its website and it also recommends all downs as a way of managing the beast rather than me but given the speed and the extent of metabolic changes in the body that you both have described it's hard not to wonder what i'd be how. the quarantine measures when people are logged or weeks on and next to this rage next to their cell phone next to that tally isn't the little bit this fitting as far as the race against called it goes professor larson what do you think about that. you know another perfect storm probably coming. you know you're almost you're creating a sedentary situation so there's less movement that's happening. possibly there's there's more stress there's certainly some mental health issues that i've been seeing or hearing of. as we just were not too unlike humans we're we're meant to. be isolated like. and yeah and if we're continuing to not eat. then yeah it's a recipe for you know exacerbating the overflow and it wouldn't be fair to assume that the longer people stay on a quarantine in sedentary conditions then nora i see a bad reale likely to require later on well maybe a big step on you know but but it's you know you know helping the situation certainly there's some rational to suggest that we had to do what we had to do to slow the spread. but yeah i'm not sure i'm still probably a better i got to ask in terms of the best strategy moving forward and different countries are going it differently as we see i guess i one day i started around a while to understand the quire engine itself. doesn't count without a cost is bad and accurate statement it's accurate to me mostly yeah without a doubt and i think we'll we'll start seeing some of that damage along with the other information we need to learn about the data about covert 19 over taing as scientists start looking at the data and testing people truly trusting people the number of cases will go down in their adjustments the number of deaths will go down and their adjustments and you know this is going to be very very important information to look at from a scientific standpoint and in terms of helping us in the future but in the end at the same time we might just take this covert 19 virus and lump it into seasonal viruses and every year. we'll you know will be exposed to these 100 or so different seasonal viruses and over 1000 will be one of them gentlemen let us take a very short break now but you'll be back in just a few moments they cheated. get . get you. get. we go to work. straight home. kaiser report never fails to deliver the goods you know we've been saying now for a few years that ultimately they're going to $100.00 trillion dollars japan's already dollar percent debt to g.d.p. on their fed's balance sheet kuroda their central banker has already taken their central bank above 100 percent of g.d.p. in terms of debt that's buying a lot of junk a lot of assets so merican at 6789 throwing dollars they've got another 60 trillion to go the globe is set to go to 100 percent g.d.p. debt to the balance sheets of the central banks. welcome back to worlds apart rich still not telling and whole larsen. gentlemen just be sure to break we're talking about. social costs are warranted and i think both of the doctors and the governments often have to deal with the so-called. problem by deciding whose lives have to be prioritized and i think what's interesting with the comment 19 is that in this particular case they decided to prioritize the sick and the all they showed readiness to in p.r. enormous economic losses because of that why do you think professor larson they have never been as decisive in regulating the fluids reaching make ice so to speak in different ways i assume that would have saved governments a lot of money oh yeah yeah you can imagine is it going to different whether i think it really comes down to probably industry and industry ties with government and specifically i think we have to point you know one of the fingers of a big food and you know and our attention to the political agendas and probably money at the end of the day. you know and i'm not exactly sure of it there is how we got here in the in the 1st place but the wrong information got the wrong feeling of our world and their own habits there and we're sitting in the in the over pendennis that we that we are in and we don't have unions this is the majority of it with slight coronavirus now and we are all a little bit freaked out at the moment about being called at 19 at société right talent to rate but obesity around him being over a fad prematurely kills far far more people and i think if i were in the nation was causing that kind of death rate our governments would be compelled to go to war to stop that any ad that i think we are not seeing any anything any major stats happening there's a lot of discussion but we do. very decisive action at least in my country i have to say now professor maher said i know you are a big believer in empowering people through education and. awareness and now don't you think that people should be incentivized or perhaps penalized you say bad i care about own health so i really want to go back more to phil's philosophy there where it does come back to the individual. and just i'm not sure with all the temptations that are out there whether you can shake a stick at someone and force them to go and do this and i just don't see that really as working there's so many overfat individuals that are directly in government and in nation policies and they just kind of can't see the forest for the tree in my eyes so we're it's been an uphill battle and it's right come back to phil's with it's got to come back to the individual well i grieve if you are going on on the issue of personal responsibility but when we look at the vagaries of you know how many governments have just banned the dealing in the bowl of diseases that seems like i mean it almost seems like the more i grant is that he's the more overfat people there are because you know that we need a leader that understands it so you know and the leaders that i'm looking at mostly in the world. don't really care or understand so but if the leadership. grabbed hold of these principles and and started from the top then we would be starting somewhere you know things are things we could start having we've just shown actually that we can make drastic changes in an instant we can put in an absolute all time thing so it's certainly possible that we could switch things over very very quickly i don't leave it required the leadership needs to needs to do. now on the chairperson of action dr matt and tell him you are and grow in. the world go round there is a huge irony or training at a lower rate is typically you very more are bad and you know as i was jogging in the morning at well ash you would call it an easy pace i found it very challenging it occurred to me that i logged on is actually a paraphrase time i our time of year vies because you actually don't need that much distance to train the way you recommend you legally can run in half marathon in your backyard or even in your cartman what do you think about digesting it's finally the time when you know a 3rd of the world is under lockdown should try in that its own method. well it's not too late to start getting healthy through 3 year exercise along with your diet so yeah and i think people should train by time not by miles so a 30 minute walk or a 60 minute run. is is a very valuable amount of time and who cares how far you go it's really not relevant for the average person running exercising by time is what's most important and you don't even have to do it all runs if you do 10 minutes in the morning 10 minutes in the afternoon and 10 minutes an evening now you've got 30 minutes of exercise that's pretty powerful cancel out on that because i often hear your railing against this no pain milngavie alex and it's only a parasite of implementing some appeared buys in my own lives and eating it actually i actually understood what it means it's no longer hard to be how to eat not challenging it's a you don't have to southwards you get your optimal out why do you think this idea of the hard way of sort of work to yourself into the ground is so prevalent that it's a macho it's a macho thing and paul and i did a nother paper some time ago. on the brain and how the brain makes decisions how are we going to decide which diet to follow or what workout program to follow and and our brain chooses the path of least resistance one that we don't have to think about because if we did we'd say hey wait a minute that doesn't make any sense but marketing people have grabbed on to that and that's why people follow no pain no gain because it's it's the sizzle and not the steak not professional lesson one more marketing ploy that may come into play here is calories in calories out mentality believing that if i downed a pint of ice cream today i may run it off tomorrow what is the relationship between diet and exercise and how they are facts are the wars. yes so that's another one and you did agree were you guys that occur 8. you know video with dr jason phone where he was really talking about the 2 different models that are out there we've got the calorie and calorie a model and then you go from the law and again we you know we strive to be chasing hormonal all that's really. that's what's going to be allowing for you know fats to be burned if you're stressed and you've got high sugar levels of high cortisol and yeah you just it doesn't matter if you're starving yourself calories you've got the hormonal regulation that's going to cause for storage and we need to we need to start understanding the difficult for difficult one for people to understand. the way we work so we've got a search going to start somewhere and fasting is jason was professing in his in his talk with you is definitely a good practice well actually i'm glad you mentioned. it because dr methadone the only thing i have i find hard to. excepting in your book is your suggestion that we have to eat 5 forest steaks smaller males for a day and according to jason fung that iraq roots insulin resistance that's going to keep your insularity insulin levels up through the day. john she thinks that. i mean where do you stand on that if you know i i think i think the 5 to 6 meals a day is taking the calories that you're require and break in the mental smaller meals and those can be made me want to be classically levels do they have enough time to actually really you know go down there i think they do and in fact people who are just making changes with their diet quite often really need to eat more frequently because they can't go 3 hours or 4 hours and maintain a stable blood sugar stable. and stable cortisol so it wins those it wins them all from what they're doing to what they should be doing but over time . i still eat that frequently but my my caloric intake has lowered over the years as i become more metabolically official so. and then it's somewhat individual some people don't need 5 or 6 for meals 3 meals works for them others will never get out of that 5 to 6 meal routine because they've they've got so much down. gentlemen and our time is up thank you very much for being with us i really hope. you know your wisdom will inspire some of our viewers to put away dogs who perhaps have died because they've got to the trouble of handing out bathing in an emergency ward thank you very much for your insight thank you thank you. thank you for watching we will disappear again next week when will the part. there. are. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see you then. the silence here is earring.

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