Like to prove it is not the same thank sought this kind all and Good Laboratory drugs that do not think they do not cease to work or coronavirus so actually what we are it you would say its let me say it 2nd level and it run out or in drugs which are all of the body about this is not going to do with this let me say commonly use under an arbitrary trucks that should not be yours that you can use an asset that will in order to go well if you but but also reminded most of the time its even coronavirus your morning is not that high and if anyone thinks that washing ones hands is a seems like an odd response all the Mathematical Modeling does show it will save millions of people from being infected yes of course if it did anything we grew up the birth to be very clear that didnt meet a root of transmission is through droplet i do not have quoted droplet then most effected. East la she had 2nd is using mask this works theres no doubt about the editor of the Peer Reviewed british medical journal the lancet says the response here in britain was wrong and that the outbreak has been entirely preventable what did you make of what you were hearing from britain when the chief scientific science advisor heres a Patrick Vallance who formerly worked at j. F. K. Said herd immunity is the path to go down we now know that entails the deaths of quarter of a 1000000 people if you are already in a situation in which its a cold muni acquired the only way that we need it to do is a tool up for conduct this is a general principle and its i just see this to our all white cotton docked were getting reports of a lack of testing kits of protective again for frontline medical staff here in london the epicenter of the pandemic in britain how can we learn from what happened in italy where thousands died about the need for testing which of course the World Health Organization has advised britain to get a move on with according to the level of it yannick you must concentrate on testing or rather just food to eat or quantity because they now isolation nowadays so be it be that make this. High that actually we rely more on what symptoms rather than our test it also because we will never have become passive to test all the population regarding how to treat expression how to treat the coal at their supports that it difficulty in providing whole care providers to all that protective measure i would sell for any intensity in intensive care unit we use of the same towards that the same a master or one single chair now and we use the surgery mouse on the top because we dont have that ive rejected mastectomy change every patient many doctors especially in that territory says that we have normal ask the we can. No gold theres a patient hole but of course and this is a biggie ship for us because otherwise all of it should we come to the boat and we will not have the capacity to create them all ok just finally in very briefly obviously a lot of repercussions of that of investment in the Italian Health service and Health Services across the European Union have that you had any cases of those who have been infected by covert 1000 who have recovered from covert 1000 and then have been reinfected not so far nevertheless and there is a lot of uncertainty about how much is protected. Even junichi provided by 1st grown up iris to take ships because of their product or we are just testing if the virus spreads and we are not testing which antibodies are predictable or with cellular immunity is protected at last the 1st search is ongoing not that its on the course of this will be crucial as soon as that that signal will be available in order to forecast the level of protection that will be provided by docs nation its crucial to dog how much we will be able to buy absolutely it will the collation and to what extent of this box it will be effective in order to avoid and this is the scene that you just will turn to be a suitable disease like employment of the giovanni growled a thank you my pleasure well while the Global Pandemic may threaten millions it is billions who are threatened by another catastrophe arguably not being properly prepared for by earth riches nations join me now as Extinction Rebellions dr richard reid ribble welcome back to going underground youre not directly for Extinction Rebellion the area wearing a hat and i give them a cat and before we even start when it comes to this crisis youve effectively been criticizing the same a b. B. C. Coverage of the more strength of the ministrations response presumed as Public Information is going to be vital in this crisis absolutely the government has not been publicizing its models they now emerged. Very late in the day thats not acceptable we need full transparency we need a lot more information about corona virus than we have because were hardly doing any testing in this country similarly in the United States the numbers that we have on the pandemic theyre all massive underestimate because of the incredibly low number of tests and because so many people who have coronavirus are asymptomatic for quite a while while they have and while their infectious sewage the volunteers the chief scientific advisor submerging vallance will say well you dont know that because we havent had the and this is just a. Competition when people like the editor of the law and sort of making extraordinary claims that somehow this was entirely preventable because of the herd immunity response look we know for sure that the numbers are a hell of a lot higher than the official numbers we dont know exactly what they are but we know there are a lot higher now in terms of the province ability of this Richard Horton the editor of the lancet is exactly correct many scientists have been mourning for some time and i come at this from the perspective of the precautionary principle the idea that when we dont know something we want to protect ourselves against what we dont know in the case of this emergency this virus its unprecedented we dont know what effects it has we dont know for example whether it might have neurological effects where that might leave permanent lung damage we dont know a great deal about how its transmitted yet were gradually finding out but theres a lot we dont know ok but help until now living to let me just finish the point action when we when we dont know that kind of stuff we need to her on the side of safety thats what it is to be precautious and that is exactly what the u. K. And u. S. Governments have not been doing they havent been keeping us safe all the provinces father so early georgia says that he will still go to the public in any case but i think the government would say they were earning on the side of caution when they saw that the herd immunity response would kill courtroom 1000000 people in britain this term herd immunity i think it was a very honest to be used. Their idea was lets let this pandemic rip through the population and try to control it from hitting the most vulnerable we try to keep them this had the likely consequence as you say that we could have hundreds of thousands of people dying in this country now why would any government do that let me put something quite controversial here i believe that the only way it could make sense for somebody to think of doing that is if they didnt enormously think of themselves as part of this heard that was going to be knowingly infected with the disease knowingly recklessly endangering the population and i would claim thinking that they themselves would be part of that percentage of the population that were not going to be infected ok well the Harvard School of public health. How did she do agree with you think it was it was but why is it then that the b. B. C. Certainly is reporting new the science is changed thats why Boris Johnson has changed his advice to the British Population as regards going out of doors so the imperial results that the government is changing your goal of Building Material college. They are new in themselves but the substance of what theyre saying is precisely what the lancet was saying 2 months ago is precisely what messing taliban ive been saying for weeks on end a back of an envelope calculation shows that hundreds of thousands are at risk from this virus if you let it hit most of the population are the same and data brokers are the main broadcaster in this country is wrong about the science having changed the problem with the b. B. C. Coverage is that theyve been and the i. T. V. Coverage is that theyve been far too deferential towards the state they said things like for example well Boris Johnson is for only following the scientific advice because of course he goes out there flanked by the chief medical officer. And the chief scientific adviser but that doesnt mean theyre making the policy the policy was very influenced for example by the Knowledge Psychology unit that is close to 10 downing street who were saying look youre not going to be able to convince people to socially isolate the long periods of time therefore youve got to wait before you impose that those kinds of restrictions but that was groundless what weve actually seen wonderfully over the last week is the British Population moving ahead of the government and saying look its just not good enough were not convinced that youre keeping us safe anymore we are bringing the government into line and were bringing the broadcasters into line actually the science all the way along different scientists been saying Different Things the safe thing to do the precautions thing to do was never put the whole population into a kind of massive uncontrolled experiment no where else in the world was planning to do this im here in london with us shannon and there are still flights taking off from from london airport from city airport except for those flights are because london is an epicenter now those flights are spreading the virus around this country and as we speak just finally very briefly i know that its ensure bellina curbing some of the. Demonstrations i understand theres a whistle blowing project in case anyone watching this program was to give you information that could help not only regarding corona virus but on fossil fuel emissions globally yeah so we had this site its called truthteller dot life w w w dot 2 fella dot life and the idea is if there are secrets that are lurking in any Pharmaceutical Company in any bank and any Insurance Company whatever it might be in government get them out the public need and deserve to know about threats to their safety on this or any issue Professor Robert reed thank you after the break whos really just blame for the lockerbie bombing that killed 270 people on british soil we speak to solicitor our own words working to clear the name of the only man ever to be convicted. For the u. K. s worst terror attack all the small going up about to have going underground. The world is driven by a dream shaped by our own personal those. Dares thinks. We dare to ask. Them out is just every small cycle dont know why youre 18 with. The loony p. C. On fire and they can be sued usually from the police and. Today just a little chef law office the next you dont. Get a solution safety feature. Is likely. Welcome back in the past few days as the Coronavirus Crisis began to dominate International News the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission made a decision about the biggest of a terror attack on british soil the bereaved have been campaigning for justice for over 3 decades since the lockerbie bombing which killed 270. 00 people after pan am flight 103 crashed the only man ever to be convicted as libyan Intelligence Officer abdel Baset Al Mcgrath he but now there is to be a posthumous appeal joining me now from our studio in glasgow is an astronomer unwearied lodged an appeal on behalf of mcgrath his family and has described his conviction as the worst miscarriage of justice in british legal history thank you so much on my for coming on just before we get to lockerbie ive got to ask you because corona virus is obviously in the ed lines you helped arguably put the murdoch news of the world out of business its successor the sun on sunday came out thats the chosen output by one of the top scientific adviser on coronaviruses to Boris Johnson what do you make of using Murdoch Outlets for information i think is a as a liverpool boy most people would find that shocking i think the fact that the government has repeatedly using. One particular newspaper. To help a few days ago used to telegraph a pay wall in order to put Public Information is simply not acceptable all newspapers all t. V. Stations should be get exactly the same information should be given favoritism to one but i think its its outrageous and i and the process and the result of course is that they are cutting off parts of society that refused to buy such papers but also it means the information is not getting gates and in a uniform fashion and it is scaring people i have older parents who are scared reading what they see and tippets in the news and tabloids is simply unacceptable is not the way a reasonable rational well informed government should be behaving that shocking in fairness of our sons in government im sure they say they are rectifying some of the problems before we obviously invite the barclay brothers owners of the telegraph and Rupert Murdoch on the show but thats. Yet the lockerbie a lot of people are going to think that this case was done and dusted over 20 allez deal with the late more margaret daffy what exactly is this case and why are you were pressing it given that al mcgrady has been convicted of this case he was of course 1st accused by a cia asset in libya back in the days when great get halfway around the one of the richest countries in africa per capita well it on the 21st december 1988 pan am flight 103 exploded over lockerbie in the town of lockerbie and 270 people from 21 countries lost their lives this was the as you said its a deal it was the greatest terrorist atrocity to take place on u. K. Soil and what it means is a many people have said to us why 30 or over 31 years later should be trying to take this back to the appeal court and its as simple as this if there was a reversal of the verdict it would mean that the britain of britain and the United States and the Security Services have been living a monumental lie for some 31 years they incarcerated an innocent man and they punished the libyan people for a crime they did not commit and many people have for a long time pointed the finger of blame at the to run. And stated that they were responsible that they carried out a revenge attack when the americans murdered some several 100 iranians on an air bus 6 months before the lockerbie attack and yet for some reason the finger of blame then shifted when the 1st gulf war came along and it seemed an opportune moment to treat libya which was a pariah state and to point the finger of blame at that when they needed support from syria and from iran for the 1st gulf war no the bottom line here remains that mr macgregor he did actually start is a people there was strong grounds of appeal and the process started and then in 2009 when he was diagnosed with cancer pressure was placed upon him and he reasonably believed that. Lessie gave up his appeal he would not be allowed to return home to die with his to die in the presence of his family that was an unfortunate that was a horrific way to deal an individual who had already been incarcerated for a crime he did not commit and then he subsequently died and people for that was the end of the chapter in 2014 i met with the british relatives who are unique in legal history anywhere i can see in the world have supported the victims you know as victims family members have supported members of the accused the convicted and the mcgrath the family agreed on in unison decided that we should try to take this case back to the court so its been nearly 6 years of work we submitted an application to be getting that was refused on this time round the application succeeded and the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission said that it was on the basis of an unreasonable decision any jury would have taken and also did nondisclosure of evidence and you know the fingerprints of the american Security Services the british Security Services the u. K. Government and the British Government are all over this i dont really have hidden the what to actually took place and then the only place to decide the guilt or innocence of mr magara elmaghraby is of course in the Scottish Appeal Court where we will be going edge of course ok i want to get also to the reprisal allegations concerning iran of course the United States killed 290. 00 people on a civilian airliner the u. S. S. Vincennes attack but this thing to what you just said because some people are going to be asking we cant get m i 5 and my 6 officers on the show unless why on earth then would mamma get up have accepted that mcgrath he did the deed and it was just to Unfreeze Bank accounts relieve sanctions and get a privatized british b. P. To get an oil deal well i mean i cant i cant answer for this to get happy i am what the bottom line here is that there has to mean much disclosure over the years of t