Many foreign people out of the u. K. As possible im not in the least surprised that they dont want to help robert says that dead child on the beach was just so heartbreaking god love him jim i must says we have enough children needing help here Charity Begins at home william says what about her own kids should you not get her own house in order 1st and finally will my says shame on the British Government and i form a scottish justice secretary Kenny Macaskill and p. Has built up a formidable reputation as an author before entering the Westminster Parliament in the december election their love of polish day for longest serving Prime Minister but the time to ferment and 1797 years back to recall because he was a British Military commander when the massacre of trying to place trial women and children. Because your post their position of conscious. The Prime Minister or we had a look liverpool was in the military commander for the Central Scotland he wasnt responsible for the order to fire but he was culpable and indeed took the blame according to the lord of the court but he obviously recall him to greater things and became the Prime Minister they keep trying to alex speaks to him about his newly released volume on scotlands radical history this deals with the p. T. From the french revolution to the guide to cool rising of 1820. Kind of cast the welcome back to the Alex Salmonds youll know clearly it will have some advantages to all this book writing in the they help you with material as well just season 4 here your 1st speeches and a host of comments what was the massacre of turnin it in your constituency it was a military atrocity that became a state covered up it was anti militia riots that took place all over scotland and 797 people objected to conscription being brought in as the army out acquired soldiers for the polio on wards and also to quiet soldiers for as they put it internal tranquillity which was a euphemism for oppressing the people who had been inspired by the french revolution some 12 people were killed as an army frankly run amok in my small constituency in the link that i was happy to point out in my maiden speech was that the military commander than 1797 was the end all of liverpool who became the Prime Minister and ironically as i conclude my boot was played minister at the time of the 1820 rising who oversaw the hanging and then the beheading of be a target in wilson scottish martyrs or some of our scottish an onslaught of who was also the target of the cattle street conspiracy at that time but you know most members of Parliament Making the 1st speech in the house of commons the liftoff of the dream is wirelessly the lovely countryside the dhoti people of the constituency that not many people to the fair to repression and massacres well part of this is trying to court the radical memory in what is a sport perhaps inspired me for the book because it became quite clear that after the 820 writing there was a concerted effort by this stablish mint to the Court History as they saw it because after all all history is recorded to some extent by the victors and scotland hasnt been afford an invading army its been a lot and ladies and the radicals saw streets going down into the one of those to frederick to Princes Street or whatever. They saw statues to wellington to nelson and to others the lords and ladies a desperate henry didnt last and that was an enemy the some advantages also of having a. Regnum between your period just the sectors go on the member of the Scottish Parliament and newly elected as a member of the westminster pub youve written 7 booths all of which of a constant theme in scotland radical history of boulder fee of jimmy reed and no this latest book is scotlands radical history between the the pulled on it wars and the 820. 00 rising which are just a fact of well why did you choose that period fielitz but glasgow 1900 boot was inspired partly by those whod inspired jimmy reed in the right a very clean say but do not reset it became quite clear scotland radical roots went far beyond the way back youre working your way but went back to 17 ninetys into thomas viewed it became quite clear that thomas butin speired those who fought in rows and 820 thomas moore was the the radical of the early seventys ninetys who famously was transported to to a still year became the the worlds most wanted man as he was hunted voted the globe by the british ended up in revolutionary france was plotting an invasion of scotland another radical rising one unfortunately he died a very calamitous figure and of course as you point the but people cope with all the station in edinburgh as a monument you cant mess and count cemetery that is published it was about thomas meudon the other scottish martyrs ironically 3 of the 5 of whom were english i think a lot of people of scotland dont realise that we fought together albeit distinctively and scotland but Thomas Muellers obl asc and i think that she was partly why ive written this book because i read an article from stiliyan academic that pointed out the difficulties in even picking that mark memorial up because after 821. All these statues to lords and ladies in the greater good of the budgeting British Empire were going up there was a desire to record the radical past that was being written out so they decided to try and put the obvious can top of cotton hill in edinburgh that would be invisible to all and sundry in the council objected the portland cult and cemetery and some of the tories litigated because they thought this would disturb the peace of the dead including obviously humans mausoleum thats within the same cemetery but they were overcome that and thats why it was unveiled in the early forties to sure that there was a different history to the statues to the lords and ladies but that 70 itself indication of to scotlands because of not bob but within yards of the mule and the other friends of the people those david humes muslim as you rightly say you were youd have to display david hume one of the followers of the enlightenment as the as the radical in the sense that he wanted to see uprisings are against the established authority well i dont think its either all i think its both i think its right that we should have statues as well as the most ileum to david hume but i also think we should record radical poster in the radical memory and sadly Scottish History has tended to focus upon some of the romantic aspects of bonnie prince charlie and maybe queen of scots and its not focused on those that were driving forward the history of a bank of scotland because after the 820. 00 those who ran executed but youd been transported to came by and the evil revered infected by the chartists killed hard in the fledgling Labor Movement marx tobias included symbiosis had been used in each in 20 rising of scotland free on a desert that followed on to the red clay inside us thats why as were seeing eliot the radical roots of scotland dont just go back through jimmy reed to replace 8 they go back to thomas moore and to that time when the french revolution ignited the working people of scotland he saw for the 1st time that there was another week that it wasnt just the Promised Land and havent that there could be a different we here and there. How do you reconcile the figures of the latent many of whom like Adam Smith David Hume came from humble upbringing but the patronage of the of the establishment of the lords and ladies often doesnt happen in the working class radical that the skilled tradesmen who have the the cabin often supported of course by the radical lawyers like yourself d is that the latent scotland fitted in the great figures many of whom came from very humble origins or they did then they continued to come through the even through the British Empire people who wait to broaden their great works came from very humble backgrounds but i think what we saw as we moved out of the enlightenment in the 18th century we saw the beginnings of the rise of the Industrial Age and thats why Manufacturing Processes were coming in more perhaps in england in mind chest in london than in scotland but the weaving industry was taking off and it was changing and long before the the miners became the bitboard of the scottish Labor Movement it was the weavers they were after zines they didnt consider themselves as perhaps as what king mayne but they were educated they were literate these were people who saw that the french revolution offered a different way so they were of the working class made good they didnt have the patronage of the lords and ladies and indeed they wanted to challenge them so i think that history runs in pollo the problem scotland is weve tended to ignore them and concentrate on the lords and ladies but the very few people know. I would think would had we been dust the toting figure of. The Prime Ministership of that the younger run scotland for put the younger was the last westminster politician to be teached and its a bentley or mafia source in the levy he was accused of but the wealthy people would regard their history. As the be all and end all but a lot of people would argue that the terms of impact on human. The latent figures of more impact than the the working class for girls like lakeview build them hard to 1520 as their legacy really hard that sort of that you could claim for adam smith from the wealth of nations or the moral philosophy of the would you or i think recording the enlightenment as. Is necessary in vital i dont necessarily think that henry didnt dast of king having he was a despotic figure and indeed i think his contribution to the British Empire was shameful in many ways given that people spawned action being taken against slavery he basically ran scotland as a despot he was in control of Something Like 410 to 43 tory m. P. s at one stage in scotland he ran it as an oligarchy on behalf of lots sometimes i look at the names of the rich landlords that he represented and i look at the house of lords and they want to ship of land in scotland and i wonder whats changed after all these years so i think in a different category than i would for example you know adam smith or david hume and its the people that challenge the dice that need to be recorded thats why the bicentenary of the 820 rising when the dass were taken on is so important because das and his nephew the lord advocate also so i dont bash robert and asked were shameful going back to the massacre to meant you read the state archives they knew it was a military trial city they covered up the only person to be prosecuted worst in fact a magazine that ran a letter from one of the victims would do it or would do or who told 4 top and and they were sued for defamation but one of the military. Officers involved so they knew what had happened they covered it up and that was why they were building got a sense all across Central Scotland because they knew that the people of scotland didnt as we do see in terms of hornblower and chopped if you francis the enemy the and 7. 94. 00 as with thomas you saw france as an opportunity for walking people ordinary people to control the room late in destiny but would it be the case that people like what the 820 year after they were appealing to working class people across britain as they put it in the proclamation case that we were actually looking perhaps as the labor party has done looking for for a change across these islands as opposed to seeing scotland as a distinct entity i think its both i mean scotland was a distinct entity scotland was a different country different laws different chuch even the language was significantly different people were all spoke english and who lived in their own world because transport and mass media hadnt come along but said what they were fighting for was universal franchise which was based at westminster because lets remember that the franchise in the 1790s in scotland was available to 4000 people it was reckoned that half of them were fictitious and this was a country that had a population approaching 2000000 this wasnt a democracy it was an oligarchy of landlords or graham story of the election the. Fantastic story of the constituency then as you move the drug to scotland busa butte ross and cromarty which extended dont the east coast of scotland where there was an election and the election was to take place in ross in the aisle of butte because of bad weather that was only one candidate on the island and he tom dont not only to be the only candidate but the only voter and without any sense of shame of irony he normally to themself he then 2nd himself in a different capacity being a local barkley he voted for himself he then had themselves declared the winner by the sheriff and off he went to waste minister that was democracy in the 7090s i think probably what will see today is his silence and has helped are probably sitting in the house of lords. Thank you very much thank you. Goldmans tragical history could fill my. Any volumes and by the saying of it Kenny Macaskill may yet contribute a few more join us after the break when we bring the story of politics of cold and bang up to date will see that. These policymakers are grown accustomed to the idea that every single problem can be solved with money for anything why cant we solve the coronavirus of money printing the market now is starting to scratch just a little bit and saying wait a minute. Say so therefore valuations look like theyre going to be marked down already in correction territory on these markets down 10 percent are going to have to bear market valuations down 20 percent probably i think the likelihood is extremely high 50 or 60 percent drop thats probably a 10 to 20 percent probability. Were feeding our hopes our dreams our desires our money to compete this creates what do we get back to you know like you thats thats a bad deal so when this technology jumping out of this one is the goal is you helping me to keep you healthy for it or to keep me you know you connected and i missed it so we will live in an area the post screen area where we will live with all the screens and it will be more in harmony or will help us more. Welcome back off the name p. K. To macaskill has released a bit on scotlands radical political history but to other radicals not even scottish politics under the winning or losing alex to someone who is both a libra kind and then i simply m. P. Economist and called nist george could have been. Just get over the far lower lip of this love for law school its national be associated with love a lot of left of Center Left Wing groups through the last generation of scottish politics what do you think of the scandal macaskill thesis of the us or a radical thread running through scottish politics over the last couple of centuries how alex and thanks for having me back and yes you remind me you and i have been through a few organizations together on the radical left candidate can recast is doing as a Great Service i dont know where he finds the time but hes churning out of these books and what hes doing hes recovered a whole a whole red line of history radical history its called and go way back 700 years a line that right down to the present day did can you just been elected to westminster from from radical the slogan and hope you still find the time to go on writing so thats our various titles through the the last couple 100 years that radical forces of coalesced behave in the either a Movement Like the flames of the people or the 820. 00 rising at a Political Party in the 20th century like the independent labor party and though the the s. And p. How credible is that an argument i think when theres theres a kind of religious tradition we call it began socially and in religious communities where people may every week and they discuss the bible and they discuss that because the Old Testament where the kings of israel were held to account if they didnt to do right by the people and by morality and i think that that tradition. Is deeply beauty in Scottish History and even more than does little more days the revival of nationalism in scotland and a radical left in scotland actually began in the 1960 s. It began with the the Folk Music Movement and people marching against against Nuclear Missiles were in the client and recovering their old. Theyre old folk songs and putting new lyrics on to them and that then morphed into opposition to the then parables labor government and that led to the occupation at a quite shipbuilders and in opposition in 1000 seventies to the turn of mass unemployment or all of this really was from below and its quite often the case is the politicians who have to react to the people rather than the other way around and the healthiest movements and parties but not the most powerful personally if money is to unite the Labor Movement the National Question has that been the the secret of various statements different parties different forces coming to preeminence as scholars politics we just had a general election and in scotland the left party is gained Something Like 2 thirds of the popular vote in the rest of europe the left wing parties collectively in any election are lucky if they get up to 45 percent so theres a deep movement and once what i think puts called ahead of the game rest of europe is the combination of a revulsion at her stare t. Combined with a desire for our independence for scotland to take back its ancient weight of of selfdetermination so youre absolutely right when the 2 come to go were supposed to say not only their boringly outraged but it want to do something about it by taking back control to current point of phrase and run their own affairs then politics becomes polluted north of the border but what about the other scope of the early in the in the times that kerry mccaskills writing about than the pully early period the time robert burns of course is the great radical people spoil it for the 1820 year rising theres another scotland the scotland who are firmly attached to the the the state of the United Kingdom of firmly in charge there has to be said of scotland and even the present the 2nd party of scotland is no longer the labor. But the conservative party were foremost a quarter of the vote there is a another scholar who likes to equate content with the state of the later kingdom and its nature of its politics even with black certain barely examples hopelessly radical forces of the National Movement reach out to that scotland of the beyond the pale well when the great turke radical poor human dermod. One of the founders of the s. N. P. And he used to talk about used to write about this these these 2 halves of the scottish psyche that we are we are radicals on the one hand when we act collectively have some more out ridge but as individuals we can be quite doer and conservative and when we dont see a way forward we tend to get very very candid inward looking and that leads to conservative politics i think some of also goes back to the fact that when when when when the act of Union Happened something of some in scotland joint joined in with the rest of you key rather against its will part of the deal was that much of scouting was left in the hands of a very narrow conservative establishment and whenever they get in control they tend to support the status quo so look back to as recently as 1955 general asian majority a majority of scots voted tory which you would think unusual from todays perspective but that usually reflects a p. D. Of questions when where one individual scots are demoralized dont know where to go politically and then they suddenly they wake up and they get angry there are these 2 schools but what always dominates in the end is this really is radical sense of fairness and Justice Social justice and that always triumphs i think in the end but how could the vote i have struggles of radical politics in scotland with the electoral preeminence of the s. N. P. Are they quite happy with that or are some people walking for stronger policies in terms of the radical position theres a mood of. I mean ive heard most people talk about you know looking back to the 1920 s. Where after the great light side which Kenny Macaskill wrote about very very eloquently the independent labor party 0 pm piece and elected on the back of the Great Movement and read it after the 1st world war and when they way down to westminster when they distanced juice themselves to making speeches they made a nuisance of themselves they were raged they were stuck in a chamber that was unwilling to do anything about mass unemployment and mass hunger was a feeling up here that now today in scotland. Maybe maybe the maybe the kind of anger that the the red clay site has showed that we need that anger back again in the chambers both at holyrood in westminster and degrading politics of feminism in that these forces part of this great radical coalition and thats the arc of that great radical caution hold together i think the coalition has to hang together as a hang separately to remember an old phrase there are new forces in play and i i was out of a Mass Assembly the other week called by an Organization Called all the one banner which is the organization has been organizing the mass demonstrations that weve seen in scotland over the last. 18 months the biggest demonstrations i have seen in my lifetime calling for independence and that the this this assembly which had delegates from all across colton there was a lot of talk about what we need to bring together the movement against Climate Change with the movement for independence because weve got one weve only got one nation we want to go one earth and only people are going to look after scotlands environment are the scots themselves and for that they need to have independence so theres a very clear understanding in the movement that it has to be asked to act together and theres lots of discussion going on at the moment that maybe the time has come for the different organizations in the movement or under one banner well. The Independence Foundation and all the all the local yes groups which are no very prominent theres a hunger and feeling that they need to come together in some way and organize themselves separately from the elected politicians in the various chambers and we need to move beyond talk to action or you make the point about these great huge demonstrations taking place in scotland but often need this in to be taken place not with the sanction of the s. N. P. Leadership but many in the s. N. P. Leadership or some at least a little bit lelie of these demonstrations are not quite sure if its the the right thing to do as strongly example of a Grassroots Movement uprising a sort where well fight the big out of your eyes by a fish a leadership is that a good thing or a bad thing. Well its a good thing in the sense that nobody is you know nobody is sitting in front of the telly waiting for some elected member some elected politician to tell them what to do the ordinary working class courts are getting out there not just you know once a year but theyre getting out there month after month after month demonstrating last year we had a whole bunch of demonstrations 200000. 00 people marching flags waving through red the next big demonstration is in april in our booth. Commemorating the declaration of arbroath which is really the kind of written foundation of scotlands demand for nationhood or on the basis the april the 6th declaration of theft and 20 the declaration of arbroath some people argue is the the fostered one sation of the the concept of popular sovereignty of scottish days but the the right of the community of the realm to take action you positively are confident that the community of the realm of scotland is going to find its way forward well if only to go back to that very very incidents you know go back to 1320 i mean the declaration of our both as it was written by by the barons by the norman barons and the whole initial Scottish Independence movement was a veritable peasant uprising it was political and it was from below just that the the big barons took advantage of it so the scots way back till then have been you know have been a people who are asserting from below their right to be a nation were still fighting and i think will go on fighting until that nation is reestablished hopefully soon but my old shooter professor geoffrey bottle told me once a long time ago that the key phrase of the declaration was the capability of the elves uppity again george scalable is the community of the realm of scotland you think its and fame fertile to progress its case you know youre were off our knees and were fighting yes hope to see everyone watching our breath thank you or was george. When one thinks of the history of radical scotland one thinks of the brave party as a person wallace done to the bad quite status of the 1920 s. And thirtys Kenny Macaskill argues that there is a thread running through Scottish History and the history of radicalism and scottish nationalism i deeply intertwined from the friends of the people to the early Labor Movement in scotland all heights who rule at the top of their masjid and i scotlands modern spring to radicalism faces an equally triumphant english populism opus johnson on the brick city years however with the s. N. P. Now electorally dominant over the country are todays radical forces fully comfortable on to that independence banner or are they restless for the more radical approach and what of the other scotland the one which is deuce and conservative could some of their still substantial numbers except Scottish Independence but fear politics of the left in the ability to reconcile these forces lies the future of the nation. Next week we tell the story of a remarkable journalist too short to fade 20 years ago when she was captured by the taliban alex speaks to formally and feinstein what shes doing but for night from alex myself and all of the shoot is good bye i mean hope to see you thank you thank you. Thank. You. Yes this is all the. Yeah. The midnight