Finally well my says shame on the British Government and i for my scottish justice sick to Kenny Macaskill m. P. Has built up a formidable reputation as an author before entering the Westminster Parliament in the december election their lover polis the 3rd longest serving Prime Minister but this time to frame to 797 hes back to recall because he was a British Military commander when the massacre of trying to place a trail main women and children were slayed because youre posed their position of conscription. The Prime Minister or we have liverpool was then the military commander for the Central Scotland he wasnt responsible for the order to fire but he does culpable and indeed took the blame according to the lord of the group but he obviously read on to greater things and became the Prime Minister and they keep trying to alex speaks to heaven about his newly released volume on scotlands radical history this deals with the p. D. From the french revolution to the radical rising of 820 kind of classical welcome back to the alex salmond shell know little of some advantages to all this book writing and in the they help you with the material as well just season 4 here your 1st speeches and the house of commons what was the massacre adults and then put in your constituency it was a military atrocity that became a state covered up it was to militia violence that took place all over scotland and 797. 00 people objected to conscription being brought in as the me out a choir of soldiers for the polio wards and also to quiet soldiers for as they put it internal tranquility which was a euphemism for replacing the people who had been inspired by the french revolution some 12 people were killed does that mean. Frankly ran amok in my small constituency in the link that i was happy to point to my maiden speech was that the military commander than 1797 was the end all of liverpool who became the Prime Minister and ironically as i conclude my boot was played minister at the time of the 820 rising who oversaw the hanging and then the beheading of be a target in wilson scottish martyrs for some of our scottish and onslaught look up was also the the target of the cattle street conspiracy at that time but you know most members of Parliament Making the 1st speech in the house of commons the latakia but the dream is wirelessly the lovely countryside the dhoti people of the constituency that not many people to the fair to the repression the massacre of well part of this is trying to court the radical memory in what is a sport perhaps inspired me for the book because it became quite clear that after the 820 writing there was a concerted effort by the establishment to the Court History as they saw it because after all all history is recorded to some extent by the victors and scotland hasnt been afford an invading army its been a lot and ladies and the radicals saw streets going down into the one of those to frederick to Princes Street talk to top of this or statues to wellington to nelson and to others the lords and ladies the desperate henry didnt last and that was an enemy the some advantages also having a. Regnum between your period just the sectors go on the member of the Scottish Parliament and newly elected as a member of the westminster pub youve written 7 booths all of which of a constant theme in scotland radical history of boulder fee of jimmy reed and no this latest book is scotlands radical history between the pulled on it wars and the 820. 00 rising which youve just referred to why did you choose that period fielitz glasgow 1900 group was inspired partly by those who conspired jim you didnt the right have laid claim to say but do not reception became. Quite clear that scotlands radical roots went far beyond the way back youre working your way but went back to 17 ninetys into Thomas Beauty became quite clear that thomas butin speired those who fought and rose in 820 thomas moore was the the radical of the early seventys ninetys who famously was transported to to a still year became the the worlds most wanted man as he was hunted voted the globe by the british ended up in revolutionary france was plotting an invasion of scotland another radical rising one unfortunately he died a very calamitous heroic figure and of course as you point to the rabbit with all the station in edinburgh as a monument you cant miss and count cemetery that is published it was about thomas meudon the other scottish martyrs ironically 3 of the 5 of whom were english i think a lot of people of scotland dont realise that we fought together albeit distinctively and scotland but thomas obl asc and i think that she was part reason why ive written this book because i read an article from stiliyan academic that pointed out the difficulties in even picking that mark memorial up because after 820 when all these statues to lawton ladies in the greater good of the budgeting British Empire were going up there was a desire to record the radical past that was being written out so they decided to try and put the obvious can top of cotton hill in edinburgh that would be invisible to all and sundry in the council objected the wind a cult and cemetery and some of the tories litigated because they thought this would disturb the peace of the dead including obviously humans mausoleum thats within the same cemetery but they were overcome that and thats why it was unveiled in the early forties to show that there was a different history to the statues to the lords and ladies but that 70 itself indication of to scotlands because of not bob but within yards of the mule and the other friends of the people. Those david humes muslim as you rightly say you are youd have to disclose david hume one of the fathers of the enlightenment as the as the radical in the sense that he wanted to see uprisings are against the established authority well i dont think its either or i think its both i think its right that we should have statues as well as the mostly and to david hume but i also think we should record the radical poster in the radical memory and sadly Scottish History has tended to focus upon some of the romantic aspects of bonnie prince charlie and many queen of scots and its not focused on those that were driving forward the history of a better scotland because after the 820. 00 those who were executed but youd been transported to came by and the evil revered infected by the chartists killed hard in the fledgling Labor Movement marx tobias included symbiosis have been used in each in 20 rising of scotland free on a desert that followed on to the red clay inside us thats why as were seeing eliot the radical roots of scotland dont just go back through jimmy reed to replace 8 they go back to thomas moore and to that time when the french revolution ignited the working people of scotland who saw for the 1st time that there was another we that it wasnt just a Promised Land and havent that there could be a different we here on the earth how do you reconcile the figures of the late many of whom like Adam Smith David Hume came from humble upbringing but had the patronage of the of the establishment of the lords and ladies often the shooters as happened in the the working class radical that the skilled tradesmen who of the the canon often supported of course by the radical lawyers like yourself is that the latent scotland fitten the great figures many of whom came from very humble origins or they did they continued to come through the even through the British Empire people who wait to broaden the great works came from very humble backgrounds but i think what we saw as we moved out of the enlightenment in the 18th century we saw the beginnings of the rise of the industrial age. And thats why Manufacturing Processes were coming in more perhaps in england in manchester and london than in scotland but weaving industry was taking off and it was changing and long before the the miners became the bible of the scottish Labor Movement it was the weavers they were after zines they didnt consider themselves as perhaps as what king man but they were educated they were literate these were people who saw that the french revolution offered a different way so they were of the working class made good they didnt have the patronage of the lords and ladies and indeed they wanted to challenge them so i think that history runs in palo the problem scotland is weve tended to ignore them and concentrate on the lords and ladies but the very few people know who. I would think would had we been dust the toting figure of. The Prime Ministership of young to run scotland for put the younger was the last the westminster politician to be preached and its a bentley for mafia souls in the levy he was accused of but the wealthy people would regard their history. As the be all and end all but a lot of people would argue the terms of impact on humanity the latent figures for more impact than the the working class for girls like lakeview or b. Of them hard defeated 20 as their legacy really hard that sort of that you could claim for adam smith from the wealth of nations or the moral philosophy of the would you or i think recording the light. Is necessary and vital i dont necessarily think that henry didnt dast or king had any he was a despotic figure and indeed i think his contribution to the British Empire was shameful in many ways given that people spawned action being taken against slavery he basically ran scotland as a despot he was in control of Something Like 410 to 43 tory m. P. s that one statement. Scotland he ran it as an oligarchy on behalf of landlords sometimes i look at the names of the rich landlords that he represented and i look at the house of lords and they want to ship of land in scotland and i wonder whats changed after all these years so i think i pretend dyson a different category than i would for example you know Adam Smith David Hume and its the people that challenge the dice that need to be recorded thats why the bicentenary of the 820 rising when the henry didnt dass were taken on is so important because didnt dast and his nephew the lord advocate also so i dashed robert and asked were shameful going back to the massacre to meant you read the state archives they knew it was a military trial city they covered up the only person to be prosecuted worked in fact a magazine that ran a letter from one of the victims would do it or would do or who told 4 top and and they were sued for defamation but one of the military. Officers involved so they knew what had happened they covered it up and that was why they were building got a sense all across Central Scotland because they knew that the people of scotland didnt as we know you see in terms of hornblower and chopped if you francis the enemy the in 1794 as with thomas you saw france as an opportunity for working people ordinary people to control the room late in destiny but would it be the case that people like the 820. 00 models they would have peeling to working class people across britain as they put it in the proclamation case that we were actually looking perhaps as the labor party has done looking for for a change of course these islands as opposed to seeing scotland as a distinct entity i think its both i mean scotland was a distinct entity scotland was a different country different laws Different Church even the language was significantly different people will spoke english and who lived in their own world because transport and mass media hadnt come along but said. What we were fighting for was universal franchise which was based that way spencer because lets remember that the franchise in the seventys ninetys in scotland was available to 4000 people it was reckoned that half of them were fictitious and this was a country that had a population approaching 2000000 this wasnt a democracy it was an oligarchy of landlords or graeme story of the election the. Fantastic story of the constituency then as you move the drug to scotland busa butte ross and cromarty which extended dont east coast of scotland where there was an election and the election was to take place in ross in the aisle of butte because of bad weather there was only one candidate on the island and he tom dont know only to be the only candidate but the only voter and without any sense of shame of irony he normally to themself he then 2nd himself in a different capacity being a local bartley he voted for himself he then had them self declared the winner by the sheriff and off he went to waste minister that was democracy in the 1790s i think probably what will see today is has silence and has probably sitting in the house of lords. Thank you thank you. Scoldings tragical history could fill many volumes and by the saying of it Kenny Macaskill may yet contribute a few more join us after the break when we bring the story of politics of scotland buying up to date well see that. What weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy to for him to let it be an arms race off and spearing Dramatic Development only really im going to resist i dont see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. To these policymakers are grown accustomed to the idea that every single problem can be solved with money printing why cant we solve the coronavirus of money printing the market now its starting to scratch just had a little bit saying wait a minute thats insane so therefore valuations look like theyre going to be marked down already in correction territory on these markets down 10 percent are going to have to bear market valuations down 20 percent probably i think the likelihood is extremely high already have a 50 to 60 percent drop thats probably a 10 to 20 percent probability. Welcome back off the name p. K. Mccaskill has released a bit on scotlands radical political history but to other radicals now in scottish politics be winning or losing alex to someone who is both a libra kind sir and then i simply m. P. Economists and called nest george could have been. Just kind of and follow the lead of this love for law school its national be associated with a number of left of center left leaning groups through the last generation of scottish politics what do you think of the scathing macaskill thesis of the us or radical thread running through scottish politics over the last couple of centuries how alex and thanks for having me back and yes you remind me you and i have been through a few organizations together on the radical left candidate can recast is doing as a Great Service i dont know where he finds the time but hes churning out of these books and what hes doing hes recovered a whole a whole red line of history radical history its called and go way back several 100 years a line that right down to the present day did can you just been elected to westminster from from radical islam then i hope you will find the time to go on writing so thats various titles through the last couple 100 years that radical forces of coalesced behave in the either a Movement Like the flames of the people or the 820 rise at a Political Party in the 20th century like the independent labor party and though the the essay of be how credible is that an argument i think when theres a kind of religious tradition we call it began socially and in religious communities where people may every week and they discuss the bible and they discussed that because the Old Testament where the kings of israel were held to account if they didnt to do right by the people and by morality and i think that that tradition. Is deeply beauty in Scottish History and even more than this little more days the revival of nationalism in scotland and a radical left in scotland actually began in the 1960 s. It began with the Folk Music Movement and people marching against against Nuclear Missiles were in the client and recovering their old. Theyre old folk songs and putting new lyrics on to them and that then morphed into opposition to the then parables labor government and that led to the the occupation at a quite shipbuilders and in opposition in 1000 seventies to the turn of mass unemployment or all of this traditionally was from below and its quite often the case is the politicians who have to react to the people rather than the other way around and the healthiest movements and parties but not the most powerful personally of miley is to unite the Labor Movement with the National Question has that been the the secret of various statements different parties different forces coming to preeminence a scottish politics we just had a general election and in scotland the left party its gained Something Like 2 thirds of the popular vote in the rest of europe the left wing parties collectively in any election are lucky if they get up to 45 percent so theres a deep movement and once what i think puts called ahead of the game rest of europe is the combination of a revulsion at her stare t. Combined with a desire for our independence for scotland to take back its ancient wait of of selfdetermination so youre absolutely right when the 2 come to go were supposed to say not only that theyre boringly outraged but it want to do something about it by taking back control to current point of phrase and run their own affairs then politics becomes polluted north of the border but what about the other scotland in the in the times that kerry mccaskills writing about the napoleonic period the time robert burns of course is the great radical people spoil it for the 1820 a rising theres another scotland the scotland who are firmly attached to the the the state of the United Kingdom for firmly in charge it has to be said of scotland and even the present the 2nd party of scotland is no longer the labor. But the conservative party were foremost a quarter of the vote there is a another scholar who likes to equate content with the state of the later kingdom and its nature of its politics even with black certain barely examples hopelessly radical forces of the National Movement reach out to that scotland of the beyond the pale well i mean the great radical poor human dermod. One of the founders of the s. N. P. And when he used to talk about used to write about this these these 2 halves of the scottish psyche that we are we are radicals on the one hand when we act collectively have some more out ridge but as individuals we can be quite doer and conservative and when we dont see a way forward we tend to get very very candid inward looking and that leads to conservative politics i think some of also goes back to the fact that when when when when the act of Union Happened 7 of 7 when scotland joint joined in with the rest of you key rather against his will part of the deal was that much of scott was left in the hands of a very narrow conservative establishment and whenever they get in control they tend to support the status quo so look back to as recently as 1955 general asian majority a majority of scots voted tory which you would think unusual from todays perspective but that usually reflects a p. D. Of questions when where one individual scots are demoralized dont know where to go politically and then they suddenly they wake up and they get angry there are these 2 schools but what always dominates in the end is this really this radical sense of fairness and Justice Social justice and that always triumphs i think in the end but how could tell the vote i have struggles of radical politics in scotland with the electoral preeminence of the s. N. P. Are they quit happy with that or are some people walking for stronger policies in terms of the radical position theres a beautiful stream. I mean ive heard most people talk about you know looking back to the 1920 s. Where after the great light side which Kenny Macaskill wrote about very very eloquently the independent labor party 0 pm piece and elected on the back of the Great Movement and read it after the 1st world war and when they way down to westminster when they distanced bruce themselves to making speeches they made a nuisance of themselves they were raged they were stuck in a chamber that was unwilling to do anything about mass unemployment and mass hunger was a feeling up here that now today its cold and that maybe maybe the maybe the kind of anger that the the red clay site has showed that we need that anger back again in the in the chambers both at holyrood in westminster both degreed in politics feminism in the these forces part of this great radical coalition and thats the arc of that great radical course and hold together i think the coalition has to hang together as a hang separately to remember an old phrase there are new forces in play and i i was out of Mass Assembly the other week called by an Organization Called all the one banner which is the organization has been organizing the mass demonstrations that weve seen in scotland over the last. 18 months the biggest demonstrations i have seen in my lifetime calling for independence and that the this this assembly which had delegates from all across colton there was a lot of talk about what we need to bring together the movement against Climate Change with the movement for independence because weve got one weve only got one nation we want to go one earth and only people are going to look after scotlands environment are the scots and selves and for that they need to have independence so theres a very clear understanding in the movement that it has to be asked to act together and theres lots of discussion going on at the moment that maybe the time has come for the different organizations in the movement or under one banner well. The Independence Foundation and all the all the local yes groups which are no very prominent theres a hunger and feeling that they need to come together in some way and organize themselves separately from the elected politicians in the various chambers and we need to move beyond talk to action where you make the point about these great huge demonstrations taking place in scotland but often need this him to be taken place not with the sanction of the s. N. P. Leadership of many in the s. N. P. Leadership or some at least a little bit lelie of these demonstrations are not quite sure if its the the right thing to do as strongly example of a Grassroots Movement uprising or sit where we fight the big out of your eyes by a the fischel leadership is that a good thing or a bad thing. Well its a good thing in the sense that nobody is you know nobody is sitting in front of the telly waiting for some elected member simulator politician to tell them what to do the ordinary working class courts are getting out there not just you know once a year but theyre getting out there month after month after month demonstrating last year we had a whole bunch of demonstration 200000. 00 people marching flags waving through red the next big demonstration is in april in our booth. Commemorating the declaration of arbroath which is really kind of written foundation of scotlands demand for nationhood on the basis the april the 6th declaration of theft and 20 the declaration of arbroath some people argue is the the fostered one sation of the the concept of popular sovereignty or scottish days to the right of the community of the realm to take action you positively are confident that the community of the realm of scotland is going to find this way forward well and to go back to that very very incidents you know go back to 1320 i mean the declaration of our both as it was written by by the barons by the norman barons and the whole initial Scottish Independence movement was a veritable peasant uprising it was political and it was from below just that the the big barons took advantage of it so the scots way back till then have been you know have been a people who are asserting from below their right to be a nation were still fighting and i think will go on fighting until that nation is reestablished hopefully soon but my old shooter professor geoffrey bottle told me once a long time ago that the key phrase of the declaration was the capability of the elves uppity again george scalable is the community of the realm of scotland you think its in fame fertile to progress its case. You know youre all were all for me is that were fighting yes hope to see everyone watered our breath thank you it was george when one thinks of the history of radical scotland one thinks of their brave party as a person wallace done to the bad quite sages of the 1920 s. And thirtys Kenny Macaskill argues that there is a thread running through Scottish History and the history of radicalism and scottish nationalism i deeply intertwined from the friends of the people to the early Labor Movement in scotland all had to move at the top of their boss tate and i scotlands modern swing to radicalism faces an equally triumphant english populism opata strong stand on the brake city years however with the s. N. P. Now election a dominant over the country are todays radical forces fully comfortable under that independence banner or are they restless for the more radical approach and what of the other scotland the one which is deuce and conservative could some of their still substantial numbers except Scottish Independence but fear politics of the left in the ability to reconcile these forces lies a feature of the nation. Next week we tell the story of a remarkable journalist too short to fade 20 years ago when she was captured by the taliban alex speaks to formally and feinstein what shes to ignite it for night from alex myself and all of the show is good bye and we hope to see that you. Thank you. Thank. You. And were going to fulfill the repeated promises apologise to the people and come on you know we will butts be. Pretty. Pretty good. Now you want to 1st correct that. No. Ball 5 be cut. This hours headlines stories the escalation in syria will be the focus of the talks in moscow between the russian leaders this thursday and a surge in fighting is not to leave their forces closer to a. It seems lawmakers brawl in parliament. In turkey claims greek forces opened fire on refugees in their shared border leading to the death of greece strongly deny the allegations. Increasing. Migrants to try and cross into the. On the new front runner in the u. S. Democrats race to take