Use so stupid im going to get at that and the shadowy m i 5 s is like the f. R. U. In a 2nd lets go back a bit and go back to how you became a spike as he left the army. And some ago Alan Reece Morgan said he has wanted you to go home and spy on your neighbors and friends put you in place before Harold Wilson is elected yes and why would you join the British Colonial power that was responsible of as you say in the book they were the are you see in particular raided your own mothers house well youre a catholic when i when i when i grew up on the craig in the state and there was no work for young men like me. Your name for example was seen to it and the school you went to did you didnt get a deal because the protestants run the system in the north. So it was unusual for a young man of my age to join the army because our fathers have been in the army me im i was born in 1040 its on a war p. P. And when i got to my regiment i discovered there were 25 young navy spend the same as me whod left fail fast and very to join the british army so that was an unusual ok it will be seen is unusual maybe on in the end derry around 177 the republicans they enter what you call an anti capitalist phase tell me about you witnessing that because. You didnt seem to support their anticapitalist phases around the time the ira killed jeffrey i gate of juda want to point of course in from as for supplying agent orange vietnam which killed a thing a war that killed 4000000 somebody made the decision some where the thumb people time the normal as our society in north with big factories and lots of jobs was the wrong way to go on i remember really well been at home one night on a knock came to the door and my neighbor said to me this young guy here looking for your sister. And i think is the trouble so we brought him and we looked after him as it turned out that she was one of the people that was involved in the murder of geoffrey i get. I mean even his murder caused mayhem all the across america when when president carter even said he knew it was a disgrace. Dewpoint was a drunk and to convey that bloke supplier so shortly after you met Martin Mcguinness you notice gerry adams is trying to promote him politically trying to get him away from the Armed Struggle tell me about. And then surely it was very in those with a cause Martin Martin was it was o. C. Of Northern Command at the time. And we were we were in the sort of like the tracks on the one hand shane finn was developing epis and it was in baby stage you know we were paper sellers we collected only for the present dependence on reserve. You know all the facing us is that. But it became noticeable after a while that gerry adams seemed to have this for say of want to take the movement down a different route. Not necessarily to the peach route the turner road where they could get some traction out of the British Government and. Indeed to get martin on board with it martin again as a long Journey Towards peace will never happen just so back then youre talking with these high powered people in the Republican Movement and theyre what youre flying over to london and meeting Stella Rimington at a hotel in west london alan raised morgan introduced her to me as more as i like very knowledgeable politics music of the tell me that heath wont last for votes and will be on again i mean you see. The f. R. U. Which im trying to get you the 1st loosely allied to the as a as a vic the guy who ran it was going to gordon carvey as a yes but gee did you get the feeling that this colonel that alone stiller rimington they were politically against wilson against the left knowing to know. All i knew was that somewhere in the background behind the body politic there was a movement or a group of people who seem to think. This could lead to deification of ireland. But we need to get these guys on board they need to be politics before we can deal with them because if we try to say a lot to the politicians theyll say theyre terrorists we cant deal with them its just its difficult to explain. Its as if there were people behind the scenes who really wanted the unification of ireland and they seen this as an opportunity within the intelligence of absolutely absolutely im pretty sure they were denied because they then go on the record i think equally unbelievable arguably is that you were shocked at the murder of a census worker yes a young mother but this is in the context of saving a 15 year old paul with hers killed by the hour you see in april 981. 00 around the time of joy and mothers there were times that. I had worked with what could be called divided loyalties almost nightly sure here i was an undercover soldier trying to focus on what i was sent there to but i kept seeing these things that contradicted the whole can a back story of what i. Mean for example you enlisted in the air for you after that kill and yes what happened was i left m i 5 in 1980 december 1000 needed they just cant go back to shun fate and say listen i want to leave it to you just dont do it so obvious sounds was on Hunger Strike on the election and from minus 0 to long came up and there was an effort to get them elected and i spent a lot of time and for mana and so turned on. Canvas and put da posters get in early for the day of the election and i came home and i was sitting at home and. My mother said to me theres a young girl comment on the steps and i think shes crying so she went to the front door and let her and then she came and she was shaken. And it just became clear straight away that this young girl was a census collector and that what happened was she had a clipboard and on the right hand save the clipboard was called in the scale the estate they lived on a republican area and its all blocked out in red for not to go near there this is the 981 british censors that republicans all across the 6 counties were told do not you know with this colonial sense of correct she was a Young Farmers wife in fact she was doing what she was doing to earn 5 pounds a day and one day or a shot her they showed a young girl that was earning 5 phones of the she was killed for a fiver when bobby signed sans m. P. Yes i dont Hunger Strike their streets named after him or the world did you meet bobby sands if you meet Francis Hughes no no but then names they meant nothing to you well in terms of any kind of revolutionary and dario you never heard it out we never heard of bobby sands and fact i mean i dont even know it was green booked in other words if he was a fully fledged member of various. Books but when he dated cause shock waves in the north and everybody all around the world all i mean people came from they said the cardinal from roll nice and politicians from dublin and from london. And them and francis hes i remember there was some dont make 800000 people went developer sounds as if you know there were francis she stayed. There was a concerted effort to make sure that there wasnt that kind of throw night so the body was ordered to be taken away to his family or no one was allowed to get near it it was buried with just a few 100 people at the gravesite and it was said there on the b. B. C. It will break and the support is staying away well stop you there more from will he call him and my 5 agents after this break. I am. Rather they have to as he should be. One of the few more so can be and what because. This mean what i mean i will me and nothing. But the sea of. What i was was a. Dumb move to move to remain. Peaceful if. Only in the spirit john in that these images of him said some people watch musical blood from a priest in the. Winter is it and there have none removed can you. Here michel i. Am in a trance most in the operations understand that the cost of doing business is buying and Building Support in washington d. C. And that includes staffing up with former members of congress put them on your payroll you want to hire a chief of staff from a powerful senator or a committee. Member get their chief of staff put them on your payroll as a lobbyist this is what washington does on a bipartisan basis in fact i think its the only point of true bipartisanship in d. C. Is corporate influence over government. Welcome back im still with forma and i 5 agent with a column ok what is the force Research Unit you are their assets i dont know what they paid you if you tell who they paid you what exactly is the force Research Unit there have been submissions to the United Nations about it as a death squad the 1st assertion that was. A team of people that worked very early on the growing behind the backs of the british army. And that surely it was so it was set up to gather information and to run agents. To infiltrate even the e. V. F. Until only agents and gather intelligence but as time went on agents thats where workin for the 1st were volunteers were going to cost the confirmation positions. They were all the agents and the same units so no we had to be agents both men both free and former. Inevitably what happened was one started to kill the old. Which sounds crazy but it did happen and eventually we get the steak knife. It was also a free agent and he is know now i understand freddies scupper teachy steak knife denies it well of course you would. He saved your life though theyll never get going to say theres no theyll never get a man to court because the minister of defense the one of the court because if he goes into court and he starts to talk about information he passed to the free pass to his 100 peter it passed it to colonel care who passed it to the minister of defense i mean her a oped as a scope im new here we had a guy who was an ira van killing ira volunteers. And a load to do it let him get on with it an exaggeration to say that one in 4 members of the ira around this time were members of the British Security services i would say 300 agents yeah i mean i would say that towards the end whenever we got very close to the good friday agreement when mckennas anonymous and everybody was running the table i believe that martin was short. And or a devoted way the state of play on the groaned within the ira not names but just roughly how many people in the area right off to the top are british agents and i think he knew them you know the ratings on the war were not going he won this and i think thats way the same golf and this is wiles m i 5 are being infiltrated by the russians they have agents their own agents killing each other whilst being in the ira yes and all the time your working in that is and thinking this is a job but i mean. I was in the difference 8 i was on i was on the political side for the view one thing you learn aversion fein and the ira even today is that the higher up you go with fear the next thing you know youre sitting at meetings astonishing fin meeting anymore its often half the setting was a or a volunteers the set was a or a commanders you know and thats when you realize these 2 are want i mean even today weve got the Peace Process weve got Mary Lou Mcdonald weve got michelle in need weve got all these people but the ira army consul are still in place the area me consul is the ared of the Republican Movement and they dictate what happens with them the political opposition very completely deny that so the f. Or you going back to this because this is a submission to the United Nations i mean 864 civilians were killed around this time by loyalist paramilitaries and linked to the air for you estimates so therefore he was responsible for 15 dead do you do you think there could be any truth was it a death squad you were working for many have to understand that. My understanding is that steak knife would where possible tailless under the im going. To get this guy because we have an information that is an informer american interrogate him there were times when he got there the guy was gone but there were times and when he got there at the person was there and he was able to left them interrogate them and shoot them now i often wonder will i think i told my under that we were going to do this. And when i get there is there issued live in their way wasnt removed i mean what do you think about the fact that the family that we do of pat finucane the civil rights lawyer who represented people on both sides of the community when invited to downing street David Cameron took her aside by the window and said there are dark forces in this british establishment and this is ive done more for you than any other Prime Minister would the trying to get to the bottom of the most people believe British State sanctioned murder of a civil rights lawyer well of course i mean the guy in new vs expertise army. Is the one that went and shot the nikken. And he was an agent of the free. Eventually was taken out of the north of ireland. When he was on trial they dropped the murder charts and they went for conspiracy to murder and he was flown out of the natick of belfast after 4 years in prison and. He was really should be prosecuted because well the county vision is settled in carter and he died and falling off during any of his so since did again the one should be prosecuted here for these historical crimes against the un charter as a very difficult question. Its one of those things that i mean if youre the father of the mahler of someone who was murdered in the north of course you know you want justice at the same time if that leads or could lead to things open up in the way as fear or. People and politics dont want. To be to mrs thatcher took a special interest in the air for you group you outlined the fact that she was specifically interested in in this group she would have been aware of these atrocities she would have been briefed that the war against terrorism has been won and that there is a unit on the growing gallery intelligence and knowledge and also the f. R. U. Did deals with apartheid south africa did you ever have a gun the african can know that you know of any air for you people that had south african guns you know theres been a lot of stuff about how arms smuggling was done with the connivance of m i 5 these are the other gauges from arms traders and from apartheid south africa or arms corps the obviously fighting mills mandela is a learned thing that ever had i ever notice was i mean as the old soldier i mean i knew we had s. And g. s and we had writings but some of the hunters i had in the free had very strange looking weapons and they certainly werent weapons of war issued by the British Government i want to get on to talk about omar and i mean there has been previous allegations about f. B. I. Links to bomb making that was used by the f or you you talk about cia involvement. In effect in the omagh bombing 300 injured 29 dead. And of course the allegation that you make and others have made is that the r. U. C. Were tipped off about the omagh bombing ahead of time no doubt in my mind. Peter kelly. Is known as kevin fulton he was a young soldier in the areas rangers lived in neary and he was in the ira and his recruiters by the force of search and. To inform on his colleagues and. He was full on to america where he was 3 and in 02 produced of last will mean in that theres a bomb that goes off and then when the. The r. U. C. Turn up with their socalled team seems a crime of theirs and they start to take photographs flass camera sets off the bomb and kills more people so he was 3. 00 and 0 to do that and he was the one that invented in the north he also. Be working with the real or ever sam a 5 that took a moat to the north i think what they were looking for was for kevin to get more steam with than the unity was so it become you know promoted and higher up in the movement and as far as he was concerned he was working over the border near nana he was making bombs in the bombs or just been sent up into the north and on one occasion he was involved in making a bomb and a car came from the republic of ireland collected on the conversation he overheard led him to believe that this bomb was called duma. He got in touch with his handler and he told us under no easy officer that he believed there was going to be a bomb attack on norma no ive been present with peter kelly when he formed the handler asked him do you remember i told you about the bomb and clearly you could hear is unders in yes i do remember it but i will have to check my notes to find the information no strange thing has. The people who partake aaron will not put it in the wrong place they put or that the ball on the street instead of the top of the street so when the ball there came and all the people were driven going towards the ball towards the car and thats why so many people were killed but as far as peter was concerned he warned the hour you see that that was going to happen just as if the British Government oversee denies any involvement in the bomb completely they u. V. s were also set up by aces in the free korea town means and double in the korea time its a man to try and bring these forces together loyalists in the provinces in the north wanted more police and army on the border to stop ira volunteers bring in bombs over the border to place in strategic positions in the north and they tried to force the republics government to put boots on the ground to put army on the growing put police on the growing arms because they werent armed because if you had infiltrated the gutter absolutely in southern ireland yes and the thing was when someone got the bright idea that. These bans these musical bonds that are common from the republic to the north they might be carrying arms and ammunition over the border for the area to collect when theyre in the north the famous Miami Showband minutes ago and i know youre over there as well well the u. D. R. The soldiers involved got their uniforms from it was alleged from members of the force research and under the stop the may army van on this way down over the border got them all that the bomb went off to certain the static and the speakers coast aponte walling off too soon or in the wrong place there were no rules here you know everybody was doing what they thought they could do to to help this thing called to an end and there was a view that the only way this aint going to come to an end its got to get worse before it gets better and that seemed to be the view you know the British Government were involved the minister the defense were involved the r. E. C. Were involved i mean. All the evidence though because youre saying this 3 using all the evidence would have been burnt and some of the documentation here is not for release to 2049 some of the killings on these legacy issues do you think most of the evidence of the kind that would support your allegations of such atrocities wells all are destroyed. John stocker when he led the 1st investigation and the stake they found the f. R. U. He he was tainted by having holidays was some they say this was a deliberate Security Services or exhibition games on stevens called the law and he is doing well and he gathers the evidence and the evidence is burned down in the middle of night all the files all all 0 understanding of the john stevens Inquiry Office they did save the papers apparently it was a for you joe blow him down his office if you speak to him the 1st it was in the force of certain here going to make my ill tell you that it was an a tame from us foreign count that were sent over to burn not property i got to ask you know about the book itself did you know i have to get it vetted where the dino just man i gotta say my program completely on vetted by dean or just this guy dino just secretary have waste bottle andrew violence yeah well youre the book and cut out most of it well i have to say theres a lot in it that you wouldnt expect to be we really we thought that when it went up to the treasures of us or so that the intelligence and Security Committee could look at it we thought that most of it were very attack that we would be allowed to publish. Although i have to say you know here we have a lawyer sitting in london and hes paid to do a job. Whatever he feels should be taken and then my 5 lawyer yes so at the same time youve got these m. P. s because thats what they are sitting on intelligence and Security Committee a lot of them were very very little experience of the north and i dont think they would real lace by letting losses go that it was going to cause more gone because yes absolutely when the collins thank you notes it for the show will be back on wednesday 14 years to the day evil moran is was inaugurated as the 1st indigenous president of bolivia hes currently claiming asylum in argentina alternate she. Expect right wing coup forced to deal that get into conversational social media theres a scribe for the show on you tube. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy confrontation let it be an arms race is often very Dramatic Development only closely im going to resist i dont see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. Financial Survival Guide i dont fly i prize on a features. Of almost 5. As of last summer financial the future. Was kaiser. This is a story about what happens auster a stray bullet kills a young girl in the streets. What happens to her family and daughters in florida know the mother daughter is buried in a cemetery it really messes with your head what happens to the community the public was screaming for a scapegoat the Police Needed a scapegoat so why not choose a 19 year old black kid with a criminal record who better to pen this than him and what happens in court be. Shocked shocked as far as society we feel. We dont know shell just brutal. End of this trial unfortunately you too will still love no children. 6 i. See. For approving the. Woman with a fight. In the 1st such. A state of emergency