Military operations us military story so its really about this dialogue between the humanitarian protection perspective and the military necessity perspective now there has been no one has been lambasted more for supposing disregard total disregard of the humanitarian law down the syrian authorities and i take it from some of your interviews that this phrase total disregard may not be accurate in describing the stance of the of the Syrian Government in fact i know that the i. C. R. C. Has done a study looking specifically into where when the law was upheld and when it was broken in the syrian context do you understand now the drivers the incentives and the hurdles that allowed or not allowed the syrian authorities to respect the humanitarian the International Humanitarian or in the context wanting to. Very difficult you have to admit it was very difficult to respect that law i see or see is not the. Generalizing. Condemnations or generalizing preys on the International Humanitarian law we are very much aware and have been for 156 years and how of the complexity of the battlefields and the difficulties as technologies battlefields actors and contexts evolve to apply the basic rules of International Humanitarian law so each case has to be looked at the individually we dont have armed forces or armies or nonstate our crops just only does regarding International Humanitarian law this happens very very we dont have those who respect perfectly so we do recognize that the syrian context has always been a difficult complex its a context of fragmented actors of multiple actors of unclear chains of command. Certainly on the level of nonstate armed groups but even complex chains of commands in the syrian. On the side of the syrian army we have seen the complexities also with russias involvement in syria of how you partner with. Amongst 2 armies and where are they are also the responsibility of each one of those armies and i think this workshop that you have alluded to is a great opportunity to look at someones dislike for just will not be publicized trying to get some information out here for the benefit of the general audience you you mentioned those principles that guide the legal use of force in an Armed Conflict one of those principles with the military in the south city as well and i think all the military is operating. On the syrian battlefield with claim that they take all these principles into account who is their job whether they do their proper it i think its not about together its not about the judgment its about not knowing generally its well its about is looking at your rules of media and then see what you can introduce in your Decision Making process to have at the end of the day better results i dont think that the end result is the effort off i see or see the process is the effort of i. C. R. C. Looking at what are the precautionary measures that you can introduce i give you an example. There is a big question today in armed forces on where you introduce for instance the lawyers the practitioners in the Decision Making process you can introduce them at the beginning you can give them a last word at the end whether a military attack is in conformity with the law you have different results you can for instance in urban warfare you can have longer or shorter or no warning periods for the civilian populations you have a lot of things you can do went which are completely below the rather screen of public controversy i think we have to go to the granularity of each and every issue and also to recognise there is nothing like virginity in in war it is always complex the balance is difficult and i think its about how do you. When you do reviews where you are to training when you to manuals how and what do you train to your troops but i think its also important to sort of call a spade a spade and throughout this conflict where hard times and times again that assad is killing his own people its a troll now that the Syrian Government is going on you hear it. But not from us. I mean the youre dealing with the conflict as it is not just as it relates to you but the in all its complexity and some forces like the Syrian Government have to deal with with the security challenges or pally other sides like the United States for example may authorize convert operations which may be. Do a lot of harm to this issue in population but make it much less visible thats why i am asking you who is there to judge whether the laws are applied fairly because you know that western powers for example made it part of their policy to diligent the mise the Syrian Government because of those allegations that the use of force that the disrespect for the humanitarian law is all abundant in syria with regard to i. C. R. C. Israel our role is not to judge our role is to facilitate a better implementation and to support states who have signed up to the Geneva Conventions in their effort there are as you know national and International Accountability structures which are here to deal with violations with serious violations with war crime with crimes against humanity you know what these structures are but deliberately i. C. R. C. Has stood the way from accountability processes i think still today the prevalent accountability has to rely on the national processes on the processes within armed forces to see whether their directive and their instructions have been respected and in case you also know that there is an International Criminal court there are procedures internationally to deal with war crimes and crimes against humanity but theyre only deliberately there are 2. With regard to the respect of International Humanitarian law and ours clearly with regard to our mandate from the Geneva Convention is the one on supporting and facilitating implementation and this is a different pathway. That itself let me ask you then a specific question because there is one battle been constantly perspective. In the syrian the war im talking about the battle over in flip and i heard you say that due to the interrelatedness between the civilian population and the rebels you personally cannot imagine how a lawful war can be waged in lip. Are you saying that an alternative that is leaving the station as it is where tens of thousands of extremism in terrorised by un stand there its waging attacks on the military on this of alien population in the state controlled areas is a better outcome should they should these guys just be left to their own devices when we will create 4 high of precautions in context were civilians and military is ours so we intertwined them when civilian and military infrastructure are so intertwined i think this is really the time for. Negotiations for. Alternative solutions you have seen for instance in the context of for their poll that the Russian Military negotiated for quite some time the evacuation of city there are no other areas these people could be evacuated to unless there are example switzerland wants to take their man this is exactly what the goshi asians are here for and i think it is important that even in the context of International Humanitarian law in view of the prevalent risk such complex situation in oregon warfare bude most school or easily eventually in the future that space is given to alternative solution to a massive military attack in or you know of a nereus we dont see that. This should not happen but what we do see a year is that the appropriate time and space has been given has to be given in order to find alternative solution for civilian populace whats left of our we have to take a short break now well be back in just a few moments stay tuned. Is your media a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe. Keisel a sure community. Are you going the right way or are you being led. Away. What is true what is. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Or remain in the shallows. So the stars inflation deflation they tend to hint at the connection between the finance economy and the real economy and sometimes the finance economy gets out of hand and you have crashes and sometimes the real economy gets out of hand then you have stagflation because wages are too high but sense 2000 and getting even more pronounced since 2008 we have 2 separate economies there bifurcated theres the privately owned Central Banks who print money for private the top 110th of one percent of private citizens and then we have the surf class or the neo feudal class and these 2 dont interact any. Specifics. About the harmony you can create on vibrating strings that is chemistry chemistry is the melody the melodies you can play on strings what is the universe the universe is is a symphony of. Things. Welcome back to worlds apart repeat them our president of the International Committee of their brother crossed mr mara just before the break we were talking you were talking about. The importance of negotiations and allowing safe spaces especially for the civilians and this is what has been done in the context of bleep for at least a year now but during that time the territory controlled by the new reincarnation of al qaeda in the province has increased from some 57 percent to around 4045 percent and these people continue launching attacks and harm the civilian population elsewhere when you advocate for that as for that small process for essentially ignoring the military necessity because there is a military need to take them out in directly privilege joining the civilians in rebel controlled areas it is part of International Humanitarian law that there must be a reasonable balance between military necessity and the protection of civilians if in the context like youd leave the protection concerns are sold visible so great and so preponderant it is important that in the balance is is factored in we cant have rules of war in the International Humanitarian law only following the logic of military necessity thats the very end of the in the war it all together no you certainly cannot ignore it and thats our point all together as you may need to review organize ation and as guardian of the Geneva Conventions that we are trying to. See through dialogue through human e tarion activity is there we of 1st space all so for deuce ponder rationed to be done that we try to be and to to advise countries than to talk crossed sexually and globally also tool learn from one battlefield stew the other what precautionary steps can be but we dont exclude military operations its the very essence and difference between a humanitarian of the Human Rights Organization now a few years ago i heard you say that the conflicts and in syria and iraq allowed the ice air of seats you develop and more sophisticated methodology for distinguishing between civilians and combatants einar still confident that the you can do that especially in this syrian contex than especially as it relates to you mine there is an younger man who may not have reached 18 young but her have been trained by their fathers to kill or who have witnessed killing i mean from the humanitarian point of you there there are civilians but from a Security Point of your they are her prison the madge bigger risk than their elderly granma serial have to agree to that well the i. C. R. C. In the its customary International Laws studies has proposed how to deal with the distinction of combatants and civilians and we have always maintain that it is the direct participation and the media see of diary participation which make a civilian the combatant and make the civilian lose it status so whether somebody is a minor but is carries a gun than these involved in a military operation doe he loses civilian status when hears a minor according to the Childrens Convention then we still have a preference who look at their all so victims who have been drawn by. Into this situation so its upon duration of the concrete realities that we have to be able to do or the present moment but i do not neglect. The the fact that a lot of young men below 18 have been weapons be averse in some of these conflicts and has been involved is a big challenge to International Humanitarian law it takes away the a certain stability that the International Humanitarian law had been previously in into a state of war fear and this is of course the new battlefield reality which is of concern to us now i think its also a challenge when it comes to your combatants you personally called for what i say is humane treatment of former combatants and subjecting them to a fair trial. How confident can you be in that somebody who invested 5 or 70 years of his life fighting alongside isis witnessing and participating in all the atrocities can ever become a former combatant. Well look our experience over the last decade and i would say over the last 100 years of clearly demonstrated and showed where the day yard prisoners of war combatants who came into the attention of state or nonstate on groups that are ill treatment of these people will lead to another sort of cycle of violence i think your main treatment of detainees is absolutely essential to break the vicious cycle of violence and to reintegrate those who have been involved in unlawful operations are brought back into society i think its evidence speaking about bringing them back to society its not a secret that there are now major tashas between the United States and europe including russia about what has to be done to those 5 areas and the United States wants them to be repatriated many western countries despite their normally very strident stance on human rights are not eager to do that the preferred option is simply to dump them in syria and i think thats partially because of the fear that their Legal Systems could train them to leave me in plea and that they could present a security challenge in the years to come dont you find that perhaps this is this is a bit ironic that this is what the syrian war has come to after years of lambaste in the Syrian Government for its choices western governments who now have more resources more advanced Legal Systems are not really eager to set an example and treat those combatants humanely and subject them to a fair trial well you have probably heard myself and i. C. R. C. Institutionally you have ok thing for all the countries who have detainees or have families of detainees in the camps at the present moment in in in syria may. All the efforts to pay their people back this is because theyre not feeding your calls so thats well we have 74000 people in the hole 6 months ago we have 68000 at the present moment there are around 11000. 00 are foreign nationals most of whom are believed to be former isis fighters nobody wants to nobody is rushing to take them on nobody is rushing to take him home because exactly of what you mentioned our argument is more humanitarian when i look at the situation in the camps for families when i look at the detention situation we do advocate that those countries will have the economy the possibility to do so and have probably despite all the security challenges still more leverage to do so help in voiding some of those camp or at least in easing the pressure i think we have still 30000 syrians we have still 30000 iraqi in and nationals in the camps of the 4 of the families and i think it is much more difficult to repatriate those people in the complex and the fragility of the syrian and iraqi context today and thats the reason why i have always advocated that you would appear in countries and others make an effort to ease the tension and to allow a better stability also in terms of humanitarian assistance in the kirby asked specifically about the whole because the station there may become even more precarious with the recent announcement of the american pullout and the looming turkish a fanciful on the areas that are. Still controlled by some of the kurdish groups do you have any concerns about what may transpire in that part of Northern Syria in weeks and months to come well obviously we are concerned by. This is the there by the new situation at the present moment we are the situation is much too fluid to even say whether yes or no or we do have access in the in those areas which are now. Under control of the Turkish Armed forces but i feel. The next few days have 1st to give us a clear picture on what the humanitarian impact is and then also to materialize and to see what are do you have a news with which on which we could have access but this is certainly our determination to continue the work we have done in the past and we hope that all the parties involved will offer us accesses and as we know the situation is as complex as ever in the north east and north west of syria now i heard you say in one interview that what distinguishes the syrian war is the sheer scale of destruction which will make life difficult for people for years to come when the white house still it is hopefully sees what do you make them of this very open very deliberate sabotaging of the iraq instruction operated by western governments and the tying of. International rock and structural funds just specific political outcomes i think its fair well you know the debate of the reconstruction which is has been forth in the open and which is basically a big debate which is not that the core of i. C. R. C. Is preoccupation that we are engaged in your many tyrian the efforts of the present moment and 1st things 1st i think looking at the dimensions of people displaced within syria and in the neighboring countries what needs to be done 1st i