A central plank support diadem and kind of problem right now so you stop to. Most people think to stand out in this business you need to be the 1st one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice or the biggest raid in truth to stand down the News Business you just need dance the right questions demand the right answer. Questions. Hello and welcome the crosstalk were all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle well and finally happened donald trump has been impeached by the house of representatives in complete opposition to what the founders had in vision the articles voted on were along party lines it is highly unlikely the senate will vote to remove the president from office so what is the point of this entire exercise. Talking trumps impeachment im joined by my guest david. He is a cultural critic and host of the radio show a Neighbors Choice in washington we cross to Richard Goodstein he is a democratic strategist and former Campaign Adviser to bill and Hillary Clinton right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate david i asked a very simple question at the end of my introduction it seems very unlikely that the republican and Republican Controlled Senate is going to vote on these articles of impeachment that is if nancy eventually gives it to them which we can actually talk about that right now as well i mean what is the point of this exercise outside of the exercise itself because its doomed to failure from what we understand about the members of the g. O. P. Caucus in the senate go ahead david. Well i think its christmas time in d. C. Nursing a lot of guilt for their various sins around this country the things theyve done to the American People or the things they do to the people abroad and they need a little scapegoat they need someone to cast their sins are into this christmas they need a christ figure apparently and thats what donald trump is serving for the vessel of their wrath or they can try to pent up and cast on his back look theyve been doing this since ancient times this is not something that started with the impeachment process this is a process that communities do since thousands of years of my studies of anthropology whenever theres times of tension whenever theres stewing envy in a community they need to find a scapegoat someone that they can say hey look you know i dont like each other here but at least were not that guy but the problem is its not going to work and its going to backfire ok reaching i mean i know your politics very well and i always like having you on the program but i mean what is the point of this exercise if the goal that they want to achieve is not going to be achieved go ahead richard. So the most recent fox news poll that you saw peter had 54 percent of the American Public saying donald trump should be impeached 50 percent peach and removed again he only got 46 percent of the vote so you now have people who voted for him who think he should be thrown out of office over what he did and the answer your question why are we doing this because it goes to the question of do we want Fair Elections or not because if we dont lend lets just call it a day let trump put the arm not just on the lenski but maybe because of his friend Bibi Netanyahu says hey bibi you know i love you man but ive got 3000000000. 00 of aid here but do me this favor you got a lot of smart guys here how about if you help me on the internet or he goes to president xi in china and says were going to make a great trade deal im actually give you much better that we agreed to but do me a favor but if you guys just put about a 1000000000. 00 worth on to facebook that helps me in back of my opponent because if we let this go that will happen ok ok but you know rick that will happen we can just go on to that no we dont what we i guess from the get go here i mean i know you read the telephone conversation with the ukrainian president i read it as well actually many times and you know what im going to show my sense of fairness here i can see how it can be read in a number of ways you know because thats very stream of consciousness i think it was inappropriate in some places it wasnt really kind of diplomatic talk that we would more expect but nonetheless again this doesnt rise to the occasion of impeachment here david i mean it seems to me when you know we went from a quid pro quo to bribery to. Obstruction of congress whatever that means we do have a judiciary i mean it seems to me this is a process for the process itself it is to humiliate from its to humiliate his followers of course liberal media loves a show this has its bread and circuses. What is the result how is that it be a good result you put all of this effort into it it goes from russia gate to ukraine gate and now we have were all up to the finish line and it that we dont get a goal here and it looks like everybody loses and i think the country loses going through this process go ahead do it right. Well look they want to project their sins on him and im not a truck guy thats not my thing i look at this and try to be as independent as possible but you know is that what the attorney john durham is investigating is this idea that the Previous Administration could have been working with other foreign country yeah you know theyre looking at australia and wait a 2nd what are they doing there theyre colluding with foreign powers against their rival tromp to see if perhaps they can find some dirt on them so maybe just maybe knowing what they know theyve done and might be revealed by der they needed to get a head of the curve and say hey look look look were going to impeach trial and were going to give him a little black eye pitches a little bit give peter mark because that will soften the blow for the Public Perception is richard jump in go ahead could i can i actually can i bring that up down to fact in reality we had a republican led Senate Intelligence committee that said the russians interfered the ukrainians didnt we had a Republican Special prosecutor moeller who prosecuted dozens of russians and said the republican russians interfered and the ukrainians didnt we had the and we had the Inspector General weve had authority after authority in the Intelligence Community in the us to say what what david just talked about is pure fantasy now i understand why its useful fantasy as a kind of deflecting right but deflect from the notion. That you could hear you brought up i would have to loaded gun he gave it hang on just for saying it richard did you see the komi interview with Chris Wallace did you see that. Did you see that it is well i actually did it to bits of pride out of radio you know i mean this is this is a corrupt person ok i mean he can even answer of course here i mean i think he betrayed what was wrong in the in the Justice Community jim comi ok and what david hassel say does have some veracity here let me ask you a question richard ok straightforward one here yet and then hang on you know we do have the horowitz report durham is coming out here and it seems to me and again im trying to be kind of fair here ok in the middle is that they want to the democrats and liberals they want to avoid they want to control this narrative so the impeachment narrative is number one because its a spectacle but i mean if you look at horowitz you look at is testimony i mean the Obama Administrations Justice Department looks pathetically bad if not criminally culpable richard react to that. What you call a narrative is what some of us actually would refer to as facts and here are the facts at harwich reported there was no political bias that gave route to the investigate the rush the investigation of the trunk campaign there was no political no spying there was no bugging of the trump towers peter struck had no influence over the decisions he was not a Decision Maker those are facts now then the narrative yes and that can also be cruel same times i may or that they were just cia agents that are that well that they were f. B. I. Agents that made mistakes and didnt know the rules need to be Getting Better each day theyre little teacher of the year by having very charitable mistakes ok who really did not have subpoena power horowitz yeah horowitz did not have subpoena power so youre what youre doing right now is your spin youre spinning this because we know that john did has way more power to go deeper and look into the cia look into whats going on in italy with miffs should look this is a story that has all kinds of tentacles apparently in australia. And italy and who else who knows where else so horowitz had lived and i just power and so what were looking at why why did they go to italy multiple times because theres something that theyre looking at that serious and when you have durham and bill bargirl over their food it needs to be investigated now heres the thing heres the thing theres a lot of places to go besides going all the way to italy so they must have something that we need to know about it its in the publics interest for us to find out whether the Previous Administration and their Democratic Political partisan friends of the d. N. C. May have been using and abusing the cia and other assets around the world to try to look for her or try to manufacture a criminal investigation to harm their political rivals so isnt that perfect to go ahead and get ahead of the curve and get a little dirt that mirror. It projects the same thing that we might find out with durham thats the investigation to look at thats the elephant in the room i dont care who wins the election i care about the truth and lets not spin it horowitz is not nearly as important as he does not have nearly as much investigative power as durham so lets see what happens you know richard i mean again you know we were talking before we started our program here and im very im more concerned i dont care who wins the next election to ok lets be clear i dont care ok i want the American People to make their decision here ok but the process here with me and you and you and i remember and you are always sleep much closer to it than i was the clinton impeachment would you compare the process of the clinton impeachment to whats going on right now because up until this point its run by one party ok and it seems from the outside looking in it looks and very very unfair and i know that bill clinton was given his fair do ok and i and the people who went after him and you member a very very well they were quite vicious but at least he had a side they protected him go ahead richard. So he theres a big difference between the clinton impeachment and this one which is that ken starr the independent counsel spent months and months and months interviewing to pose in people behind closed doors today in contrast with the Intelligence Community here a 100 different members of congress equally split between democrats and republicans could have been in every single one of those depositions that adam schiff and his staff held in the house of representatives there were 100 people who were eligible to go and the republicans had every minute that the democrats had to crossexamine witnesses so the notion that somehow or other there was this well i started. To see i watch a lot of the hearings i saw that adam shift was in. Very unfair pyar he was very biased very rude and he acted stupid most of the time youre right hang on gentlemen were going to go to our break and were after that short break well continue our discussion on impeachment stay with heart. Disease is a sticker from the water bottle found in the stomach of a fish the brand is part of the Cocacola Company which sells millions of bottles of soda every day the idea was that lets tell consumers there are the bad ones there the litter bugs are trying this way industry should be blamed for all of this waste the company has long promised to reuse the plastic. Thats. A special projects funded. On the. Fun now the mountains of waste only grow higher. Join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business im show business ill see you then. Welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered im Peter Lawwell to remind you were discussing trumps impeachment. And now in chattanooga were joined by our guest Anthony Bryan logan he is a conservative political commentator and tony welcome to the program here the 1st part of the program we were doing delving into the impeachment process the process of thats the most important word here but lets i want to kind of spread it out a little bit here i am a huge huge fan of the federalist papers i have a copy with me on my desk and at home ok because i think its some of the best political writing ever ever in any language at any time and ive looked over the impeachment parts of the federalist papers and the the the founders their worst dream is come true this is a partisan impeachment process ok and that is something they wanted to and they grappled with it read the federalist papers and weve come to this in 2019 weve the u. S. Congress has failed them go ahead. Oh yeah this whole thing is just definitely become a partisan prices initially and be that way like you say in a federalist papers a few days we come here we are today pretty much a Party Line Vote and theres not much there its actually a piece to president on i think at this point democrats are using it as a weapon to get their political opponents out of office and they should be used for their obviously it should be used if the president is actually. Crimes misdemeanors trees in bribery which of course the president is now is not use in a career way and i think this may say a very dangerous precedent for the future you know you know you know it let me go back to richard you know richard it may be. I think the good people of good faith can look at facts and come to different conclusions and i think thats the essence of having an honest political. Conversation but lets reflect upon what anthony just said there they just dont like the guy and they want him out and they feel that they were cheated in 2016 and this is a grudge match and its easy to. Trumps temperament as president to know hes he is a unique quantity here im trying to be neutral but i mean this is a power play richard thats all it is isnt it go ahead. You know look you know after charlottesville when trump was so divisive and so welcoming about american nazis in some peoples minds the indication to proceed with impeachment went on when he when he took babies from mothers arms across the border people thought that might have been but nancy pelosi said sorry no even after mohler but obama did o. B. L. A man did that and i was that obama was. Great so what here is that here to the thing im glad you mentioned the dinner with paper obama because hang on hang on guys hang on richard go ahead go ahead richard right so im glad you mentioned the federalist papers goes read Alexander Hamilton and federalist paper 65 where there he talks about the abuse of power which far supersedes anything having to do with a high crime and misdemeanor certainly it is when he talks about there which is using the office to your personal political advantage almost literally matches up with what trump did here and as i said earlier that you were not on the discussion if trouble to put the arm on say the head of israel to say we got you through 3000000000. 00 in aid annually but do me this favor or to she and china weve got a good trade deal for you but do me this favor thats exactly what happens in your head i mean right again richard one Company Going in a cul de sac here i mean again all of us have read the transcript and i come to a very different conclusion ok and i actually know a lot about ukraine im just of iran so no i dont know but you know the let me go to david hang on or no no no no that was really good everybody and i got to get everybody in here im so into it david ok im just going to im just going to use what richard just said there you know charlottesville taking babies away from their parents at the border and with all due respect to richard this this is this shows theyre looking for a way to impeach him it doesnt matter what it is as long as it sticks i mean Richard Richard just proved that. Ok because because they dont because i again this is where the do great divide is here i think that it was the Obama Administration but they were the ones that committed this these acts against the law and against carter page and George Papadopoulos theyre never mentioned ok their people their lives have been destroyed other peoples lives have been destroyed through process crimes ok not even having to do with any of this here and so it seems to me this is a power play i wish people would be more honest about it go ahead david. Well thats the nature of d. C. Its all about dishonesty its all about political theater performance are its Pro Wrestling gets the best way to learn about d. C. Of the talking points coming out of it but look you know mansi palosi and donald trump are closer politically than i am to either of them ok so i dont have a dog in that fight but i see whats clearly in front of us and the democrats youre right there are scapegoating theyre projecting their own guilt are the terms so when they tell all we should have a pizza because of he tore babies apart it was obamas cages that were putting kids in these cages it was 3000000 thats right 3000000 adults and children d. Ported im sure some of them were torn apart and guess what that