Hello and welcome to crossfire for all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle we were told there was no such thing as the deep state now were told to adore it also arms control is dying and we should all be worried and concerned and why Samantha Power is a hypocrite. Cross talking some real news im joined by my guest here in moscow he is a political analyst we also have glenn hes a professor at the Higher School of economics as well as author of the decay of western civilization and resurgence of russia and were joined by Dmitry Babich hes a political analyst and editor at you know its me internet media project all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated you know over the course of this ridiculous russia gate. As we go into ukraine gate the mass media has been telling us if you used the term deep state or a conspiracy theorist ok somethings changed though or you could say the deep state is finally beginning to speak with us into this video clip here gentlemen lets go thank god for the state. I think you know everyone here has seen this progression of diplomats and Intelligence Officers and white house people tripping up to capitol hill right now and saying these are people who are doing their duty you are responding to a higher call higher fall claim. Hes making a reference to people that are unelected. And also telling us that these elected officials they have the right and even obligation maybe even moral obligation to disagree and obstruct elected official the president of the United States and well that has been part of the development of this narrative about the deep state that is 1st of all that has existed and its recognize that yes it does exist but its a good thing because its a good thing that health care well theyre good because they help to put a check on trump his success and thats what we believe thats what we have congress for and thats what we have the courts for exactly and thats the thing because this ng you know this really standing up for the constitution and the American People however the american system over it has a check on power that is you dont have 6 i could branch which you have the legislative and the judiciary so what this really could even see in the media is also those of you know 4th of. The recognizing that this is a 4th branch of power that is. Going to be conceptualized as being this bureaucracy or Intelligence Services so youre a cia n. S. A. If and if they have a role in order to put a check on the disruption of trump now this is obviously problematic for a lot of reasons one for one trying to stay here im just going to let the us of this drop there he said you know i want to renegotiate their thing all our economic deals. Nato is perhaps obsolete they want to get rid of the wars so the purpose of this 4th branch of power the deep state would then be to maintain the status quo or Thomas Friedman its like the status quo to see that the ok well then what do we need elected officials for i mean if theyre if theyre already in charge theyre going to be making decisions why do we need to elect officials i mean it seems to me that they know they claim to know better and if we accept them as a 4th branch then were just going to have president s that will mimic their talking points i mean this is a serious. Moment here well we heard of friends we have to say we cant be naive we had deep state. In all kinds of powers and kingdoms and they always have been mean and initially what this does different is that there is trying to subvert the will of the people ok i think we all know that president s and prime ministers and all the western world they do there is pressure from the Intelligence Community and sometimes thats a good thing but when they think that they know better than elected officials that is a dangerous point certainly and what i always criticized above the socalled democracies that claim that democracy is to decant deep state and of course when you go back into conspiracy theories which we were. Always listening to about the nation of john f. Kennedy for instance had you said in 1063 dead there was a conspiracy about it you know it would have been blasphemy now 4050 years later we can talk about it the involvement off the deep state of killings. We just say that what a squad of interesting now is to look at the legitimize sation of the deep states not denying it but printing it right up there and you see this for example that a lot of the media on the left on the liberal side now are you know putting in the Intelligence Service this is actually hiring them. In the media and also when i actually went against the Intelligence Community this was again it was this was last week how can you possibly these are the you know theyre not their job isnt this information theyre Truth Tellers and how could it possibly will deny all of this or to sell it in a 2nd with Samantha Power ok good you know well i think that we should all remember who the person east that he was deputy cia director during the. School he claimed in 20022003 that iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that was if we believe him institutional commitment to our t. V. And. Higher court. So the point is that this system you know if they had been sort of in the state you know pretty sure you know i was told that you can if youre going to lie in the name of the state but the result was disastrous iraq is not loyal to the United States in iraq to let the Russian Point syria iraq is basically a not not given its oil to the United States but to a lot of Companies Including russia and whats in syria daughter favor because they not only didnt change the regime in syria they will show off and theyre like so these deep state besides being very cruel its also very ineffective its against American National media its against american initial interest i want to address this to both of you i think we need to stress a point that glenn has brought up here where i find really disturbing is how the liberal media is giving legitimacy to this in giving cover to because when we go to the deep state because we know that the origins of russia gate will be revealed to us we have durham we have a g. Bar we have a number of reports coming in it seems to me that theyre preempting this because the truth sayers on c. N. N. In m. S. M. B. C. Are going to be shown to be liars and probably. People who have committed criminal offenses i think this is a living soul already going we dont know that and i said well i dont know the reason but one of the saying is that theyre circling the wagons and using american metaphor because well if the purpose of the state is to put a check on the president one must ask well what is the policy then of this in the Intelligence Community and thats very much committed to maintaining the status quo so so that theres no one who is actually elected them to remove them and to a large extent this prevents any dramatic change such as getting out of the long term wars and i think youre correct with more and more openness about the. You know we have this leaks now which is posted in a New York Times where they say well theyre actually trying to prohibit. Restrict some of the information i guess to trump or now in syria that they said how about we take the oil and thats a way of staying there so you see more and more influence on behalf of this state or us in the strait of state and. Again i think theres i think we all remember it was only i think a little more than a week ago when Hillary Clinton came out from her long walks in the in the in the forest came out and really dissed. Assaulted on twitter. By an antiwar candidate and it seems to me that is coordinated all of these things are coordinated you have the deep state you have the media and they had to pile on because she represents she said disruptor as well she said disruptor in the Democratic Party like trump was in the Republican Party and you saw the piling on antiwar pulling back from this imperial reach is something that is completely forbidden and you will be punished in public for it well and as you just mentioned the media of course the media has their impact there as well and of course you can question whether some of the media is maybe part of the deep state this is where i would go and say they are trying to impeach president of the United States that has never happened and never never been completed theyve resigned or survived like mr clinton survived his affair but i remember that he for 2 weeks before the affair broke he had resisted bombing did so no fly zone in iraq no after the impeachment process started you suddenly was willing to bomb a little of course nixon but he finished the vietnam war obviously he went against a deep state well its really interesting that the only time the deep state seems to like trump is when hes bombing someone ok we saw that because they said it was normal it is reality and president ial and n. B. C. News said look at always beautiful missiles ok and again the deep state in. The media are in lockstep to where i just i would like to remind our viewers that just as you said just a few months ago a new one who objected to their Mainstream Media in the United States was called either a conspiracy theorist or put in a special and there are very few of us at the time i said we could make 2 football teams conspiracy put but you know there are very few people wake up and know theyre admitting that this is the truth and what where are they serving i mean theyre not sure in the state theyre 7 and i do or would. And the problem with that ideology is that unlike nazis meant coleman is it doesnt recognize a name for it so it doesnt name itself they just say we are the free world we are the normal countries why doesnt russia become president and normal country and you see how more and more. Hypocritical to tear it tearing isms have become the nazis were put you know like we will go and subjugate all these want to mention you know the communist talked about pretty daring you know but everyone in the end understood what they were after and now we have this system which 1st claimed that were just saving refugees you know were getting rid of weapons of mass destruction in iraq and now theyre saying yes there was a deep state and there is a deep state and we will do whatever we can see a necessary and if you want to go and work it well you know but actually the we should give we should bow down we should. Except for the good wisdom of the deep state thats what the medias message is 30 seconds were going to break through then i think thats the key problem is its not whether or not well sometimes it dips it might be a good thing sometimes my 2 bad thing but the fact that theres a saying you know this lack of democratic oversight or you know the whole murkiness of them none of this matters now because of the goodness theyre doing so if you think theyre doing good or bad surely this emergence of this for a 4th branch of power should be a concern should be a concern more than a concern we go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on some real news today with our team. You know world big partisan. And conspiracy its time to. Wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that Mainstream Media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the back and shouting past each other its time for Critical Thinking its time to fight for the middle for the troops the time is now were watching closely watching the hawks. Today there are good terrorists and bad evidence the bad terrorists and those in yemen who the United States deems to be a threat the look to those who work in syria the cia and the us military were engaged in covert actions really throughout the world. Where they were assassinating populist leaders they were backing up right away military windows funding an army of death squads theres no any more because theres always a small people for a really good thats. A profit. The world is driven by shaped by. The day or thinks. We dared to ask. Welcome back to cross talk were all things or consider 9 Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing some real news. Ok. Gentlemen lets switch gears here Samantha Power the former. American ambassador to the United Nations came out with an op ed piece in the New York Times and it was about the house of representatives recognizing the genocide had been committed against the armenian people by the autumn and turks and its been a very controversial issue the u. S. Has been has been very careful with this issue because turkey is a nato ally but things have changed and i know there are 2 things i mean the timing of it isnt very important here and some of the things that she said which i think i would like to highlight here the resolution meaning the resolution the house passed matters hugely to american armenians of course but it is also a reminder of how important truthtelling is to American Foreign policy this is some out the power of truth telling well and how alternately selfdefeating it is for the United States to bend to autocratic pressures pressure tactics with rather from turkey or anyone else but she never talks about the pressure tactics that the u. S. Uses around the world on an everyday basis what about the timing go ahead well the timing of course is interesting also the active suggests the u. S. Like all countries which is a recent point of view is that they have to balance their strategic interest with their values but the what she said just now is that you know americas small compas its consciousness really has come 1st and this allows america to rediscover the power of telling the truth but there the timing of course is interesting because this suddenly were like what what what what would have caused this and it seemed that why all the sudden telling the truth now were going to get it always be the case on the side yet might be speculating but it does seem it would be punishment of turkey and this is all from how great powers would use values and ideas and moral to that is you know if you align yourself with the great power then they will look the other way if they if you go against them then they will hold you accountable and so its not so much just truth telling us using human rights democracy and. Angelas side anyway diminishes diminishes the resolution itself diminishes the historical fact of genocide jumping well i think that some of the poll gave us a clue why she said that that particular this particular moment lets read the article while though turkish officials may see the vault as retaliation for turkeys purchase all over america nato protests over Russian Air Defense system simply this reduce the impact of turkish blackmail well the. Were right if they suspect its. This is somehow connected to the purchase of us for hundreds and for there are the problems that the United States has with turkey they will be 100 percent right you know and im sorry its a very interesting new understanding by someone from poland or miranda rights if you go against the United States anything in your ancestors deed 100 years ago or 200 years ago may be used against you as if you did you know the story with captain message when polish officers were executives on study and sort of did take police and russia admitted that what point is that when american officials keep pushing that story against russians the last person who participated in this massacre died in 1901 you know he was 86 years old so the current generation doesnt have anything to do with it you know and russia apologized and putin went to cutting but they keep pushing that story not because people like some of the power concerned about these executive officers or about armenians who died in the genocide of it in the use it for political me is through political means because her memoir that has recently come out there i mean she she embarrass or so with her reflections upon which she was involved in when it comes to yemen and its a complete whitewash here so again we. We see the cheapening of morality here ok and i agree i have no problem with the u. S. House of representatives recognizing the historical fact of the genocide against the armenians but im im insulted morally how it is being used as a political cudgel well that is the same as we experience as germans. Of course we have to commemorate the victims of the nazis fascism and of the world war. But if someone is using it in a way to push for a policy change i think that is trampling on the graves of those who suffered and lost the lives and so i think we have to be reasonable and dont use it for day to day politics we are not talking about how many native americans were killed. Settle everybody who came so if we count all of these we dont know who you know so i would. Rather in a sober way to look at history and not use it as a new form for day to day politics harrowing i think the people who should be most insulted by what happened its because they are being used politically you know. Sure that she will immediately get all the support you know her memoir is called an education of an idea just this is an idealist who has been waiting about 105 years before revealing something that was well you know and of course i think a lot of it means they wont buy it because it is so obvious ok i want to switch gears here something thats really important is happening and we have russian officials coming out saying that. The possible re