Of all high profile cases that for example involved journalist yvonne we also just got galson real time disguised as a gaggle of this and not ours and Jeffrey Sachs and it breaks if you for this verse you call that what that was just comment that it would mostly. We might have theres actually a lot of. This with a little more of keys we should was talking surprises which was a surprise for me because i remember quite well when i was talking surprises which was a surprise for me because i remember quite well when i 1st read the news of the journalist being detained with rocks i remember my idea 1st read the news of the journalist being detained with rocks i remember my idea i was on the council then but i thought well this is these are media i was on the council then but i thought well this is these are media people the. Can defend their own kind so no need to trouble myself about it people they can defend their own kind so no need to trouble myself about it so i wasnt ready for this. One also think this crap and the. Magnitude they cant have it when it was as down the so that when time that survey was a big argument as it is it was this time that society as it is was ready to react to what it sees as fear was ready to react to what it sees as on fear and unjust and thats in line with what you have been writing about that starting from around the unjust and thats in line with what you have been writing about that starting from around 2017 theres been a shift in the polls in attitudes towards public 2017 theres been a shift in the polls in attitudes towards public protest i think the protests themselves become more broad based its not just processional of them sisters but also have become more broad based its not just professional protesters but kind of lame man who kind of didnt let him take to the streets certainly when you do pete in the people take to the streets before certainly new people keim game to be protest esthers not just ask. People we found tonight we want to you know notice young people more because wes ishi them naturally with a new floor to. Bottom but. With a future with tomorrow but as far as we can judge by its a little bit we need a kind of the. Need of the general composition of people out on the streets is analogous to the demographic picture of people out on the streets is analogous to the demographic picture of society in general the median age is 40 in. Im 40 a society in general the median age is 4940. But we do have people who are not as you see professional protest as not people but we do have people who are not as you see professional protest as not people. Going. Through a lot of the truth we have we have new people out and this is a change and the process that you mentioned is called by scientologists the normalisation of protest and this is a wimp you people out this is a change and the process is that you mentioned is called by scientologists in the protest and this is a whim people not who do not participate themselves begin to suppose that brought us to give it to him will not who do not participate themselves begin to suppose that brought us dictated to him with self is normal and should not be suppressed by the state this is rather self is normal and should not be suppressed by the state this is read a new thing for russian Public Opinion because previously it was manifestly seem as though they knew a thing for russian Public Opinion because previously it was manifestly seen as a danger they have been the attitude of authorities. To progress until recently if this was also pretty mild in moscow i think the number of recently if this was also pretty mild in moscow i think the number of green lighted rallies has actually increased and as you mentioned before the of green lighted rallies has actually increased and as you mentioned before the overall level of street violence was very very low why then all of a sudden overall level of street violence was very very low why then all of a sudden in the middle of 2001000 there has been such a. You know strong in the middle of 2001000 there has been such a. You know Strong Police of of the of the of public protests not the least by the police of of the of the of public protest nor the least by the authorities themselves there were some kind of tradition that in more scooters allow or both or it is themselves there were some kind of tradition that in more school it is allowable for people to sometimes get out on the street at the same time for people to sometimes get out on the street at the same time since the change in legislation that wars are implemented before the change in legislation that wars are implemented before 2014 the price of unauthorized sanctions socalled protos became great you know 1000 for 2 the price of unauthorized sanctions socalled protos became gradually higher more fines are more days of administrative for arrests and then only higher more fines are more days of administrative for arrests and then been famous criminal code article 2 of 212 point one which criminalize us ruby to administrative have found some being famous criminal code article 2 of 212 point one which criminalize us ruby to administrative have found during Public Meetings and really as so the prize was raise during Public Meetings and really is so the prize was raised by the authorities at the same time there were some kind of understanding that people can start by the authorities at the same time there were some kind of understanding that people can sometimes do that what changed easts possibly what you call politan times do that what changed is possibly what you call politicisation this is pro over this what is the. So. Were. As were still slow as local. Bases on some some concrete greve grievance i. Love about demolition of a building building. Far more of the more severe morning of superman that a specific model brought us that so brought us off this summer war believe this i have a more recent wars are of the elite of the. News on the politics of the world of the work well for me as a political scientist go read sacro it is evident as a pro the supposedly Political Action because theyll be taken toward sales that its a demand. For push dissipation for political participation but authority is. The gulf between what we can but authorities differentiate between well kind of social or economic forces for protest well kind of social or economic forces for protests and political there is nothing more political than elections and these were badly tical there is nothing more political than elections. Were about elections so oh when we weve seen this our own goal of keys the elections so oh when we weve seen this our own goal of case the participants were not punished off towards the course according to our to the participants were not punished afterwards be course according to our tradition the worst thing that happens is not during the really itself not during the session the worst thing that happens is not during the really itself not during the march or something but what comes afterwards the russian institutions or the march or something but what comes afterwards the russian institutions are often criticised for their rather immature nature and from. Often criticised for their rather image of nature and function and i personally see no problem with that i think fake it till you make it is the best strategy for it and i personally see no problem with that i think fake it till you make it is the best strategy for a selfimprovement as long as youre faking something youre legitimizing the whole thing and im a little bit concerned the russian authorities have starved selfimprovement as long as youre faking something youre legitimizing the whole thing and im a little bit concerned the russian authorities have starved faking or at least of faking authentically the notion that faking or at least of faking authentically the notion that everybody can participate in politics i understand all the insecurities and everybody can participate in politics i understand all the insecurities and you know that there are deep historic insecurities about political or antigovernment you know that there are deep historic insecurities about political or antigovernment protest in russia but still they have to keep their appearances and all of a sudden they decided not us and russia but still they have to keep their appearances and all of a sudden they decided not to keep those appearances anymore why is that do you think well their parents are to keep those appearances any more why is that do you think well their parents are kept in the sense that whatever happens even if we dislike it then we dislike kept it in the sense that whatever happens even if we dislike it then we dislike about what happens with the little limits of the law as it is we the law is weak about what happens with the little limits of the law as it is we the law is written in such a way that it allows greek lexa t. To Law Enforcement such a way that it allows greek lexa t. To Law Enforcement so we didnt have any well this was a specific. Reso we didnt have any well this was a specific early goal regime in moscow for example no emergency has been declared so its all according to the regime in moscow for example no emergency has been declared so its all according to the written rules but your writing saying that the prick downs are off written rules but your writing saying that the prick downs are off the allowable participation in political life has been seated and at the same to the allowable participation in political life has been seeded and at the same time their Human Rights Council whose fate we are supposed to discuss has also via their Human Rights Council whose fate we are supposed to discuss has also been one of those decorated with but not wanted of those used just the corridors but it is not used instance to used. Elegant too much to quote my best question to ask to come to that that ive been asking the myself on the events with whether we ask eating my lips a Council Member is whether we the Council Members who have been so active during those hacked sick summer months how weve been aware of that by our activity weve been harming v r vers who have been so active during those hacked sick summer months how weve been aware of that by our activity weve been harming the institution that we belong to and tarring on its to me its a situation that we belong to and tarring on the. Should we have been more quiet in order to keep the council intact should we have been more quiet in order to keep the council intact or should we have done what we have done in order to show our position public or should we have done what we have done in order to show our position publicly even given the reste of of what actually happened. Even given the weeks of. What actually happened now the speaker to be a board. Member of the other members whove been very critical about how their members approach us who have been there and build a critic not about only by. The moscow protests have been handled not only by the Law Enforcement but also now by the Russian Court system do you take that as mad but also now by the Russian Court system do you take that as a kneejerk reaction to you personally just being irritated by a sharp tongue or do you think its society jerk reaction to you personally just being irritated by a sharp tongue or do you think its a sign of a more sort of systemic shift. Well it hasnt been of a more sort of systemic shift. Well it hasnt been just for Council Members that are dismayed they have of the county just for Council Members that were dismayed they have of the council the chairman well i mean over there there is a legitimate reason of him reaching the retirement the chairman well i mean over there there is a legitimate reason of him reaching the retirement age so you can write it off as something that could have happened but you can write it off as something that could have happened but we in your own case its pretty notable that somebody who has served on the council for a time in your own case its pretty notable that somebody who has served on the council for 10 months is kicked out because supposedly out of the. Kicked out because supposedly out of the rich in the south city thats hard to believe well this has been the way all the explanation in this city thats hard to believe well this has been the way all the explanation and i must say that there have been no private talks with me i must see it open and i must. Event there have been no private talks with me i must see it open and fair because its true and no member of the president ial administration has given me and fair because its true and no member of the president ial administration has given me preliminary warning warning that theyve been doing something over the top and that i should stop or so it was kind of a surprise although it was at the preliminary warning warning that theyve been doing something over the top and that i should stop or so it was kind of a surprise although it was at the same time kind of expected we should have been in a more difficult position have they having time kind of expected we should have been in a more difficult position had they had of the council been changed on the composition of the council remain the same of the council being changed on the composition of the council remain the same because working with the chairman you dont either logically side because working with the chairman whom you dont either logically side with is difficult on one hand the council is a Democratic Institutions with is difficult on one hand the council is a Democratic Institution decisions are made by though doing by the majority and we have the will the active part we did are made by though doing by the majority and we have the will the active part we did have the majority we could pass decisions we could pass the corporations have the majority we could pass decisions we could pass the corporations but at the same time are the powers of the chair is are made but at the same time are the powers of the chair is our main in our hands for example he alone of all the members of the council has been. For example he alone of all the members of the council has a proper job being an advisor to the president so he can for example write plateaux signed letters to proper jobs. An advisor to the president so he can for example write plateaux sign a letter to the authorities declaring the councils position not a fosse could do therefore it is declaring the councils position none of us could do that and generally it would have been an unworkable scheme a sloman said those that and generally it would have been an unworkable scheme aflame and so those would have been the your own problems in the you could have dealt with them in the only way i think would have been the your own problems in the you could have dealt with them in the only way i think. Even from a propaganda point of view having you on the council. Even from a propaganda point of view having you on the council could have created after very good a great impression fair russia would if im fresh political roughly as a version of this fire brand politically Diverse Society where people can voice different peace audience i mean if i had made for me what about where people can voice different opinions i mean it would have made for a much better impression than just this someone ceremony is. Just this someone ceremony is kicking you out and i think thats somewhat uncharacteristic of president putin who is usually very and i think thats somewhat uncharacteristic of president putin who is usually very particular about the appearances and the signals that he he sounds do you take that as particular about the appearances and the signals that he he sounds do you take that as hes own decision because he had to sign on the or departure or do you think. Hes own decision because he had to sign on the or departure or do you think. Somebody in his close circle who perhaps thought somebody in his close circle who perhaps thought that the your services or your opinions are not the most suited well i will travel services or your opinion. Not the most suited well i would rather surmise that it may be connected to the on coming meeting of the council with the present mind that it may be connected to the on coming meeting of the council with the president the Council Meets once a year with the president the previous meeting was just after the Council Meets once a year with the president the previous meeting was just after the previous rim of ation of the council and that was actually the 1st time december 11th previous room of asians of the council and that was actually the 1st time december 11th of last year when the new member saw each other by the way there were no preliminary talks even then no last year when the new member saw each other by the way there were no preliminary talks even then no one asked us what are we going to talk about and i spoke when asked what are we going to talk about and i spoke a little bit during this meeting on the same topic by the way theyre a little bit during this meeting on the same topic by the way that i had to speak now as an official presenter during the next meet i had to speak now as an official presenter during the next meeting you know many of the things that you see on many other occasions i mean youre pretty safe and you dont know many of the things that you see on many other occasions i mean youre pretty safe. Because scientists you know social commentator i mean you have a big political scientist you know social commentator i mean you have a big viewership on you tube you have a Radio Program so its not like youre seeing something that viewership on you tube you have a Radio Program so its not like youre saying something that people havent heard before but maybe some people havent heard before not everyone follows me on people havent heard it before but maybe some people havent heard before not everyone follows me on you tube channel maybe they have up or other sources of information so it came as a surprise to the you tube channel maybe they. Have up are other sources of information so it came as a surprise to them i dont now again i have an idea that the plan was to prevent and yamato now again i have an idea that the plan was to prevent any unpleasantness happening any words being spoken during the next