Into those allegations. That lines of paris court finds the woman behind the french meeting movement for defaming a man shed accuse the sexual harassment. And british businessman aaron banks and his believe campaign a cleared of receiving millions in funding from overseas including from russia a national from agency stating there was no evidence that any criminal offenses had been committed. From a mosque in use its q what you are the international and Daniel Hawkins refuge cheating and from welcome to the program. A controversy is growing in washington over a july phone call between the president of the u. S. And ukraine softer whistleblowers complaint against donald trump was declassified on thursday it alleges that the white house attempted to keep the details of the 2 Leaders Conversation secret democrats say that during his discussions with madam is alinsky mr trump likely committed a crime by urging his counterpart to investigate democratic 2020 hopeful joe bidens activities in ukraine and has more. If you take a look at the complaint its from an unnamed whistleblower and this whistleblower essentially argues that they are working in the interests of the United States they heard about trumps conversation with the ukrainian leader they were outraged about it and they had to speak up now whats interesting is the whistleblower admits they never actually heard the conversation i was not a direct witness to most of the events described however i found my colleagues accounts of these events to be credible because in almost all cases officials recounted fucked pots ins that were consistent with one another in addition a variety of information consistent with these private accounts has been reported publicly and therefore filling my g. T. To report this information through pro police channels to the relevant authorities we were presented with the most graphic evidence yet at the present the United States has betrayed his oath of office betrayed his oath to defend our National Security and betrayed his oath to defend our constitution sacrificed our National Security and our constitution for his personal political benefit the director of National Intelligence says he fully stands behind this whistleblower you dont believe the whistleblower is a political hack do you director i believe that as i said before mr chairman i believe the whistle blowers are operating in good faith well then that has money in the law they couldnt be in good faith if they were acting as a political hack could they. Mr chairman my job is to support and leave the entire Intelligence Community that individual works for me therefore it is my job to make sure that i support and defend that person you dont have any reason to cuse them of disloyalty to our country or suggest that beholden to some other country i mean im sure absolutely not i believe that the whistleblower followed the steps every step of the way now the white house has released the full transcript of the phone call in question between President Trump of the United States and the ukrainian leader and as that transcript shows trump did indeed bring up joe biden his son hunter biden the issue of the firing of the prosecutor however there was no mention of a threat to withdraw military aid from ukraine as was alleged by democrats initially and that transcript is available and when they were at the United Nations speaking together trump and the ukrainian leader reiterated that there was never any pressure or threat placed on the ukrainian leader and. I think. He too was normal we spoke about many seeing that and. So i think when you read it is that nobody bhushan bush and me yes no 3 at this point the democrats have opened a formal impeachment inquiry into President Trump now the way the u. S. Constitution lays things out the house of representatives decides to begin impeachment proceedings that would be the House Judiciary Committee that would write up articles of impeachment but its the u. S. Senate that would then convene an impeachment trial and vote on whether or not to remove the president so at this point we have the democrats in the house of representatives beginning impeachment proceedings against us President Donald Trump in response to this phone call and the whistleblowers complained about it however at this point of the senate is controlled pretty solidly by republicans so they could very easily vote not to convene an. Pietschmann trial so the next move will be quite interesting to see but regardless of what we now have with the transcript available that says that the whistleblower didnt actually hear the conversation the complaint that is now available from the whistleblower to the transcript of the conversation that is now available itll be quite interesting to see what happens next but the impeachment ball is rolling in washington d. C. Of a while Many Democrats are praising the whistleblowers some republicans are raising concerns about a number of really takes coming from the white house is it normal for the president and the states to have their conversations leak out. This the 3rd time Ranking Member of the allegation in the whistleblower complaint was that there were about 12 people who listened in on the conversation so there were a number of people that from the white house briefed on the call this would not be something that im quite im quite sure this this white house probably didnt leak this out i wouldnt say the white house but there are individuals within the white house that may or may not i dont know but it would not be from an intelligence intercept i will say that what they were talking about at that point was that we had the conversation with the australian Prime Minister leaked we have the conversation with the president s of mexico late and now a leak about the president of ukraine there is a significant problem with people working against trump and the question that were all going to ask ourselves is look in the cold light of day these phone calls may sound incriminating but we dont know what barack obama said to World Leaders and so weve got nothing necessarily to compare this to and i think that that is where it is only one of the things i would say as an important point and anybody watching this i think would have the intelligence to recognize that you cannot rule on a Foreign Affairs operation if the confidential conversations your having with both supportive and hostile regimes occult see being leaked so the Washington Post that is something that is deeply on helpful i think something that continually options and only to donald trump. Donald trump has reiterated he still wants alleged corruption claims involving his potential election rival joe biden and the Ukrainian Company investigated the u. S. President s accusations now extend beyond just one country as that all quarter reports. Trumps doing something theres a naysaying liberal media following close behind despite President Trump at Rudy Giulianis repeated allegations against the by the no evidence of wrongdoing tied to his son Hunter BidensUkraine Business has actually been found the allegations against him which which have indeed been been proven baseless at least to this point these are proven claims that the president is making about bud right well hes making up to the allegations against the Vice President and i think thats really important to understand so does biden and his family have a squeaky clean track record lets look at the facts in 2014 biden was in charge of washingtons policy stance for ukraine and for some reason his son was put on a Ukrainian Oil companys board of directors around that same time when a prosecutor launched an inquiry into that weird coincidence biden had this to say and i went over. The 1213. 00 time key event and i was goose supposed to announce that there is another 1000000000. 00 Loan Guarantee and i got a commitment from poroshenko and from. You know that they would take action against the state prosecutor and they did so that theyre walking out. And im not going to were not going to give you 1000000000. 00 shortly after the prosecutor was fired and the inquiry dropped biden said neither had to do with one another just another coincidence but lets go back to bidens 2013 trip to china for talks with president xi paying 10 days after that a subsidiary of the bank of china cut a deal with joe son hunter to form a 1000000000. 00 joint Investment Fund another 1000000000. 00 coincidence then there was 2011 when he oversaw u. S. Troop withdrawal from iraq that same year joes younger brother sealed a 1500000000. 00 deal to build homes in you guessed. Iraq theres plenty of money for everyone if this project goes through and that mountain of benjamins 2 was only a coincidence it seems when youre related to the former Vice President things just had to work out and joes got no problem with it mr Vice President your take on that was a conflict of interest there was a clear conflict of interest what you heard and people move along nothing to see here im not seeing now questions about well it could also be distracting us from when joe biden is done and others have been involved maybe there really is something there thats a question thats not coming through really the questions that are being asked in the hope i think for those who are were answered from this how does leads into really great. Leaked information or a juicy information not about joe biden but about donald trump. People who are upset with his politics and this could be a way to move us away from when joe biden might be involved in a family thing. Caught in paris as a rule that the founder of the french me too movement defamed the man she accused of making lewd and sexist remarks in 2017 is a france correspondent shot at the win skit. Well sundram has been told to pay some 20000. 00 euros in fines and damages after being found to have defamed to t. V. Executives who she said had sexually harassed her there she is known as being the leader or the start of the me too movement here in france which is called pole which means rattling your pig and back in 2017 she had tweeted about an incident for many years before in which she had said it the executive who she went on to name and shame had made inappropriate advances to her but the t. V. Executive in question says as a result of this he was labeled as a sex offender he received a huge parish of criticism on social media and he was unhappy he said even more so when she rejected his advances which he admits actually happened he then went on to apologize effectively i did make misplaced comments to stand during a drunken Cocktail Party very late one night but only ones i later i told her was so heavy handedly and only once i must point out i dont want to exonerate myself from my boorishness of the time i read to read my apologies well sundram isnt happy with this verdict in the Court Neither is her lawyer and both say that they will now look to appeal. I didnt win the other woman and won i lost here today but in any case we win it all genders have started talking this decision doesnt take away from the fact that womens voices have been liberated that he must continue to speak out that he must continue to do now is reprehensible acts of any kind fear must not win here must not change sides well this isnt perhaps the 1st embarrassment for the me too movement to think about the italian actress an activist asieh our center who is one of the fore. Bearers of the me too Movement Across the globe and also new york professor vito ranelagh who talked about being victims of sexually inappropriate behavior in the past but both women were later accused by young men of making them the victims of sexually inappropriate behavior and many people have long questioned this idea of naming and shaming people who are being accused of being sexual offenders or sexual predators given that in a public space such as social media there is often little to no evidence to back up that those allegations those claims have got a real grain of truth to them and many people saying why didnt you take them to the courts in the 1st place and some saying as a result of that their careers have also been growing their personal lives have also being ruined so some people question now whether this Defamation Case marks a real reversal in the fortunes of me to movement not perhaps just here in france but across the globe with many other people perhaps looking at this case and wondering if they too now could bring their own Defamation Case or your lawyer legal or 3 of the spike magazine a good source here lou thanks for joining us out of the woods saying everyone you know back in the me too movement to somehow above reproach for their behavior but surely these sorts of cases are quite undermining for the movement as a whole lot more. Well i think they reveal the complexity the meeting movement is trying to grapple with this is an attempt to extend the law in many cases extend the Justice System into the deepest darkest recesses of our private lives and what weve seen in the aftermath of the me too movement is more and more cases coming forward which really deal with the manu shy of Human Interaction if you look at the case of netflix star as is owns ari what was brought. Him was really an allegation the had misbehaved in the course of a date been too hands on been overstepped personal boundaries on a number of occasions and the problem with these allegations is that theyre very hard to prove by the way aspects of them almost certainly are true other aspects of the might be exaggerated or false but by projecting them into the public realm and opening them up to this kind of scrutiny the kind of unfortunate cases that youve seen in france of a woman being sued for defamation over bringing what is possibly a legitimate complaint will continue to happen and i think that the lesson from france really should be that one this behavior is not acceptable its not ok for men to drunkenly crack onto women in an aggressive way especially when they have absolutely no interest in reciprocating that interest but often those situations are best resolved in a private context and i think weve lost as a society the ability to sort of look at this is something that can be resolved privately between the parties im afraid you know youve missed out possibly one of the greatest injustices arising out of me too which was kevin spacey you know one of the great actors of our generation who had very recently the case against him completely dropped and he now faces no criminal charges whatsoever he had his life taken apart in response to those allegations he had his career wiped off the cultural map you know he lost film roles he had programs that he had been removed from being broadcast films that he were in was canceled completely you know they came in this reaction came in and picked apart his life and that is not justice no matter what you think of it it is not justice and i think what we are starting to see is how me the wall arguably it drew attention to issues that have been out of the public realm for a while it has some very dark consequences when it comes to considering and just resolution of these claims and it is about. Find that balance isnt it between bringing justice to victims and as you say. People being wrongly accused of things that later come out in the public eye sundram one of the plaintiffs or the difficult find in this case she says this ruling risks other victims of harassment being silenced because of what happens do you think thats a valid concern. Well thats probably true and one aspect of me too phenomenon was to encourage the idea and propagate the idea that if if genuine victims of Sexual Violence come forward then they will be ignored and disregarded by the system and therefore its necessary to take your complaints to social media because at least in social media youll receive some degree of validation and acceptance i think that was a dangerous aspect of the me too phenomenon as well we know that in england and wales you know were relatively good at dealing with these allegations now thats certainly not true across the world frankly i dont know what its like in france but i think in general the approach should always be where possible if you have been the victim of genuine Sexual Violence then the 1st step should always be to try and resolve that in well firstly if it is genuine Sexual Violence you should go to the police and attempt to revolve it resolve it in a formal setting. And if that is you know if you genuine victims of Sexual Violence should be told that if they do come forward and if there is a system there to cope with their complaint then they should be told that they will be treated fairly because at least in many countries in western europe they will be in the evidence suggests that you know were pretty good at dealing with these allegations so i dont always think the convincing genuine victims that they simply wont believe is either true or not in the british context and a lot in a lot of countries in western europe or is it very helpful because it puts people off resolving their complaints in a productive way you mentioned social media which is quite a salient point is that because his claim was also made on social me on twitter and on the one hand social media can be used as a forum for victims to come forward to talk about their experien