From former cia contractor Edward Snowden now in moscow for safety its not a huge surprise that the u. S. Military is engaged in off fans of Cyber Attacks yes but the usa is not just offensively hacking countries it is involved in full spectrum surveillance as revealed by Edward Snowden arguably making accusations against Chinese Companies like wall way even more risible joining me now by skype from the british colony of the meter is Guinness World record holder jim rogers he founded the quantum funder george soros and is the author of a bull in china investing profitably in the worlds greatest market jim welcome to going underground so youve said trump is making china great again do you think something Chinese CommunistParty Officials a law fing at the latest sanctions against weiwei well trump called out of the Transpacific Partnership and the chinese looked around and said well that means were the only ones left they can take over asia now. And maybe thats what mr trump is thinking make America Great but its doing a lot to make china great because now they dont have any major rivals in asia and the pacific rim ensure if you know youve been talking for years about the end of the dollar or perhaps the end of the dollar as a reserve currency do you think china will be seeing this and the developments of the bank as they try and promote that as as presaging the end of the dollar or as you well know several people were several countries in the world to look. For replace mart least the competitive with u. S. Dollars it is starting to happen there are the banks that the chinese and others have developed to compete with the u. S. Dollar and its happening i mean when the pound sterling lost its status it didnt happen in a year didnt happen in a decade but it happened and the same thing is starting to happen with the us stock i know youve been saying it for a while lots of people been saying for a while and you you just put your historian hat on there saying mentioning the British Empire why has it taken so long for countries like russia china iran to start using currency swaps in rubles and renminbi this. 1st of all theres no went for structure if you call up your bank and say i want to do Something Else the bank doesnt know what to do nearly and earlier everywhere in the world including america including in iran so it takes a while for people to start thinking about it it takes a while for people to actually learn how to do it and it takes a while for people to do it a bench everybody does it is 2nd nature they know that its better off or its easy thing to do but right now i know most places in the world if you save foreign currency everybody says u. S. Dollars thats the problem and thats why people are competitors and now trying to rise because they gave us dollar and u. S. Government too much power i dont know where the run into Christine Legarde recently the famously convicted previously convicted of corruption in the French Quarter head of the i. M. F. But i mean when you meet people like that they dont seem nearly as concerned as you do and they seem relatively sanguine about the world order of the world financial architecture the bureaucrats the way you make it in that world is you you rouse up to academia or bureaucracy and you do what youre supposed to do you do what everybody else is does you accept the conventional wisdom and then all of a sudden you look around and the whole world is changed and you dont know what happened for goodness sakes if youre good and you heard lies from government bureaucrats and politicians and academics oh my goodness youre going to have real problems im not sure how many countries the United States currently sanctions but do you really think the United States might sanction turkey a nato ally turkey because its now threatening turkey after its obviously been threatening recently more on venezuela or on iran and who knows who else it should look around in the past 2 or 3 years especially the last 2 or 3 years america keeps doing contradictory things one day they say x. The next day they say why and im not sure anybody in washington has a central focus on whats going on mr trump. Doesnt seem too and then i dont know who else does you see that recently and the middle east they started attacking capture or capture one of our largest charity bases and theyre in white truck and the people in washington were badmouthing catchall right left and senate and finally somebody glimmers to drop is that they wait a minute you know one of our Largest Military bases there lets calm this down do you think ironically as well the American People seem to understand some of the things youve been saying for so many years because the word socialism is now in parlance and people like sun does talk about mass Infrastructure Projects probably a bit like china who knows as the only way to stop the kind of financial meltdown youve been predicting since 2008 were going to have another one even though the central bank in america says we want and what i said is that the next one is going to be the worst in my lifetime i dont know when its going to be i guess you should watch our team to find out when but you know in 2008 we had a problem because that too much debt well since then the debt is skyrocketed everywhere even china has a lot of debt now so no were certainly going to have another one and its going to be the worst in my lifetime now i know you are out there for all the big investors but we have here British Steel going a bust in this country and so many of the names famous for the privatizations ever since the 980 s. In this country mrs thatcher what would you suggest a government like britains to do to begin that she lies in now ahead of any big meltdown like the one youre talking about. No no national its never been good for anybody do you think the post office is a paragon of fictious it you think you cant you probably think that reprivatize the post office here i have to tell you its just the United States you go national when we had one 0 thats right they didnt profit does the post office there so over the internet i dont know the middle is a go but every room is the British Post Office nearly privatized is also in financial trouble that maybe somebody should take it maybe they should take over the American Post office and try to fix ours i was certainly not very efficient. Nationalization in my view you know we tried socialism we tried comminges and we tried it many many places many many times it has not worked maybe it will work the next time we try it but human nature is such that its not going to work while we are responding to this latest us google attack by saying theyre going to start vertical integration in their own operating system some people saying soon relatively soon china will be able to supply its own market let alone the International Markets do you see policymakers understanding whats going on in that part of the will that you invest so much in i will certainly say that sanctions have never worked theyve always hurt people in the end for instance right now every morning russian farmers wake up and say thank you mr trump he put sanctions on russian farmers russian agriculture is booming booming because of the sanctions what unfortunate is going to happen is the chinese are going to become selfsufficient in many things which means that Many American companies are going to lose their markets you say that the chinese will not be able to produce everything well but im skeptical of that statement because theyre 1300000000 chinese they produce 10 times as many engineers every year is american some of the bad engineers somehow got to be good so i dont i dont think this is going to rebound and. Heard of america rather than helpless just finally thanks for the advert for r. T. But of course a lot of us of a t. N. Around the world tend to blame george soros and i know you work closely with him what do you think about these attacks on single individuals instead of into structures when it comes to neo liberalism in the fight back against their liberalism 1st action which killed 48 was 40 years ago you might as well as me about my 1st wife you just saw it was doing nor do i care but certainly most arguments amount hanumant never been good you know if you cannot come up with a logical rational argument on your own you start attacking people thats never been a good its back when i was a kid in university where used to say if you start resorting to argumentum ad hominem that means youve lost it lost the argument jim rogers thank you well as u. K. Media picks apart the results of the e. U. Elections one thing is almost certain that the left wing case for brix it will not receive airtime on the likes of the British State mandated b. B. C. Or channel 4 something that anger is the only kissed poet actor and writer Benjamin Zephaniah whose band the revolutionary minds is currently on to a bringing views ignored by the mainstream to people across the u. K. We met him at the premises studios in east london benjamin thanks for being on going underground again while we had the premises studio in east london and what is the revolutionary minds of the tour the album the track wow. Truck. On the album i go through that by. The revolution of i think we need not necessarily one where people type of street and what i saw for the Something Different we need a bit of that mood about trying to get people to think differently im just convinced about the old way of doing stuff and just redundant the more you get up from going to point to people who are here to change you know money but you know absolutely before you know i feel like a nonissue. And thats the only way i can describe myself because i look at so many overweight people have tried and i think theyre all letting us down in one way or another and weve got to find a new way i dont know what the name of it is im not telling people have devolved im just trying to say think outside the box you know what i actually read loki redrill minister mussy folly x. Even mainstream stars like storms if youre on this music too or i mean i turn on the b. B. C. And channel 4 in britain and they often have debates about whether its the music thats part of the problem as regards arguable economic violence austerities is the 20 weight crash music as far as ive seen as not made people on imply that music is not put people into by the house in. Music and not let kids on the street hungry music is not cause homelessness music is trying to reflect those feelings lisa jailing or suspended sentences only for musicians drill music in south london the start in south london now international thats being blamed for the rise in syrias use drones i know. Artists that do drill music and what used to be cold rolled music and grime music and. A lot of them a very creative people but they live in a very hostile environment and theyre just reflecting the reality and when i started creating music it was reggae music and we were talking about employer unemployment you talk about bubbling under system it was doing it thats what it was doing to us that was our reality theres a wonderful. Sorry for quoting it may seem stereotypical for a guy with dreadlocks to be quoting him of a guy who dreadlocks but it was an interview when somebody was interviewing bob marley and said you know why is your work so political and he just didnt understand the question i grieve that it was just the thing was just an honest cause he just for im just writing about my reality on this writing about the way we live on one thing about the way we suffer im writing about the way were policed you know im writing about the way colonialism is affecting me. You didnt sit down to go and im going to write political music and i dont think you know just going to write really drill music to upset people and cause violence this is the reality more from the germans up in iran when drudge wiki leaks in the left wing case fabric sets after the break as well as a performance from the band the revolutionary minds. And politicians to do something to. Put themselves on the line they did accept the rejected. So when you want to be president im sure. Will somehow want to be rich. But youd like to be close its like that before 3 in the morning cant be good. Im interested always in the why is it our. First city. To get up off the ground yasser begins again. On the sounds of. The grenade we recently. Switched it away from the officer. We obviously did a kind of lunge for the weapon once mr anywhere. Had been done she swung and i didnt hit him i never saw any contact with you till they became a back to where they were still doubters back here to try again 15 feet apart at this point and actually have. His gun he did. Your watching going underground in part 2 of our interview with anarchist poet Benjamin Zephaniah at the premises studios in east london jimmy cliff was on this show around the time the wholesale environment story started to emerge and obviously he was suitably angry but since theresa may and the disgraced home secretary i think she might be burning now for leader this is she went weve been having african families on the show to hear about people who are in their eightys who never traveled abroad or who were people with threat of deportation people can go to funerals there are deaths in jamaica after deportation i mean surprise us going underground you youve been talking about issues to do with immigration and racism for longer does it surprise you in 1993 i pro 99 to pray joy gardner was killed she was killed by an Organization Called extradition squad but was a squad that used to go around and deport people she was in the house with her son and they came im going to quote my own poetry they put a live a belt around her fur 1000 feet of type and pound hunk officer to cure her and only god knows what else sees illegal soul the porter had the empire that brought her she died nobody killed and she never killed herself it is i would jump to make return to jamaica so the alien deported to deport people like me. The poems much longer than that i wrote that in 1993 you know this is being going on for years i used to travel to jamaica and i remember once around the same time probably a bit early and eighties getting on a plane and behind me there was a woman in handcuffs and when she saw me to recognize me she screamed Benjamin Benjamin help me please help me and i said whats the problem today deporting me deported me i came to england when i was 6 months old they send him back to jamaica i dont know how to make a brother help me help me and i got up to sit and talk with the police as the back office. And all food affrighted jamaica i could hear a cry and i just wouldnt let me go near so weve known about this for years this is the 21st century and the these plates are going on i dont know why youre so surprised no it doesnt surprise me. Its very sad that it doesnt surprise me but it doesnt surprise me not much has changed and certainly when it comes to crime of. Immigration there was no time in the home office is when the Home Office Said a stop were going to have a look at this. And and do something about it theyve just been tweaking it and then the strange thing is that we can it in the wrong direction theyre not creating an environment for these people to feel at home theyre creating a hostile environment thats not a word that living of metaphor in but i words are generated from a yes weve just recently weve had 5 People Killed in jamaica and i heard from another one does a couple of days ago after deportation yes after deportation one guy did just come back he came here while he was young but i had a driving offense and they sent him back and he said all these neighbor think is a rapist in a murder because some empathy said were only deported rape you for murder of and and hes been deported on a driving offense i dont know about you but i have a driver defense you know we get parking tickets all the time speeding tickets or department i dont you look so innocent i dont have a driver. Theres just been very big campaign about the change was ireland maybe many people have been dont know much about it. While either involved and what did you make of this court ruling that the british films are being annoying that britain has to release its imperial control of these islands in the pacific well 1st of all what you said is right every time i write or talk about these islands i get feedback from people saying never heard of it could destroy really have happened. Thats why i talk about it its so outrageous what happened does ireland and when it comes to the British Government ignore in. The courts rulings well that shows you that. When people talk about the rule of law but fine until its an inconvenience for them and then they just ignore it especially when it comes to the child island because its not really in the headlines i mean i think at the moment a lot of important things in pretty Soon International politics but im speaking from a british perspective are not in the headlines because were so overwhelmed repressive and the government are going away with a lot of things because of that i mean if you go on question time as ive been on a few times. And i. Brought that up they would tell me that its not current news you know if its not in the papers now so it would be shut down. So who decides what is current and was not current rosie feel that the know this still should be an issue very much in the news of bricks it though is the main issue in this country and i understand i mean youve been on the mainstream journals really bad is there that that one of the people that helped you through this was joanie ben the late journey beyond just tell me a bit about that about what really peddled you a break well tony benn was always anti you and. And he i