Forces which. So you are right now talking about putting down the barriers of mistrust in libya but those barriers are were actually put up way before you and for the reasons that are beyond you what makes you think that an outsider can bring them down. 1st times are. The knowledge of the country and i know as a country. Since my 1st trip to libya was i meant 69. 00. And better also so he spect was a tradition and always a completely leaves and. Going to one. While all easy to show off i think where all countries affecting over libya why not giving really begin to perceive me to have to exist as a voice and to jointly express what i would like to do is a home country shes my aim is not to make peace east to create. The fundamentals to create. For. Peace this is what im trying to do so what kind of effort do you have to make to actually bring this people together in the same room bust. Test is always a big word yes used to be when but its essential what they have done for libya for example is a following ive tied to look ive done to 5. Is a general scope of politically. 2 extremes of the scope and i for i found bishop was aides and very close to their feet and. They let you belhaj was formed it was thought but to fight has got to fit him since he has years of 70 so. And those odds are 2 weeks or so as is the one who uses it will never talk together because. One accusing the other of. The worst sinks and. So i put them together how how by convincing them that their meeting will be not to discuss. The past and what these wont but do see what they have in common what they want to force in common what is that point of conversions as far as the vehicle is is concerned and the knowing is a point of difference also a point where they dont like anyone and it happens. Of course you accept any city case by their own people or as a people of a follow else how can you meet can you see to his can you see to be sure sonny but films that meeting. Ziad agree on very simple principle about the future of libya. Is a visa should be one country should be a civilian government should be an army will respond to civilian government so this should be an independent judiciary because this is something thats what im saying like this is something that International Diplomats have been trying to do forever and youre just saying you know i convinced both sides that they shouldnt talk about the past just talk about the future and a common goal of libya this is a very simple straightforward formula that other diplomats use as well i still dont understand how it works out when you come in a dozen when other diplomats to you must have a key that others dont know what is that key thing they ever keep the one they have a past 20 do them some kind of guarantees what. You could have. A hand at the beginning it was a complete left shows are after 5 minutes no the problem is. Once you have once you are not an institution when you are not a government your voice is your voice it belongs to you and even. In your voice zen people accept to do seems they would not accept was a situation. Is this is a difference between diplomacy and official diplomacy. Diplomacy is one like everybody talks the same way it means nobody can have individual opinions they have to express what is it. Different than me i am not bound to that i can i can have i can do what i want when i want and people believe as close to me. Just one example in south africa i stopped the dialogues between white and black by an exchange of prisoners. Or than 60 people. 5 country forms 5 country and 4. Has 2 places in the. Muslim beak it did a very small sleep everything went right not one document was site so hes not the best bet. Which has been site everybody rife with his address was in plain stupid but back of the back of the president everybody believe that it should be issued that i have at that time and be part of that that. Not one people. And that it was evolving major country like hans or south africa. Mozambique so i wonder if it always goes down so sometimes i had a friend an american friend who was working at the fall of apartheid in south africa just like you and he was telling me you know every time hes in the conflict resolution as well and he was how we know every time i go for a new job i have this feeling that i know what to do i know how to fix said i know it better and after 3 years of being there he was like you just fall into this state where you understand you dont know anything and you probably will never understand anything do you ever get that feeling when you go to a new conflict to a new country where you feel like i know it im going to do this and then youre on the ground and youre trying to do your job trying trying trying and then at the end of the day you like i just dont understand anything and probably never will you were talking about success. So its good i had some success but they had also failure. I had big failure i tied to fix conflicts which i didnt succeed. So of course i am. My success but why is to give a chance to to the to peace to give a chance to peace doesnt mean that you guarantee that you will bring peace but at least you give a chance to achieve peace is what im going to tell you to do with no guarantees that i will succeed so i am much more courageous and miss more ambitious than if i am seeking ways and im going to succeed or not shes not my issue i am not sinking was what i was a chance what i was a statistic what i was a possibility for me to succeed and not interested i just say shall i do i have enough elements in my hands to try to bring peace. Do i have elements here. Are my going to put them aside to not doing what they want no of course not i go for it this is their s. Life danger at any point in your line of work where you feel like sense of superiority here i am white man from the land of perspired in peace i come to you party squabbling our solve your pain because i know better does to ever get that feeling because its dangerous theres a theres a fine line when you have so much power and trust. In your hands and you can make the processes move you can get that sense you can yeah sure i dont you dont have i am very as i dont. Sure of what im doing that i am as i am present. Tense i dont know the world in the english im sorry as i doubt about what i am doing just a feeling of superiority that can never. Because if i doubt that means that they dont have a sense of superiority. And i never go is a sense of and people know that you know we are dealing with men we do mean we human and sometimes we have to put the sides of paper and have documented. Z. Explain a. Logical explanations. To to get. Also a human side in the piece because everybody will use. People who. Is a muslim to be the most were a cock there somewhere somehow was hoping for peace so want peace is it easy for your good i think maybe something good one worst and sense of superiority that a lot of big powers get while theyre going in conflicts ignorance because right now we see a lot of politicians. They dont have the understanding of the region when they actually act in that region they dont know the complexity of the fragility of the places that they affect for instance i remember president obama saying that not lack of planning in libya was probably one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency just recently norway admitted having no idea what they were doing when they send their claims to bomb libya and we see that happening actually a lot where does this tour approach come from i mean should they elected leaders be sent to some mandatory job or have political lessons about the world because this happens all the time. You know when you when you start to do something and its valid for government or individuals dont try to dont. Seem twice before you. Even need to bad and you replace it by the worse and unfortunately whats happened more and more in the past you you you want to change it to take off of good take of the bad but you replace it by something less of the bad you have taking off and for me of course how can you avoid that you avoid it by. Z. Z. Z. Because when when you leave a conflict by keating and theres a conflict when you when you you you you solve a solution by kidding another of the people you face but when you deal. With. The c. D. C. As if youve bought do you really want to build a future together then you are avoiding. A place to go from bad to worse here were going to take a short break right now while we come back well continue talking about harold the promise and what is it and is it more effective beneficial the promise and stay with us. A. Bit. But im also the most companies you know. Its compass feet almost communist cuba nobody goes from didnt you know its exclusive you just pull you if you are called. Someone. You see live in the. Kind of miniscule. Little kid. Always stay. In that. Ok your list. Goes on lol mindy. This is the poseidon adventure mixed with the titanic in one colossal sinking of the Global Economy right now. Starring with the ghost of paul newman on the bridge of the titanic watching as they engineer colazal failure of the Global Economy. Why a paradise with all year round into a round the experimentation field for agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritants theres no question otherwise why would the Chemical Company workers themselves be geared up that suited up locals attempt to combat the on regulated experiments good often in day you have many of these people one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes on the chemicals continue to poison hawaii and its people so one has to ask the question whether there is a form of Environmental Research going on in hawaii or whether these Companies Feel they can get away with this because the people have less political power. And were back with the funny yet expert in peril diplomacy and the chairman of the foundation and i remember you expressing your opinion in the early times of the syrian conflict escalation you were about wrote about wars of good versus evil. That was you rightly said that you know that youve said that this is led by us and they can longer force on everyone because balance of power is shifting so i always think of why does the United States still go over and over again for the same strategy of fighting the black and white good versus evil wars when it has brought all the asli so much misery to the world and to themselves in the 1st place why not to me to answer to this question youre a true diplomat no im not to me. Why should a express an opinion on the battle of any american no i. Am pretty sure says it will worse yes. I am just saying we have to be very worried. That you we by taking something bad will be placings by subsidy given us and this story as prove that some of the actions taken by this one those. Have been they placing something bad something event with us. We leave that to the 20th century and. Those mistakes because while as you said about president obama they were not planning after what do we do after how out and for me i am thinking this after has a very fundamental bass and after has to be a consideration if that is a consideration they can be exchange of opinion it can be democracy at last im not talking about western democracy or eastern democracy or specifically democracy a book the ability of the people to decide of their own future. Only be done. Before they considerations here and that is here so you just mentioned earlier in the into that parallel the promise in official diplomacy its pyro because they go without crossing pass so that means that youre not part of the system right official system there that this stablish meant was when you do your job as a diplomat. A lot of your Success Stories in the african period they were tied to the hall they were tied to shock so you kind of are in the system or are you completely not part of the system. After certain moments its time for the system to take over. I am. I am not here to make peace i am here to facilitate peace who is going to make peace izzie a situation because you need 20 agreement its one which i am not thinkable to to take so yes and to certain moment there is lets say if. Some people accept it some countries accept it there is a like of communication and. A takeover by country of 2 brings everything to lose if in the finality when i did so. Which led to the independence of namibia and for the 1st time as a cuban and the american were sitting at the same table with are together with the south africans younger than it was i have the political has been signed. It was taken by the un and there was a big show in. Un for the signing of the agreement i was not even invited i want to invent it nobody invited me when they all know that i was initiated this because this time at a certain moment of the official takeover and i have dont pretend that i can replace what is off the show of course not i am not here to the place anybody i am not here to to do. To i am here to help to assist not to replace did the official diplomats listen to your advice as an outsider or do they really try to shut you down because its competition. Then we have to go back to the human natur i have extolled the need for their friends with our diplomats and zander said what i do and prove what it. Of course. They belong to. Myself probably not but then again it is not white and black its i have very good friends we have diplomats they had. They have no problem with them because it is really allies that bring some seeing. The progress but of course it is situation we dont like me maybe they dont like successes or has have your political convictions or i dont know moral convictions ever get in the way of doing the job as a imperil the commissary for instance this guy i cannot talk to that want to talk to or whatever you feel personally is always irrelevant if you have to make peace and make people reconcile. There is not one person in the planet have so i would have a few sort of course never one. As criminally can be i will accept if he is a lady to talk about peace i will talk to him of course in the beginning of the interview said that i bring fighting sides to one table because there is trust you know they trust me and they trust that you know with they come together its going to be for the better of the common cause does this always work how do you make people who are not willing to reconcile change their mind or this is only work when they actually do want to negotiate deep inside you see this is a technique between records. When i did i did the 1st conference which is in may in the car which is called now that i won because hopefully we are going to have a dugout to. I did invite also people said i didnt know who are the people but ive done these i went to bishops alley i went to a billet village and i said please convince your friends to come to the conference so exam. Ive been convincing their friends to come to the conference so i was not exposed as a person the test was. Jump jumping from one person to the other but at the end of this way also. Because if i would have been the one whod been travelling with my leg age and going to to see the people i want to invade to convince maybe i would not have succeeded because it dawned on me and of us of me they who were his white men in the libyan conflict as you say. But if a amusing somebody was done by said. Thats a different course says something which is you dont very briefly when i started to be interested in africa i had a chance i was very young i was 20 i was me i was invited for dinner by a very fantastic man we were president of a could devise a few what he calls. Me and he invited me sort of a lunch and he was listening to me and i was interested he got a call in what i want to do with africa an hour into africa i was there and theres the end of the dinner he said you are interested with africa i am going to give you only one advice only one never enter an african village if you are not accompanied by somebody who is known by the village. And they have apply. All my life is. A caution is the. Beginning is never given by myself is given by somebody who has a test of a person. And it works so i realize that there are no guarantees of any kind of anything when you get 2 people when you get people in the same room that have been killing each other for such a long time so its a big deal that they sit down but what is the success rate usually those people who have been feuding for so long ok theyre in the same room what is the success rate after they Start Talking have you im sure youve. Already there in your personal theory i dont i dont count ok but let me tell you something is where the dialogue is the most essential because that means easy and accepted to meet. It has been a patient it was a meeting is not is not. No idea what theyre going to discuss their bed so india actually india take the dialogue has been established between them probably most probably most of the time for me so. They dont. Have before they meet. Evaluated appreciative. That it was going to be very detail very sour and i was already but i never experienced. A moment where i put 2 parties together and no one has left the home never explained that they might not and. It did happen in the car one when after mrs. Delegates. Accepted to be on the plane our charter did that but when this all was going to be in their homes i said no we cannot sit there with the same people in the left so. The. Ways that. I never experimented but do you know like gestures words that are it already like signal to you that theres going to be a deal here do you feel yes dance or are this like a center for ages and is when youre intervene. You you know youre not. He manes as long as it is not. Beginning or slight of conflict your positions then yes you have to intervene and calm down and tell people that she is what you mean shes what the ones in the end of the day maybe you you can match and. You feel it you. Knew you feel at the time. You you sure you should. And having yes when you work on a complicated conflict like syria. And if not then what would you advise people to do there no i would never work on the conflicts that sit here because unfortunately syria is going to be young people of syria of syria i still believe that in libya yes not yet living where it goes beyond the people of libya in syria has gone beyond the people of syria is a pretty people of syria today doesnt count i mean its. So what will be my role to to do to have Syrian Government matching. Us government and. Order and i dont have the keys and. I cannot and that is a given i dont im not following so since well good luck in the cases that you are involved in unsure theyre going to be successful like most of the cases you have undertaken thank you much but this is thank you very much its been a pleasure it was been a pleasure for me to. Look. In this community and there are people who believe that its ok to substract food i might say its really hard there are no jobs and you see that that kids ask and as a parent. I can come up with a logical argument theres a lot of conflict in the game between the c