Albright was dispatched by bill clinton to pyongyang candy john went and met with kim jong il who is kim jong uns father then head of north korea but when there was taking place at that time it was with washingtons blessing and as a consequence we see right now and this is why i consider this to be a Pivotal Moment its a test of whether or not the south korean government which is clearly looking over its shoulder to see how much resistance its getting from washington will be able to finally take a step to emerge as a truly sovereign entity and able to carry out with in korean politics and on the Korean Peninsula its own policy. Its a shame you certainly dont see north korea looking over its shoulder to see whether russia or china approves of its moves but here you have south korea with tens of thousands of american troops still in south korea and they they arrived in september one thousand nine hundred five theyre still there. North korea doesnt have foreign troops on its soil so that is the big test will south korea be able to resist the pressure from washington its the republicans its the democrats its the military Industrial Complex its the cia none of that none of those institutional Power Centers in washington want there to be a real rock taking place in korea by koreans without the supervision of the americans gregory went way you know on that because you know what what leeway does south korea have to make any kind of reproach with the north if there is a mutual engagement in any engagement that is real ok i mean i think western viewers tend to forget is that these are the two countries that could suffer the most if there is a complex here they have a real vested interest to start sitting down and deescalating what is been happening over the last few months here so what is the leeway the South Koreans have gregory in Columbus Police you know of course we dont know what kind of discussions theyre going on behind the scenes between trump and moon and i imagine theres an enormous amount of pressure being applied on. However if you look back through former president normal here who was the south korean president during the time of george w. Bush he also was facing enormous pressure from the United States yet he went ahead and went to pyongyang and met kim jong il and he signed a series of economic agreements so here he was much more forthright. Warming relations with north korea than we have been who seems rather too cautious to me so i dont know if thats the nature of who the third threats that are going on behind the things one can only speculate but it is in the interests of the Korean People both north and south that move to act now and take the lead improving relations between the two koreas and pick and accepting the open hand from the North Koreans regardless of what washington its the Korean People who would pay the price if trump unleashes their. Or if the north Korean People are currently paying the price of economic. Structure and caused by. Corny and sanctions i think if time for thought create a committee you know brian you hear in the in western media is that. North korea is trying to be a wedge between your breakaway the United States and in south korea but its actually the United States is the wedge between north korea and south korea go ahead its just amazing i mean korea has been a unitary entity with the with the common culture for so long for thousands of years in fact and here because north South Koreans want to talk to North Koreans and vice versa thats a wedge for america which is thousands of miles away it shows the arrogance and hubris and i would say the racism the architectural racism of the of the whole paradigm whereby south korea does not have the right to carry out its own independent negotiations you are right peter the wedge in korea is the United States korea was divided at the thirty eighth parallel because a couple of americans who didnt know anything about korea drew a line and they showed it to their soviet counterparts and the two sides agreed that there would be two zones of control in the Korean Peninsula and then five years later when soviet troops and american troops had temporarily for the soviets permanently left the Korean Peninsula there was a war and the war began in june one thousand nine hundred fifty it was the unsettled issue of the postwar configuration north korea had considered itself to be an independent the japanese colonial fighting force and the south korean government was created by the americans and it was just the lackeys of the south of the japanese who were put into place and they ruled by virtue of a military dictatorship now we have a situation where the United States does not want to give up its control over south korea because south korea one is an important military base for the United States and creates party. A network of bases along with the eleven american bases in japan is part of the ongoing asia pivot socalled that obama announced but really has been going on for a lot longer since before then so the United States is a fearful that south korea could become independent thats the real issue what does north korea want north korea wants the security guarantee they want to and the u. S. South Korean Military exercises that simulate the destruction of their country that take place twice a year theres a possibility for a negotiated outcome here there is one obstacle the real obstacle to a negotiated outcome of the Korean Peninsula crisis is in washington d. C. Its not pyongyang or and so. Greg you know part of the Security Architecture of south korea is that if there is some kind of conflict a major conflict the entire control of the Korean Military is under an american four star general i mean as an expert on korea i mean how does that sit with the korean population when they know that you know its going to be the United States ultimately its going to control that determine their security future and then you have a. Reaching out its hand we dont know if its real we dont know if its genuine we dont know if this is just a ploy i mean its a small step optics or something but i mean how does south korea feel about that i mean maybe one time they needed that kind of security guarantee but its well its a very powerful rich country. How does that play into their thinking about dealing with north korea go ahead gregory. You mentioned agreement that in war time the u. S. Military would pick command of the korean for food and i should. Have been more times in the past and so the thought career would have control with fourth of the war time but its time. But you were or conservative thought career and president. Of keep getting. Which is farther and farther into the future and unfortunate were still stuck in the situation i think right now is probably making south Korean People quite nerve worth when you have a very direct with trump administrator who seem to be rather a blip to you through the harm caused by launching strikes the north korea so i think that makes people in south korea quite nervous but i think the us military is not in the habit of respecting the wishes of the fellow Korean People or even the full Korean Military look at how the us imposed the fab battery on south korea without. Prior approval or even his and therefore knowledge it came as a surprise to him that the us was imposing a battery or look at how the us the few with the pay the in. Cleaning up the environment destruct destruction on the military base and since close. I dont think through the south Korean People are happy being vulnerable to whatever the us military command you know what i mean let me go back to running these things out into Missile Defense i mean it just makes south korea target you know that the us says its there to protect their interests but actually its not the us that is targeted the actually this Missile System is targeted against china and again korea is right smack in the middle of all this go ahead brian indeed i mean that stands for the terminal High Altitude area defenses meaning it provides an anti Missile Defense so called for for missiles that are at High Altitude if there was a war between north and south korea north korea wouldnt be sending up High Altitude missiles to hit so just thirty miles from the d. M. Z. I mean on its face its absurd and ridiculous clearly if that is against is designed to threaten china and to threaten russia to achieve what the americans hope to be a first strike capability exercising military surprise. Seeing the future by ringing china and russia with these kind of Missile Defense programs that make a first strike. First strike assault possible heres another thing and i think greg is right and its very important that the pentagon rushed to deploy a fad before and during the transition between pocky and he and because they thought would be a liberal and because the liberals and the opposition inside of south korea didnt want it so they just ran down the throat of the people of south korea i mean clearly ok american guy and i think this is an important hang on hang hold on to that point bryan were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on the korean stay with us. Join me everything on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to guests of the world of politics or business im showbusiness ill see you. The but. The been. Playing. With him a good manufacture consent instinctive public wealth. When the ruling classes project themselves. In the primary your realm lives only the one percent told. Us to bring all middle of the room sick. To lose millions is really the world. About your sudden passing ive only just learned you were a selfish and taken your last wrong turn. Youre out to cut up to us we all knew it would i tell you im sorry i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. I remember when we first met my life turned on each fret. But then my feeling started to change you talked about war like it was again still some more fun to feel those that didnt like to question our arc and i secretly promised to never be like it said one does not leave a funeral the same as one enters the mind its consumed with the death of this one to. Speak to because there were no other takers. To. That Mainstream Media has. Just. Server i want to do it just show me very soon we will be very clear. Away. And they are they they are what they have and they have. To feel. Something what do you have to. Do you wonder. Whats going on if this was not about i want to be in the book that measures dont want to talk about next. Welcome back to crossfire all Things Considered im Peter Belcher and you were discussing the koreas. Ok and now id like to bring in another guest in cambridge hes an assistant professor at breaux college City University of new york as well as a specialist on korea and the asia and Asian Affairs i welcome professor to the program sorry it was a little bit late ken id like to ask you a very kind of general question here we have after this public ceremony that we had with the north korean delegation meeting with the south the opening up the game so it was very optically rich we can put it that way but. After we had that optically rich experience we have very conflicting messages coming out of washington from the secretary of state taylor said and. We have Vice President pence saying you know he was very brusque im sure he was that was. A message that was sent intentionally and then we have what he said maybe we could talk some kind under certain conditions we all know what those conditions are and then we have secretary of state tillerson basically saying no i mean what what is washington saying what kind of message is it sending to the careers if any right now go ahead and right now i think its a really confusing mess and as you know well you know. Whitehall and state department and all of those key Decision Makers repeatedly highlighted that everything is on the table but everything on the table it seems to have been or they want to emphasize a military option or even regime change on the one hand but at the same time they repeatedly highlighted that united state is ready to talk so still u. S. Government position in dealing with north korean crisis is no confusing and mixed masses in terms of dealing with kims im going kind of you know socalled you know madman present from to try to deal with the madman in terms of more mad men kind of you know you know creating uncertainty. But one of the critical problem of the u. S. Government is moral lives and International Relations of course north korean regime is a very horrible and condition there is really horrible and disastrous but if we moralize you know russia relations and like you know absolutely right and absolutely wrong so its kind of approach would be not good in terms of dealing with a crisis situation. If i go back to gregory in columbus i mean the trumpet ministration is said that it will apply maximum pressure on north korea but also. Also. I mean i dont see any of the engagement and then when someone doesnt gauge the South Koreans they get snubbed for a day. Actually did you just think washington was caught off food on all of this i mean because we have again we have these conflicting reactions coming out of washington go ahead greg i actually dont think there are conflicting reactions coming out of washington so if you read very carefully where you are a Washington Post article in which penned Fourth Quarter down there in return flight from what do you actually fed was with that being nuclearization have to be and then theres so. Because of taken this whole step could be nuclear if they think the u. S. Is open to talks preliminary talks during which of course you were lay out of them and actually negotiate you know greg no greater than the one moment but go ahead go ahead go ahead mark just one more the precondition for negotiations is for north korea to suspend fully with other words give the United States what it wants. And you can begin ok well thats just great bryan i mean the North Koreans saw what happened to libya they saw what happened in iraq and why in the in a lot of people have speculated thats why they have gone down the nucular road ok i mean why in the world would the North Koreans give up this program and expose themselves when theyre being threatened with a bloody nose you know seven ways to sunday its absurd whats coming out of washington now that if they havent thought it through as usual go ahead brian your question answers itself in fact and north korea wont give up its Nuclear Program and the United States knows the u. S. Wont korea wont give up its Nuclear Program. And maximum pressure just for our audience to understand what this these these euphemistic terms mean the United States is trying to create famine in north korea when you deprive people of trade in deprive them of food. Rudin deprive them of medicine youre trying to create famine to weaken the government and thats what the u. S. Did to iraq before invading iraq sanctions were in place for thirteen years according to the uns own statistics a million iraqis died because of that and then the us invaded so sanctions and war go hand in hand sanctions an open war we have a situation where north korea not only learned the lesson of iraq it gave up its weapons of mass destruction or libya and then the countries were invaded in the leaders were executed it also is fully aware of what happened to east germany it does not want to be swallowed up by a more internationally connected second half of the country so the north korean government is acutely aware of the imperative need for its own security and thats all it really seeks here is a security guarantee you i wanted to mention one thing peter real quick. Lindsey graham represents a certain sector of American Public political thinking where he said you know lets get that war over with yeah yeah you know plays golf with donald trump oh yeah lets get the war over with because all the undying will be over there that it goes back to your earlier question theres kind of a gratuitous you know moral and ethical position of american policy makers lets have a war because only koreans or japanese or people from the from the asia pacific will die thats a minority sentiment right now but i think its a sentiment thats playing well trying to convince the trusted ministration to reverse course here when they go down that road and thats why they want to have a parade afterwards ok let me go back to the professor in cambridge doesnt it doesnt the u. S. Put it