Said is this way tony blair is now back on the seam every other day talking thinking a lot of his fill in your party ready to take it over i dont think thats a fair characterization actually i mean weve got the democracy review going on right now thats going to be looking at a range of Different Things about how we elect our leader and so on at the moment the terms of reference dont include how we select our recount if its for parliament bought that is something which i think if there is lots of representations from Party Members then i think thats something that they will take on board but the democracy will also be very clear about looking at how we can build this Mass Movement and how we can integrate the party more ensuite local community so that the labor party isnt you know an institution that does politics to people it does politics with people and i think its really important we embed the party we are must movement now but we embed it still further into the local communities that we represent and a lot of work is going to be being done on a lot of consultation. At this moment and so on and you know i think about this in a much stronger much better place because that Mass Movement will not only help to sweep. Jeremy over the threshold of number ten downing street it will then help to sustain is in power when we get there because really thank you. Should as Chris Williams said just britains multibillion pound medicine industry nationalize we speak to the good in the video global justice now and u. K. Pm tourism a slams jeremy goldmans labor body for its track record in health care at this weeks news poll the ball coming up in part two of going underground. Yes it was a pretty worthless blog for you. Yeah i mean the whole the last election i believe the words we were going to marry were all suitable for the new stuff and we will push it out so. People thank you from Time Magazine named you to go on the scots more with you but you could still be you know t. G. V. Easy showed the reason you did. The took. The secret of the irish do you can you get other qualities. Welcome back well in the first half of the show we spoke to former shadow emergencies minister Chris Williams a new call for the nationalization of the pharmaceutical industry im joined now by the director of n. G. O. S global justice now nick dearden their report pills and profits looks at whether Drug Companies are making a killing out of Public Research nic thanks for going back on the show before we get to what was really observe was talking about tell me about this report well essentially i mean people know ive known for a long time that the pharmaceutical industry is completely dysfunctional if you want to other industry is important medicines to be researched at the lowest price that we can research them but not everyone would be reaching well maybe not but i think that the pharmaceutical industry has had a very bad rap historically and its fully deserved it and so we thought that we did look into what the situation was now especially bearing in mind all of the News Headlines weve had about the n. H. S. Going to crisis and so on and of course a lot of that has to do with underinvestment in the n. H. S. But some of it is actually to do with the amount of money the n. H. S. Is paying for medicines often paying Big Pharmaceutical Companies british swiss and American Pharmaceutical Companies who are massively over inflating the price of their medicine give or take a lady weve got the latest figures when did testament develop Single Company research they have new drugs and of course theyre going to i think theyve risen in price to the n. H. S. By a third of years because thats a testament to how good they are well thats an interesting statistic youve got that certainly nine percent rise in five years of the amount of money just a rise in the amount of money the n. H. S. Pays for its medicines thats that thats the same amount of money more than the amount of money that the n. H. S. Deficit comes to so a very very large amount of money for the n. H. S. Now you can say well theyre producing important drugs of course fine the problem is twofold first of all many of those trucks have actually been researched with our money with taxpayers money the government hands over money and we use our University System to research we do some of the best research in the world research. New medicines that are vital for saving lives and reducing suffering and and yet we put no conditions on that money that we give to the pharmaceutical industry ultimately because theyre the ones that develop the drugs and so they can end up charging whatever they want essentially whatever the market will stand and we know this because weve got a couple of examples so you look at one drug that was made it treated leukemia but it also treated and was very effective in treating multiple sclerosis now when Pharmaceutical Company comes in to a company concerned find out about this and they really issued the drug for m. S. For multiple sclerosis and they thought we can charge way more for this than we could for leukemia because the market will stand it and the price rose from Something Like two and a half thousand pounds for one treatment to fifty five thousand pounds it rose twenty two fold for no other reason than the market will accommodate that and what that means is first of all youre not getting Drugs Research that we desperately need because theres no profit in it easy to be argue that we should be getting the only one arguing we lost with the other show about subsidizing the arms industry innovate were subsidizing the pharmaceutical industry but to try and save lives but if were subsidizing it lets put conditions on those subsidies or even better lets run it in a public way when using the government doesnt impose conditions give it with all this taxpayer money sloshing around i think its very similar to its like what you just said about the arms industry many people say we dont have an industrial policy in this country actually i think we do have an industrial policy we subsidize and support the arms industry and we subsidize and support the pharmaceutical industry via the money we get for research and development and through the n. H. S. And what it means is now were at a stage where really vital medicines that we all need because our entire medical knowledge depends on them like antibiotics havent been researched properly because the pharmaceutical Companies Say we dont want to go near that because theres not enough money to be made at the end of the day we dont want to fall back antibiotic almost no ones going to. By until it comes out of its monopoly status until it loses its patron because we cant make any money on that you reportedly is in the u. K. The second largest subsidize are all of our r. And d. And its in the developing world were helping the developing world with its research sometimes yes but if we really want to help. Get those people who desperately need these drugs access to these drugs we need to control the prices the charge and thats what we dont do at the moment we have no control over the pharmaceutical industry we say yes it would be lovely to research these drugs we give subsidies for it sometimes the pharmaceutical industry takes that up but at the end of the day if you dont have any control over how those drugs are going to be marketed and whats going to be charged for them the people who most need them wont be able to get them would you if youre a big Pharmaceutical Company having been subsidized on a particular meds by the british taxpayer you know were going to want to price it self so that it wont be available on the n. H. S. You would think so however we see time and time and time again the n. H. S. Through a nice body that recommends is this affordable or not as effective or not just right and saying we cant recommend this at this time because its just too expensive in the british taxpayers subsidize the research exactly of the group of yes so some of the very drugs that we have researched especially in the early stages and of course thats where the most of the risk comes from and this is an old story isnt it the Public Sector supports the most risky phases of development an early stage the pharmaceutical Companies Take that research and they go on and marketed and patent it and so they can charge what they want at the later stages when its less risky so if you look globally the early stages of research about two thirds of the money comes from public institutions. So great but what that what we then do is give those drugs that medical knowledge to people who essentially have a monopoly over those drugs for the next there was a page of years of drug patient it and thats core to whats wrong with the whole system we hear all sorts about the wonders of the free market and competition and so on but actually here you have an industry were not talking about the free Market Competition the tool youre talking about an Old Fashioned private monopoly which in through International Trade laws with few. Tolerate any competition so essentially for twenty years they can do what they want would you admit though that our lawmakers are bulletins need to be hanging out with big Pharmaceutical Company big wigs to keep an eye on them is that what theyre doing with having dinner with the job will go to the bosses my fear is that theres a real parallel you can draw here between the pharmaceutical industry in the Financial Sector where politicians of course say this is a really important sector for our economy but unfortunately they dont therefore say we need to regulate it tax it and make sure it works in the public liberal as your report claims that the people from the volatile industry are given preferential places on Research Boards in this country exactly exactly so the whole way the system works including how effective a drug is. You do not have to have proper transparency and accountability for the way you do that research so pharmaceutical companies dont have to release research that proves their drugs arent affected if they only have to release the research that proves they are effective so the whole system from top to bottom has been created in the interest of pharmaceutical corporations and when politicians meet with them and stay close to them i fear theyre not keeping an eye on them and trying to control them what theyre actually doing is it works the other way around theyre actually taking their instructions and taking their orders from the men of course pharmaceutical companies as we saw with the banks ten years ago were saying to regulators if you tax us if you try to control us well go somewhere else and thats why even a very very senior Goldman Sachs employee jim oneill has said if the pharmaceutical industry is not careful in a few years time its going to be in exactly the same situation the banks are in today with huge public contempt and hatred for the fact that they have destroyed the medical knowledge of the last hundred years seventy years fifty years. Through their monopoly status and through driving for ever higher profits rather than trying to trying to do something to improve ordinary peoples lives you know because of ours because williams and his. The the all of your report is that a factor that has anyway or at least the losses dont go as far as the british labor. Because over that it should be im happy to go that far im happy to say should be nationalized but actually i think its a i think is a bigger issue than just looking at Old Fashioned nationalization for example yeah ok the government might take over a Pharmaceutical Company but i dont really care if the government is involved in researching and marketing suntan lotion for example what i want is the essential medical knowledge that we all rely on to be held in common at a global level i mean this is knowledge that if we are to advance our societies if were to actually create more equal societies where people dont suffer unnecessarily as they do in their millions today this knowledge needs to be open to wall and that means not just the British Government it means we need to find a completely different way of doing this research and development and i hope for those governments that read this in the south because you know there have been governments over the years that have taken on the pharmaceutical companies at great cost the Indian Government especially the South African government over the years i hope that this gives them a little bit about munition to say actually is no reason at all why we cant just make exceptions to trade law as theyre allowed to do and simply license these drugs for local generic production just briefly until we get to that stage what is someone supposed to do if theyre in the western european the United States if private Health Insurers are offering them cheaper drugs and they should be less proven efficient drugs say here on the National Health service being given a drug you can google them now well it was to do when they know theyre being given drugs that arent as modern as they should be. Campaign this is a political issue and we need political change is a Great Organization weve been working with called just treatment which takes patients whove had to crowd source for their own drugs so that they can receive treatment for cancer and so on because the n. H. S. Cant afford these drugs they need to campaign and put pressure on and we all know that the press is interested in people who are suffering unnecessarily when the n. H. S. Is unable to provide because. The high prices charged by the pharmaceutical companies so i think this ones got real legs and we see progress in it what id like to see a government doing is saying actually this drug is so essential and by the way we helped to fund and research the research for this drug say essentially do the same as india and south africa have done in the past say we dont recognise this monopoly this is too much of an emergency issue a compulsory license and issue generic production and that would give the pharmaceutical industry some pause for thought it need good and thank you well even the bars of westminster that i went to this week seem relatively empty as the British Government focuses on brics is arguably to the detriment of other pressing austerity issues facing the people in the vacuum political gossip about britains foreign secretary Boris Johnson telling minority leader to resume who was in davos this week to address the crisis in the n. H. S. Again currency throughout Mainstream Media it was something labor leader Jeremy Corbyn jumped on at this weeks Prime Ministers questions does the Prime Minister agree with the foreign secretary that the National HealthService Needs an extra five billion pounds tourism a defacto claims shes bringing six times more than she did to former ulster paramilitary into m. P. s just stay in power and that the n. H. S. Will be putting six billion pounds more international i apparently not the only problem with that mr speaker is it was two point eight billion spread like thin gruel over two years and it wasnt just those figures being fiddled alleged corbin in december the month just gone n. H. S. England recorded its worst ever performances with more patients than ever waiting over four hours now the u. K. Statistics authority say the numbers may be worse because the figures have been fiddled fiddling accident in emergency statistics bizarrely to resume answered by pointing to the andy corbin Welsh Labor Party leadership as an example of how poorly he would run the n. H. S. England four hundred ninety seven people were waiting more than twelve hours but the latest figures on. Down to the labor government in wales three thousand seven hundred on. The way. Cool been said it was under funding from tory run westminster that was to blame for his partys record in wales labor government wouldnt be underfunding the n. H. S. A labor government funded by n. H. S. The company wouldnt be on the funding social now a labor government would be committed to an n. H. S. Free at the point of use as a human right now as a chance logistic elated pm drazen may just as you perhaps said to the foreign secretary twenty four hours earlier said health care was not about cash the only answer he ever comes up with is the question of money given the u. K. Health care system is funded in a low a fraction of g. D. P. In france or germany it is arguably all about money it certainly is when it comes to support for lower taxes on the multinationals supporting to raise a maze conservative party thats it for the show will be back on monday twenty four hours up to thousands march to remember bloody sunday well off can pay member of parliament chris has a weather now mystique a war crimes allegedly committed by british soldiers in island could endanger the good friday agreement until then you can keep in touch by social media will be back on monday seventy is the day that mexico granted communist poets. Asylum and its embassies and capital santiago. To one british man using a restoration and said over. So ma