movements and all of them failed my friends if you look what happened in egypt there were a lot of use sites organized through facebook they went to tahrir square to the front the military dictatorship a lot of people were killed in a struggle and they threw out the military dictatorship and then after is it ok now what do we do ok we're going to sit down and have a discussion and then they side to talk and in rushed a group of guys with a vision with a plan with an idea that was able to rally enough people behind them to go to take the power and that group was the muslim brotherhood and no after the same liberals and from the military came back and then and they asked the military to come but rescue them from the islamists in this in this country when there's been a lot of political movements like occupy like fifteen and so on a lot of movements a hot huge amount of will behind them had a huge amount of meant. it's like the arab spring. why. are these revolutions the only in syria. with the sin in roach of the they were able to see it succeed they were in the right usually answered and that is because they have a lot of experience of fighting against states in various countries they're pretty battle hardened and that kind of ideology has been sustained not by. essentially for decades and. i don't want to be too contradictive but i think that all due respect they haven't been given a chance to build their state to the same extent as let's say the muslim brotherhood in egypt has because they have never formally came to power sure they control certain territories in syria but again syria is a war torn country and those conditions are. not a regular conditions in the beginning of the syrian civil war there is a very big syrian opposition that was supported by most of the western states qatar saudi arabia. the kurdish movement was very small movement it was only if in strip of land in north syria. what happened is the syrian government imploded turkish grillers crossed over the mountains into syria and they were able to organize the population to get to get them to organize economically to create a civil administration to form their own self-defense committees. that they had like a plan and a vision for the society they said ok guys this is what we're doing this is how we're going to do it and not only that the needs to be the nice to be something that brings people together and so. in. syria. what they what they have is a sense of historical trajectory a sense of destiny. this able to give people enough give people the will the energy to work towards something bigger and to bring the population together for instance you can go to any tom and city and there's an uncultured into . a comic center media center. melissa polity many different places and there's people working on all different kinds of projects i have been a critic communities and i just had just what you're saying that way let me finish but this people working on different kinds of projects but this is energy is feeling of solidarity between people because there are no single trajectory when you go from somewhere like that to the west you just feel that energy is completely gone and it's not because they're in a war is not because they're noise because it's a belief in a society now in the west where we find ourselves is a nihilist there's a paralysis in the promises in the society people no longer believe in anything you somehow manage to and. when the or in the north in syria because i know that for many that term is. controversial term so let's explain our viewers how on earth somebody like you who was mostly preoccupied fifty phonology development of bitcoin and it up in northern syria fighting against isis isn't a most somebody who's only just worked on technology or have a long political history. as somebody who is committed to social change and in the end of two thousand and fourteen just by accident i discovered about the struggle of the. original just dismissed is it's a communist but the more that i began to read about the ideas for how they wanted to transform the middle east than someone who's familiar with the middle east. is something really compelling about what they were saying and i found out that they had a revolution in north syria and i didn't know whether it was real or not i didn't know is this actually existing or is it just a much much unary but i did see something there was really intriguing and there's a felt drawn to is not something i was i had a choice in the much as felt myself drawn to it and then. there was a moment where isis attacked kabbani looked like it was about to be destroyed and then as someone who could themselves. hear of some people struggling for an accused ideology if i didn't somebody with the skill with the ability to go and help those people in their existential struggle in a moment of need then my whole life i'd not be a hypocrite mr tact even if you are very motivated and certainly seems like you are it still takes shady logistics to get to northern syria i know that from her personal experience it's not easy to travel there you have to make quite a few illegal crossings if you ever get there so what what about it how do you actually and up there starting from what i believe was london right you were in london at that time was in spain. yeah it was it was pretty shady trying to contact people on facebook. originally i had one trip planned so i could go there for my birthday but then i had to cancel that trip because i was unsure about the people and made arrangements with another group of people. when i got to iraq ago arrested. for they were going to deport me to baghdad so yeah it was it was a very different moment to foreign to go now north of syria now it's a bit more structured been the moment is a chaotic situation everybody was basically going to the front of. but it was really worthwhile experience it was there in one near i couldn't have seen ten years else worth now i've seen you being described as an idealist and from my personal experience being on the frontline solves that problem i mean do you become released very very quickly from seeing all the violence and all the bloodshed around you and i think one other transformation that if this happened to me it was that you understand it's not about the best of options it's all often about choosing the lesser evil as much as you despise the state don't you think that the state is the lesser evil compared to let's say a fascist cult like isis people in the west jobs their entire lives jobs that they know is completely meaningless as no purpose whatsoever somebody ten years on retirement which is to get money which is basically printed by central bank by a small group of financial elite. the way that we structure our society in the west is in the past the people used to be raised with religion with a belief or with a set of values which gave them a guide in life how they lived their life and that was something that brought the society together as a group of people today the type of western model of civilization is to participate in a civilization or you have to do is follow some russian or functions you don't you don't need to absorb vast reservoirs of spiritual teachings you just need to perform your role function in a society like a robot like a mechanic or project and now we're even talking about replacing the human beings with. themselves to putting human beings into virtual reality uploading our brains to. dish to consciousness i mean why are you the issue with the course of one sort of his element rather than the state medical structure what the state is exists for is to. increased the accumulation to develop the material abundance but doesn't necessarily bring people more freedom we have to understand about the middle east is in this era of modernity the the middle east which is a very rich historical culture with his own rightful legacy the same way the same way as russia also has its own civilization has been completely marginalized pushed to one side seen as something that is not could be redone in the west image i think that ambition has been clearly articulated by mainly western leaders what we have to understand is that people in the middle east have a deep desire to live meaningful purposeful lives to be close to some sense of the divine. this but unfortunately in the western western system that we live in doesn't see the aspect of the reality that aspects of the life that saw the middle and that's why in the middle east so what happened is in the middle east which is at the bottom of all of the global civilisations the kurds at the bottom of all of the nations in the middle east when leader of the p.k. k. went to prison in turkey. what happened is in the beginning the kurdish struggle in turkey was started as a nationalistic communist struggle and in ninety is what they saw as the the open pandora's box that was a huge amount of death from both sides the tens of thousands of people because really bloody vicious war and when i. went to prison he said to think so i think why why are there so many problems in the middle east and the conclusion he came to is that this system of nation states doesn't fit the middle east that people going to be the only respect i have. been i think there is quite a bit of where there are destructive input from abroad it probably was definite if it is state in the middle is the. are usually authoritarian in nature not very developed sometimes backward looking with the not very efficient economy at large youth populations unemployed youth populations but there was also quite a bit of a negative input from many western countries starting with iraq later in libya also in syria as i put it out since our time is very limited let me ask you a very pointed and specific and contemporary question because i'm sure you know that the russia together is turkey together with iran is now trying to push various political actors in syria towards a negotiating table and the main condition for that kind of diplomacy is that the borders will stay intact where does it leave the kurdish cause or at least the cause of for java what is dab asshole but these point of time so you know what the aim of which offer isn't to change the borders of the middle east and to. to get their own state what they want is they want to change the actual social reality of the situation this way to understand is is more like an ideological movement or even a religious movement that they want to change they don't want to rearrange the structure of the society the way the government is arranged to have to own a new government well those who want to do so want to change that in tone or wild of people's thoughts to spread a new book you have ideas in the society and not just in their own region of cuts but within the wider context of the middle east because the middle east is a very diverse place it's not just about putting more of these people to go for as individuals into multicultural bosket is that we need to as she will look to all of these cultural legacies to try to make a synthesis between i need to stop you right there because we have to take a very short break but we'll be back in just a few moments statement. when you all know it's coming through and spoke to if somebody would've been told me to come down to spend my life to plan committees and i'll talk to story corps who are the salt it was clear. every night over we were attacked by the arabs or we will attacking them and we will extremely shocked and saying that's not possible oh i'll make those moves in such scenes and then disorder myself from the standpoint of. the host with all the prisoner we've all dealt with over they all. believe much second close citizens in the on call. list like and i think in my head that there is no way to be able to live together without. the past. the. receiver to do it at gun point myself over here and the government paying the bill for you if it. was. thirty years down to six when you could you pick a windy day lindsey likely been reduced. welcome back to worlds apart but i mean it's going developer and anti isis fighters mr taki let's talk about another prominent part of your biography which is technology that you have coined. quite a name for yourself within the bitcoin circles you also earlier proposed using bitcoin as a fund raising tool to allow. the northern syria to rebuild itself and you suggested that it could be a nice way of circumventing various sanctions imposed by either europe or perhaps the united states is that still on the in mind. the proposition of big point is not simply as a tool to allow the free flow of capital but a. piece of technology or technique there are ways that we can construct new economic systems new ways to arrange people economically to be able to gain their own freedom if you believe that national currencies are a means of many people in or suppression why do you think that kind of would be better because. you know there there is very little oversight there's very little if any consumer protection when it comes to bitcoin not to mention that most people simply don't have enough computer literacy to operate it let alone to know all the risks associated with it. think of the money that we use in our lives with the money that all of us work. is printed by a small fund on surely. the majority of the world's currency on the economic transactions is responsible for the governance of the world is these come from washington from american central banks which is a country which is about which the underlying philosophy of that country is the blind accumulation of capital using the tools of military domination so to be able to break free if we need to look for solutions why is going to lucian better than the dollar that you despise so much because again it opens at least to me and i am not an expert but it seems that it offers also plenty of opportunities for many in the exploitation sure but. because it is not a final solution because it is a step for us to be able to go on that path towards our freedom because it is not just piece of technology is social system there are many different people participating in the ecosystem was so so important is the ideas are on the lying the development of that technology is something that we have to have an awareness of right now the situation we find ourselves in is a situation of crisis there is no way out right now but you mention that you specifically want to use it to fundraise for the syrian kurds and from what i understand it still requires a lot of infrastructure the use of bitcoin electricity internet connection of what have you and from what i understand those issues are major challenges in northern syria so when you have to build economy some sort samplers of the economy first before you can freely and widely use it know to use big point is relatively simple you just need even a smartphone but you still you know this is an electricity. for your smartphone then telecom coverage and. all the things like that syria they have internet everywhere. the majority of the population has cell phones. in the twenty first century like everybody house well i mean in some areas kurdish areas where i've been even electricity was a major challenge but many think maybe things have improved since then can i ask you something else because you mentioned before that many different people use bitcoin and i just came across the statistics by bloomberg recently suggesting that i mean one thousand people only forty percent of the bitcoin market if it's true it gives them i think it would give them a lot of leverage including in potentially coordinated schemes so. that could look like yet another power structure under construction is it not totally true we live in. a situation now with financial power elite a lot of wealth has been transferred to. which is. a change in the structure of power which is something that's healthy is something we need to be able to progress as a humanity to advance for what you're saying is that first the capital needs to shift from you know one area to another and then you can count on people's you know better qualities to you and i don't i don't believe there's a fundamental human nature the flow of capital to a new group of people is going to give us a trajectory in which money is going to reach a new utopia i'm saying is the break this country imposed on us now by the structure of paul wood which is solidify itself in the some of the financial capitals of new york and london but many of the people who trade in bitcoins they actually concentrated in those financial centers and i know that you previously. described it going as nothing less than a means of liberating humanity and interestingly as i was thinking about the development of other industries or other human endeavors usually they start with something like that you know a person looking for an important drug and only then you know when that truck is developed it gets capitalized in the profit making imperative take on don't you think that it's going to build to just yet another full of something like that sorry big. technology the original proposition of big coin is here is a new piece of technology the people to send capital any of a person on the planet outside of the control of central banks and governments is incredibly powerful value proposition for the first time now we have we regain our ability to be able to economically organize for the entire planet to achieve a global consensus with the domination of western states who are building this a process of tyranny even because of the history was driven by idealists who really hot value is the challenge now of big coin developers of big news the people inside big ecosystem is to have a vision of the future they want to move towards and work towards making that happen if they don't there is the danger the big coin would just remain suspended and dissipate as a project the reason why we have mobile phones and laptops and. personal computers is because there were a community of hackers in the fifty's in the sixty's who got jobs near computers trying to understand how this technology works to try and gain access to these tools of power to be able to create to be able to give this. technology of computers to the common people news it to advance humanity forward but what happened in hacker community is in the seventy's a lot of capital from very big companies started to flow into this. previously marginalize community and big news the first time in their life the money they sent to for themselves these companies and they came along one guy richard stallman and he said he said this is wrong. in the process of of all of this cup it's all i say shouldn't something important is being lost from the community and he's his proposal was the guy's let's build our own free or praying system and that was the birth of linux as a really important development in the history of computing that's now where big point find itself the why defeat technology movement we have to formulate a vision and as a community we have to understand the we're not just building these technologies as objects but we're trying to create a world we're trying to create a world and how we apply these towards the vision you mentioned activist and hacktivists and i know that you've spoken in favor of anonymous and there has been a very interesting case involving them recently because it was first reported that they declared war on donald trump and then it was reported that they decried dot very operation as a form of censorship i wonder where do you stand on what is censorship in this day and age and. should you allow the ideas that you most certainly did tast to be spread. so about anonymous that was movement attracted a lot of young people like occupy a lot of movements of the post two thousand era. for instance this last this last year there was anonymous march in london so i went to go and have a look what is it and this is one day in the year when fountains of people from all around england come to london to do a march from. the parliament to trafalgar square and i saw so many different people there with two different kind of flags. doing different things we did it is a long march and then you come to trafalgar square and thus everybody goes home as basically what anonymous has become is become a commodity but what about censorship how do you how would you define it considering that of course censorship also has a good aim of protecting the feeble minds of people who do not know better so for instance now in the u.k. elections in the u.k. television now do the major political parties soaking about the two most important issues facing the u.k. right now which is terrorism and immigration there was a pirate party on there and did two things the pirate party talks about was internet surveillance and governments and copyright reform is not the most important things facing humanity right now this is really big issues the the censorship is an important is an important topic it lies in the context of a more bigger global struggle the now that we are entering a new phase of humanity. our way of seeing the world of reducing the world down to really mechanistic. simplified view of reality that all of the complexities on the line are all the things that we discarded from our reality. now multiplying frightened and now coming back to penetrate this little lucian a bubble but which we've withdrawn into as the sound that moment we find ourselves in the movements like isis. just. a mirror or affliction of something deeper hopping within a society that when this come to impact people in the future the people there on the stand where these things coming from the most people going to say oh it's just a normal person i was just living my life why is this affecting me this is something is serious really serious moment they were in as a human as a global humanity is like the exactly like the fun with the use of rhyme while it's a very interesting conversation but unfortunately we have to leave it there our time is up and i strongly encourage our viewers to leave their comments in our social media pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here and will to part. credit is one of the basic instruments to drive an economy but it can also lead to tragedy i did it i took a line the whole gist i can be got and met that the debt style game and in the spiral not. many lives have been broken by excessive the banks got you into trouble and all the big bankers got big. government the banks but i just didn't think of the. last morning through the back. creditors people see no future bad face for how you know you become ill you do job your relationship breaks down you become a casualty is a life long trip or is there a way out of those actually trying to cover an old marker to ditch a bill for more shifts to the more. closer members knew when you don't. see the. what did they could put it. what they need most through only ten. minutes. left in the building said. no servant is that the. alex you speak french. is busy putting up thoughts. because special always they play a short tournament. i mean it's ask you how your lifestyle you know about it all it's never once saw me if you wife whatever somehow six times well it's a list of a story. i. would stop stories from our two international braces for a second week following donald trump's decision to recognize jerusalem as israel's capital clashes between palestinians and israeli police have called deaths of more injuries. plus to the arab world reacts to trump's move calling for east jerusalem to be recognized as the palestinian capital of turkey already planning to open its embassy to. other big news we just go on president putin kick started the withdrawal of russian troops from syria during a surprise visit after military troops declared defeated my country. and i think right now thousands of people join.