Quick overview on this weeks topic. As always we are joined by our resident copresenter Michelle Gildernew. Michelle is the current mp for fermana south toron. She has served in the northern arland assembly as a former minister for agriculture and Rural Development and chairperson of the Health Committee amongst other things. Michelle has been a shinfian activist since her teams and has been elected almost continuously since. 1998 and todays guest is Glenn Bradley. Glenn is a former british soldier who later became an officer in the Ulster Unionist Party participating in the talks that led to the good fredy agreement in 1998. Glenn continues to engage in various initiatives to advance peace, reconciliation and evolve political thinking on the island of ireland. Clim bradley, welcome to the show. Thank you. Klan, you grew up in the shankel road, not far from where were actually sitting right now. Could you tell us a bit about your childhood . First thing is ava said i grew up in the shagel road map me, i grew up in the woodviel road, which is the top end of the shankle. Um, i was born in 1967 into a left leaning, socialist leaning working class family, um, in a poverty stricken street, two up, two down, terraced house, tin bath on the wall, no running hot water, my inheritance of life was that i was born into a loyal arish. Family, what do i mean by loyal irish . I mean that we looked eastwards for sovereignty. We were the irish dimension along with welsh, english and scots that made up the british nation in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and that is the politic that i was born into a very heartly home, but where politics was daily discussed largely as a consequence of the poverty that surrounded is all, poverty reined in the area, obviously being born in 1967. It was also on the cusp of the civil uprising that was happening here in Northern Ireland, and while i had nothing to do with the previous 50 years of the orange state and what had happened, i certainly was born into that area of era of violence, and an actual fact until the seasfires of 1994, 1997, i knew only violence in my life, so i grew up with daily armed violence all around me on um everyday. Our of days were spent listening to bombs, listening to gun fire, arm patrols on the street, para aggression, provisional ira aggression against my community, uh loyalist paramilitary violence against my community, every single day on our streets, so what moted motivated you then glenn to join the british army, to grew up in a very political house and politics was discussed daily as well, we also um would have understood poverty, but equality. And opportunities and things like that were what we were talking about it was how we were treated compared to our neighbors a lot of the time. As far as i was concerned, i had grown up in a community that was under physical attack. By the ira, you know, day and daily, it was armed aggression against my community and we were being failed by the uuc, we were being feeled by the british army, and in 1972, um, h5, um, i was injured in an iran warning car bomb, and in that Small Community that i come from, we knew lots of people who were getting injured, we knew lots of people who were getting killed, and it really came the head for me on on the day that bobby sanns died when when when bobby died um during that may period you know i i was attending the Belfast Boys Model School and our school boss was returning and nationalists and republicans had formed a gauntlet uh at the arding round about and they they petrol bombed our school boss and there was lots of derogatory language being show that you know burn your hunness and so on and so forth and but for the bravery of the bus driver on the day who put his his foot to the the accelerator and actually mounted the the ardoin round about and got us to the relative safety of of woodville road you know the casualties would have been far hard but its the first day that that i remember seeing hitrid in me you know i get off that bus and looking back up towards the round about you know my thought was im going to kill you im going to kill you and i was 14 years of age and i it it was my i get to theres hundreds of thousands of other people would have joined the british army without this motivation, but my motivation as a 16year old was quite naive at the time, you know, i was kid who had grown up in a very closeted and and tatent community, who was sectarian in in my thinking who believed that the Northern Ireland conflict was holy and solely about my community. And and and getting ripped by ira violence, and i i felt that the only way that that violence could could be stopped was to be met by aller valens and then i naively joined the british army thinking, ill get the best trinum possible and go back to Northern Ireland and take the fight to the enemy, at 16, at 16, at 16 years of age, the british army is only is is one of three armies in the world that recruits children. Into its ranks and it is entirely legal for a 16yearolds even now today in 2023, im talking 1984, but in 20, you know, a child of age 16 can join the british army, so you you joined the pretty sharmy, mean what, what was the first regiment you joined, because understand you were in various regiments, yeah, yeah, initially in listed into the parachuit regiment, but i also served with uh the royal irish rangers, first batallion, the royal irish rangers and i also did special duty tours. During operation banner which would be specific to my deployments in in Northern Ireland. I did a i actually did five tours in Northern Ireland. So glenn, you said you joined the british army to get the best training, does that mean you had an urge to join a loyalist Paramilitary Group or did you is that what you were thinking . Um, as teenager, there is no doubt that i consider joining the First Battalion of the Ulster Volunteer force, the uvf, which would be loyalist. Military group, you know, i come from family that is is staped in the tradition of the uvf, and it would have been very easy, particularly with the area that i live in uh for me to join b company, but my my uncle, um, he was a local politician at the time, in the progressive Unionist Party, put the vabes out to make sure that if i approached anyone, which i tried to do, that i would be declined the. Offer to enlist into the uvf, and uh, so yes, enlisting the paramilitary, lord paramilitary did cross my mind, uh, but it wasnt uh, available option for me, because concerned relatives made sure that that course of action that would only lead to death or prison wasnt available to me, you know, that the army was the laser of two evils so to speak, and i was encouraged to join the british army, you joined. The british army, just cup forward and a little bit, you then when you retired from the army, you joined the austriist party, for me, the the murder of my my uncle dc Louis Robinson in september 1990, um, played heavily on me, you know, that that was within our tactical area of responsibility, the second battal, the royal strangers were were serving as arb, um, and and lee was adocted and area so there i was, you just want to tell a bit about that, my uncle was detective constable Louis Robinson of of the rc, um, he had been fishing uh, in county carry was coming uh back home crossing the border um when the ira posing his udr soldiers abducted him, they held him for three days torturing him before hooding them and executing them and that all happened within the taor of of the regiment that i was in the roll irish rangers at that time and i assisted in the search operation to try and located. Body, i wouldnt have said it was catalytic moment that made me get out of the army cuz i you know i i went to do a further four years but um there was it and then i i did a six month tour in bosnia in 1992 and i think the combination of both those i was moving i was evolving from believing that violence could satisfy things and i was moving into a reality for me where i believed that violence was futile and and i left the army uh because of that in 1994 and then so you were you joined the olster Unionist Party at that stage then you hopes for peace or what oh yeah yeah mean but by this stage had gone from being a naive kid who worshiped at the high altar of violence to someone who believed the dialogue engagement equitable equality were the only things that could resolve the political situation in Northern Ireland. So i landed back here in 1994 back to the woodfield the area that i came from and there was no change. There was no change from 1984 and 1984 on the poverty or anything that would nothing was being addressed. It was still the usual fly or trips, a union jack over a donkey and put it up for an election and look at election. And i says nah, that this cant continue. So. I initially again funny enough was going to join the progressive Unionist Party, but my uncle felt that because of my army service, i would never be trusted, and he said, youre better off going into the uup and you probably get further on politically than what you could, so i joined the oster Unionist Party, so my motivation at the good freddy agreement was to get a peace accord on which we could then build to create. Equitable equality and address all the imbalances that in my view had made Northern Ireland dawm workable up up to that point. So that was my motivation in being a neilst the unions party, so it was about for me, it was about ground truth, uh, community politic, engagement, and and and addressing the the the causes of conflict and the the the reasons for gross poverty in the area that i came from and you later, you later became member of veterans for peace, what motivated you to to to do that, for for me it was just Natural Evolution of the journey and the path that i was on, you know, i go back and i say, you know, i was this naive kid who worshiped at the high alter of violence and id gone through this transition to be in this piecenick who simply felt felt that violence was futile and could achieve nothing and veterans for peace for me was my natural home where i could openly discuss who i was, the journey i had been on and but also related to to to be in the army amongst people who understood my language and who and who could speak to me, so for me it was just Natural Evolution to joint veterans for peace, youre still tuned into the conversation, your weekly alternative pro. Of political events and Current Affairs around ireland. Im joined by our cohost Michelle Gildernew alongside our special guest Glenn Bradley who served in various residents of the british army and is now member of veterans for peace. Was there one particular event or one incident that sparked that desire to go from a combatant to somebody who promoted and worked towards peace . Not that i can remember. I cant recall a singular catalytic moment. Obviously the the murder of my uncle. And and everything around that and my my service in bosnia, it fed heavily um on me, but the theres not a singular event that i can remember that made me go from this rather naive kid that had worshiped at the the high alter of violence uh to to to be in a piece nick um theres theres just nothing that is singularly correct you know i did five tours here and and as you know you know serving and in firm is entirely different to serving in belfast and and and the duties of the soldier would have done at that time, but but what i did identify with them was the belligerance um of politicians. Of that era and it really really annoyed me because no one was addressing poverty, nobody was addressing the causes of conflict and what what what i mean by the causes of conflict is you know at that period of time 1986 or whatever it was, i think we had um at that stads there was probably about 16,00 republicans and 10,000 lawless had been um arrested charged through the process and were were in long cash. And you know something didnt happen in 1968 to suddenly make you know over 26,000 people wake up the next morning and go were valent and were going to do this, nobody was identifying the causes of conflict which in my opinion also relates to the causes of poverty because the they go handling love the galler and i just had this desire and urge that again coming back to what i said earlier about my child. And you know, i did not want them to andhurt the socioeconomic, political basket case that i had been born into, and i felt a real duty and responsibility to address the causes of conflict and the reason why Northern Ireland was in such poverty and not even today, that remains my motivation, the only difference today is im not talking about my grandchildren, because as you know michelle, there was things agreed in the good. Agreement things like the bill of rights and so on that we that have never ever been addressed because politicians, some politicians here dont want to. I agree with you and having been elected in 1998 into the first assembly, i can tell you now that your your worldview is very different from the vast majority of unionist politicians that i worked with, worked in committees, looked at tackling poverty, lot of some of the unionist. Politicians up there had no clue about poverty, how it existed, about um, how young people could end up homelessness, they just had such, they were tone deaf to the actual problems that were facing our society, i think a lot of that is to do with political unionism, and what political unionism has been doing for the last 100 years from the creation of this state . You know, as mcgrandy used to say, you know, up a shankle, you could bring a donkey traps a union jack over it and we get a lack. And thats what political unionism has been doing for hundred years, you know, back in 86, it was what, 70, 40 years ago, 60 years i was talking about, you know, nothing has changed, you know, people from outside the areas are parachuted into the areas and they get elected because of flag waving, because of things that are completely irrelevant to address in the causes of poverty, the causes of onder education within the unionist community, and an absolute disaster, and this ethous if you like carried you into business, just do you want to tell us a bit about that . Well, it wasnt, obviously i had to work, i wasnt, you know, when i joined the elster Unionist Party, it was a voluntary role, youre not paid to be a constituency chairman, youre not paid as the treasurer, um, it was about activism and it was about trying through the party to address things, so i i always worked and and coming from a. Military background as i did, hallage and supply chains were naturally where i felt at home, so um, i, i formed business, in partnership with guy, we were located in jamess Business Park in in finglas and we created a small cross border um hollage distribution company, and we went very quickly uh to making decent money. Glenn, youre youre a few years older than me, but um, you we basically want the same thing, we want a. Future for children and grandchildren thats different to our upbringing. I cant ever envisage that within a six county administration. How do you feel about how we move into the future in a way, the last 100 years, as youve pointed out, havent been good for anybody, society is broken here, i dont can it be fixed, but i dont see it ever been fixed within a six country settlement, but whats your views on that . My you know the good fredy agreement is our common denom. Michelle, its the common denominator of all the people and in this region, you know, and when the people ratified the good freddy agreement, it became our mechanism for all political discourse, within the good freddy agreement, there is the provisions for a what people call a border pool, a referendum that the people here of their own vocation can choose to stay in the United Kingdom. Or they can choose to go for something new, thats something new to me is personally more attractive than the current. Status quo, you know, and and and within me and my political journey, i think prebrexit, i was maybe happy to go along with things, but brexit, are versibly, irrevocably proved to me that this small place that we call home is of no consideration to westminster, because the st, because political unionism, in my opinion and keeping my and i come from that. Tribe has utterly failed to deliver to address anything for the last 100 years, the British Government has failed to address anything in the last 100 years and i just am at that stage of life where im going, whats the fear from trying something new . I dont fear change, my whole life has been about embracing change and the evolution, so for me, you know, the board. Was happening tomorrow, i would be voting to end the union with britain and i would be voting to create something i new here in ireland that is for all of the people of this island, all saben point would have ready is two Million Office that is equal, that delivers equitable equality, that addresses poverty, that addresses social housing needs, that addresses all the issues that for the last. Hundred years have not been addressed in this statement. I think on that note, i want to thank you for coming in. Uh, its great to have you today and its always good to see you. Thank you, thank you. This week we take a look at the history of kromland road jail. While this Victorian Era prison has now been transformed into a public museum, its history is one embedded in the foundations of the state. One with the hangman was always busy. Built in 1845, cromland road jail has bore witness to a fraud period of irish histo