Developments in Donald Trumps ongoing legal battles. In a newly unsealed brief in response to the supreme Courts President ial Immunity Ruling, special Counsel Jack Smith gives us the clearest view yet of his 2020 Election Interference Case against the former president. Smith asserts trump acted as a private candidate and not as president , when he tried to overturn the Election Results and resorted to crimes to stay in office. It also provides new evidence about Trumps Phone Usage and the conversations he had on the 6th Of January, as the riots were unfolding at the capitol. Quote, beginning at about 150. 30 p. M. , the defendant settled in the Dining Room off of the oval office. He spent the afternoon there reviewing twitter on his phone, while the Dining Room television played Fox News contemporaneous coverage of events at the capitol. Citing testimony, the filing says that when trump was informed his Vice President had to be rushed to a secure location after trump attacked pence in his speech for refusing to help him overturn the election, trump allegedly replied with two words, quote, So What. After the filing was unsealed, trump slammed the release as politically motivated. They should have never allowed the information to be to come before the public. But they did that because they want to hurt you with the election. It is pure Election Interference. Joining us now, nbc News Justice and Intelligence Correspondent ken dilanian, danny cevallos, criminal Defense Attorney and msnbc legal Analyst And Temidayo williams, what is new and most significant in this filing which is 165 pages big . Yeah, what is new here, jose, is a granular level of detail that comes from 165 page brief written almost like a novel, filled with quotes from Grand Jury testimony, fbi interviews, and notes that the public has never before seen. For example, smith says trumps private operatives as he put it sought to create chaos as the votes were being counted. In detroit, the document quotes a Trump Campaign Worker as encouraging violence, saying, quote, make them riot. And another Trump Staffer is quoted overhearing trump telling Family Members it doesnt matter if you won or lost the election, you still have to fight like hell. Some of the most fascinating new information involves the interaction between trump and his Vice President , Mike Pence based in part on five pages of pences contemporaneous notes that were not available to the January 6th congressional inquiry. The filing describes how pence tried to gradually talk trump into accepting the results of the election and how trump turned on pence when it was clear he was not going to stop the congressional certification. Trump was sitting in the White House, as you described it, watching the Capitol Riot on tv as aides rushed in to tell him pence was in danger. But trump said, as you said there, So What. The Bottom Line is that anyone who is interested in the subject knows the broad outlines of what happened here. This filing offers some powerful new details. Ken, do we know what is behind to make that decision, to unseal it yesterday and why specifically it was unsealed yesterday . Yes. It is important to point out the special counsel did not make this document public. The judge did. By unsealing it. It was sealed. Filed sealed. Now Donald Trump and allies and independent analysts have said smith could have or should have asked for a delay weeks ago, so that this would not be happening so soon before an election. But current and former doj officials i talked to say they really didnt have a choice here. And that nothing they have done here in any way violated the unofficial policy of not taking new discretionary Action Close to an election. Remember, these guys were ready to go to trial in this case in january and the Supreme Courts Immunity Ruling required a reappraisal and they instructed the judge to figure out what was private and what was official and the judge told the parties to brief on that. Once that process was set in motion, It Led to where we are today. If Jack Smith had asked the court to delay, one, it is not clear she would have agreed and, two, he would have been criticized by the other side as putting a thumb on the scale in that direction. So, what is your reaction to when you when you were able to study these 165 pages . I would say, first, it really follows the contours of our investigation on the January 6th committee. Im not shocked by anything here. And it does confirm the story that we told, which is that the former president knew that these lies he was telling about the election to the american people were all false, and he proceeded nonetheless. What i was a bit taken aback by in a good way was how Jack Smith has been able to use his tools as a federal prosecutor, tools that we didnt have. I previously was a federal prosecutor and the power of the grand Jury Subpoena is something the committee couldnt use. What he can do here is force people to sit with him in a way that we couldnt. One of those people here is former Vice PresidentMike Pence. And the detailed communications he had between Pence And Trump are going to be really powerful testimony at trial and they do what clearly Jack Smith is focused on, the mens rea, the state of mind, which is critical to proving guilt at trial and hes done that here. He shows again and again that trump knew he was lying and Mike Pence will be a critical witness if this ever goes to trial. And those five pages that ken was talking about, that the Vice President , then Vice President took contemporaneously as this event was unfolding and the Jack Smith mentioning that they were able to determine what the former president what then president was doing on his phone during those hours, Thats Kind of access to information that you all just simply couldnt have. That is correct. And we were both limited by our time pressures, but by our tools, and Jack Smith has done exactly what we expected the doj to do, which is to go further than we could. So, danny, when youre looking at this and especially from a Defense Perspective, those are a lot of tools that are very effective. And im really glad temidayo is here. This goes to what i was thinking as i read this, i didnt see a whole lot of new factual nuggets that blew me away, that were blockbuster. To me, everything that was new was kind of consistent with what we largely have known over the last several years. For example, Finding Out when Donald Trump is told that Mike Pence is in danger and he says something as callous as So What didnt surprise me. I would have expected Donald Trump to say something like that. So as im reading this, i think about the dual mission. The first mission for the government is establish that these are private acts and not official president ial conduct. Secondly, they laid out their entire Case And Cant tell you how rare that is, not just for a criminal Defense Attorney or a defendant, but the public to get a preview of the governments case, especially in a complex case like this. This is not a drugs and guns case. This is a very complicated case and the government, in 100 plus pages, has laid out essentially their entire case with what i would call less redactions than i expected. The people are redacted for the most part. We can divine who they are. For me, it was the legal argument i found compelling. Yes, the quotes and texts and messages, What Bannon says about pences lawyer, it is flashy, but to me, the legal argument, the way the special counsel lays out that the executive Branchs Duty is not to be involved in state and local elections, even citing abraham lincoln, going through history and explaining how this is not the role of the executive, this is the role of other branches, he had no business in this area. And if You Leaf through some of it, you look at the majority of the redactions, really the footnotes, right, where it is kind of to qualify who the individual is or not, but there are appendix citation. There are very little of the actual text. So, lets talk about just asking earlier, about the timing of this. Why do you think that the judge decided to release this now . And there is a difference between what the judge decided to do and what the doj could have suggested or not. Well, the delay here or the timing is all because of the former president. It is because of trump. He has sought and successfully to delay this case again and again and again. This case could have been resolved much, much earlier, but for the obstruction through legal processes of the former president. So i think to look at Judge Chutkan or the doj here is misguided for anyone to do. And we must remember, the public has a right of access to the court system. The public has a right to understand in any case what is happening, and especially in the case of this kind of national importance, so we should actually be happy that this has been unsealed because the public should have this information. The question is, it is when it is unsealed and there is No Doubt a fact that were less than 30 days away from an election. Well, as i think Judge Chutkan said at one of his first court appearances, the former president , he is Defendant Trump in front of her, not President Trump. The fact that in his private capacity he is seeking another office, that is his choice. First and foremost he must answer for the crimes hes being charged with. Danny, how are you seeing this from a Defense Perspective . What do you think are the main arguments to rebut these 165 pages . Sure. Thinking like a Defense Attorney, one of the things youll expect is number one theyll argue that, hey, all these terrible things that people are saying, make them riot, do it, cause trouble at a polling facility, those were other people. And Donald Trump is clever enough that he doesnt create a whole lot of a digital trail in terms of text messages, emails, all the things that traditionally, temidayo can tell you this, these are the things that sink defendants in the modern age and you wont find a whole lot of that other than his twitter activity. So, youre probably going to see a defense at least at trial that these were things other people said and did, they didnt do it at my direction. Thats for trial. At least in the immediate, because now the mission is show the court that these were official acts. So the argument with pence is clear, youre going to say, hey, even if it had to do with the campaign, im a president , talking to my Vice President , therefore the presumption lies. Because the presumption is that communications with pence will be immune. The government just thinks they can overcome those presumptions and they have done a really good job of making that argument. So thats going to be the Defenses Argument essentially here. It may have sounded it was about the campaign, but here is some element of president ial official conduct, were immune. Ken dilanian, danny cevallos, Temidayo Aganga williams, thank you. Well talk to mark short, thanks for being with us, he was Mike Pences Chief Of Staff during the 2020 election. Hell be with us in 90 seconds and well ask him if he can confirm any of the new revelations. 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Interactions which smith argues were done in a private capacity as Running Mates, not as official president ial conduct. Lets speak with someone who was with the former Vice President on the 6th Of January, his former Chief Of Staff, mark short. Thank you so much for being with us this morning. You were in the room for so many of these incidents, including in this Court Filing. These are some of the photos of you and Vice President pence from January 6th, after you were whisked out of the Senate Chamber. Does your memory align with how Jack Smith says things played out that day . I think that the filing from what i read is consistent with testimony that was offered and consistent with the way the facts played the events played out. I think it is also consistent with the way the Vice President told it in his own memoir in his book. You spoke to the Grand Jury. Were there other key moments during that period that didnt make it into this special counsels filing . Well, you know, i think that there is obviously a lot of focus on the day o