Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20241004 : comparemela.com

Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20241004

In Swing States. As a conservative, as someone who believes in and cares about the constitution, i have thought deeply about this. Because of the danger that Donald Trump poses, not only am i not voting for Donald Trump, but i will be voting for Kamala Harris. [ applause ] that was former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney of Wyoming One month ago, endorsing democratic nominee Kamala Harris for president. Today, cheney will appear with harris for the first time at a Campaign Event in battleground wisconsin. That comes following the release of a new report on Donald Trumps efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Well dig into why special Counsel Jack Smith says most of trumps actions On And around January 6th are not protected by the Supreme Courts immunity decision. Trump, meanwhile, made more comments about Migrants Yesterday, explaining hiS Plan to deport those in the u. S. With legal status. To deport legal migrants. Plus, a day after the Vice President ial debate, both Running Mates were back out on the Campaign Trail. Well show you what governor tim Walz And Senator Jd Vance had to say about that final debate most, when vance refused to say whether trump lost the 2020 election. Good morning. Welcome to Morning Joe. It is thursday, october 3rd. Happy new year to our jewish friends. Along with willie and me, we have the host of way too early, white House Bureau Chief at politico, jonathan lemire. U. S. Special correspondent for bbc news, Katty Kay. Cohost of msnbcs the weekend, former chair of the republican national committee, michael steele. And former u. S. Attorney and Msnbc Contributor, chuck r rosenberg. Willie, the first line of Jack Smiths 165page Filing, the defendant, Donald Trump, asserts he is immune from prosecution for his criminal scheme to overturn the 2020 president ial election because he claims it entailed official conduct. Not so. And he goes on to explain why. Yeah, the Special Counsel seeking to make the case and to pierce the Immunity Argument made by the Supreme Court over the summer. We are now getting an indepth look at Jack Smiths Election Interference Case against Donald Trump. A Judge Yesterday unsealed smiths filing in response to the Supreme Courts ruling on president ial immunity. In it, smith argues trump was not acting aS President of the united states when he sought to overturn his 2020 election loss. Though his multiple conspiracies began after Election Day in 2020, the defendant laid the groundwork for the crimes well before then. Smith goes on to write, that same day, in explicit acknowledgment he had no lawful way to prevail, he sidelined the existing Campaign Staff responsible for mounting his legal challenges, who were telling the defendant the truth that he did not want to hear, which he has last. The defendant turned to a private attorney willing to falsely claim Victory And Spread knowingly false claims of Election Fraud. Smith argues in the brief, trump knew his claims of outcome determinative fraud were false. Writing, following Election Day and throughout the charged conspiracies, the defendant, his coconspirators, and their agents spread lies that there had been fraud in the election, that he had actually won. Smith details conversations between Vice President Pence And Trump, in which pence told trump he had seen no evidence of fraud in the election. Pence, smith writes, gradually tried to convince the defendant to accept the lawful results of the election, even if it meant the defendant lost. Trumps speech, where he repeated lies in arizona, nevada, pennsylvania, wisconsin, which had been debunked. The defendant used the lies to motivate the large and angry crowd of his supporters to march to the capitol and disrupt the certification proceeding. The filing from Smith Details another conversation between Trump And Pence on January 1st. The former Vice President explained he did not believe he had the power under the constitution to decide which votes to accept. Trump then told pence, quote, Hundreds Of Thousands of people are going to hate your guts, and people are going to think youre stupid, and Berated Pence. Quote, youre too honest. Smith argues, even if the court determines these conversations were official, the government can rebut the presumption of immunity because the use of this evidence poses no risk to Executive Branch prerogatives. The content of the conversations at issue, the defendant and pences joint electoral fate and how to accept the Election Results, have no bearing on any function of the Executive Branch. And we fight. We fight like hell. If you dont fight like hell, youre not going to have a country anymore. Of course, that is Donald Trump back on January 6th, 2021. Chuck rosenberg, this is 165 pages, as mika said. Theres a lot to sift through. A lot of detail. It is clear that a lot of the testimony is coming directly from Mike Pence, among other people who were around Donald Trump. It seems to me, and ill let you walk us through and explain, the Core Argument here is Donald Trump was not acting aS President. He was acting as a president ial candidate, effectively, when talking to Mike Pence about these things. I think thats exactly right, willie. Supreme court said that certain official conduct is off limits, that any president , mr. Trump in this case, would be immune from prosecution for official acts. So the governments brief here, its styled as a motion for the judge to make determinations about immunity. But the thrust of the governments brief here, willie, is that mr. Trump was not acting in an official capacity. He was acting in a private capacity, as a candidate, not as a president , but as a candidate, trying to secure reelection. So all of those 165 pages have a similar theme. They lay out a series of acts, of conversations, between the president and private officials for the most part, explaining that the president was willfully blind to the facts that he had lost. That he was urging people to act in fraudulent and dishonest ways, and he is trying to retain office. All of this is intended to convince the District Court judge, the trial judge, Judge Chutkan, that these are all prosecutable acts. Theyre not immune. Remember, the Supreme Court had the easy job, willie. All they had to do waS Pronounce a rule. Judge chutkan has the really hard job. She has to implement the rule. The government is trying to give her a path, a Road Map to implement the rule in a way that they believe means that mr. Trump still may be prosecuted for all of these unofficial acts as a candidate. Interesting. Chuck, boy, this goes into the relationship with pence in a big way. The different efforts in different states to try to change the outcome. Also, trumps tweets, making it very clear, by the way, that it was him tweeting. He goes through tweets as a candidate, casting doubt on Election Integrity. Tweets making false claims of Election Fraud. Tweets and retweets attacking those speaking the truth about the election. Tweets exhorting individuals to travel to washington, d. C. , for the save america rally. Tweets involving Pences Role on January 6th. The defendants 2 24 p. M. Tweet on January 6th. I mean, it is very specific that these tweets were done by trump, but my question is, how can you separate his official capacities to his unofficial capacities, therefore not immune, if hes still theres still a transition that is under way. Does that make sense . It does make sense, mika, and it iS Precisely the right question. Again, very easy for this Supreme Court to proclaim. Very hard to implement. Its like my ninth grade Al Ge Bra teacher. She can say, you have to study harder and get grades up. Easy for her to say that, much harder for me to do it. The Supreme Court has said that official acts are out of bounds, immune. All right. Now, Judge Chutkan, you figure it out. You tell us which acts you think are prosecutable. The government is making its case that everything in its 165page Brief iS Prosecutable. Its all evidence that may be deduced to the trial, and it could be used by a jury if they see fit to convict mr. Trump of the fraud with which he is charged. But to your point, mika, some of this stuff, and i have No Doubt mr. Trumps attorneys will argue, that some of this stuff is official conduct. Particularly, right, conversations that mr. Trump had with his then Vice President. This is a difficult task for jung chutkan. I was not able to get my grades up in algebra. Easy for my teacher to say, hard for me to do it. This will be a difficult, long stretch of pretrial litigation. That was one of my questions. If you thought this was going to be a tough slog to push this through put judge. Secondly, was there anything in here that surprised you . Not really. I mean, this reads a little bit like a Trial Brief or a trial memorandum. Sometimes before a complex trial, prosecutors, and ive done this, will file a preef brief telling the District Court what to expect from witnesses, so there are no surprises. This is not styled as a Trial Brief. Its a motion for a judge to make immunity determinations, but it really lays out much more of the governments evidence. I dont know its all of it, but itS Probably most of it, at least in, you know, broad strokes. And theyre doing this because they have to adduce Trial Evidence that is not immune. They have to introduce a Trial Evidence that can be used to convict mr. Trump. Remember, mika, the government has already superseded their indictment. Theyve already struck from the original indictment passages that they believe are clearly immune. The government has arrived at a place where they think they have The Right Stuff and the right balance of stuff, stuff that is not immune from prosecution, to push this case forward. Now, does the judge agree . We shall see. Donald trump was asked about the unsealing of this brief yesterday, the redacted brief, in an interview Last Night. Heres what he said. This was a weaponization of government, and thats why it was released 30 days before the election. Theres nothing new in there, by the way. Nothing new. They rigged the election. I didnt rig the election. They rigged the election. Okay. Jonathan lemire, he said someone else rigged the election. We can sift through that later. If you look through the 165 pages, just some of the detail which, again, is not terribly surprising based on the Reporting Weve seen, based on that volume produced by the House Committee on January 6th and on the election of 2020, but there are some moments that Stand Out. As when an aide came up to Donald Trump on January 6th as He Sat Scrolling Twitter and watching Fox News and said, your Vice President , Mike Pences life is in danger. The Secret Service has rushed him. Hes not safe right now. Donald trump is alleged to have said, quote, so what . When approached by his daughter ivanka and her husband, jared kushner, he said, according to this brief, it doesnt matter if you won or lost. You still have to fight like hell. What stood out to you, john, as somebody who wrote an entire book about this day and all the events around it . Youre right, willie, no surprises in here, but vivid detail. You ticked through some of them. Trumps utter callousness and uncaring on January 6th, when there was violence. Violence to the point that put his own Vice President s life in danger. We have also in here an unnamed Campaign Aide from an earlier moment actually saying, make them riot, when there was a disturbance at another campaign office. This waS Part of the plan, to stir unrest, to fight, to intimidate, to try to overturn the will of the people. Katty, Donald Trump claims this is election interference. Two rebuttals to that. Lets remember james Comeys Letter to the investigation into hillary clinton, that was two weeks before the election. This is much further out. The reason this is coming now is Donald Trumps own legal Teams Delay tactics. Then the Supreme Courts decision on immunity, which Jack Smith is trying to circumvent. This doesnt qualify as an October Surprise, but it is a reminder to so many americans what trump did, what the years were like, what another Trump Presidency could be like. Do you think it is going to matter in this election . I think youre right. We have a lot of October Surprises. Were only into day three or four of october, and there are a ton out there. Most of them around the world. I dont think this counts as one. So far, every time that Donald Trump has had some kind of a legal setback and what chuck was saying earlier, this is a hard slog for Jack Smith, to define whether it was his role as a Candidate Or Role as a president , given he was both at the same time. How do you distinguish between the two . Every time he had this in the past, he used it to raise more money. On the trump side, they feel this doesnt set them back necessarily. It is interesting that this kind of Sheds Light on Jd Vances last few moments of the debate, when you hear what Donald Trump was saying Last Night, about i didnt rig the election. They rigged the election. Again, saying the election was stolen because it was a fake outcome, according to Donald Trump. That is wh

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