That fits in this new immunity we invented. We will ask you have a murderers row of legal analyst's. What a night. And when we are finished with that, cassidy hutchinson is going to join us. Unbelievable. She is part of what got this story moving. I envy you. That is an awesome lineup. Have a great show. Thank you. The vice president of the united states was taking notes. Donald trump always hated seeing people take notes in the white house when he was speaking, but taking notes was the least of donald trump's problems with mike pence during a meeting in which the president of the united states was trying to get the vice president of the united states to join what jack smith calls a criminal conspiracy and commit a crime against the united states of america. A crime that special prosecutor jack smith in a 165 page motion today calls a conspiracy against the rights of millions of americans to vote and have their votes counted. It was january 4, 2021. The discussion was one of several described today in which donald trump tried to get mike pence to throughout the electoral college results. The votes cast by every voter in america. This is about every vote cast. Throwing out the results of seven states with me not just that the votes in those states didn't matter, but that no votes in any states matter in deciding who the next president would be. It meant that your vote would not matter. No matter where you cast your vote. It was a meeting about whether mike pence had the constitutional authority to just throw out electoral college votes on january 6 when they are officially accepted by congress. It was a legal discussion, but no one from the white house counsel office was present. Not invited by donald trump. The lawyer arguing for donald trump in that meeting was the now indicted john eastman, who is facing criminal charges in georgia and arizona for his alleged crimes of election interference in those states. In jack smith's filing today, john eastman is referred to as coconspirator 2 and donald trump is referred to as the defendant. During the meeting the defendant asked coconspirator 2 to explain his plan to pence. He presented two options, pence could unilaterally decide objections to electors or, alternatively in the plan that coconspirator 2 devised the prior day, pence could send the electors to the targeted state legislatures to determine which votes should be counted. In the defendant's presence, co conspirator 2 admitted that the electoral count add act forbade what he proposed and no one had tested coconspirator 2's new plan to send electors back to the states. Nonetheless the defendant repeatedly expressed a preference that state legislatures, to have state legislatures do the review. Pence unilaterally reject valid electors states. Throughout the meeting the defendant repeated his knowingly false fraud claims as a purported basis for pence to act illegally. Pence is five pages of notes from the meeting reflect that. The defendant said when there is fraud, the rules get changed. Bottom line, when every state by hundreds of thousands of votes. This whole thing is up to mike pence. It has to do with you, you can be bold and do whatever you want to do. The meeting concluded with mike pence firm and clear, telling the defendant i'm not seeing this argument working. Nonetheless the defendant requested that his staff meet with coconspirator 2 again to discuss further and pence agreed. The next day, january 5, there was a rerun of the same discussion. During the meeting the defendant once again told pence, i think you have the power to decertify and when pence was unmoved the defendant threatens to criticize him publicly. I'm going to have to say you did a great disservice. That provoked pence's staff to alert the secret service detail that donald trump was going to publicly attack mike pence. Donald trump followed that meeting with a couple of phone calls to mike pence, saying you have got to be tough tomorrow. Donald trump tried to put public pressure on mike pence by tweeting lies, like all mike pence has to do is send them back to the states and we win. Do it, mike, this is a time for extreme courage. Donald trump's last attempt to personally convince mike pence to create a crime was on january 6. At 11:15 a. M. , shortly before traveling to the ellipse to speak to his supporters, the defendant called mike pence and made one last attempt to induce him to act unlawfully in the upcoming session. When he again refused and told the defendant that he intended to make a statement to congress before the preceding confirming that he lacked the authority to do what the defendant wanted, the defendant was incensed. He decided to reinsert into his campaign speech at the ellipse, remarks targeting pence for his refusal to misuse his role in the certification and the defendant set into motion the last plan in furtherance of his conspiracies. If pence would not do as he asked, the defendant needed to find another way to prevent the certification. When the defendant took the stage at the ellipse rally to speak to the supporters who gathered at his urging, he knew that pence had refused once and for all to use the fraudulent elector certificates. The defendant also knew that he had only one last hope to prevent biden's certification as president. The large and angry crowd standing in front of him. So for more than an hour the defendant delivered a speech designed to inflame his supporters and motivate them to march to the capital. The rest is history and as described by jack smith, a crime against the united states of america like no another in our history. Last night the united states of america learned beyond a reasonable doubt just how eager donald trump's next vice president would be to commit the crime mike pence repeatedly refused to commit. Look, when mike pence made that decision to certify that election, that is why mike pence is not on the stage. Senator vance, you have said you would not have certify the last presidential election and would have asked the states to submit alternative electors. That has been called unconstitutional and illegal. Would you again seek to challenge this year's election results even if every governor certifies the results? i will give you two minutes. First of all i think that we are focused on the future. He is still saying he did not lose the election. I would ask, did he lose the 2020 election? tim, i am focused on the future. That is a damning nonanswer. Leading off her discussion is andrew weissmann, former chief of the criminal division of the eastern district of new york and coauthor of the best selling book, the trump indictments. Also with us, timothy heaphy, former u. S. Attorney who served as lead investigator for the january 6 committee. Thank you both very much for joining us tonight. We all have our 165 pages here. Andrew, i simply open it to you. Guide us through what jack smith filed today. What you see is the highlights. It is really hard to do highlights, because this is bombshell after bombshell after bombshell. I actually literally highlighted every page. It is just all yellow. Exactly. It is the kind of thing that as you read it, you and i are old enough to remember watergate. This is watergate over and over again. With no disrespect at all to the january 6 committee that did an incredible job. What they couldn't get, given that they have far fewer tools than criminal prosecutors, as tim knows very well, is so much direct evidence where it is conversations with donald trump, over and over again. In addition to what you just went through, just so many people telling him there was no fraud that made any difference here. Mike pence is telling him that, his campaign is telling that. Lawyers are telling that over and over again. It is useful to remember the reason this is public is because judge chutkan denied donald trump's motion that he was making opposing this ever being anything that we could see. He continued to make motions saying no one should ever see this. It was rejected in a written decision by the judge today and she then released to this, so that is why we have it, over his opposition and now that we can see it we know why it is that he did not want anyone to see this. The same way that richard nixon didn't want anyone to see those tapes. Tim heaphy you tried to get mike pence's testimony at the january 6 committee. He refused to testify, unlike our next guest tonight coming up, cassidy hutchinson. As you read the vice president's testimony here as it is relayed by jack smith and it is not all of it, it is just the amount that he thought he needed to lay in the essence of the crimes here. The vice president on the witness stand would certainly be saying a lot more than what we see here, but what was it like for you to read the vice president story that you were trying to get and could not get at the january 6 committee? it is entirely consistent with the story that we told, but with greater clarity and greater detail. As andrew said, we had a lot of ceilings we would bump into where witnesses would say i'm not going to come, because i have an executive privilege or i'm going to come, but i'm going to stop short of testifying to you, members of congress, my direct communications with the president. The special counsel has availed himself wisely of the grand jury proceedings where he can go right upstairs to the chief judge and adjudicate whether or not a privilege claim is or is not valid and he's gotten mike pence to come and not just to come, but to testify about direct communications with the president. People like eric herschmann. This brief is filled with evidence about what those lawyers and others directly conveyed to their boss, the former president. Right? we had a lot of circumstantial evidence of what the president knew. Some direct, but a lot of circumstantial. Jack smith has done a good job filling in those gaps and it reads like a much more vibrant and detailed story, but essentially consistent with the broad scheme, intentional scheme that the select committee had. Andrew, what i was struck by was how active the defendant is in this story. As it has unfolded before, donald trump is in it, but it was not clear to me that he was picking up the phone himself and calling this person in arizona. We all know about the famous call in georgia with the secretary of state, but there were a lot more calls. There were a lot more deliberate actions by the defendant to advance the conspiracy. Absolutely and he is the principal player and in many ways the january 6 committee report, because they have this gap, was a little bit like hamlet without hamlet. And here he is not a hamlet like figure. He is very active. He is sitting there watching what he thinks is his last gasp of his administration and he is doing everything he can. In spite of the fact that he has been told over and over again that you do not have the facts and you do not have the law. Both of those are against him and he is still doing something. It is such an incredible read in terms of criminality from the heart of the white house, in the oval office. Over and over again. And on the big legal issue, which lawrence tribe is certainly going to be able to address, it shows that this was being done as a candidate. In terms of the issue that the supreme court said, which is that presidents are immune when acting as president. This picture paints over and over again that this is something he was doing and i think it is totally right to connect this to what we saw just yesterday, where you have two people running for vice president where the same denial is wrong on the facts, wrong on the law, is still to this day being repeated to the american public. Tam, there is a moment in the trumppence dialogue with quotation marks. All of these lines come from mike pence. There is a moment when donald trump is trying to insist that he join this conspiracy to use the power he does not have as vice president and he says i don't have that power. He says i don't have that power. But donald trump says to him, you are too honest. You are too honest. Now the structure of that, what that means in english is that you are telling the truth, that is what honest means. You are saying that you don't have this power, but you are being too honest in admitting you don't have this power, because that is what is preventing you from joining our criminal conspiracy. So when a prosecutor is looking for what does this defendant think and let's assume this defendant is not going to get on the witness stand, you have a witness here, mike pence, telling you exactly what he thinks. He thinks, honestly, you have absolutely no right to do what i am telling you to do. Right. The brief is written directly to address the central thing that jack smith has to prove, which is intent to disrupt the joint session. Purposeful conduct by the defendant, the former president, intending to disrupt the joint session and prevent the transfer of power, so his words directly to mike pence are the best evidence of his intent and you are right when he says you are being too honest, that is an implicit admission that what he is asking for is dishonest. Right? that is crucial evidence of intent. The other thing that is really interesting to me in the dialogues in this pleading is that he sort of predicts what he is going to do when he refuses his persuasion and that is launch the mob. He says i'm going to have to say, mike, that you disappointed me. I have to out you to the masses. He is predicting that his ultimate leverages the angry mob. That is what prompts marc short to call the secret service. Trump is essentially telling mike pence what is going to do. I'm going to get everyone mad at you tomorrow because you are too honest. Evidence of his intent to disrupt the joint session and prevent the transfer of power. Andrew, one way i was reading this filing today was literally looking for cassidy hutchinson who's going to join later tonight. I could not find her anywhere in there. Tim looked and could not see her there. It seems that one of the reasons for that is this is jack smith trying to thread this needle that the supreme court set up for him, which is nothing that is an official act, so jack smith seems to be trying to eliminate anyone from the witness list who was a white house employee as opposed to a campaign employee and there is one person in here who is both, a white house lawyer, but also volunteering for the campaign, which you can do in white house jobs, so they are using him as a campaign advisor, which is why we are going to be able to hear his testimony according to this theory, but that is how carefully this needle has to be threaded. What the supreme court did is basically they tried to really curtail what jack smith could do and to eliminate all of the official act evidence and official act witnesses and even with that, even with the supreme court trying to take a sledgehammer to this case, in the way that they also interfered with the manhattan case, dealing with the same issue. Even with that when you read this brief, you realize how much proof there is. Even within the truncated view, just a followup on one thing that tim said with respect to the vice president. When he telegraphs what he is going to do and when that happens and someone goes in and tells the president what is happening with the vice president and people are threatening to hang him, his reaction is so what? which is this sort of cavalier attitude beforehand and cavalier attitude when it is actually happening. As you know from cassidy hutchinson, that is when she was like, no more. Andrew weissmann, tim heaphy, thank you very much for leading off our discussion tonight. Now to the question of whether mike pence will ever actually get into a courtroom as a witness in this case. Will the supreme court allow that? that question goes to our next guest, harvard constitutional law professor laurence tribe. That is next. Etsy. Dangerous ladders. Gutter muck. Yuck. No wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. Good thing there's leaffilter. Our patented filter technology keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. Guaranteed. Call 833 leaffilter to get started. And get the permanent gutter solution that ends clogs for good. They took the time to answer all of our questions. They really put us at ease. End clogged gutters for good. Call 833. Leaf. Filter, or visit leaffilter. Com today. My name is brayden. I was five years old when i came to st. Jude. I'll try and shorten down the story. So i've been having these headaches that wouldn't go away. 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Jude or its donors, we would have been in a bad place. These kids, they've done nothing wrong in the world. Finding a cure for childhood cancer, it means everything. Help st. Jude give kids with cancer a chance. [audio logo] here is what special counsel jack smith's 165 page brief actually asks the judge to do in this case. The request appears on the second to last page that says the court should determine that the conduct described is not subject to presidential immunity. The court should specify, one, that the government has rebutted the presumption of immunity attached to the defendant's official communications with the vice president. Two, that the remaining conduct described was not official and in the alternative, that the government has rebutted any presumptive immunity for any of the remaining conduct that the court finds to be official. And here is the line that we really need professor laurence tribe to translate for us. The government requests alternative rulings regarding rebuttal for all conduct the court finds to be unofficial to buttress the courts record and ensure thorough and efficient appellant review and minimize the risk of successive rounds of appeal. If you had any trouble following that last line, our constitutional explainer in chief is here to help you. Joining our discussion i was professor laurence tribe who has taught constitutional law at harvard law school for five decades. Thank you very much for joining us, professor tribe. Start wherever you want. Talk about how jack smith is attempting to obey what the supreme court has laid down for him as the limits of what he can charge a former president. Thanks for having me, lawrence. That line is perhaps the most confusing, so i won't begin with it. I will turn to it in a moment. I want to begin by taking a step back and saying that what jack smith did really makes one remember the wisdom of the adage, be careful what you ask for, you might get it. The supreme court, instead of addressing the damning facts that it looks like this case involves, kept saying in the oral argument, we don't care about the specific facts, we are writing for the ages and they wrote kind of a dissertation for the ages with lots of stuff that turns out to be completely irrelevant. That you could take out and jack smith did. The only things that involve even arguably an exercise of core presidential functions. Interactions with his own justice department. Left in only those things that the court itself and especially justice barrett in her concurring opinion made clear were not part of the official role of the president, but were part of his actions as a candidate. As an office seeker rather than an officeholder. That is what was left in and the only gray area is the interactions with the vice president, because the vice president wears two hats. His hat in the executive branch is one in which he interacts with the president as the president's delegate. Whether it is to a funeral or perhaps in the exercise of one of the special functions of the vice president in helping the president, for example, during surgery. Taking over the role of the president temporarily on the 25th amendment. His other hat is as president of the senate and if you read the courts opinion it has no alternative but to admit that in that role there is no official function that the president is playing and the president tells pence in his role as the person who, as president of the senate, ceremonially opens the ballots, so they can be counted by congress. In that role there is no executive function at all. Now the sentence that you pointed to at the beginning basically says to jack smith, that is, jack smith is basically saying to judge chutkan, don't plead me down just one avenue so that if that turns out to be the wrong one we will have to go back again. Give me an alternative set of rulings. Affirm my view that the president as a candidate has no immunity under the courts opinion. But if part of what the president is doing is not in his role as candidate, then please agree with my elaborate argument that any presumption of immunity is overcome. Take, for example, the 70 or so threats that trump makes to pence, basically saying you better do this, whether it is legal or not. So what. It does not matter or i will basically sick them on you. Those threats to pence, even if you don't know which hat he is wearing, cannot be part of the president's official function. For an outgoing president who, as the evidence compellingly shows, knows he has lost and says it doesn't matter whether i have lost, we have to fight anyway, even if i have lost. For that president to say i have an official role in the selection of my successor. I am not just a citizen casting a vote. I can basically pressure my vice president into trashing all of the votes that have been cast, saying they are irrelevant because i really ought to stay in office. There is no world in which that is part of the president's official function, so i feel kind of sorry for justice kavanaugh and corsets. And the chief justice. When they actually see what their demand to see the goods has turned up, they are going to feel rather stupid or they should because it turns out that most of what they said in that dissertation about the possible immunity of the president and the way he uses the veto power where the pardon power, how he really has to have a vigorous ability to use his core powers, none of that has anything to do with this case. They could have decided all of this stuff before the election. Instead, they did succeed in making sure that the trial that i believe is going to take place, unless he wins. That the trial that is going to take place will ultimately hold him accountable. So all of our worries about timing. You know, it better happen soon or it won't happen until after the election. We were right to worry. The court had its way. It cleared the path for the president and if as a result of that he wins, with or without all kinds of legal machinations where this court might help him again. If that happens the case goes away. He simply pardons himself or picks a lackey attorney general who dismisses the charges, but if it is kamala harris and not donald trump who takes the oval office next january 20, then you can take it to the bank, this case will go to trial. Pence will be called. He will elaborate in a way that is subject to crossexamination, what we now know he is likely to testify and we are off to the races to hold the president accountable, like any other citizen. That is a courtroom i will want to be in. Professor laurence tribe, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. When we come back, the star witness of the january 6 select committee hearings, former trump white house aide cassidy hutchinson, will join us next. And less itch with dupixent, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, that helps heal your skin from within. Serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. 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We wouldn't know what to do. We couldn't afford for our little girl to survive. And st. Jude gives us that. [music playing] (♪♪) they need their lawn back fast, and you need scotts turf builder rapid grass. It grows grass 2 times faster than just seed alone. Giving you a stronger lawn. Smell that freedom, eh? download the my lawn app today for lawn care tips and customized plans. Feed your lawn. Feed it. Today the harriswalz campaign released this ad. It is really rich for democratic leaders to say that donald trump is a unique threat to democracy when he police fully day i would ask, did he lose the 2020 election? tim, i am focused on the future. That is a damning nonanswer. America, i think you've got a really clear choice of who will honor that democracy and who will honor donald trump. Who is what here is what tim walz said about that today. I think some of you saw this. When you are a governor or congressman and trying to solve problems, you want a straight answer on something. The moment that stands out as i asked the simplest of all questions that every single american should be able to answer. I asked if donald trump lost the 2020 election. He refused to answer. Now look, there is a reason mike pence was not on that stage with me and let me just say this. Let me just say this. I served with mike pence in congress. We disagreed on most issues, but in congress and as vice president i never criticized mike pence's ethics and commitment to this country and he made the decision for the constitution. Mike pence did his duty. He honored his oath and he chose the constitution over donald trump. Understand in that 88th minute last night with that damning nonanswer, senator vance made it clear he will always make a different choice then mike pence made. As i said then and i will say now, that should be absolutely disqualifying if you are asking to be vice president of the united states. Today, we finally learned for the first time some of what mike pence would have said if he agreed to do what our next guest did and testified to the january 6 committee. Cassidy hutchinson was the star witness of the january 6 committee, but she would not have been the star witness if mike pence had the courage to do what she did and tell america the truth on camera when the country needed to hear it. Mike pence was 63 years old when 26yearold cassidy hutchinson raised her right hand on national television and swore to tell the truth to the committee. 63yearold mark meadows, now a criminal defendant in georgia, refused to give the american people an accounting of what he did in the white house leading up to and on january 6, to the january 6 committee. We now know thanks to jack smith's filing today that when rudy giuliani was lying about dead voters in georgia, mark meadows was texting eric herschmann, saying he knows it's a lie. Joining our discussion is cassidy hutchinson, former special assistant to former president donald trump and his chief of staff, mark meadows. She is the author of the book, enough, which is now out in paperback. Cassidy, this book is so powerfully relevant today when we are going back through jack smith's filing, to read what we were also learning in this book about what was happening in the white house that they on january 6. What is it like for you today when more americans are getting more accurate information about what happened? you know, lawrence, it is a day that on one hand brings me a lot of profound sadness, because it is unfortunate that we are here in this place where you have to be having this conversation, where trump has not conceded and continues to declare that he won the 2020 election when he clearly did not and knew as much at the time. But it also gives me a lot of hope for the future and for our justice system that, number one, that jack smith was able to file this before the election, so the american people have a much bigger picture of the truth headed into the election and also he has been able to collect a lot of evidence about donald trump and his actions leading up to january 6. And how he is complicit in the attack on our democracy that day. So it may be that the supreme court immunity decision has left white house staffers like you, possibly out of this case as witnesses for jack smith, since jack smith seems to want to concentrate on people who worked in the campaigns. That makes it clearly not involving official duties in the white house. What is it like for you to now see what the vice president would have said if he had done what you did and testified to the january 6 committee? i am really grateful to mike pence for what he did do on january 6. I personally cannot imagine the pressure he was under and his family at the capital that day. I have another perspective of the dangers donald trump can impose on people. Donald trump rules through fear and does it to try to silence and intimidate people from speaking out. In my view that was an obligation that he owed not only the country, but he owed himself as a moral obligation to come forward and tell the truth. He was the one subjected to the attacks for doing the right thing on behalf of donald trump that day. I have not had a chance to read through the entire filing. I look forward to being able to do so with a somber point of view, but i think overall, you know, i hope that in the coming weeks mike pence does find a little bit more courage to speak out war against donald trump. Not only because his life was almost taken by donald trump, but because mike pence knows firsthand how dangerous the man is and how dangerous a second trump term would be. What has your life been like since you stood up in this moment that was memorialized on the cover of your book and was seen everywhere around the country? now that you have been out of the spotlight for a while, is there any normality returning to your life? there is and there isn't. Do you feel threatened? at times i guess i do. That is a difficult question for me to answer candidly, because when i do feel those threats or moments of nervousness, i try to ground myself and remember how many others have faced threats like that and i recognize that i am in a position where i have really strong support around me where i don't necessarily have to feel as threatened as i might in other situations, but it is a very vulnerable position to put yourself in. What i will say about the period after, obviously i testified and part of that came out last year. I went on a nationwide book tour, so i have had about six months to decompress and try to retain as much as i could and collect my thoughts on how i wanted to move forward and what i found from this experience is not only did this ground me more firmly in my conservative principles, which candidly i was worried at one point that i was going to lose. I went through sort of questioning what i believed in because i worked for donald trump. I really believed in him. I believed that he was fighting for the american people. People like my family, working class americans and i bought that shtick, but in this period i've seen very clearly how deeply he manipulates people. How he has been able to use his power to seduce people into believing him that he is the solution to their problems and it is only him. So for people like me that really did believe in him, my loyalty to him felt like a small price to pay in exchange for him actually helping the country heal. I see very clearly now that that is predatory behavior, in my view. He is able to target people and manipulate them into following in lockstep next to him and not just the average american voter. It is not their fault, but you look at congress, you know, the entire house republican conference is entirely composed of people who are his foot soldiers. So as important as it is to keep him out of the oval office in this election cycle, we really need to focus on the house and senate to make sure that this period is behind us and we can build a better republican party. We are going to squeeze in a commercial break. I would like to ask you what decisions you are going to make as a voter in this election. We will be right back with cassidy hutchinson. Cassidy hutchinson. Ng we can see and hold. Etsy. [uplifting music] arearn: saint jude they gave it 110% every time. And for kenadie to get treatment here without having to pay anything was amazing. 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When you first came out with this book discussing your spirit, you are under a lot of pressure, not by me but other interviewers, to say okay, fine, but who are you going to vote for? i didn't get into that because i thought there was so much in your book that we should be discussing, the evidence in the book and your experience in what you went through. I thought that was more important. Also sensed that that was not something you were really ready to talk about. November is coming very quickly. We've heard liz cheney go out there and go all the way from opposition to donald trump to now, actively saying yes, she believes the right to vote is to vote for kamala harris. Where is your thinking on how you're going to vote? i've known for quite a long time, number 1 that i would never in my life vote for donald trump again. That, you have made clear. I've also known for a long time whether the nominee was at one point joe biden or kamala harris, that i would cast my vote for either candidate, now kamala harris and tim walz. In my personal view, understand the way that people, the way they decide who to vote for is personal, but i would never tell somebody how to vote but in my experience, number 1, from being up close to donald trump, seeing his character, knowing who he is, believing him when he tells us who he is and who he chose as his vice presidential running mate, jd vance, whose a whole separate conversation, it's just a despicable portrayal of the republican party. I am really, really proud as a conservative to have the opportunity to vote for kamala harris and tim walz in this election. Policy is important. It's very important to me, and there may be a few issues that kamala harris and i would see i tie on, i hope that we would be able to come to some consensus on a lot more issues but in saying that, the character of our leaders really matters, too. We need to be able to elect people that we can trust to uphold the rule of law, people that we want our children to look up to, and emulate, kamala harris is from a workingclass background, tim walz a from a workingclass background, those are the people that donald trump claimed to represent but actually exploited and manipulated their support. I say to republicans who may be on the fence, i understand how frightening it can be to potentially break with your party, i also understand there are concerns and very valid concerns about inflation, but donald trump and jd vance cannot be trusted with the constitution and the can't be trusted to uphold the rule of law and they can't be trusted to enact responsible policy. That in and of itself is disqualifying amongst many other things, some of them being that donald trump is under federal and state indictments, so when it comes down to the decision for me to vote for kamala harris, i look forward to casting my ballot for her and i think it's also really important to say for me, at least that i will also be voting democrats and the house and the senate, too. Because i think it's so important that we get past this period of donald trump for america to begin healing and once we are past that period and hopefully we can open up responsible policy debates in the future, but right now we need to focus on defeating donald trump. What do you think jd vance hasn't yet learned about his running mate, and what it's like trying to work with his running mate. I try not to climb inside the minds of people who seem like they have frightening thoughts and jd vance is one of those individuals. I'm split on if he knows exactly who donald trump is and he is fine with who he is, or he thinks that donald trump will somehow become extremely loyal to him, what i would say to jd vance number 1, look what happened to mike pence on january 6th, he almost had to give his life for donald trump. And donald trump metaphorically has a path of carnage behind him, of people who were loyal to him, who worked for him sometimes for decades, who he just exploited their resources and exploited their loyalty because it helped him achieve his ends but once he was done with them, he discarded them and they became absolutely nothing to him. I don't think jd vance is going to have a much better fate than all of the other individuals. So i think that he should go into this very cautiously. Cassie has a jensen hutchinson, this is really one of the most important inside the white house books i've ever read. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank you for sharing your views on this election and please come back. Thank you for having me, lawrence. Thank you. We will be right ck. We will bet it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be back. Liberty, liberty life, diabetes, there's no slowing down. Each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. That's why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. Uniquely designed with carbsteady. Glucerna. Bring on the day. Always dry scoop before you run. Listen to me, the hot dog diet got me shredded. It's time we listen to science. One a day is formulated with key nutrients to support whole body health. One a day. Science that matters. It's our son, he is always up in our business. It's the verizon 5g home internet i got us. Oh. . . He used to be a competitive gamer but with the higher lag, he can't keep up with his squad. So now we're his “squad”. What are kevin's plans for the fall? he's going to college. Out of state, yeah. Yeah in the fall. Change of plans, i've decided to stay local. Oh excellent! oh that's great! why would i ever leave this? aw! we will do anything to get him gaming again. You and kevin need to fix this internet situation. Heard my name! i swear to god, kevin! we told you to wait in the car. Everyone in my old squad has xfinity. Less lag, better gaming! i'm gonna need to charge you for three people. Cassidy hutchinson gets the last word and the word is enough. The 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts right now. Tonight, new details on the alleged scheme at the heart of donald trump'