Hi, everyone. Dont you love that music. It is 4 00 in New York. The prosecutor versus the felon, the want to be autocrat versus the democrat. A candidate weighed down by incumbency in the eyes of the voters, a candidate who will be the oldest president in our history should he prevail. Versus the candidate of change from a much younger generation. Every contrast that defined the 2024 president ial election could very well be distilled in to 90 minutes on one of the biggest stages of this Campaign Season so far. With the mics muted and no audience with only the moderator as loued to ask the questions and two minutes to answer and two minutes for rebuttal, Vice PresidentKamala Harris will be up against a candidate who at this point is defined by his lies. As we reported before, he told more than 30,000 lies over the course of his presidency. Countless more since then. A candidate who has no problem spewing disinformation no matter the consequences, as long as it serves had im. Here is how Vice President harris herself put it. There is no floor for him in terms of how low he will go and we should be prepared for that. We should be prepared for the fact that he is not burdened by telling The Truth. And The Truth for trump is ugly. As Nbc News puts it, quote, amounting an attack against trump, harris could pick and choose from a golden Coral Scale Buffet of material. There was trumps role in the January 6 riot at the capitol. There is his criminal conviction in manhattan this year for falsifying business records, or his 2022 contention that the Constitution Provisions could be terminated because of what claimed was widespread Voter Fraud in his reelection bid. Trump would later write a post denying that he wanted to do with away with the constitution. And that short list is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the expresident s record in public life and any attempt by the Vice President to bring up the facts could be met by another dynamic that has emerged in this campaign. Ever since Kamala Harris became the democratic nominee and that is deeply personal and sexist and racist attacks against him from Donald Trump. And the New York times reports that Team Trump worries that he, quote, wouldnt be able to contain his animosity toward mrs. Harris. Can you blame them for worrying . This is what happened the last time he debated a woman. My social Security Payroll Contribution will go up as well donalds assuming he Cant Figure out how to get out tv. But what we want to do. Such a nasty woman. Lets stop here though and add the final dimension. Think about that quote i read from a Trump Aide speaking to the New York times. That trump, quote, wont be able to contain himself. That in and of itself should be enough information for All Of Us. Hes running to be the leader of the free world. The holder of the nuclear codes. And we have his Impulse Control Being questioned business his own team of advisers on the pages of todays New York times. Tonights nan an Inflection Point for us, the voters. When we watch this Confrontation And Judge it with clear eyes, will we see one candidate supported by her entire party as well as prominent former leaders from the Republican Party, people like Dick And Liz cheney. And the other guy, estranged from much of his own cabinet from his administration, as well as his first Vice President. Will we see clearly that no matter what One Guy said about the 2024 election, hes already told his own voters that they dont ever have to vote again. Will we hold each participant to the same standard tonight. Will we entertain Policy Discussions if both Candidates Cant Declare on the Stage Tonight that the actual results of a last election really were. Will we watch with Confidence And Conviction or with fear. That fear that the bully and his enablers want us to feel. Hours to go before a high staked meeting before the four times Indictments Expresident and the nominee running a historic came is where we begin in philadelphia. Mini joins us, and also joining us political analyst tim miller, a former Rnc Spokesperson and host of the Bulwark Podcast and plus professor of Historior Ruth Bengie is here and msnbc senior analyst Matt Dowd is here. Ruth, you tell us how your watching Tonights Debate. Thanks, nicolle. First of all, these are not people would are approaching his occasion in the same way. In a democracy, the purpose of a debate is to allow voters to see both candidates, you know, added to views on questions. For an authoritarian, it is an occasion to indoctrinate people and to spew lies and to stage a kind of Fear And Smear propaganda show. And the authoritarian wants to control the narrative because trump is a very good information warrior. And the reason that it is important to have all of the lies, if there is no Fact Checking by the moderators, that means the adversary, harris in this case, Cannot Make her case to the people. She cant spend her time doing that, she has to be refuting his lies and his smears. So they are approaching this with different aims and in quite a different spirit. So why, ruth, why do they get set up this way. Why agree to these terms . You know, The Big Picture is that we have these forms of Election Season and we have these rituals in the Election Season and weve had them because were a democracy and i believe they dont work when you have one candidate that has exited the democracy. In fact, lets just think about what will happen. One of the candidates who will accept the election results, that is harris, no matter how they fall. The other will likely contest them and has already talked about prosecuting an investigating democrats likely harris included. So these are not these are not people would are even working in the same frame. And so it is problematic to put them together and pretend everything is okay. And that their equal candidates so i do have a problem with the whole frame that were pretending were still in a democracy and we could compare these people and treat them as equal. Matt dowd, what are your thoughts . You spent a lot of years at abc. You know these journalists will be conducting the debate. What are your thoughts heading into tonight . And i want to just put on the table, my Colleague Rachel maddows sentiment, i dont have it in front of me, shes hoping for a debate that is just a normal debate, not one that changes the contours of American Politics for weeks to come. Well, i disagree with rachel on that. Im hoping for a debate that solidifies the dynamics of this race in the positions that theyre in as opposed to it is just voters throw up their hands and say well it doesnt matter, either one, it doesnt matter. I think the former is going to happen. I think it is going to solidify the position of harris having a lead in a very contested race in this. I think David Muir and Lindsay Davis will do a good job. I think they will hold Donald Trump much more accountable than the cnn moderators did in the debate with Joe Biden. Though, i agree with what ruth just said, it is very difficult when youre going to get this toronto of lies by Donald Trump, to try to confront that in the midst of also trying to present what you want to present as a candidate, for harris. What i think she will probably do, and i dont know this and this is what i would recommend, but i think Shes Smart and shell probably do, is you dont have to attack every single lie that he tells. But i think at moments in times you have to pick certain lies and basically say, so many lies, so little time, let me deal with two of them. And do that a couple of times. And then just basically swat it away and just say, a couple of times say, wow, there are so much lies here, i know everybody said we cant handle all of this. Let me confront one or two of these. I think she needs to do that. I dont think that debate and you know this nicolle, having been through this, as much as about how one candidate Annunciates Policy specifics as it is the values they convey to the american Voter And Harris has much more to gain in this debate than Donald Trump does. Donald trumps position is very solidified in the voters minds. Favorable or unfavorable, a majority dislike him and he Cant Change that dynamic much. The person who could change the dynamic is much more Vice President harris in this. And i think she does that by coming across as simultaneously strong and empathetic and she could do that by enunciating policies and using policies to show shes strong and can do what the american public wants and relate to average americans. But i also think she needs to show her strength in confronting Donald Trump, not throughout the hour and a half, but at a certain key moments she needs to confront Donald Trump. More so to build up her own stake than to hold Donald Trump accountable in the voters mind. And your point about the upside, is that he walks in known by everybody, nobody is undecided on Donald Trump. There are no variables or levers for him to plus up or down. Shes the one that comes in, in your view, and in your analysis, matt, with the ability to make to further solidify the good impression people have and to introduce herself again to people who are just tuning in. Yeah. There are two things that i think are pillars for her tonight. The first thing is she has to maintain then Enthusiasm Advantage that democrats have over Donald Trump which is significant. D. C. S did not have an Enthusiasm Advantage in 2020 and 2016. The last time the democrats had an Enthusiasm Advantage like this was in 2008. So the debate, she hos that maintain that. But the group of voters, when is only about 5 or 6 of the country that is either undecided or soft harris or soft trump supporters, is they that group already dislikes Donald Trump. They are looking for a reason to go and solidify with Vice President harris. They already dislike Donald Trump. They dont want to vote for Donald Trump and they are looking for something to hang their hat on, and to me it is a quality of strength and Em Pangy and if she conveys that, then i think she Sol Fied her spot. But there is one thing to keep in mind. Solidifies means you maintain a 3 or 4 lead. That is it. Tim, i wish i had thought before you sat down to pull your slaying of Pierce Morgan. Because the story you tell to Pierce Morgan about why Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have never met is to me a wonderful story should she decide to explain why they werent on the same stage in 2020. Tell the story here. Yeah, i was thinking about that again when you read the quote from the Trump Aides, he cant contain his animosity. Why. There is no reason other than that other than Racism Or Sexism or and he just cant help himself. It is impulse control. So going back to what you asked about what i chatted with Pierce Morgan about, pierce had interviewed cory lewandowski, this little Softball Interview before i spoke to them. And cory is like, you wont believe this but Donald Trump and kamala has never met and this is the first time and they had this chummy chat to beg cory to let donald do an interview with him. And i said, wait a minute, did you think to ask why they didnt met. They didnt meet because trump had a Temper Tantrum and for the first time since the Civil War we did not have a peaceful transfer of power. For a first time the ceremonial transfer of power did not include the existing administration working with and passing the baton to the incoming administration. He didnt show up to Joe Biden and Kamala Harriss inauguration. He flew home to maralago and his emotional support cougars and golfs and had a Temper Tantrum. They havent met because hes a baby. And thinking about what ruth mentioned in the beginning, all of that is context for this debate, right. This is the first debate that these two have had since that. This is the first time weve had debates since somebody attempted a coup and did not participate in the oldest democrat, peaceful transfer of power and now he wants to be back in the White House again. And i think it is important to think about that context and to talk about it bluntly and frankly because, like ruth said, this isnt like Mitt Romney versus obama. It is different. It is different in nature because it is the first time that they will be on stage together and it is the first time well have somebody that has been convicted of felonies on that stage and been impeached twice on that stage with her. Look, it is not her job to bring all of that up, the whole debate. I think matt makes some good jobs about her job and to show strength and pick her spots. But at times it is important for the moderators an the Vice President to remind people of the reality and in a frank way so that the people understand and the viewers watching why this crazed mad man is on stage with her. Minnie, i picked up on this idea that trump may not be able to contain himself. Because no aide would say that about a woman, right. She not be able to contain herself. It suggests a lack of control. And only a male adviser to a male candidate would project on to the pages of the New York times. Their Candidates Lack of control when sharing a stage with a woman. It is a remarkable framing for the Trump Campaign to be offering up tonight. That if he attacks her in a ghoulish sexist, misogynistic racist way, it is not his fault, it is because he couldnt contain himself and he has an echo back to something that we covered yesterday, the Ache Is Hollywood tape and the women accused Donald Trump of Sexual Misconduct and sexual assault. All of that is now ballasted to a policy that affects every woman with a womb, every woman who has ever had a child, every woman who thinks she might some way want to have a child, any woman who ever looks back and remembers being able to have a child and every Man And Child who loves any one of those woman in any stage in her life and that is overturning Roe And Bragging about it. Tell me how you think his misogyny might be experienced differently in a postroe era. You know, this is the Donald Trump story, right. His entire life hes had guys around him excusing his behavior and making excuses. And hes been successful anyway. So honestly, why would he behave any differently. He won t