four think biden doesn't have the mental and cognitive health to serve as president. the poll was immediate conducted two days after the debate. it's margin of error is 4.2 points. but this is a seven point increase in the number of registered voters who have those specific doubts about joe biden on june 9. to counter the negativity, top biden supporters hit the airways today to stand by their candidate. i have spent time with joe biden. i can tell you that not only does he have a tough mind, but he has a tender heart. that is what you need in a president. donald trump has an ego. >> joe biden has confronted and has to come back from tragedies and trials and tribulations throughout his entire life. the moment we are in right now is a comeback moment. >> joe biden's decision to go forward is a decision we will all embrace because of the record he has and the performance that will come with it. >> for their part the campaign staff took a more abrasive approach to countering worries about joe biden. on saturday the campaign chair put out a memo stating that biden could still win and pointed to the $27 million the campaign raised after the debate. as for the polling, she stated, "if we do see changes in polling in the coming weeks, it will not be the first time that over blown media narratives have driven temporary dips in the polls." following that logic it's not because of his debate performance but because of the overblown media coverage. meanwhile in a fundraising email, the deputy campaign manager tried to reassure supporters by saying that the bedwetting brigade and they mentioned ammunition for this to deal with what they called your panicked aunt or maca uncle or some self-important podcasters. is that the best way to address supporters with legitimate concerns about biden's candidacy? maybe or maybe not. is the biden campaign dean defiant? probably or in they -- are they in denial?'s joining us is our panelists and a public scholars a fellow from the city of new york. tim, you are the card carrying member of the podcaster bedwetting brigade and do you want to respond to biden's attack on your integrity or more important on their spin? >> i don't know. he may have been attacking me. he didn't say. i will say this. we come from the same place to start with. which is that we passionately don't want donald trump to be the president in 2025 and a second trump term would be in absolute catastrophe. i think the bedwetters are motivated by that angle to keep trump out of the white house. to me, i think if you are watching this or in the biden campaign or a podcaster or a guest anchor on msnbc and are not bedwetting right now, i think you are deluding yourself. donald trump was winning this campaign before the debate. the reason why joe biden's team asked for an early debate in june was because they wanted to reframe the narrative, remind people about donald trump's extreme views and demonstrate that joe biden was up for the job. they failed on that. because of joe biden's performance and not because of the media coverage. right now, we are in a situation where trump was winning and biden had a terrible debate performance and trump is still now winning and we will see by much in the l coming weeks. we should be bedwetting. the biden campaign should be in figuring out if they are going to stay the course or what they will change in order to change the trajectory of this race so we can keep donald trump out of the white house. it's pick up on that. as far as tactics go, is this a smart one, to reassure people who do have legitimate concerns by saying, look, this panic isn't happening -- helping. it will cause more harm than we currently have inflict it upon ourselves. it should stop. or should they be more candid and upfront and acknowledge the debate performance and the severity of the problem they have created? >> they have to do both. i don't know why they agreed to a debate. we know that donald trump is quick on his feet and often qu times debate is about style and not substance. also most people don't change minds once they like -- watch a debate. this one made a lot of democrats quite nervous. where do we go from here is the larger question. i believe in playing with the cards i have. if indeed joe biden will stay the course and the democratic party will stick with him, they need to have some frank cover solutions with voters. i think some of the angst we need to be honest about is that some people don't want to see a black woman, the vice president, ascend as the president. that is a hard conversation for some people. and to see how long in the tooth that joe biden looked the other night at the debate is a question and they need to reassure voters consistently. he had a great performance the next day in north carolina which was with a teleprompter that many people pointed out. so getting out there and showing voters he is capable of doing this job, we don't talk enough about the fact that joe biden has been honest and on a debate stage it can slow things down. let's put them in an element . where people feel confident that he could actually do the job for four more years and he is the oldest u.s. president we have seen. people are nervous and rightfully so but incumbent upon the entire administration to assuage those fears. but not just get to november 5 but saying he can get the job done once he is in a second term. >> the times reporting that biden family is urging him to stay in the race and keep fighting during the retreat they held this weekend and the times is reporting, one of the strongest voices imploring mr. biden to resist pressure to drop out was his son hunter biden whom the president has long leaned on for device. and putting aside what you think of hunter biden, the family has an outsiders role in the future choices that the president will make and if they are planning to stick this out, what could they do to change the trajectory. yes, putting him out there morning on teleprompter specific environment may be the answer, but that seems to be the thing he can do the least. >> yes. and if he can't do it i think maybe we should be having a hard conversation and by we i guess maybe the pro-democracy movement but more specifically the top officials of the democratic party and the democratic family have an honest conversation about this. hunter biden's opinions and vibes and the fact he wants his dad to defend himself, i get it. i was there before jeb bush was deciding whether he was going to drop out or not and they were family members who wanted him to stay in but no path to victory. you have to make a hard choice in these situations backed by data and backed by the reality of the presidents ability. let's see what the data says and coming up this week the poll was 72% of people thinking he isn't cognitively able to be the president which is alarming and let's see what the swing state data says and let's have a conversation if they come out of that and say, joe biden needs to stay in this race. he needs to be out there. it is confusing to me that he wasn't doing interviews today and all of those clips you showed was from nancy pelosi and others and he did have that good event on friday in north carolina. he hasn't done an interview since the debate on thursday. that is totally not what you would expect a team to do if they needed to change the narrative. back when i was doing campaigns if we had a night as bad as that, we would've had the candidate out there the next morning and change the narrative and do interviews and go on the today show or 60 minutes or whatever going on fox maybe. he hasn't done that. >> he did have a wphoto shoot with annie leibovitz at camp david but putting that aside let's talk about something you mentioned, kamala harris. we are in this weird moment where we are openly talking about potential replacements for joe biden should he choose to drop out but no indication he will do so. in fact we have been told he will stick with it. we hear names like gretchen whitmer, raphael warnock and others and every time he was g out there seeming to bypass or ignore the obvious choice to replace biden on the ticket would be vice president harris and not because she is vice president but all the money raised could really only go to her anyway. so you alluded to this. what you think is going on? will voters be offended by the fact she isn't being talked about in a more serious way as a potential biden replacement? >> listen, we need to have some real conversations about what country we live in and we know that black women have been the keepers of democracy in the democratic party for quite some time, but we do know that the vast majority of voters across the political spectrum have a real issue with black female leadership and there is a reason why there has never been a black female governor in the history of our nation and only two black female senators in the history of our nation. executive leadership has been a juggernaut in our country and has she done a steadfast job in the last three years serving the country? absolutely. the fact we start conversations about gavin newsom and gretchen whitmer and pete buttigieg, all fine public servants, but they aren't the vice president. we have to look at the data as tim said and be honest that white women vote for the publican party by and large and have consistently done so in the only two times that white women have voted for the democratic party candidate is 1964 and 1996. c having a black woman at the top of the ticket doesn't seem like it will move the needle. there is this intersection of race and gender that has always been through glaringly obvious things and it's about everybody else but not the woman who is been literally doing the job in the white house next to the president. >> thank you so much. i can't let you leave yet. next, donald trump keeps mentioning black jobs. what is he even talking about? 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>> there is a small segment of the population is obviously feeling the brunt of inflation and scared about the future. this is donald trump low hanging fruit way of trying to exploit some of the ■ç dissatisfaction that black voters have with the democratic party and have had for a long time. there is a certain segment, party capture, where you don't have another party to go to but talking to voters in florida or arizona and definitely this sense of why is it that other groups are getting things that black voters didn't necessarily get? donald trump is exploiting that and he is always been best at trying to divide people. this is his latest tactic and i do agree with simone fully and i am unclear about what a black job is and there were some great things on the internet trying tó çexplain that but at the core of moving beyond the means and jokes, it didn't get who donald trump is which is this divisive character, who has a strong view of who he thinks the blacks are and immigrants are and he doesn't respect either group. for him it is easier to pick them against one another as opposed to really putting towards -- forward policy issues that helps either group of which he has none. he did nothing when he was president. he takes credit for a lot of things but he actually didn't help the economy or hbcus or veterans and he wants to erase the federal government of which there are many black jobs there and many black people working in u.s. jobs for the federal government. there are a lot of ways to move past his divisive rhetoric and hear what he is saying and how he thinks about all of these groups, which isn't very kind. and it hasn't been. >> to piggyback on this, trump isn't a very consistent person, but i would say the ■çone consistent thing that he has brought to politics is he has demonized migrants. this goes to that essentially with him stealing jobs from other constituencies and can you talk a bit about how that has kind of been the undercurrent of all of his things going back to 2016? >> trump has this lizard brain hatred of foreigners and immigrants like archie bunker style racism. he has really not had a deep policy thought to go around. what we see here is some of the nativist policy advisors around him using this wedge between migrants and working-class voters of color and this is like a tale as old as time and this nativist right■ç as far as immigration. it is how they have tried to get support among more traditionally liberal constituencies for hard-line immigration policies by demonizing migrants and trying to hit groups against each other. trump is offering a more hackneyed version of that in his bigoted way and i think relating to that last question in the last segment, i will say, again, if you look at what the biden/harris ticket right now is in the conversation they have around joe biden, i feel like kamala harris has demonstrated that she could make a pretty compelling counterattack on this topic and has done so and has done so with abortion and other issues and has done so in other appearances since the debate on thursday. i think it is noteworthy that donald trump made this gap at the debate and joe biden really didn't push back on it but i think kamala ja$i%m pretty effective voice in pushing back on this. >> i do want to talk about the president of the black conservative federation who said, quote, he met the jobs of black people and we have been using this term for a while and that is not what he said, right? >> absolutely not. to tim's point, we will get this in a later segment but this f no christian nationalist agenda that donald trump's ilk has, donald trump doesn't care and he isn't interested in policy but interested in being in charge whatever that means for him just having people stand up and salute him but he doesn't care about these issues. he is always had a very particular view of the blacks and immigrants and nevermind the ■çfact that two of his thre wives are immigrants and four of his five children are children of immigrants. he doesn't see them as worthy or deserving or part of this country. we can't have a president who has that mindset and surrounds himself with people who have that. that is the larger question we are getting at which is the trump versus biden conversation we have. it isn't just about donald trump or joe biden but the types of people they surround themselves with and the types of policies we get. we get policies that drastically hurt women and drastically hurt black people especially with donald trump who wants to essentially pull this country apart and sell it for pieces. these are government jobs that black americans have relied on to elevate themselves into the middle class and these are the top jobs that the donald trump ilk are targeting to get rid ■ç and first if he is ever reelect. we have to make sure we aren't just talking about these two men and what they say or don't say but people who implement some of these horrible policies that donald trump has thrown out there at his rallies. >> i am not going to let you go. you have to stick around because we have more to talk about. next, the supreme court issued a win for abortion access and idaho so wire doctors there still scared to give life- saving care? 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(♪♪) and enxtra for focus and clarity. centrum, powered by clinically studied ingredients. it only takes a second for an everyday item to become dangerous. tide pods child-guard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. for now, emergency abortions are technically allowed in idaho. the supreme court sidestepped a ruling last week on whether the states abortion law conflicts with federal law that requires stabilizing care for emergency room patients. this includes pregnant women suffering complications who may require abortions. nicole miller of idaho was one of ■çthose cases. in her 20th week of pregnancy, she started bleeding heavily. her husband rushed her to the emergency room for care. she spoke exclusively to nbc about what happened next. >> reporter: she says she couldn't believe what the doctor told her. >> to risk his 20 year career and i was shocked. i was in the hospital with doctors who could help me. nobody wanted to help me. >> reporter: because they were in idaho, which bans nearly all abortions, she was flown to utah. she is part of a lawsuit now by the center of reproductive rights. >> i kept thinking i would never see my girls again. >> to be bleeding and worry about your life and put on ■çan airplane. >> it felt horrible. it felt like nobody was willing to take care of me and passing me off. i remember that day saying to almost anybody who walked into the room, i don't want to die. >> the high courts decision last week doesn't clear things up. doctors in idaho and states with the near-total abortion bans say they have little clarity about what medical emergencies are covered. and there is little reassurance that they will not face charges. as justice jackson said in her opinion, the ruling isn't a victory for pregnant patients. joining me now is our contributor, a doctor and also■ amy littlefield and abortion access correspondent. thank you so much, doctor. start with your response to nicole miller's story and this fear that doctors have around performing the emergency abortion that she so urgently needed? how do you see this decision fitting into that equation?'s to what extent does it relieve or exacerbate, honestly, concerns around what emergency situations are covered for abortion providers? >> they are certainly limited with relief. i think all of us are grateful it didn't err on the side to say that it didn't apply but it was limited relief. and i think it was because, listening to her story, unfortunately, we will see more than that and they still didn't give us, the supreme court, didn't necessarily say this is where this law applies but they kicked it ■çback and says it needs to work its way through the court system and idaho doctors that i spoke to, not just ob/gyn's but emergency room doctors. they say they are confused about whether or not something constituted abortion care in the process of saving a woman's life would be enough to then keep them from being held legally liable. many of the doctors and the idaho medical association reinforces this by issuing a statement saying we aren't sure if there is enough protection here and we likely still will see women in idaho being forced to leave the state to get the care they need. i think what we are all asking for is a clear maternal health exception. >> let's talk about the national implications. obviously, this case is specifically around emergency abortions in idaho. there are broader implications for pregnant patients and other states with extreme bans and it's not just about leaving the state but doctors who have to turn the lawyers and hospitals to say can i do these procedures, right? >> that is why i think this case is really a harbinger. it is a harbinger of a defeat we'll have after the 2024 election when it seems clear there is a majority of conservatives on the supreme court that are ready to rule that federal law doesn't protect gravely ill pregnant patients from state abortion bans that require they have to be almost dead before a doctor can intervene. i don't want to be too glib. this is a ■çtemporary reit -- reprieve. we know the largest healthcare system in idaho said it was taking patients out of state and a helicopter at a rate of about 1 every two weeks because they were getting dire pregnancy complications but not quite dead enough where doctors were committing a felony if they helped. for every patient whom doctors determined they are hemorrhaging but they have to get on a helicopter, i say that is a win for those individuals but i do agree with justice jackson's assessment, it is an attempt to allay -- delay. this is until after the election. this case is about the gap between somebody who is gravely ill and pregnant and somebody who is actively dying and pregnant. it is about the gap between somebody who is maybe about to lose a major bodily organ or lose their future fertility. and somebody a doctor can look at and say definitely that person is about to die right now. the optics are bad for republicans on this and they don't want to have the abortion conversation on these terms. they want to believe that abortion after birth is a thing and they don't want to be talking about how you or somebody you love could be lading there -- laying there bleeding with an infection with the doctor standing over them trying to make a determination of whether they are dead enough yet. okay? i think justice jackson said this and justice alito and his decision in the case said he thinks the court has lost the will, as he put it, to rule on this matter on the merits because i think it is a an escape hatch and as she put it ç storm clouds loom ahead and i want that on a bumper sticker please. it is a slogan for 2024 across the board. so i do think we can expect that the supreme court will consider this issue again and whether it is to do with idaho's law which is headed back to the lower courts or to do with texas, where in a similar case, the conservative fifth circuit allowed it to be preempted by their strict abortion bans the women in the state of texas are living without those protections right now. >> doctor, i want to ask you, not necessarily the politics of the legality, but as a medical matter, tell a viewer how often do pregnancies end up in this dire stage? and then, if you are a doctor, górced to confront this conundrum, talk about sort of that weird mental place where you have to weigh your hippocratic oath versus the possibility of jail time. >> to be honest, that is the problem that most of us can't kind of think about is how to protect myself legally while i make sure what i do what is right in front of me but to your first point about how common this is, i think this is exact we where people get incredibly lost. if you look at the details, there are pregnant women that on the average, even about one and 100 pregnancies can have some sort of complication■ç tha lands them in their last trimester in an emergency room. i myself have had it where i thought i was experiencing contractions prematurely. it can be a number of things like your blood pressure or so many things that could happen in the last trimester where you are past that point. you want the baby and you want the pregnancy to come to fruition, but you have an emergency. this is the scenario you heard from. some were being airlifted out of idaho and states like texas. these aren't uncommon and these are not women seeking abortions on demand and that is out there and some conservative literature and these are not doctors finding abortion. it is common and we don't want to face it. we want to take care of the patient and do what is best for them. >> thank you so much, doctor and next up oklahoma said public schools will teach the bible or else.■ç these underwear are period-proof. and sneeze-proof. and sweat-proof. they're leakproof underwear, from knix. comfy & confident protection that feel just like normal. with so many styles and colors to choose from, switching is easy at knix.com on this show on this show we have been following a growing concern and movement to infuse christian values and public schools. louisiana became recently the first united state to require the 10 commandments be displayed in schools and now oklahoma said all public schools teach the bible. the superintendent of public instruction ryan wolters sat down for an interview with nbc news and gave this ominous warning to teachers who refuse to teach the bible. >> they will be reprimanded and told this is part of the oklahoma academic standards and the teacher breaks the law refuses to, they could lose their license. >> my panel is back with me now and when you see louisiana requiring the 10 commandments to displayed and now the school in oklahoma mandating the entire bible be taught in the classrooms, where does your mind go? are we walking toward a ■ç theocracy? >> the word theocracy is loaded. i am in louisiana. it matters to me personally and it is pretty gross and also absurd to put the 10 commandments in every school and have the governor hear jeff landry, a loyal adherent of the maga church decide to put the 10 commandments up when the head priest has broken every one of them. and the whole thing is scary in certain ways and i think these teachers in oklahoma are losing their jobs potentially which is a big threat and i think there has been a christian nationalist wing within the republican party and a long time and on the right the power of that wing is growing dramatic we every ■çyear. actually, i just re-watched ronald reagan in 1984. he gave a pretty compelling defense of the separation of church and state and they wanted to pass some conservative policies as well that we have gone even further down the road toward everybody on the right denying there needs to be a separation between church and state at all which is the fundamental principle of america which is deeply alarming. >> christina, you are an educator and you heard this threat that teachers could essentially lose their jobs if they don't follow the rule in teaching the bible. what is it like if you are a teacher in the school there?'s how scary is that? >>■ç it is absolutely frightening. we will also lose quality teachers, those who don't want to be in a school system where they could possibly lose their license if they don't want to follow this f know christian nationalism. we have to think about that we have such a diverse student population. not every child in the school, putting teachers aside, is a christian. i have muslim and christian students and buddhists and hindus. the idea that we have to make students learn the bible is part of a much larger, longer agenda of the republican party we have seen play out from the supreme court to the state governments to small towns and local governments across the country and as tim said, it is been a wing of the party, but the faction has been growing. it's taking over the party in recent years. >>■ç tim miller and christina greer, i will finally let you go. thank you so much. i appreciate it. next, supreme court decisions that have truly transformed college admissions. college admissions in that dishwasher. only platinum plus is packed with more dawn to remove up to 100% of grease and food residue. get the highest standard of clean, even in your machine. clean enough for ya? 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[ gasps ] [ chuckling ] good job, junior. way to go. [ chuckling ] [ speaking minionese ] a new msn be -- msnbc show is a look at supreme court decisions that have transformed college admissions. it traces the legal debate overç affirmative action that divided americans even within the same communities. here is a quick look. >> that is when i noticed one common theme, they were asian- american. that is when i thought, what if me being asian-american was a problem. >> yes a lot of kids would have near-perfect sats and amazing extracurricular activities. and they end up in great schools but not ivy league and that is why wanted to file a lawsuit and my dad stopped me and said you know how much a lawsuit costs? and then he said i will do this for the civil rights office in the department of education after he filed the complaint. he said there are so many. >> my dad decided this is a big enough issue to where we ■çshou gather asian parents to try to form a coalition to help address this issue and put it at the forefront. >> as a child growing up, my father said if you work hard, you will be able to succeed and what do we know that as? we know that is the american dream. >> they come to this country for opportunity and they discriminate. >> i don't necessarily know if they go to harvard but they should not discriminate certain groups. >> after the break, i will talk to the codirectors of the missions granted. stay with us.■ç this charmin ultra soft smooth tear is soooo soft and soo smooth. charmin ultra soft smooth tear has wavy perforations that tear so much better for a smooth more enjoyable go. charmin, enjoy the go. - [narrator] life with ear ringing for a smooth more enjoyable go. sounded like a constant train whistle i couldn't escape. then i started taking lipo flavonoid. with 60 years of clinical experience, it's the number one doctor recommended brand for ear ringing. and now i'm finally free. take back control with lipo flavonoid. a year ago a year ago this weekend, the supreme court gutted affirmative action essentially ending race conscious admissions at u.s. colleges and university. it wasn't a surprise that the super majority voted together and ending affirmative action has been a long-standing goal of their movement. and the last one was edward bloom a one-man crusader against the 1965 voting rights act and affirmative-action. after years of defeat, he finally succeeded with the new strategy. rather than casting a white plaintiff as the face of the angry student who failed ■çto g into the college of their choice, whom created a group called students for fair admissions and recruited asian- americans. it worked. and now we have a lot of apprehension in the asian- american community about being thrust into the center of this contentious debate and behind the scene story of this landmark supreme court case is being told in a revealing documentary called admissions granted which premieres tonight -- sorry. it premieres here tonight at nine a clock p.m. eastern. i am joined by the codirectors. you got some incredibly amazing access to all the people involved in this historic court case. tell me, how did you get into the story and how are you able to get into ■çthese characters? how did you get them to agree to talk to you about this in such a deeply personal way? >> yes. when i started this in late 2019 when the district court ruling had come down. we were reading a lot about the case. also, being asian-americans ourselves, we also know a lot of people and discussing the case in different ways. that really piqued our interest. through the research, a lot of people we got on the harvard side were people who testified in the district court. since we started, the pandemic happened as soon as we started doing research. that gave us a lot of time to read a lot of court transcripts. edward bloom, ■çhe has done a l of media appearances and quite open to speaking about his work. he gave us fairly open access from fairly early on as well. that is how it got started. >> that is amazing. the film captures what is real tension that some asian- americans were feeling. on one hand there fighting against anti-asian discrimination and then on the other hand, they are the face of anti-a front of him -- anti- affirmative-action. this is a short clip. >> it is very frustrating that asian-americans are the face of this and a wedge in ■çthis issu >> yes. there is some amount of using, but on the other hand this is what political alliances are about. you find a common cause. >> may be edward has other motives but in terms of funding for asian-americans, we are on the same page. >> if they were really concerned about them, don't you think they should ask for relief or asian-americans? >> we are year now removed from the supreme court's decision. has that apprehension that you captured increased or decreased?'s >> i think our goal has been to capture the complexity around the affirmative-action debate and also to try to portray the diversity within the asian- american community and within the community, the debate and discussion ■çcontinues today an some groups within the asian- american community are still, you know, believing that affirmative-action should've been upheld and we are still working very hard to promote the diversity and promotion of underprivileged minorities in college campuses whereas another group is firmly against affirmative-action and they applauded. this kind of debate does continue within the community and hopefully we can facilitate even deeper conversations around this divisive issue but because i think and democracy more conversations would be good for us to decide what is the best way going forward? >> i am curious about this. this centers around, to ■ça degree, edward bloom, a conservative activist but he took up a cause that is near and dear to many asian-american students and what was your take on his motivation after spending so much time with them and learning the role he played in this process in dealing with the students? >> as you can see, when you watch the film, edward bloom has been on a decades long mission to really get rid of the race consideration in all sectors of society. so asian-americans is a new factor in this case and the cases he brought out before definitely weren't involved and didn't involve asian-americans. this isn't something new in a lot of ways ■çfor him as this i part of the continuation of the work he has been doing. it will continue onward with now, as you have seen, other cases he brought forward and it doesn't have anything to do with even higher education. it will go toward the other sectors of society. >> we are now one year removed from the supreme court's decision and it is having a significant impact with the washington post reporting the decision going far beyond academia. programs meant to diversify companies, public boards, and government contractors face a legal onslaught unleashed by this ruling pushing americans aside and the society at large toward a new race neutral era. what you think the lmg@cy of the ruling will ultimately be? will it stay with academia or will it be broader? >> it will be a much broader thing because as we capture in the film, this has been a steady goal for people like edward bloom and he stated in the film that he hoped that this in this case would kickstart the next phase of this entire society adopting a colorblind principal not just in college admissions but and work places and public contracting, voting. so we are seeing right now a lot of corporate and public private sector organizations scaling back efforts because they are afraid of that lawsuit. we do see more and more ■ç lawsuits actually going through the judiciary system and hopefully being able to reach the supreme court within the next few years. we will have a better understanding of how it impacts or the court will continue to rule on the issue of race consideration. >> all right. the film looks incredible. thank you for making it and we appreciate that. thank you, the viewer, for spending time with us. i am sam stein. tein

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