can love who you want to love, that is going to be joe biden's america. let's talk about the fact that this fool wanted to tell us about black jobs. let's be clear. donald trump does not understand black culture. what he is doing is playing in our faces and he has got people he wants to sit up there and throw out his little tokens and be like, hey, look at my little black friend. that is essentially what he does. at the end of the day, i need people to choose themselves. if everyone is saying, the economy is number one, please y tell me why you would vote for donald trump when he refused to answer any economic question. he has no plan come he never has had a plan, and the only plan he plans to follow is the manifesto that has been laid out in project 2025, that believes that the ei is the end of us. that means people like me, people of color, women, that is a problem for them. they want to excommunicate us. they are trying to give the keys over to the white supremacist, as we also saw the supreme court to do earlier this week, as it relates to the insurrectionist. i need people to wake up. i know that they say they do not want us to be woke, this is exactly why. because they want us to be sleep while they continue to take our rights, while they continue to reform our courts, they continue to say that we don't want you to have access to the ballot box. this is about all of us. if people want to be honest with themselves, what they needs to do is look at which team delivers for you. if you are happy about the dollars flowing into your community because of the infrastructure, because of the chips and science bill, because of the reduction in the cost of insulin, that was due to the democrats, house democrats, senate democrats, and democratic administration, it is time to choose yourself and figure out which team is riding with you. if you want more of the chaos we have seen out of this house, that is all you are going to get, times three, if you decide to go with donald trump, because he is loud and wrong. >> democratic representative jasmine crockett bringing it this morning. thank you for being with us. as always, we always appreciate the time you take for us. another hour of "velshi" starts right now. good morning. it is saturday, june 29th. this has been by far the strangest and most unprecedented election cycle and then this week happened. president joe biden turned in an alarmingly weak performance at the first presidential debates of the season. that news cycle has since been dominated by that, not by the supreme court's decision to extend its session past june for only the fourth time in nearly 40 years to further delay criminal cases against donald trump for proceeding before election day, and not by the court's overturning of four decades of president on friday. enabling many court watchers are calling the dangerous, blatant judicial power grab. instead, the new cycle has been dominated by coals of john joe biden to drop off of the presidential race, including the editorial board, "new york times", and leaders of the economist, and dispatches from the penner inner circles of the democratic party was scrambling to come up with a backup plan. so far anyway, no elected or party leader has gotten on the record, suggesting joe biden be dropped from the democratic ticket. one of the country's most popular democrats, the former president barack obama, who himself delivered a poor performance in his run for a second term, stepped in for a reminder that a performance in a debate is not the same thing as performance as president. quote, bad debate nice happen. trust me, i know. what this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about himself. end quote. republicans are gloating. most democrats are disappointed, alarmed even, that this debate and this election is becoming a referendum on joe biden, when donald trump was standing across the stage from him, and will appear as the other choice on the ballot in november. it is true, pardon me. it is true, biden stumbled, lost his train of thought, looked confused on the stage on thursday night. those of you that don't want to admit that is true are fooling yourselves. donald trump lied. he honored the insurrectionist who attacked the capitol. by the way, he has been impeached twice, convicted on 34 felony counts, faces three other prosecutions, and has been held liable for business fraud and sexual assault and defamation. but biden was off his game. that is the thing people are talking about. donald trump's legacy involves the radical of the supreme court. in the past few years, the conservative super majority ushered in has rolled back reproductive rights across the country, gutted affirmative action, and has helped to in delay his federal election appearance trial. the supreme court, half of whom were appointed by donald trump, just handed down another devastating decision yesterday that will have profound consequences for democracy and for all of us. an overruling the decade's old precedents for me which we know as the chevron doctrine, the court has essentially hobbled federal agency's regulatory power, a regular major win for corporate interests and industry, and a judicial power grab. a major victory for the conservative cause that will drastically curb the independent oversight powers of our executive agencies. it is a critical decision that will help republicans get the moving on project 2025, which as you know is the comprehensive right- wing manifesto that outlines numerous plans for the next conservative administration, presumably a donald trump administration. one of project 2025's stated goals is quote, dismantle the administrative state. i'm going to take a deeper dive into that specific supreme court decision later in the struggle. i talked about this last hour, but there's so much we need to talk about, but we were talking about the debate performance. the existence of project 2025 and the 920 page playbook outlining its plan should be a reminder to everyone that this is not about biden versus trump for about a debate, it is about the administration that they will lead. the presidency that they will eat and erratically different visions for the future of our country. while we are all talking about the bait debate, it is worth reminding everyone the company that trump keeps, since more than a handful of his advisers and allies have found themselves at odds with the law. on monday, steve bannon, former white house chief aide, will arrive at prison after the supreme court rejected his plea to remain free while his appeal is pending. two years ago, a jury found him guilty of two counts of criminal contempt charges for refusing to comply with subpoenas issued by the january 6th committee. trump's former advisor peter navarro, also in prison for failing to submit the subpoena for the january 6th committee. trump is not the man he was four years ago, i will admit that. i don't have to come he did friday. it was painfully clear during the debate. remember, as i mentioned, never a good debater. but donald trump is also not the same person he was in the last election cycle. he is way worse! he has become more brazen, outlandish, more racist, more xenophobic. he remains unrepentant for any chaos he has called for the crimes for which he has been convicted, or the attempt to overturn the election of 2020. this election cannot be allowed to become a referendum about joe biden, when donald trump continues to undermine democracy at every opportunity. donald trump is unfit for office, and of that, there is no debate here joining me now is former democratic senator doug giles of alabama, also form united states attorney for the northern district of alabama, and the author of the book, quote, bending toward justice. a professor of history at nyu, the author of "lucid close" newsletter, and author of the book "strongman mussolini to the president." good morning to the both of you. ruth, you had a very quick response on social media to the debate and a reminder that some of us forget. that is that the ensuing discussion about the debate place very well into donald trump's hands and what you call the authoritarian playbook. tell me more about what you meant. >> this wasn't a debate, in the sense that a debate is when two candidates show up to educate the people, with accurate information, about their agendas so that voters can make a choice. donald trump showed up to spew began to, turn this into a propaganda show, and that was his information warfare agenda all along. and the problem is, because there was no live fact checking, a grievous error on the part of cnn, whoever was there, you can substitute biden for someone you like better, that person would have been forced into a defensive position, refuting all of the lies, because this was a firehose of falsehood as we say in propaganda studies, coming from trump. would have had to spend his time in defense of position, rather than arguing his case to the american people and focusing on his achievements. the old framing of the quote, debate, is wrong and we can't have-- this is like the old forms of election politics, continuing, but when you have an authoritarian in the mix, they don't work anymore. >> senator, you know from experience what it is like to run against a volatile, intellectually dishonest, populist candidate. let's talk about how you-- and i take ruth's point, for the moment until we have a better word, we will refer to it as the debate, how difficult is it to go up against an unrestrained candidate who constantly lies? i take it as a moderator's job to try to keep modesty in the debate, but that is very difficult when you are running against someone like donald trump. >> it is almost impossible, because they are dominating and controlling. when you are against an opponent completely unfettered to the truth, they can say and do anything and really be bullying and dominating. i think about the only thing you can do is look over and say, that is a lie. that is a lie once again. let me tell you about the biden administration, or whatever. i think you said it in your opening monologue very well. the presidency is about much more than a single debate. it is about much more than simply a two minute answer on a debate stage or a one minute response. it is about judgment, character, liberation. it is about putting 18, as you noted, an administration together that people have confidence in, not a bunch of wackos, like we have seen in the past with donald trump, and more likely to see again. that is what this is about. i think going forward, people will see that. yeah, you are going to see joe biden's debate performance over and over again. but i think as we go forward, you will see a lot coming out about what donald trump actually said and did. it is frightening for the american people when the republican party, unlike democrats, who are openly talking about the fact that biden had a bad night, that is the way democracy works. on the other hand, as you noted , you got a republican party falling behind their dear leader, who will not question the felony counts, who will not question his millions of dollars in fraud judgment, which means misleading the public in fraud. nobody is questioning that. i think as we go forward, that is going to become crystal clear to the american people. >> and that is an interesting point, ruth. what you have amongst the democrats in the last two days, i have to admit, because i don't know what the future should look like, is a debate by members of a party who are a part of a big tent, some of whom think joe biden should go, step aside, should be replaced by someone else, some of whom think he should stay. all of which tells me the democrats are not a cult at the moment. they are a bunch of people with differing views and at the moment would like the preservation of democracy. they would like that form to be in the defeat of donald trump. republicans are in a different place. what trump says is right and is not to be questions. >> year, one of the reasons that far right messaging is so hectic is that they have unified messaging. trump, ever since his first impeachment, has put the device on the party, so the people, not just voting in ways he does not like, it is even saying anything. remember when senator ted cruz was hauled on tucker carlson's show a long time ago because he made the mistake of calling january 6th a terrorist operation, and he was publicly humiliated. you could see the fear in his eyes, because he is a senator, but he had no power in that moment because he had violated the unified propaganda talking points. that is the advantage that they have had. you can save the democrats, having this public questioning, is a sign of health in the party. the only thing is, i am very skeptical, because the way, from where i sit, i studied authoritarian's who are superb for foreigners, professional liars. and what we saw was somebody who lied with great vigor, and great energy, and so he is being proclaimed the winner of the debate. that is not a sign of a healthy democracy. that is a sign of an environment where the kind of sensationalist values have taken hold over the meaning of politics. the form and style matters, the content no longer matters. biden telling the truth in a feeble way made him the loser. trump telling lies in a vigorous way made him the winner. that is not right. >> and let's see how this all pans out. we only have one poll right now. it was a morning poll released after the race. if i were pulled right now, i would say to somebody, i need a few days to digest, read, think. we saw what joe biden had to say, senator, friday in response in which he said, i'm not the man i used to be, in a lot of ways. the poll is interesting in that it shows the race largely unchanged by the debate. 45% of registered voters say they support joe biden and 44% say, they support trump, in the margin of error in which there is normally no limitations to polling that take place right after an event. what do you think the right answer is? democrats and people who don't want donald trump to be president would just like to know what the road forward looks like. i think they would like to know someone is thinking about it, probably joe biden and those around him. what is your sense of what the future should look like? should joe biden be staying in this race or should there be some consideration by joe biden about a different option?>> look , i know this. i have known joe biden for 45 years now plus. and i know they have looked at the game films. i know they have discussed the performance the other night. i also know this, at his core, and everybody in the world that has ever watched joe biden nose is, at his core, joe biden makes decisions, not based on personal gain the way that donald trump does. he makes decisions based on what he believes to be the best interest of the country. and that is what he is going to do. the path forward is to continue to show the american people what you have done, your deliberation, experience, your team, your judgment. those are the kinds of things that will be very, very important. i think it is also important to remember and the morning consult poll was very important, i think, because it was a snapshot medially after the debate. what i am likely to see now is because of the media coverage, as opposed to the actual debate itself. the media coverage may be caused a little slip in those polls. i think that could be overcome very easily. one of the things, but remember it this. remember the access hollywood tape? remember the calls among republicans for donald trump to drop out of the race? those kinds of things are gone now your january 6, republicans thought they had read their party of donald trump. that lasted about 48 hours. this is a healthy debate. at the same time, what is going to happen, they are going to make a decision in the best interest of the country. we are going to go forward on the issues that have made this a very successful presidency, and will continue to make it a consistent successful presidency in the four years to come. >> thank you to both of you. i appreciate this analysis. this is a remarkably important conversation and your input is invaluable to those out there trying to process this. jones forming united states senator from alabama and author of the book quote, bending toward justice. ruth is present at the university and author of quote lucid newsletter, and quote, strongman a letter to the presidency. treatment of ruling from friday has given the project 2025 a major head start of getting agency powers and meet the average american more vulnerable to practices by countries-- companies and industries. we dive into the chevron deference is and what it means toward democracy. the growth of importance of libraries in this new era. has taken on new life in recent years with an emphasis on battling book bans. that is coming up on the "velshi" ban book club. club. n that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. wanna know a secret? more than just my armpits stink. facts. that's why i use secret whole body deodorant for clinically proven odor protection everywhere. so i smell great all day, all hike, and all night. secret whole body deodorant. if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. will tamra, izzy and emma... no one puts more love into logistics than these three. you need them. they need a retirement plan. work with principal so we can help you with a plan that's right for your team. let our expertise round out yours. this week, the supreme court handed a major victory to the conservative legal effort to weaken federal agencies of this country. the conservative supermajority overturned a 40- year-old legal principle known as the chevron doctrine or the chevron deference. this long-standing principle required courts to defer to federal agencies' own interpretations of laws that they administer when there is some ambiguity in the law. there is always ambiguity in the law, because no law is written to anticipate all outcomes. the new ruling now says, unless congress explicitly specifies its intentions in a law, the final say and how that law is implemented will fall not to the experts at the government agencies, but to unelected federal judges, up to and including the justices sitting on the united states supreme court. and we all know how well that has gone recently. since congress can't possibly anticipate every interpretive issue when it creates a law, you typically delegates that authority to experts who staffed these agencies, such as scientists at the environmental protection agency, or the environmental specialist at the securities exchange commission, or the health inspectors at the fda. friday's ruling affectively wrestles this authority away from specials and experts and puts it in the hands of not expert judges. overturning the so-called chevron doctrine privatize his judicial judgments over agency expertise that diminishes congress's ability to legislate effectively through delegation to agencies. now, that may sound like a bunch of gobble goog, but this is a major win for the conservative legal movement, which seeks to dismantle the regulatory framework that oversee critical aspects of america life on the air we breathe, to the food we eat, to the safety of the prescription drugs that we take. weakening the authority of federal agencies also happens to play right into the hands of project 2025, the conservative blueprint for a trump second term. project 2025 aims to dismantle democratic institutions and purge the executive branch of career expert civil service by replacing them with loyalists. according to project 2025, what is known as the administrative state is a major competitive to the far right agenda. it is written in project 2025. quote, unless conservatives take a firm hand to the bureaucracy and marshal its power, nothing will stop the bureaucracy's anti-free market, leftist march. there are many tools to bring the administrative state to heal and in the process defang and defund the woke culture warriors who have infiltrated every last institution in america. our goal is to assemble an army of trained and prepared conservatives to go to work on they want to deconstruct the administrative state. end quote. the supreme court's seismic ruling on monday morning, which was all lost in the debate about the presidential debate itself on thursday night, has given the project 2025 agenda a major head start by gunning federal agency power. the average american is now vulnerable to predatory practices by companies and industries with the means and resources to challenge regulations in which they disagree. we are going to unpack all of this after a quick break with the expert, kermit roosevelt iii at the university of pennsylvania law school. sylvan. that gritty feeling can't be brushed away. even a little blurry vision can distort things. and something serious may be behind those itchy eyes. up to 50% of people with graves' could develop a different condition called thyroid eye disease, which should be treated by a different doctor. see an expert. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com 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[panting] i thought i was sleeping ok... but i was waking up so tired. then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. their four—point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better. and stay married. this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. all right, joining me now, kermit roosevelt iii, professor for constitutional law at the university of pennsylvania law school, also the author of the book, "the nation that never was , reconstructing america's story." professor, thank you for being with us. i want to start with something perhaps a little less academic. probably all of us in life have interacted with a regulation that we think is unfair or a bit of an overreach or needs to be fixed. probably every one of us in the developed world has done that because that is the way governments work. there is legislation and then government bodies staffed by civil service and experts formulated and put the flesh on the bones, the meat on the bones, if you will hear it we have, for more than 30 years in this country, have had some sort of attack on the idea that the civil service is its own creature that somehow impedes business and industry and stands in the way of progress. >> yet, so one of the things we are seeing here is a very long- standing, conservative attempt to deregulate. it is important and valuable to understand is that something that helps big business. big business likes deregulation, but also important to think of in terms of power. what this does fundamentally is, it takes power away from the rock receipt, silver servants that have devoted their lives to protecting the environment, because that is what they believe, protecting workers and investors. it puts that power in the hands of judges. that will cause a lot of instability. now, instead of the stable, administrative agencies that have consistent agendas and are staffed by people that were there a long time, you have got elected judges. maybe it depends a lot on which judge you get. they will be overwriting agency decisions. >> you know, reagan talked about the big era of big government being over. it is the same idea. what that decision yesterday on the supreme court does is does not provide a meaningful alternative . judges will get to decide, not expert judges will get to decide certain things, and things that they like that are in place that these administrative agencies are doing will exist and those things that they don't like will be changed. it sort of shifts the entire way the bureaucracy supports democracy in this country. the bureaucracy did kind of support democracy, but it is not going to anymore. if you think about this as the regulatory, and it is probably overall going to be deregulatory, but judges can override and tell them they will have to regulate. told the biden administration, told homeland security they have to reinstate trump's homeland security in mexico policy. the other thing people think is probably more common is the judge telling the cdc that they can't have a mask mandate, because she looked at from 1940s dictionary and looked up the word sanitation, and does not think it covers the regulation that they implemented. >> so, in fact, that becomes a part of the issue. one of the things these federal agencies do and the bureaucracy does, is they interpret, as ellie was saying in the last hour. they interpret when you say clean water what kleen is and what water is peered we would rather have the experts interpret interpret what kleen water is, generally speaking, clean water, sanitization, and masks. >> sanitation was the word they are. you would think the real issue is, is this regulation effective humor is this going to protect public health? instead, it came down in her mind to how this word was used in dictionaries from 1940s, and whether sanitation involved preventing something from becoming dirty or cleaning it me which is sort of a crazy thing for that policy to turn on. you are going to get strange results from all of these individual judges. the other point to keep in mind, of course, at the end, at the top, you've got a republican super majority on the supreme court. to shift power on the judiciary, you will get wacky decisions from judges over overruling experts. the supreme court is not an expert either on these matters. just discourage chicks just wrote an opinion, consistently telling the epa it had not done a good enough job justifying its decision. the supreme court is not an expert, but it is reliably republican and will be for the resealable future. that is the food into power there. >> project 2025 makes numerous specific references to the administrative state. it calls it a leftist thing, an organization like an institution with a woke agenda. was the connection between this and project 2025? >> i think it is important to understand what they mean by leftist, or woke agenda, or deep state. these people who staff the agencies are people who believe in good government. who believe the government should work, that it should do its job, protect the american people. people at the epa, fda, sec, osha, they are out there trying to make the system that we have created work. and there is a preference, like what the supreme court is doing here, what project 2025 is about, is taking away the people who really know what they are doing, who are dedicated to making the government work and replacing them with political partisans who will do whatever the president wants. and that is good for them, if you have got a republican president. if you have got a democratic president, it is not so good, then you have got the judiciary under your control and can still stop whatever the emma credit administration does. they are trying to take away the backbone of our government. >> we are going to watch this one very closely. kermit roosevelt iii, we appreciate your analysis this morning. associate professor of constitutional law at the university of pennsylvania law school and the author of the book, "the nation that never was, reconstructing america's story." coming up, i will be joined by emily, president of the american library association ally from the group's annual conference right here in san diego, where i am. right-wing activists who brought their so-called culture wars to america's public libraries. we will talk about what librarians are doing to fight back for the freedom to read. this summer. snacking. just. got. serious. introducing new $3 footlong dippers. the world might not be ready for them... ...but at $3 a pop? your wallet definitely is. this week, the united states supreme court sidestepped a ruling that declined to protect emergency abortion care for pregnant patients. the court opted against deciding whether idaho's strict abortion ban conflicts with the law that requires stabilizing care for emergency room patients, including pregnant women suffering complications, who may require abortions, which means, a lower court ruling that allows doctors in idaho to perform emergency situation abortions remains in effect for now. another false start for reproductive freedom on the national level two years after roe v. wade was overturned. abortion rights are not safe, no matter where you are. when roe was overturned, justice samuel alito writing for the majority said, it should be decided by the states . the selection, that is what is happening. nevada is the latest date to put abortion on the ballot in november. nevada currently allows abortion up to 24 weeks of pregnancy. nevadans for reproductive freedom, which launched the protection for the ballot says, a simple majority vote could overturn the current law and make way for a more restrictive ban in the state, so i constitutional amendment is necessary to strengthen abortion protections. the supreme court decision to roll back the decision to an abortion, six states, ohio, kentucky, vermont, and kansas gave the power to the vaulter, allowing them to weigh in on constitutional amendments regarding abortion protections in their state. besides favoring abortion access has failed to pass and everything will state. up to 11 more states have confirmed or are considering ballot measures. it is clear abortion access will be a top motivating factor this upcoming election and voters in several states will have the opportunity to decide for themselves. you know what happens when you give people the power of democracy? they tend to use it. it. to give your teeth a dentist clean feeling. start with a round brush head. add power. and you've got oral-b. round cleans better by surrounding each tooth to remove 100% more plaque. for a superior clean. oral-b. brush like a pro. auntie, you can't put that right in the dishwasher. watch me. with cascade platinum plus i have upped my dish game. i just scrape... load... and i'm done. in that dishwasher? in that dishwasher. only platinum plus is packed with more dawn to remove up to 100% of grease and food residue. get the highest standard of clean, even in your machine. clean enough for ya? yeah. scrape, load, done. cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. the american library association's annual conference is underway in san diego this week, which is why i am here. every year, the conference invites libraries and library professionals from across the country and around the world to meet and take part in development programs, lectures, and roundtable conversations. i can imagine what it must have been like in years past. it was a forum to discuss the power of literature, new ways to engage children with books, how to make libraries better, probably an overwhelmingly positive meeting of minds and celebration of a noble community serving profession. this year, though, and for the past two years, there has been an emphasis on the rise and censorship in libraries and an acknowledgment in increasing danger that libraries and librarians face. due to rapid book bans and the war on literature, librarians are under constant attack. they face constant denigration to their character, threats to their public safety, and even their lives. this is happening across the country. in fact, lots of parts of the world, but america is ground zero for it. libraries, which is once a sacred and great part of our community are facing a similar treatment. emily drew pinsky released a report on the state of libraries in 2024 writing in part quote, these are not ordinary times. the oppressive wave of censorship intensifies, particularly in our public libraries. adverse legislation that would undermine library and agency and authority is getting a hearing in legislations across the country. in these extraordinary times, libraries take action, end quote. librarians are not willing soldiers in this. librarians should not be battlefield, and they are. we all need to take action alongside librarians. our democracy depends on it. after this break, i will be joined by emily drabinski, president of the library association live from the group's annual conference . 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(♪♪) (♪♪) try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. dave's company just scored the try dietary supplements from voltaren, comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. today's session of the "velshi" an book club is underway. joining me now, emily drabinski of the library association. good morning. i will see you very shortly. we are in the same city. you are in the final stretch of the home of the american library association. other of this year you published an article in the library's magazine, reflecting on your time at the ala. i want to quote from it. you said, proud to lead a democratic organization one where many can take the voice or the gavel. of course, voting is only one expression of democracy. democracy means cultivating institutions that enable all of us to have the capacity and opportunity to shape our collective future well beyond the ballot. in that, i suspect you are hinting that libraries are central to the preservation of democracy. as a lifelong library card holder, i haven't thought about that until you and i first talked about this a couple of years ago.>> year, i just got out of a tour van driving across the country to our annual meeting here in san diego. in every community, we saw libraries and library workers meeting the needs of the people living in cities, towns, everywhere from the sty in brooklyn, new york, all the way to mann, west virginia, a tiny town of 700 in cold country. everywhere i went, libraries are meeting the needs of people in their communities and expanding access to public goods, public square, public resources, and the collective power we all need to shape our future. >> you and i talked, when we first talked, i said the great thing about the "velshi" ban but club, we have these authors on, i buy the books, lots of people buy the books, and their sales numbers shoot up, even if someone released years ago. you said that might be a naove way because when the book ban succeeds, they succeed in libraries and schools were in many places kids and people with limited resources can't get access to them. >> for many people across the country, the classroom and library are the only place they can get books. when we remove from collections, it diminishes access from the most vulnerable people in our community. it is not enough to simply say, one can buy a book. buying a book is great if you have got cash, an email address, credit card number whatever you need to purchase a book. for huge parts of this country, that simply does not equal access. >> one of the other things you told me that i repeat all the time is, you pointed out that as a librarian, there are entire genres of books you don't like, that you are just not interested in. >> no fantasy. >> but that is not your problem . right, but that is not your problem. you will not limit access to books just because either you don't like the subject matter, or you don't like the author, or you don't like the words in the book. that is just not what libraries exist for. >> we are rooted in this kind of radical notion that the library is for everyone and the library loans to everyone. i was talking with a librarian, trista mckenzie, in a tiny town outside of topeka, kansas, rossville. she was talking about the work she does making sure everyone that comes into the library believes it is their own. i can't think of another institution that is dedicated and committed to understanding and making them understand that the library belongs to them. that sense of safety, blogging, the world is yours, and the libraries work hard to make sure you can access the parts that you want to, that is the real mission of libraries. what we are celebrating here in san diego, this weekend. >> let's talk the link between libraries and politics. there are states that are distancing themselves, believe it or not, from the american library association, which is weird. libraries should have never been a politicized matter. they are calling it radical. in georgia, passing a bill in the state that would all but cut ties with the american library association. talk to me more about this and the consequences of politicizing this discussion. >> you know, i think libraries are one of several american institutions that have been facing the same kinds of attempts to undermine their capacity to deliver public services and public good. i think the politicization is incredible, absolutely. more than that, it is more that regrettable. when i go into a library, like the library i visited in page, arizona where the librarian and her team worked to provide food to those in her communities, a weekend backtrack program that feeds, not only the people in page, but many families on the navajo nation, that is what families are doing and there is nothing political about that work. in idaho, where they are facing very intense legislation that limits their agency and autonomy as professionals. she was telling me that, what she worries about over the weekend is people in her community, children having enough to eat. that is what librarians are thinking about and worried about right now. >> or they are giving people financial literacy, language skills, job skills. libraries are community centers as much as repositories for books. on the other side to this discussion, emily, that is, it has politicized people that don't think they are in power. there are people going out there making sure they have a library card, making sure they are supporting their libraries. in some cases in this country, running candidates in slates of city councils, or school board trustees who have been banning books. this has become the gateway, the entry point to a whole lot of people who are frustrated with some of these nonsensical war politics. >> there is everything about the library that is concrete. you can check out a book, take it home, everything is super real. when we think, i can't be the only person who wakes up with a sense of despair some mornings in this country now. when you wake up and think, what can i do to change the world? one of the things you can do to change the world is use your library and support it. >> emily, amazing. good to see you. thank you for being with us. i am looking forward to spending time with a whole lot of librarians this weekend. emily drabinski, president of the library association and dear friend of the "velshi" book club. thanks for san diego for hosting me this weekend. i will be back tomorrow morning from 10:00 to noon eastern. do not forget, the podcast, follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcast. also catch "velshi" content on youtube. head to msnbc.com/alley . stay where you are. are. and i'm katie phang live from telemundo studios in miami, florida. here is the week that was. >> two years after the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. >> a major decision from the supreme court yesterday that clears the way for now for emergency abortions in the state of idaho. >> the