Transcripts For MSNBCW Chris 20240626

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it is good to be back with you in this second hour of chris jansing reports. at this hour, breaking news. a supreme court document on a closely watched abortion case gets posted early by mistake. what it says about procedures when the life of the mother is at risk. the destructive flooding sweeping through south dakota and other parts of the midwest. entire neighborhoods under water after record rain. in minnesota, a home teetering at the edge of a failing dam collapses into a river. unbelievable footage there. also ahead, an nbc news investigation. the search here in the u.s. for more than 50 migrants with ties to an isis smuggling network. and a legal saga that began more than a decade ago. wikileaks founder julian assange with a clenched fist to clears as he steps off the plane a free man. our nbc reporters are following all the latest developments. we start with the supreme court and this document that was not supposed to be posted today on emergency abortions. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin is here. we don't know if this will be the decision the supreme court will ultimately issue. if it holds, what could it mean going forward? >> if this decision ends up, if this document ends up being close to or exactly the decision of the court, chris, this is a 6-3 decision where six justices are saying the decision to even hear the case out of idaho regarding the collision between idaho's very restrictive abortion statute and the treatment and labor act which allows for abortion care necessary to stabilize a patient, that decision would be that the, reviewing the case was not something even that the supreme court should have done. that would kick it back down to the ninth circuit court of appeal. the injunction would still be in place meaning idaho's law could not be in effect as it conflicts with federal law demanding treatment for women who need emergency abortion care. could it live to see another day? absolutely. all the court would be saying was, we did wrong in deciding that we were going to skip the emergency -- the interim appellate court and take the case ourselves. we'll go back down. start over again. you can go through the ordinary appellate process and that is what the document that bloomberg has obtained, they say, shows. >> thank you. turning now to the devastating flooding wreaking havoc across the midwest right now, what do you see in there, shaq? >> reporter: we do know that the water here in south dakota and iowa is receding. so somewhat good news. we're getting a better picture of the extent of the damage and just how widespread it is. you see the house over there. it is pretty much collapsed there. take a look at this video from the air. when you see how widespread it is, the entire community completely devastated. i spoke to a gentleman who said he was one of the last people to be rescued from that neighborhood. just listen to what he described his experience was. >> i heard, i had power until 12:20 when i heard the first house collapse into the lake. then the power went out and i laid there all night hearing the houses collapse into the lake. >> reporter: what was that like in. >> it was insane. it sounded like a war zone. i woke up at 10:00. there was an air boat and i looked to the left and a quarter of my yard, a big sinkhole was forming. >> reporter: he's describing what he faced in those overnight hours between sunday into monday. look at some cell phone video that he shot of what he saw in front of his house. his street looking like a river. look how fast that water is. how quickly that is moving there. that is what so many people thought could be happening. we talk about the historic levels of flooding. meanwhile, officials in minnesota are still watching that rapidam dam. the dam at risk of complete failure. officials are saying that it is unlikely at this point that you have that kind of catastrophic failure, they're not making plans for massive evacuations. they're saying the soil around the dam continues to erode. we saw that collapse of a house just yesterday. there is the potential of a business there to fall into the river. officials are just waiting for that water to slow down. then they can go clean up the debris. when you look at the forecast as we get into tomorrow and friday, there is more rain on the way. the heaviest of it further south from where we are right now. any rain could have an impact on these rivers when they're already still swollen to those historic levels, chris. >> thank you. now to our nbc news investigation. dozens of migrants with potential ties to an isis-linked smuggling network released into the u.s. nbc's julia ainslie is following this for us. there's still a search to find some of them. what can you tell us? >> we're learning more by the hour, this is something the fbi and dhs have been concerned about. either isis-linked overseas in central asia in countries like uzbekistan, tajikistan. they will eventually get across the border. because more than 400 migrants came to the u.s. with the help of that network with isis affiliations, isis now looking to arrest many of them out of an abundance of caution. it's not known why those people came here. they say as far as the more than 150 that they've arrested, they have not found anyone who had a terror plot or came to the united states with the intent of carrying out a terror operation. but there are more than 50 where their whereabouts are unknown. i.c.e. doesn't know where they are. and to point out the immigration charges, not terrorism charges, that's basically the lowest hanging fruit they can have to get these people off the streets. find out more information. in many cases, see that they're deported quickly. >> thank you. wikileaks founder julian assange is back in australia today and a free man. nbc's ryan riley has more for us. what's next for him after this plea deal? >> i think he'll have to raise a lot of money to fund what this operation took. the jet that brought him from london where he was released from the high security prison to the northern mariana islands for the brief hearing yesterday. they took him wednesday morning there, late last night for us on the eastern, on est time. he has now landed in australia. and after almost 15 years now, this is really the end of the saga. he was originally held because of charges that were later dropped involving sexual assault and then he, of course, was inside of the embassy, the ecuadorean embassy in london for a number of years. he was held in that london prison for the last five years after charges were brought during the trump administration against him. this is a case that will have wider implications because of the espionage charges and what the charges could exactly mean for publishers going forward. obviously, wikileaks has a lot of differences between wikileaks and the standard news organization. in the law, making the distinctions is a little bit difficult. where do you draw the lines? what is a legitimate news organization? what is an entity that is publishing the raw data as security officials would say, that puts lives at risk? that information that was released. the hundred or thousands of pages of documents that were released by wikileaks had to do with the war in afghanistan, iraq, and the documents in connection with the guantanamo bay detainee. so a lot of that was on the internet more than 15 years ago. now it's all wrapped up here. >> we see his reunion with his wife. they haven't spent much time together since they got married. thank you. coming up in 90 seconds, how donald trump really feels about doing a debate with no audience. stay right here. with no audien. stay right here. healthy diet... listen to your heart. talk to your doctor about repatha. repatha plus a statin lowers ldl-c (bad cholesterol) by 63%, and drops the risk of having a heart attack. do not take repatha if you are allergic to it. repatha can cause serious allergic reactions. signs include trouble breathing or swallowing or swelling of the face. most common side effects include runny nose, sore throat, common cold symptoms, flu or flu-like symptoms, back pain, high blood sugar, and redness, pain, or bruising at the injection site. talk to your doctor about repatha. 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this until a decision is formally released in this case. that has really been the standard operating procedure for the biden administration as we have seen a multitude of the supreme court decisions in recent weeks. they usually weigh in once officially those are posted and they are able to digest the actual opinion and they can read all the details and then offer their own perspective on it. now, with regard to this particular case, the white house has weighed in on what they view should be the decision here, if it were up to them which it's not in terms of what they would like to see with regard to abortion access and granting these potential emergency abortions in idaho and other states because president biden and vice president harris have talked repeatedly about the real need here for these decisions to be made between women and their doctors and not because of different states, varying laws, and really having that different assortment. we can also look, chris, to a couple of years ago when there was the leaked opinion of, of course, the dobbs decision. what eventually was that and the overturning of roe v. wade to the fact that at that moment, it wasn't an official release, the white house didn't comment in a formal capacity initially. but there was a larger gap in time between when that news broke and the actual decision came down. in this case, it's more likely that we'll see this turn around pretty quickly even this week so the white house is waiting for that before they say anything further. >> so as she points out a couple years ago, here we were, covering the leak of the dobbs decision. today we're covering the accidental disclosure of this document. i have a couple of questions for you. what does this mean for the reputation of the court? the questions it may raise for some people? also, the timing. there is a debate tomorrow where abortion is a huge issue in this country and particularly for the biden white house. >> well, in raw political terms, chris, there are folks on the biden campaign that were hoping for a different decision out of idaho. they would never say it on the record because it puts people's lives at risk but there was certainly, it certainly makes the case they want to make a lot cleaner and easier when it come to judges and that issue. in some ways, this would take, if this ruling is indeed one that is released tomorrow morning, for all we know, maybe they were never planning on doing it tomorrow morning but they will now. given that they've already perhaps shown something we don't know for sure. but what i keep, i'm personally not surprised by this ruling. it seems to fit a new pattern we've seen throughout the last year and a half, i would argue, in this supreme court. that there is really a conservative majority but there is a 3-3-3 distinction between this court. you do have a center right group of conservatives, roberts, barrett, and kavanaugh, that do move back and forth. right? if you move, they don't vote with the harder right conservatives. they didn't in the missouri case. and we didn't get the full note but i'm willing to bet, it's a 6-3 in the idaho situation as well. >> yeah. and i wonder if it is not a situation where, again, if you are team biden and you're trying to put together something to say about this, the uncertainty that has been created in reality. they give example after example, versus what donald trump actually says has been the net result which is everybody was happy about this. this solves the problem. when in fact what we're seeing is what the court is facing, these questions that continue to come up. >> and it keeps coming back up. i don't know if this ruling at all changes that debate, right? it is still, the fact of the matter is, the second they ruled on dobbs, they thought they were washing their hands of reproductive rights issues. not at all. they've just made it so probably every supreme court term for the next ten years is going to have a case related to dobbs. >> okay. chuck, stick around. monica, thank you. we want to talk more about the debate. donald trump summing up his debate strategy in two words. >> i think i've been preparing for it for my whole life, if you want to know the truth. i'm not sure you can lock yourself into a room for two weeks or one week or two days and really learn what you have to know. i've been through it. he's practicing how the stand or something. standing. and let's see what happens. i hope everybody does well. i hope we all come out as a nation. but our nation's in trouble. >> von hilliard is there. and the white house press secretary. sarah, based on your time in the trump white house, do you think his comments suggest that he's confident or worried going into tomorrow night? >> it what we've seen from trump and his campaign shows that he actually is a little bit nervous about what will happen tomorrow. look. his campaign and him and his surrogates have been all out there saying joe biden will come out and be jacked up on drugs or mountain dew or energy drinks. i think that they know that biden had a really strong performance, particularly in 2020 during that very first debate. there was wide consensus that biden won. so they're trying to set the bar a little bit higher which is quite difficult, though, when it seem like they set the bar so low for biden when they constantly attacked him for his mental acutie. if biden shows up and looks engaged tomorrow night, he'll have a strong performance. i know that trump and his team are worried about that. >> there was an interview with byron york. here's what byron said about not having an audience for this debate. quote, you have no audience to read. to me, the the audience is easier because it's telling you what is going on indirectly with applause or not applause. this room is a sterile, dead room, which i guess is what they want. this is going to be interesting. we've all watched donald trump and how he feeds off a crowd reaction from people. even when i've seen him, and von, you know this when you're in a scrum with a bunch of people around him. he feeds off that energy of the crowd. i'm wondering what you make of his comments and what you're expecting from that tomorrow night. >> well, look, i sort of feel like he gave away how he, his version of populism which is, he waits to see what gets applause and then he doubles down and says it. like he needs an instant poll. in a weird way, that's what he's admitting. i need a poll to find out if that's a good line or a bad line, working or not working. so i think it says more about how he perhaps, how he views policy debates on that front. look. this to me is the real risk for team biden. they so want to have a different experience than the last debate they had with him or the first debate from the last cycle. ironically, that's the single best debate biden had, right? because trump's behavior really sort of almost cemented biden's lead by that point and it may have done trump in at that point. now here's the biden campaign trying to come up with a set of rule to make sure trump seems more presentable? when you sort of look at their motivation here, and given the experience they had four years ago, it's a head scratcher to me that they went so out of their way to try to create an environment that will make trump seem more presidential. >> yeah. all right. there's another wild card out there. nbc news reports that trump's vp announcement could come this week. what do we know about the thinking around the timing? is there any chance it happens before the debate? >> right. he's consistently suggested he would make this announcement closer to the convention which starts july 15th, less than three weeks from now, in milwaukee, wisconsin. sources are telling nbc news that decision could come at any moment. potentially today, tomorrow, who knows? at the debate. it's an open-ended question. for donald trump part of the successes suspense, of course, mike pence won't be his vice president for term number two. we refer to the list as the bench. in which he says there are plenty of good options. he had the conversation with his long-time adviser, corey lewandowski. it is that top tier. we're told that folks should be dismissing others including the likes of former secretary ben carson who is actually here in atlanta right now. he's with byron donalds, the congressman out of florida, at a black american's businessman's roundtable. and donald trump actually called the cell phone of byron donalds and talked to the crowd that was there for a couple minute over a speaker phone. for donald trump, i don't think it is worth closing the door on anybody. it has been clear, the ones making the tv rounds. when you're looking at what donald trump is looking for, somebody that will be loyal and fiercely defensive of him. so i think over the next three weeks, you will potentially see this come into stark contrast. >> we've seen what happens when people turn against him. and we have reported here at nbc that joe biden has been studying up on issues that will trigger trump. and i wonder what you think most likely will do that. will he be disciplined? or are there things that could end up going viral in the negative for donald trump? is it the 2020 election? is it abortion? what do you think? in terms of trying to get under his skin. >> i think probably the top two things, if i'm the biden campaign. i would be advising president biden on to target trump. it would be saying, going after him for the 2020 election if he accepts the results of it. obviously, trump has a hard time doing that. i think his ego, he can't accept it. the smarter move would be for trump to pivot away from it. i can see him taking the bait on that front. and then going after him for being a convicted felon. i can see trump taking the bait on that one and maybe lobbing against joe biden that list own son was convicted recently. and i think that that plays into biden's favor because it goes to show that there is an equal system. justice. and also, i think during the debates in 2020, trump attacked biden for hunter being an addict. and that honestly led to biden bringing out his father's side. and i think that it was a moment with the american people where they saw how good of a dad he is. and it actually curried more favor with him with sympathy for loot of families out there can relate to that struggle. so if they decide to go down that route and trump decides to kind of go after hunter biden in a counter attack, i can see that actually backfiring on him. >> we've heard a lot from folks who have debated both these guys. andrew yang said he thinks biden's weakness was that he didn't always conclude thoughts authoritatively which sometimes made it seem like his train of thought wasn't complete or he was trailing off. of course, those debates were nearly five years ago. from your observations, and i don't know if there is a presidential candidate who has done more debates than joe biden over the years, over the course of the times that he's run. what is the pothole for him? >> look, peak joe biden was 2007 and '08. all during those primary debates with obama and clinton, to me, he was the clear winner of those debates. because his campaign wasn't a major campaign, it was always dismissed. well, you know, he's the senator, he's most well-versed, he's the most experienced. it was written off. he's been there before. let's really see how hillary over obama was. it was like he was scored separately. that joe biden was very disciplined. he needed to push back on the notion that he was talked too much. i thought he was an effective debater against paul ryan and sarah palin. he's really good at moving message. this version is not the same guy. i don't think he's as nimble. >> and these opponents are not the same opponents. >> they're not. so you know, look, i just think that, i think, i'm expecting a less -- i'm expecting both candidates to be a bit more risk averse. big picture, both campaigns are feeling really confident this week. i say this week but the biden campaign sees progress. the trump campaign feel like it is on a winning trajectory. whenever you have that going into a debate, it usually means you'll have a more polite debate than you would expect. >> we shall see. a little more than 24 hours from now. thanks to all of you. coming up, the late season primaries where both progressives and donald trump lost big. steve kornacki at the big board with results. e big board with results ng with the mask and the hose. inspire? inspire is a sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body with a click of this button. where are you going? i'm going to get inspire. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all 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frustration with politics is pushing many voters back to the middle. telling congress essentially, it's time to stop fighting. get something done. steve kornacki is at the big board for us. >> let's start. in new york race that got so much attention. george latimer beating jamaal bowman with just about all the votes in right now. there are two parts to this district. the vast majority is in this section. this is westchester county. the suburbs of new york city. and a very small sliver down here. a little part of the bronx is in there, too. the basic issue for bowman, he had about 85% of that district but westchester county is a much different story for him. he had trouble in his two previous primaries. so before the all the controversy with bowman, he already had some political issues in westchester county and i think everything that happened over the last six months to a year simply exacerbated that. new rochelle, westchester county, basically, accounts for that. so he becomes the third incumbent to lose a pending result with bob goode. the other big story last night, we'll zoom out here and go to the rocky mountains here on the republican side. i'm going to take you to eastern colorado where lauren boebert won. this is that the district she represents. she currently represents the third district, western colorado. a very close call for boebert in her 2022 election race. less than 1,000 votes. she read the writing on the wall and said i want to go to safe republican territory. this district here, trump won it by almost 20 points. it is much more red. and boebert wins last night. why did she win? a major reason, you can see it here. a long list of candidates in a split opposition. she only gets 43%. that's about what bowman got in new york. because there are so many other candidates here, that's enough for her to easily win this race. >> thank you so much, steve. with me now, democratic strategist and former executive director for the new york state democratic party, also an msnbc reporter. i think it was $14.5 million. they were not happy with what they considered to be his strongly antiisrael stance. the most expensive house race. >> there are two things you can pull out of it. it is fairly basic. a lot of democrats said he didn't read the room. jamaal bowman did not read the room. it is archly a suburban district. it is 40% white. the median income is nick,000. the bronx overall, 21,000. you can see it is somewhat of an outlier. it is a largely suburban district made up of dems who really support the party but are moderate dems. as are the voters of public. so i don't think over a period of time bowman's politics would have really worked where that district is being drawn. i think the second message in all of this is, if you look at what democrats are doing across the country in suburban districts, it is holding the line. that's what has gotten them win. and they believe that's a good strategy going forward. >> we've been hearing about how the middle is dead. a lot of that had to do with republicans who say they don't recognize their party anymore and have chosen to not run for re-election. there's a handful but do you think they are sending the message. enough already with the extremes. work. do your job. >> i think that's part of the message. on the other side of that, however, is how do you get these young voters to invest in the party going forward? that's a conversation that does need to happen. i think what democrats are counting on, in this election cycle, if you were to create a very specific electoral coalition to get joe biden to win, this is what we need to do going forward just to get over this hurdle. >> so there will be another data point which will come from corey bush. another member of the squad who still has the primary. what many people consider a tough opponent with the st. louis county prosecuting attorney, wesley bell. what will you be watching for? >> i'll be really watching the same thing. is there some movement? is it in part because there are party leaders that want more movement to the middle and are putting resources behind these more moderate candidates? if you go back and think about jones. he left the squad to go support bowman's challenger in that race. because he's got to get through a general election in a state where democrats need to reclaim some of those seats. i think as you look at the pockets across the country, as we discussed, there are some voter movement toward the middle. the party leadership is saying we've got to start showing the kind of unanimity that you see coming from the leadership in congress and that's how they'll move forward. >> always great to see you. welcome back from vacation. does he look well rested? yes, he does. coming up, an american journalist wrongfully detained in russia on trial for espionage in a country where the conviction rate is 99%. what does it mean for efforts to bring evan gershkovich home? g e? with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? (vo) if you have graves' disease, your eye symptoms could mean something more. that gritty feeling can't be brushed away. even a little blurry vision can distort things. and something serious may be behind those itchy eyes. up to 50% of people with graves' could develop a different condition called thyroid eye disease, which should be treated by a different doctor. see an expert. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com broouls. we now have a copy of the supreme court document that was accidentally posted online again. we don't know if this is an upcoming decision, a draft or neither. legal correspondent lisa rubin is back with me. bloomberg said it was posted on the website and converted to a pdf by bloomberg. he said this they've made no style or textual changes. >> this doesn't look like a slip opinion. it is not formatted in the same way slip opinions are. >> what is a slip opinion? >> it is an opinion that comes out from the supreme court before it is formally published. it has a particular type face, for example, to it. it usually also has some proceeding description of the case and a short summary of the holding. here that short summary is not necessarily needed. this is what is called a procuriem decision. that means it is for the court as a whole. it is not signed by any particular justice. we can deduce from the rest of the document that there are six justices who join in that, and it is a single sentence, chris, saying that the writ was improv dentally granted. meaning the writ of certiori was improperly granted. >> none of that makes sense to anyone not a lawyer. >> that's correct. the rest of the text that bloomberg has shared with the general public is concurring opinions and dissending opinions. let's go back to what it mean to be improv dentally granted. the decision to improve this case with you a he have rare one. usually a decision that reaches the supreme court goes through a federal district court. it then goes to a federal appeals court and then the party that is dissatisfied with the ruling petitions for what we call a cert petition. only about five to six dozen cases are granted. and it did so here but by bypassing that appeals court in the meantime. this decision, or rather the review of this, was granted in what is called cert before judgment. idaho went to the supreme court and said we don't like this injunction of our law. we have an appeal pending with the ninth circuit. we want you to enjoin the injunction of our law. make it go away. let us enforce our law and take the case directly. don't make us go through months and years of appellate proceedings. we want a clear answer now. at least four justices had to have said yes to that to grant certiori. now saying we improperly granted the case. that's a fancy way of saying, oops, we shouldn't have taken it. first, wasn't an emergency. or it didn't even deserve our review in the first place. you have a bunch of different opinions from the different justices expressing their views. justice barrett has a concurrence in here. what she says is based on the party's representations and their briefs in that oral argument, it's not clear to me that the injunction will stop idaho from enforcing its abortion law and the vast majority of circumstances. idaho represents the exception is broader than the it is fears. and the united states represents that the law at issue here, it is narrower than idaho fears. >> let me ask you. real world implications if this is indeed a decision -- >> if there is a decision, the real world implications are cut to the quick by justice jackson who writes in her own conoccurrence, it's not a victory for pregnant patients in idaho. it is delay. while this court dawdles and the country waits, it remains in a precarious position as their doctors are kept in the dark about what the law requires. she clarifies. there will be a few months. maybe even a few years during which doctors may no longer need to airlift pregnant patients out of idaho as you were discussing earlier in your show. but from justice jackson's perspective, this is just a question of when. not if this case will reach the court again. the court is saying, we made a mistake. we shouldn't have taken review prematurely. it was a police take to do that and we'll send it back down to the lower courts. idaho's law will remain enjoined. if a pregnant woman in idaho needs an abortion to prevent serious harm to her health, she will be able to get one. that will last forever? no. this will come back to the supreme court or one of the other six states that have other serious restrictions. >> it almost certainly will come back, right? >> correct. i want to liken there to the mifepristone ruling. the standing about lou is entitled to bring a suit in the first place. you're seeing this court kick the can down the road on particularly abortion, and having a vast majority of the court. this will be a 6-3 decision saying, we shouldn't have heard these cases on the first line principles of when a dispute gets to come before the court. here, there's not enough to skip. and in the mifepristone suit, the people injured weren't injured enough. >> meantime, people will have to wait. there are new questions about the fate of american reporter evan gershkovich after his trial on espionage charges began today in russia. vladimir putin has said he is open to a deal to exchange gershkovich for a russian citizen in western custody. the kremlin insists that can only happen after a verdict. over the coming weeks, gershkovich will be tried behind closed doors on charges the u.s. government says are bogus. media was allowed in the room for a brief moment today where we saw gershkovich in a glass cage with a shaved head. at times smiling and nodding to his colleagues. joining us now, msnbc national and security intelligence analyst. okay. he has been detained in russia for 15 months now. is this a first step for getting his release? or just russia with another show? >> i think you're right. this will sound counter intuitive. what vladimir putin wants to do is have this trial go forward. let's be clear. this is a sham. these are ridiculous charges. most likely evan will be tried and convicted for espionage and it could be a pretty jarring 20-year sentence. the way these things work out, the russians will want a deal after the trial is over. so it is counter intuitive but perhaps we're closer to a resolution. the real question is what can, what does russia want in return? there is a russian intelligence assassin in jail in germany for a very well publicized case. the question is will the germans cooperate? and i'm sure there are some ongoing discussions in the bilateral relationship. it might be tough for the germans to sell to their public research leasing an assassin. this is just a terrible ordeal. the images of evan with his head shaved behind the glass cage. that was pretty tough to see. >> yeah. putin has discussed there is someone he considers worthy of the trade. biden got a lot of criticism for trading a notorious russian arms dealer for britney griner in, what was that? '22? is there anything that you observed from that that might inform where this might be going? presidents have serious decisions to make. one of them is what kind of deal they would be willing to make. biden received some criticism but they do this. the president does this with his eyes wide open. when it come to the comments of president trump, some of the things. he said i'll get him out after the election. that assumes evan will be held in custody for many months. it also suggests there's some strange relationship that trump enjoys with putin. immoral. a little distasteful. ultimately i do think gershkovich will be released. the big question is will the it is be able to convince the germans to cooperate? >> it is worth noting at least a dozen americans in russian jails. a woman accused of donating $51 to a clarity that helped ukraine. these arrests have been increasingly common as relations between washington and moscow have plummeted. how tricky is this for the biden administration? they're balancing different cases. ultimately, decisions are made about what may be seen as prioritizing one case over another. talk about how incredibly complicated this is. >> the individuals who work on the hostage cases, and i know some of them. those individuals are in the white house. the president of the united states. these are issues of life and death for many of the families and the family members. it really weighs on them. ultimately, you're right. some people are prioritizing. paul wheeling, the former marine, has been in custody for years and years in russia. and i think his family is getting frustrated as well. so the problem with this is that individuals who get taken in russia, which is not a safe place for americans, you know, they are americans, they are su to these whims of vladimir putin. and they are almost pawns in a much bigger game. hopefully we'll see them relieved. the u.s. government tries every single day to do this in my administration. and americans held hostages is something the government takes seriously. it's certainly difficult for those investigation officials involved because they see thooem people in their lives and family members affected by this. >> mark, thank you. swimming legend and 23-time olympic gold medalist michael phelps is warning congress today athletes are losing faith in the world antidoping agency before the paris olympics and that could impact the future of competition. >> i never have felt like i was competing in a clean field. honestly, i think if we continue to let this slide any farther, the olympic games might not even be there. this has to change. it has to change now. >> the testimony by phelps and four-time gold medalist allison smith follow revelations that 23 chinese swimmers tested positive for a banned substance before the tokyo games, but they didn't face any punishment. i'm beginning to bring in michael smith who reports on this. realistically, what could come of this hearing? >> what could come of this hearing is that congress may cut its funding to the umbrella organization that's supposed to ensure that there's a level playing field at the olympics and monkeypox elite athletes. congress is a huge funder of that organization. but more significantly, the united states continues to put a lot of pressure on the chinese that there are 11 swimmers headed to this summer's olympics who did test positive for this drug several years ago, a few of them won gold medals at the last olympics and will be competing again at this olympics and they have never faced sanction for that. >> what's going to happen when they dive into the water again? >> that's what phelps was testifying about yesterday. if you're a fan at home or if you're an athlete on the blocks, there's real questions about whether the athletes next to you had been using performance-enhancing drugs. one of the central tenants of olympic sports and sports in general is that cheating is frowned upon. doping is frowned upon because everyone wants to think it's a level playing field. that everyone is operating on the up and up. and when you sit there as a fan and you watch this, what they were testifying about, is this system that was set up to police sports working? this is not just a story about chinese swimmers who tested positive and the fact that they went on to win medals. it's also a story that raises questions about the institution, the world antidoping agency this, agency that's supposed to be there to police sports. are they doing their job? and american antidoping officials have essentially said they are not. >> but didn't the olympic chair endorse the world doping agency's handling of this? >> the world antidoping agency defended the way they handled this. they said they had no choice. they took the chinese at their word. the chinese said that this was a prescription heart drug that made it sba the kitchen of a hotel where the swimmers are staying at and made its way into the athlete's food. this is a prescription heart drug that is usually never found in food. there are some performance-enhancing drugs that occasionally show up in it food. this is not one of them that has a history of that. and there has never been an explanation from the chinese about why it was that there was a prescription heart medication in the kitchen, how it got there, and how it got into the athlete's food. and the athletes -- this was all in secret until we reported about it in april. in the wake of that, there's been a lot of fallout. one aspect of the fall was the hearing last night. >> so let me just ask you, we have 30 seconds left, but did you get from listening to the questions or maybe even more importantly the comments from members of congress that they think this is something serious that they are going it try to do something about it? >> i was surprised by a few things about the hearing. one, it was a house hearing and republicans and democrats were on the same page. they seemed to be viewing the issue the same way. it was pretty remarkable, in and of itself. they all seemed to think there needs to be more accountable for wada. they want to -- they talked about the idea of conditioning the money they give to wada. the united states is the country that contributes the most to the budget. they want wada to release all the documents about this. they want wada to be subject to an audit. they were throwing this around. and how congress funds thing is a complicated thing, but there seemed to be a surprising level of uniformity amongst the lawmakers about how they view this and how outraged they were. >> michael, always great reporting. thank you for coming on the program. appreciate it. that's going to do it for us this hour. join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday here on msnbc. i'll be from atlanta these hours tomorrow in our coverage continues now with katy tur reports, next. s now with katy t reports, next. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. looking for a smarter way to mop? 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