we will take a closer look at how they can reshape the race for 2024 and what it takes to prepare for the ultimate wildcard that is donald trump. former biden aide megan hayes is here to walk us through the historic showdown. one heartbeat. donald trump says he has chosen his vice presidential running mate, and that person could be at thursday's debate. i will talk about the possible contenders going full maga right now with my sendoff panel. and the fight ain't over. two years after the supreme court repealed the right to choose an abortion, democrats are turning their attention to an obscure 150-year-old law that could be a backdoor to a national abortion ban. tina smith is here to talk about her effort to reveal the comstock act. i am jonathan capehart. this is the sunday show. >> buckle up. this week could be a wild ride and a critical turning point in the race for the white house. on thursday in atlanta, president biden and donald trump will face off on the debate stage for the first time since october of 2020. that is actually the last time they have been in the same room. it will also be the first ever debate between a sitting president and a twice impeached former president was been convicted of felony crimes. the guy on the right. trump is also awaiting trial on three other federal indictments, in case were following along at home. and the pre-debate drama is building. last night at a rally in philadelphia, the disgraced former president repeated the ridiculous and false accusation that biden plans on using performance-enhancing drugs before the debate. >> so little before debate time, he gets a shot in the --, and that is -- want to strengthen him up. so he comes out. he will come out -- okay. i say he will come out all jacked up, right? >> for real? with nonsense like this, perhaps it's a good thing there are new debate rules that could rein him in. the 90 minute matchup will take place in a tv studio with no audience, and each candidate will have his microphone mutated until it is his turn to speak. but who are we kidding? you know, i know, we all know that a muted mic won't keep trump quiet. the biden campaign already seems to be preparing for that. >> who knows what donald trump is going to do it any minute or any time. i bet he's going to talk over the microphone 1 million times like he does because he is a bully. but the best way to fight a bully is to stand up to him. joe biden has done it before and he will do it again. >> he has, quote, no strategy for this debate except, to, quote, make america great again. translation -- i'm going to wing it. president biden is immersed at debate prep at camp david with advisers, including his personal attorney, bob power, will once again play trump in mock debates. in an interview with me yesterday, he described preparations as, quote, and attempt to really give the opponent a feel for what they would likely face. and if past is prologue, we know what to expect from trump -- utter chaos. like the kind that prompted this response from biden at a 2020 debate. >> vote now. >> make sure you in fact let people know -- >> i'm not going to answer the question -- >> the question is -- will you shut up? >> trump's annoying tactics are nothing new. back in 2016 during his second presidential debate against -- hillary clinton, trump's dr. around the stage like a malevolent land shark as she addressed voters. and his childlike behavior continued in their third debate, during a heated discussion about russian president vladimir putin. >> from everything i see, he has no respect for this person. >> will that's because he rather have a puppet as president. and it's pretty clear -- >> you are a puppet. >> so with that kind of petulant, unhinged behavior coming at you, how do you even begin to prepare? my next guest is the perfect person to answer this question. joining me now, former deputy assistant secretary of state and former spokesperson for senator hillary clinton. he also played donald trump and hillary clinton's 2016 mock debate session. welcome back to the sunday show. two things we need to talk about. first thing, this accusation that president biden is going to use performance-enhancing drugs, this is not new. trump me the same accusation against hillary clinton in 2016 . calling for her to take -- >> he did it after state of the union. the reason he is doing it is because he very stupidly, along with his campaign and the republican party and the right- wing at large, have gone with this talking point that joe biden can't stand up straight for 90 minutes. that is going to fall over at the podium. they are realizing that that is not actually a good thing to keep saying, because that's not what's going to happen. with a few days left, he's trying to do this 182 asked lane, he's going to be perky and really good. same exacting after the state of the union. they didn't think you would make it through 75 minutes. not only did he make it, he knocked it out of the park. >> so as we go, heading into thursday, and the president is at camp david and on breakdown and preparing. how has trump changed since you prepared hillary clinton for a debate? >> in 2016, i would start with the fact that his campaigns have changed, in the sense of what his message is. ultimately, a debate while it's in front of a large audience you will be speaking to during the general election campaign, should be consistent with what you are saying day today. fundamentally, he was talking about immigration, he was talking about obama care, jobs going south. obviously, he was attacking hillary left and right. there was a consistency between his debate performance and his campaign message. if you fast-forward to 2020, the guy had no message. he was just an angry, angry man. he was upset about russia. he was upset about covid. and you know, the shut up moment was well deserved, because he just was a malfunctioning appliance that was spewing all these things. so the question is, you know, some people say -- there's only one. he doesn't have a strategy. what he has is a list. he has a list of things that are always on his mind, always pent up, because you pointed out the really important part of this. they really don't like each other. inc. about how that works for someone you don't like. >> somebody i don't like? they are dead to me. >> is what he complained about in 2016, we complained about in 2020. is what he complains about now, his trials and being gagged, and i'm sure he's going to complain about being muted, pretending he didn't know. then there's a third bucket of policy. not that he has suddenly immersed himself in the minutia, i believe he thinks one way to go at the president is to throw numbers and data. that are probably lies. and just throw data at the wall, hoping that it overwhelms the president. that is what i would guess. the thing is, he doesn't have an order, so he doesn't know what comes out when. >> in an interview you did in politico in january of 2021, so in the lead up to, you know, something -- it talks about the lengths you went to prepare to be donald trump. you were three inch heels. you we're knee pads and a back brace. big suits and everything. and another thing you did after watching hours upon hours of tape of donald trump is that you noticed he never makes eye contact. and that with secretary clinton, and one debate session, you did not look at her for 5 straight hours. what was the significance of that? >> he is fundamentally a coward. i mean, if you look at mitch landry saying the way to do with a bully is to fight back, that is what he does. and part of that is, he has a hard time going at some of the personal stuff. in 2020, he went after the president about his brother and hunter on the conspiracy stuff and digressed into some other stuff. but generally, he is a coward. and he shies away from it. i think the president -- if you really want to understand, look at 2020, the first debate. it's going to be probably joe biden, similar. strong, vigorous, having stuff to state about what i've done for you, and what we are haven't had two presidents in 134 years tried to steal each other's job back and forth. and it's like a baton. they can shape these, they can present these, they can carve them in all sorts of ways. you could have the smartest economist up there, and -- the muting actually might help the moderators more than anyone, because it will give them a moment, or 90 seconds, to just retreat into silence. did he just say that about inflation? because i want to follow up on that. >> real fast, because we are out of time. or something else it was really interesting. he takes great pride in being able to predict what trump might say, do, or tweets before he does it. this is your former colleague saying it was uncanny watching you nail moments in debate before they happened. you still have that ability? >> i had an advantage, because i was a new yorker. it also in 2016, nobody was paying attention. he is the most predictable person. i think it's pretty safe to say he's going to complain about the muting situation, even though his campaign agreed to it, even though the moderators 20 minutes earlier will have said the campaign has agreed to this. it is easy to say what he is going to do, and there's things that, you know, if i were him, i would do that i don't want to say out loud. >> please don't. >> in the story as you saw, itself if i don't take my medication to fully channel him. >> one other thing that is mentioned in that interview from 2021 is that you pointed out to the campaign that he complained about his mic during his own campaign. >> is been doing that in primaries. he's been complaining about teleprompters recently. he has this thing about planning about technical aspects of his appearances as yet another way of being aggrieved. they are coming after me to jail me. they are muting me. what is joe afraid of? let me speak. >> i'm sure that's exactly what we are going to hear thursday night in atlanta. take you very much for coming to the sunday show. joining me now to continue this conversation, megan hayes, former special assistant and democratic strategist. welcome back to the sunday show. were going to shift gears a little bit. just wondering, how cognizant do you think the biden campaign is about the incumbents first debate curse? of course, i'm relating to president obama famously bombing his first debate against republican nominee mitt romney in 2012. you think folks gathered it camp david right now have that top of mind? >> i do. he hasn't debated in four years. so that's an advantage, but he hasn't debated in four years. the one thing about joe biden is he prepares and shows up on game day, he will show up and he will be -- he will put his best foot forward for a debate. >> how do you think the president will respond if donald trump goes in on hunter? because we are talking about an opponent who has no sense of shame, no sense of guilt. everything and everyone is fair game. >> i think that the president will have to take a deep breath. his family is deeply personal to him, but i think the president will handle it like he did in 2020. no family in this country is not been impacted by addiction. hunter was going through a terrible time when this gun incident happened. he is now convicted. the president has made it very clear what he will do and not do for hunter in his legal troubles. he can't let his temper get the best of them here to fight back as a father. he has to fight back as a president. >> great segue into what i was going to ask you next. should i expect to see president biden go on offense? he is running against a convicted felon. >> the president is notorious for not being bullied. that's part of who he is. he does not like when people are being bullied. i do think you will be on the offensive a little bit here, but he will push back any respect away. that's is not who he is. so, you know, he will be on the offense, but he also has a great record here you can highlight for the american people. >> as you well know, democrats default setting is panic. so do democrats have any reason to fear that president biden will not meet the moment on thursday? >> as someone who has worked for him for over a decade, i don't think so. i think he always shows up. the president has a great record to run on. he has a great vision for the next four years. but most people are democrats, and the democratic party is going to do what we are going to do. >> since they are so predictable at panic, anything that happens that is a mistake will be blown up and amplified. i'm just wondering, can president biden recover if he makes a mistake like forget a name or freezes or -- or something else that will send democrats into a panic? >> no. historically here, people, when the cameras are on you for 90 minutes, you are going to make mistakes. that is not a mistake that is going to decide this election moving forward. i think the mistake here is where president biden doesn't lay out his vision for the future and remind the american people what he's done for them. he needs to draw a contrast here. >> everyone is going to be watching the other guy, both camps watching the other guy to see if that person makes in take. who has the most to lose if they do make a mistake? >> i think president trump has a lot to lose here. he is a chaotic person. he was a chaotic president. the more he's going to remind people about how chaotic his presidency was, and i think that was a huge liability for former president trump. >> megan hayes is sticking around for sound off. still to come, the fight for reproductive rights. democrats were the trump use a 150-year-old law to ban abortion nationwide if he is elected again. i will speak with minnesota senator tina smith later in the show. but first, my sound off panelist here to talk about the latest news, including some of the contenders to be donald trump's running mate, trying to prove their loyalty, even though trump says he has already made his decision. don't go anywhere. more of a jampacked hour ahead on the sunday show. y show. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. you know what's brilliant? 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(vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. >> i think what you're going to see is obviously the cnn moderators going to do everything they can to go after president trump to try to get under his skin. >> tomorrow, i'm sending in a letter to president biden, to his physician and his entire cabinet. i'm going to be demanding on behalf of many millions of concerned americans right now that he submit to a drug test before and after this debate, specifically looking for performance-enhancing drugs. >> maybe these two dudes should go first. i was congressman byron donalds and congressman ronny jackson. an actual doctor parroting donald trump's dumb demand a president biden four days before their debate in atlanta. megan hayes is back with me, but also joining me, renee graham, associate editor for the boston globe, and stuart stevens, associate projector and the conspiracy to end america, why the old party is driving democracy to autocracy. thank you all very much for being here. renee, you go first. i would love your reaction to donald's -- okay. renee cannot hear us. stuart, i hope you can hear us. your reaction to the nonsense we just heard. >> i know a little bit about -- i wrote the infamous article where i took a bunch of performance-enhancing drugs. and i can tell you, i don't know what he's talking about. it's crazy. nothing like that is going to make you smarter or better or know more about the country or more likable. it is really -- it's a classic example of projection. i mean, this dr. with a dubious history of drug use, certainly, donald trump -- many articles and studies have been printed about his drug use during the apprentice. it's the oddest mascot stealing sort of level of debate that the president of the united states -- i think it just sort of shows what they have to talk about. >> and megan, what do you think? was ronny jackson the white house medic when you are at the white house? >> he was. but he oversaw the vice presidents office. i never dealt with ronnie. but i was going to say, it's rich coming from a man being investigated by the united states sanction for how he was giving up prescription drugs to people. it's also rich because this is a president who does not drink. to imply that he would then use drugs, it's something that's just a little bit out of bounds and a wild assumption here. i think they have to do anything to sort of lower expectations after everything they've been doing for the last couple of weeks. >> i'm assuming we still don't have renee back, but let's switch gears and talk about the debate. and let's listen to what mitch landry, senior adviser on the re-election campaign -- well, what he expects from the debate. watch this. >> it really doesn't matter how donald trump shows up. if he comes in unhinged like he is most of the time or sits there and is quiet, people know that he is a twice impeached convicted felon who has been found to have defamed somebody, sexually abused somebody, and got bankrupt six times. they will always know that. >> stephen, since people are going to know, does he mean that the president is going to go after donald trump in that stark of language? or is he talking about just all that information is out there for anyone who wants to? >> i think he's talking about the fact that, you know, these are facts. these are given. is nothing that's going to change when he walks out on the stage. personally, were i advising president biden, i would say he should go on the attack from the very beginning. whatever the first question is it comes to him, i will say, i will answer that question. but it's a disgrace to donald trump. 34 conviction villainy counts, he's on the stage running for president. this is the oval office we are talking about. it's a disgrace, but i will an