influence, which turns into political influence that china has over these post-soviet parts of the world. it really charges causes us to have a discussion in america on whether china is and very, or somewhere in between, and what our strategy looks like going forward. trump had some ideas about china, but he was so uncorrelated about it, it never emerged into anything meaningful . i worry about that all the time. the average american does not know what to think about china and our future. r future. >> i think the average american wants to make sure that china is not ripping us off, stealing our intellectual property, breaking trade rules. but i think the average t american knows that we have to coexist with china. they are going to be a big, powerful, rich country whether we like it or not. and the last thing the world wants and that americans want is a conflict with china. and i think we have overcorrected this country. we went from a policy of engagement with china, trying to work things out, to a huge pendulum swing towards confrontation. not just under trump, but also under biden. terrorists, restricting investment, restricting al technology, geopolitical competition. i think some of that was definitely necessary. we have now overcorrected. we are not going to, quote unquote, defeat china. they're going to get advanced technologies. they need to be part of the claimant solution. they need to be part of the regulation of artificial intelligence. and we need to be talking to them if we want to avoid a war in taiwan. so i think arwe need to shift from the confrontational mode we have been in to one of competitive coexistence here, where there is a negotiation as well as the competition taking place. >> let me ask you one other question. for those who don't concern themselves too much with foreign-policy, who are mostly concerned with domestic policy, there is an argument to be made when you look into history, en those countries that destroyed themselves domestically and had an influence on the world. i think about germany in the 1930s. domestic policy influences foreign-policy. the two are completely intertwined. they are not separate thoughts, and we probably have to tw stop thinking about them as separate thoughts. >> completely. i'd say for people who don't care about foreign policy, i re would say look. not only should we worry about wars, but the climate crisis, rs migration, technology, all of these things are inherently tied to what happens around the world. but importantly, the people who work on foreign-policy need to realize that politics really matters. foreign-policy is an extension of politics. you get the foreign-policy from a country based on what is d happening politically inside of it. the most important thing the in united states can do for global democracy and stability is to be more democratic and stable at home. we are getting in the world a reflection of what is happening in all of our respective a countries. so the number one thing i say at the end of this piece is the number one thing america can do is detox its own democracy. em that will reverberate on the world more than any foreign- policy. >> absolutely right. as i travel the world, all you hear about is people concerned r are greater about american stability than their own countries in the run politics. if we were just stable and we could just look like we had a reasonable future, that alone might add to global stability. what a great article, i really recommend everyone read it. it is a cover story in foreign affairs magazine. as always, pleasure to see you, ben rhodes joining us. he is a former deputy national security adviser to president obama and the cohost of the remarkable god save the world podcast, and author of after the fall, the rise of authoritarianism in the hour we made. another hour of velshi begins s right now. good morning, it is saturday , june 22nd with just 136 days and left until the general election. a decision in donald trump's presidential immunity trial is still pending. it has now become nearly impossible to hold any trial of donald trump before the november elections. that is largely because the supreme court has slow walks this case so much that it has run out the clock in the twice impeached recently convicted ex- presidents most important criminal prosecution. the extended delay and trump's federal election interference case could have been avoided, c and that is why the supreme court's sluggish pace appears even more flagrant and egregious in hindsight. all the way back in december of 2023, special prosecutor jack smith skipped the appellate court and appealed the matter directly to the supreme court. he asked to the justices to rule quickly on whether donald trump is immune from criminal un prosecution, but they denied smith's request at the time and they sent the case back to the federal appeals court. it took a couple of months for the issue to reach the supreme court again, and the justices finally agreed in late february to take up trump's outlandish claim of absolute presidential immunity. 115 days have since passed, since the justices initially agreed to hear the case. it is going to be at least several more days until we get a decision. the earliest we could get it is next wednesday. if or when that case is passed back down to district judge faced with a tremendous dilemma that no other judge in this country has ever had to consider before. whether the criminal trial of a former president and leading president of candidate can take place so close to an election. at this point it appears unlikely that any judge in the country would find it wise to proceed with a trial in this politically charged case right before november. chutkan has also previously said that if she regains control of the case she would be inclined to give both sides three months to prepare for the trial. take about that. with election day just for a half months away, that would not leave much room for an actual trial to have them before the election begins. and that is a shame. the supreme court's failure to act expeditiously in this case, a case that is in the public's utmost interest, is a complete o disservice to the american electorate. the public has a right to see this trial go ahead, including the fact that we are facing a critical election in which the defendant, who is accused of nd trying to overturn the result of the last election, is a leading candidate. chief justice warren burger acknowledged this back in 1974 when the high court took up the united states v nixon for immediate review, completely skipping the federal appeals court altogether. and in his opinion alfor the court, chief justice warren burger explained the reason the justices took up the case was, quote, because of the public importance of the issues presented and the need for their prompt resolution. the need for their prompt resolution. in that instance it took the court only 16 days after oral arguments to issue a decision. finding that the then president , richard nixon, had to comply with a subpoena and had to turn over tapes to the watergate special prosecutor's. even the current supreme court has proved that, when needed, it can move much faster on urgent matters. earlier this year it took the justices only 25 days after oral arguments to decide that donald trump can remain on the ballot in colorado and other states. it has now taken the court more than twice as long to issue a decision on trump's absurd claim of residential immunity. nearly two full months have passed since the court held a hearing in that case, and now, regardless of what happens, regardless of what the decision may be, it will be too late for a trial to be held without politics taking the proceedings. i want to continue this discussion with melissa murray, a professor of law at new york university, cohost of the strict scrutiny podcast, and co- author of the trump indictments commentary and msnbc legal analyst. as well as special correspondent for vanity fair, host of the fast politics podcast in an msnbc political po analyst. good morning to both of you. let me start with you. how certain are we that donald trump, one way or the other, has succeeded in running out the clock on criminal prosecutions related to the overturning of the election? >> i would bet that he is pretty successful and pretty happy with the way things have turned out. neil gorsuch said at oral arguments on april 25th that this court planned to write a nn decision for the ages, and they have certainly taken ages to do so. d we are still waiting on that opinion. by the time we n do get that opinion, whatever it says, it will be academic. it will be something that i teach in my constitutional law class next year. but, as a practical matter, it won't have anything to do with donald trump and the question t here, whether he is immune from criminal liability for this particular case. because, for all intents and purposes, this n court has effectively immunized him through its delay from getting to trial on this question and having the american people, through a jury of their peers, make that determination. whether a kepresidential candide , as president, tried to evade the results of a validly conducted election. >> so, in fact, for people who would find that very frustrating, and i am sure tr there are lots of them around the country, it is only dawning on them now that this game might be over. the only solution, then, is to ensure that donald trump does su not get re-elected for a second term. guess that will put nails in all coffins related to holding donald trump further accountable. >> what i think is so i interesting when you look at the nixon case is we see how partisan the supreme court has become. because the delay is the win. the time is the win. the not having the trial for the election is the win for donald trump. and remember, donald trump's lawyers did not think they would get immunity for seal team six. that was never the goal. the goal was just to slow the cases. and that is why he spent $100 million of taxpayer money on lawyers, to slow the cases. and we have seen that there was one criminal case, it has moved voters, at least independence, and so you really do see the delay is the goal. >> melissa, we don't know, and we may never know why the court is taking so long. what is your sense of it? it could be, i mean, the mechanics of the court are such that it could be one justice who is writing it essential or concurrence. it could be that they are having trouble finding even some common, narrow decision to come to. the problem, of course, is given the criticism we have seen the court face recently, nobody's giving them the benefit of the doubt. >> i think that is exactly right. there are all kinds of reasons for why this is taking so long, but maybe they are trying to wrestle through some of these issues. although i will be very f clear they can write a very narrow opinion, simply saying that causing an insurrection or alternatively, trying to stop the certification of the electoral college cannot be within the scope of presidential duties, and there is no criminal immunity here. they could do something as simple as that. but it seems like they are doing something more, and that perhaps suggest that there is rh some infighting in the court. the fact that yesterday we had an 8-1 decision where there were six different opinions might suggest that yes, they are not really in a consensus driven mode right now. but i think you're exactly i right. all the other things that have come out about this court suggest that maybe we ought not give them the benefit of the doubt. there are two justices on this court, clarence thomas and samuel alito, who are in their 70s, and we know that they would prefer to retire under a trump presidency, as opposed to a biden presidency. and so, if we are being really cynical, perhaps that plays into it, as well. >> that's remarkable, because obviously if they retire in a trump presidency, a trump president gets to appoint their replacement. and somebody who is under 50 years old and hardened. let's talk about what the t' effect on the american public is to not have these cases adjudicated before the election. you're going to have two candidates, very competitive candidates, and the american public is not going to have to, is not going to get to have heard a court adjudicate whether or not donald trump did something criminal in the attempt to overturn the election. that sort of robs us a little more of democracy. >> yeah, the more information people have, always the better. the greater transparency voters have, always the better. this is normal crushing stuff. s when you listen to the oral arguments of this case, they have no precedent. the closest is nixon, and nixon resigned. this is just so unusual and shocking, and really, none of this is normal. and the fact that donald trump is running for re-election, having only had this one case go forward, is kind of shocking . and it really is a sign that our norms have not held. the guardrails did not really work. >> melissa, what is the solution to this? there may be no immediate solution right now, because obviously we would like to believe that we, that our ev supreme court is either strong and reliable, or can be made strong and reliable. what is your best sense of what happens after this? if joe biden wins re-election, does he need idto take more seriously reforms to the court? >> i think that has always been something that people have been pushing joe biden to do. in i mean, first to run on the court, to make clear that he actually has had a really good record of domestic progress. he has had student loan relief, he has achieved that. and those windsor borrowers got eventuated by this court. there are always those who have insinuated that running on the court is an impediment to its domestic progress. but even more serious steps might be taken going forward, in am thinking seriously about court reform, whether that is ur term limits or something more extreme. but this is a court that is kind of off the rails, and that needs to be taken into account as well. >> thanks to both of you this morning, i appreciate it. melissa murray is a professor of law at nyu, the cohost of the strict scrutiny podcast and co-author of trump indictments, historic charting documents with commentary. molly john passes a special correspondent with vanity fair, host of the fast policy podcast and an msnbc political analyst. velshi is back in a minute. nu . clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. power outages due to outdated grids and volatile weather conditions are leaving homes without power, but not yours. you took control. you took action. you made your home a generac home. when the power goes out, your life goes on uninterrupted. it's 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(♪♪) her uncle's unhappy. get yours at kardia.com or amazon. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. you probably don't need a guy in the studio telling you this, but it is hot out there. a blistering heat wave this week has some 90 million americans under heat alerts nationwide. new jersey saw temperatures over 100 degrees yesterday. new yorkers felt a similar struggle as temperatures hit 97 degrees. there is not going to be much relief from the heat this weekend. philadelphia could hit 99 degrees on sunday, breaking the record that was last set 136 years ago in 1888. joining me now from philadelphia is nbc's george the lease. george, this is hard to comprehend. what is it, june 20th, june 21st, something like that? june 22nd? and we are getting late july temperatures that even exceed the worst that most of the cities have ever seen. >> that's right, ali. when you consider that june is fairly mild by most standards, it is been hard for people to acclimate to this heat so quickly. that is kind of the danger here when temperatures have been blanketing us in this heat dome over the past several days. it is not what the tempter actually is, it is what it is like out here that is really concerning. even here in the shade, i have to be honest with you, i'm sweating. i'm sweltering already, and i have only been here a little while. that is something that city health officials across the country, anywhere that is affected by this heat that is blanketing us right now are urging officials and people to look out for. it is the city of philadelphia has declared that heat health emergency, and why those cooling centers and pools are open. that heat dome up in the upper atmosphere right now is really keeping us covered in this heat, creating that heat wave that has been lingering now for days. even so, as we approach whatever davis is, day four of these 90+ temperatures, it is not getting any easier out here. we are here in beautiful penns landing in philadelphia, and it is early still, but already you can tell that not a lot of people want to be out on this. everyone we have seen, obviously shorts, light-colored clothing, and drinking lots and lots of water. we have our water right here, i also have a handy thermometer to keep an eye on some of these surface temperatures. yesterday easily exceeded 100 degrees. that is something to keep in mind when walking your pets on some of these concrete and asphalt surfaces. it is something that people forget about quite frequently. we are going to do our part to stay cool, and of course, the city of philadelphia urging people to check on pets, check on the elderly. pregnant women need to take precautions when being out here for a prolonged period of time. but make no mistake, right now we are making sure, we have been hearing anecdotally that some of our e.r.s are starting to get inundated with people who are suffering from some of those symptoms of heat exhaustion, heatstroke, hypothermia. all things to take very, very seriously when the heat last this long. we are hoping this wraps up soon, but unfortunately, as you mentioned, we are looking to break a record. that relief nowhere in sight just yet. >> a lot of these places, we have to remember that not everybody has air conditioning. not everybody has somewhere to go to where there is air conditioning. there are people who will have to sleep through this, and it gets really, nobody wants to make an emergency out of it. but you can get overcome by this kind of heat very quickly. george, stay safe, stay as cool as you can. we appreciate you joining us. george solis in philadelphia. so, we have more extreme weather, less funding for disaster relief, and what looks like an almost total surrender coming up to the oil industry. that is, of course, how product 2025 gets its way if donald trump is re-elected as president. what project 2025 has to do with your fu