biden's conviction. can republicans, voters, and trump himself explain away how a justice system they say has been weaponized by biden convicted the president the's own sun. it took an effort of herculean proportions clearing 50,000 tons of steel from 500 feet of water in less than three months after the key bridge collapse in baltimore. how soon can they start the next massive undertaking rebuilding the bridge itself? transportation secretary pete buttigieg joins me to discuss it in just a few minutes. and how old is too old to be in office? north dakota voters taking a shot at actually putting a number on it, 81. keep in mind, if they had their way at least a dozen and a half congressional lawmakers would be gone. could this new political push have legs? but we start with the hunter biden verdict causing some confusion in the republican ranks and sucking the air out of donald trump's claims that he's been singled out, targeted by a weaponized justice system. as "the new york times" says, quote, many trump allies had been secretly rooting for an acquittal. the talking points wrote themselves. it would have been more evidence that the united states justice system was rigged in favor of the bidens and against the trumps. tuesday's guilty verdict was inconvenient to that narrative. it's also left trump's campaign and his allies scrambling to explain why hunter's verdict doesn't undercut their claims of a two-tiered justice system. >> today is the first step in delivering accountability for the biden crime family. >> two-tiered system of justice for some time. here is the president's son being convicted, does that undercut your claims? >> it doesn't. every case is different, and clearly the evidence was overwhelming here. >> there are two tiers of justice, and again, they wanted to let him off of everything. >> i want to bring in nbc's mike memoli who followed the biden trial in delaware, matt gorman is a republican strategist, former communications director for the national republican congressional committee, and former senior communications adviser for the tim scott campaign. paul butler is a former federal prosecutor, georgetown law professor, and an msnbc legal analyst. so matt, is this simply an inconvenience when it comes to trump and republican messaging, or is there something more serious, a bigger problem than that at play? >> i don't think really much of it at all because i don't think any votes were going to be changed, just like i argued when it came to the trump verdict that any would be happening under hunter biden. moved on the economy, on maybe abortion or immigration, left and right, at the end of the day, the hunter biden verdict versus the trump verdict is not going to move any substantial voters, so maybe there might be, you know, some talking points might need to be updated, but it's not going to move or change any narratives. >> matt, republicans may actually have two problems here, right? there's a sympathy factor. a lot of americans have had a connection to people with addictions and we've heard expressions that there is concern that this will maybe take some people who were in the middle and make them see joe biden in a more favorable light, and as "the wall street journal" reported this week, a not insignificant portion of the base, the republican base, are gun owners who see this as a second amendment issue. they believe hunter biden was actually unfairly prosecuted, so do republicans go after hunter potentially at their own peril? >> yeah, i mean, look, i don't think this was a case about addiction any more than technically the trump case was about paying off a porn star, right? it's about lying on a federal form, and the other was about falsifying business records. and so look, and also, you know, hunter is a 54-year-old adult. he's responsible for his actions in this case lying on that form -- >> likability and trust do pla into presidential elections. >> sure, but hunter's not running for president -- >> but no, his dad is and the way his dad handled this, vis-a-vis the way some republicans want to talk about it. >> yeah, i mean, look, after hearing kind of a lot of how, you know, biden team talks about it, hearing some of the pictures or seeing some of the pictures coming out the other day, i wouldn't be surprised if there was a commutation. he's ruled out a pardon. i wouldn't be surprised if he goes back on the pardon promise or does some kind of commutation, based on the sentiment we're hearing from the biden team right now. >> mike, is there anything you're hearing that would suggest that the president would go back on when he has said very clearly both in writing and in public? >> well, in fact, chris, i just have some new reporting in the last few minutes after talking to a white house official because karine jean-pierre was asked this question about a commutation on air force one as the president is traveling to italy and she maybe create add little confusion. she said she didn't have anything to say about that question. we know how quickly the president responded to that question about a pardon in that abc news interview, but a white house official telling me just moments ago that any discussion of commuting the sentence is premature because, as this official points out, there is not even a sentencing date, let alone a sentence to commute. this official also pointed to the statement that was released in the president's name yesterday after we got that verdict in which he said he would continue to respect the justice system as it moves forward. that's important, i think we also need to be realistic, chris, to matt's point about what might be different after election day, whether or not president biden wins re-election, either he'll be on his way out of office and looking at a potential new trump administration coming in or he'll be free of any potential future electoral consequences and may decide to do this, but i think that official is right that we are talking about a potential sentence that you been -- could be simply probation and not even jail time. >> i want to hear what some trump voters out in pennsylvania told our nbc reporter about the hunter biden verdict. take a listen. >> god bless that man. he's been through an awful lot. i wish him -- i wish him well, i wish him well. >> i think there's this country personally has bigger issues, but i'm glad that there is -- nobody's above the law. i'm glad that the juries have been doing their job. >> at the same time, the nrcc is trying to fund-raise off this verdict selling biden & son shirts in quote, jumpsuit orange. there you see the picture. it seems particularly odd maybe because that group is built to help republicans in tough districts, including moderate districts. is there a disconnect between what republican lawmakers want to focus on and what republican voters want to focus on? >> well, chris, we often do see this disconnect, this gap between what is used to potentially raise money and activate the base versus what is that money used to spend on when it comes to campaign advertising on the air waves, and so i think in this case, we certainly see that this is a motivating factor for those base voters, but maybe when we look at what the republicans are putting on the tv air waves this fall is different. i do think it was significant, though, chris, yesterday when not just the biden campaign was hands off as it relates to this hunter biden trial, so was the trump campaign. the topic of addiction was so part of the discussion throughout this trial and the biden campaign maintains it back fired when president trump four years ago went after hunter biden in this way, and so i think you saw so quickly, though, after this verdict that republicans were eager to push the conversation forward to the next trial that's coming in september as it relates to tax evasion. this trial may get even more difficult as it relates to revealing more about the sources of income, questions about whether hunter biden was actively lobbying or in courting foreign interests that could be more politically problematic for this campaign as it moves forward, and that's certainly where republicans seemed to want to put the focus yesterday. >> i want to remind people, you worked at the nrcc, given the strategy that seems to be coming out of donald trump's campaign right now, which is different than it was in the previous campaign, keeping hands off on hunter biden at least to the extent of not coming out, not being critical in the way that some folks particularly on the far right were yesterday, would you have argued against those t-shirts? >> no, because i think mike put it pretty well, right? on one hand that -- the purpose of that is to raise money, to energize the base. clearly it will do that. i think as you'll see when ads come out in i think a couple more months, they're not going to be talking about hunter biden, again, economy, immigration, crime and the like. so i think one is to make sure the coffers are filled. and then they'll be talking about issues the general public and independents will focus on. >> let me go back to the trial. there was an interesting article in "usa today," which talked to several jurors. one called the case heart wrenching. another said she felt this was a waste of taxpayer dollars, but that they followed what the jury instructions were and they voted guilty. but she asked this question, why couldn't they just fine him? what's the answer in your mind? and i guess maybe as an extension of that, you do wonder, should, for example, after the election assuming he wins joe biden decide on a commutation, maybe most of the american public would actually think, you know what? that's okay. >> yeah, so why couldn't they just fine him? they could or they could not have charged him at all. the reason they did charge him is because his name is hunter biden. he's been charged with crimes that few people get prosecuted for. every year millions of people fill out the same atf form to purchase a firearm, only about 300 people a year get prosecuted for lying on that form. prosecutors only bring a case typically if the gun is used in a crime. hunter just possessed that gun for 11 days. it was never even loaded, and it was in a lock box for ten of these days. and chris, the same thing is true with the tax charges. most of us know people who don't pay their taxes for a while, and yes, it's a crime but usually it's handled by the irs as a civil matter. so hunter is actually being treated worse and for that reason, i think there's a good argument to be made for a pardon or a commutation of the sentence if he's sentenced to a period of incarceration. president biden could, but at least with regard to the pardon, he says he won't, and you could contrast that approach with donald trump and how he used his pardon power to help people who were close to him like steve bannon, paul manafort and roger stone. i think it's hard to say on these facts that it's democrats who are weaponizing the department of justice. >> donald trump has been mast masterful at delaying his other three criminal trials. is there a way for hunter biden to delay his tax trial that you see or do you think there's any likelihood that there could be a plea deal? >> i think it's extremely unlikely to be delayed. it's already been delayed once because the lawyer for the president's son said that he needed more time to prepare for hunter's tax trial. it couldn't be too close to the gun form trial. i think there's an extremely strong case for a plea bargain, just like hunter didn't have an obvious defense in the gun form trial, he doesn't have an obvious defense in the tax case, and as mike mentioned, if this case goes to trial, the details that come out are likely to be even more salacious than in the gun form trial. the indictment talks about rather than spending the money on his taxes, hunter used this money for sex workers, for fancy cars, and fancy hotel stays. so again, if this trial happens two months before the election, i think there are going to be political concerns for the president. plus, if he goes to trial and is convicted in the tax case, he could get more time based on his higher conviction for the gun case. so, chris, you could be sure that hunter's defense team is urging him to consider a plea bargain so this tax case does not go to trial two months before the election. >> paul butler, mike memoli, thank you. matt gorman, you're going to stay with me. in 90 seconds, major news on the economy. brand new inflation numbers are out, and the fed is unveiling its interest rate decision in less than an hour. what it all tells us about the economy and what it might mean for the 2024 election. that's coming up. for the 2024 election. that's coming up ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ you know what's brilliant? 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[whoosh] ♪ trains that sense what isn't on the schedule. ♪ trains that use the power of dell ai and intel. ♪ to see hundreds of miles of tracks. ♪ [vroom] [train horn] [buzz] clearing the way, [whoosh] so you arrive exactly where you belong. inflation report that came in cooler than expected. it sets the stage for a big decision from the fed less than an hour from now that could tell us whether relief from sky high interest rates could be coming soon. whether any amount of good economic news can change the equation for president biden remains an open question. voters consistently give him poor marks on inflation and the economy andat according to a ne pollco from battleground, ohio, large majority say they were better off under former president trump. eugene daniels is a "politico" white house correspondent and msnbces political contributor. nbc news senior business correspondent christine romans is with me here on set. this is shaping up, christine, to be an unusual epic day for economic news. what do we know and what are we expecting. >> signs that inflation is cooling again. that's an important development after rapid progress on the inflation story last year, itde stalled outy at the beginning this ouyear. now you're seeing 3.3%, that's an improvement. and for more than a year now you'ven had wages rising faste than inflation, and so over time that could help people feel a littlele bit better about the overall economy, whatr it mean for the fed,l we will hear lat this afternoon whether the fed is still going to pencil in maybe two rateo cuts this yearf it believes it's doing its job on inflation, then rate cuts would be around the corner. remember, ulchris, this is stila very strong economy. you cut interest rates when an economy is weak. this anis, according to the wor banks, the strongest industrialized economy in the world right now. >> eugene, vice president harris is in charlotte right now and what the administration is calling the economic opportunity tour. so far oni polls suggest that t white house hasn't had a lot of success't convincing skeptical voters that biden andng harris e doing a good job on the economy. is there any messaging, any piece of economic data you think that can breakthrough? >> at this point it doesn't seem like it, aright? what voters say about the economy when you talk to them, right, you can tell them all the macroeconomics, all of the numbers that we just went through. you can tell them that the world bank said this isn a great economy. when they don't feelths it, th don't care. there's been over years such a distrust in institutions and elites around the world and especially in this country.n people don't believe them. d i was in an uber yesterday, i was talking to my driver, and he asked me who's going to win. i told him i wasn't sure. asked him who he was interested in. he said he hoped i that donald trump came back, and i asked him why. he said because of the h econom. and i asked him, i said do you feel like joe biden is doing anything on the economy? he said he is but note enough d it's not happening fast enough. so what the biden harris campaign and the administration are dealing with is a group of people,gr the entire country really that's impatient. they're impatient foren change. they're impatient for things to get better, and nowadays instead of sayingwa we'll give the pers eight years to make it get better, they want to see it much faster and that's what they're dealing with. t they have admitted to this. they hadn't done a good job of selling any of their accomplishments for g years, an so you know,co they're attempti to do that now, this economic tour that the vice president is on ise almost directly lookingo black men specifically, so they're a group that they're clearly concerned about. they are both runningrl out of time, and they feel like they have people f who are going to attempt here in a couple of months. >> so i want to dig into some of the numbers in this newhs maris poll of ohio, which shows trump leading biden by 7 percentage points. that is more than the margin of error. inflation and preserving democracy were tied as the most importantie issues, 59% say the and59 their families were bette off while trump was president, including 13% of democrats. so how much urgency does that telegraphdo for biden? >> a lot. it tells them that he -- like i said, he should be running out of -- he's running out of that time. you know, one thing that they feel like democrats and liberals haveat talked to them about is like finding an enemy, right? because they can't be the bad guys. so they have to be able to tell voters who the bad guy is, and so you look at the kinds of thingsin they're doing on junk fees when it comes to airlines, concerts and those kinds of things. they're trying to tin get voter someone to be angry at, and then they, theat knights in shining armor are fighting those enemies. that'sse something they are tryg to do. that's probably the best they can do. they are workinge on things li housing because they -- and talking about theg things that landlords aren't tdoing, the people who have all the money aren't doing, and polling does show if you give voters an enemy, that is helpful for someone like biden and harris in a campaign. >> eugene daniels, christine romans, thank you both very v much. and coming up, a critical shipping channel p,reopens aftea catastrophic bring collapse. u.s. transportation secretary pete buttigiegol joins us next talk about when the bridge itself will be back in action. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. ing "chrg reports" only on msnbc power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans can help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogas