i will explain what that meant. also, another trump aid headed to prison. a day to turn himself in but we have that story later this hour and why it matters. that bannon will join convicted felon peter navarro in prison but that is coming up plus a report on president biden marking the important d-day anniversary. why is it important to the president, to our nation and some of the threats and issues we face now. as i mentioned, by the end of this hour, the return of kermit the frog. why? legendary director ron howard makes his debut and how he is teaming up with kermit and the whole gang. i invite you to get comfortable for that hour. we have a lot of news tonight. and some fun. our top story draws on a long history of tradition of respecting jury verdicts that is key to understanding what we are witnessing right now, dangerous and largely unprecedented attacks on jury verdicts from the highest levels of the government that we are seeing. it has been about one week are about one week and one hour since the news 1st broke that donald trump was guilty on all counts. you probably member where you were. it was across much of the world. it has been greeted with a peaceful acceptance here by americans, they up in the day sense. there was no arrest outside the courthouse were trump fans and critics have gathered. there was no dangerous demonstrations anywhere. in the country rhtne -- country and let alone riots. it is also a very clear rejection of trump's vague threats of disorder or worse that he has set it every step of this if he was every held accountable including at the point of possible and now confirmed conviction. why am i mentioning that? the general public accepted this and did not revolt. to be clear, many leaders in legal circles, in journalism, which covers is, regardless of which way it came down and veterans of government service also accepted this as did independence and local conservative figures. and national democrats. it is a long tradition, including the leaders here across two parties on your screen to respect the role of awe and verdicts. before i even report on something you may have heard about, how the d.c. republicans are melting down, also trying to burn down this process. trying to shred this tradition, i want to begin not with that freak out but with the context of this nonpartisan tradition itself >> the prosecution and the defense made their arguments. the juries were properly instructed and they rendered a verdict. once the jury has spoken, that is how our system works. >> the jury made the decision. although, you know, there may be people on either side of this that don't agree. it is respected. >> i don't agree with what the jury does but that is the system . i support the system. >> i trust juries and i trust the jury here did its job >> i think our justice system is getting more just. i'm thankful for the verdict. >> the only people that heard all the evidence for the jury box. >> we respect the court, we disagree with the decision. >> the u.s. supreme court has spoken. let there be no doubt, while i strongly disagree with the court's decision, i accept it. >> disagree but accept. you just heard leaders across both parties and at the national and state level valley and actually accepting things after the results. there are many more examples. the test comes more when you doubt or disagree with the court ruling, not just saying you like the ones you win. the last quote you heard was from vice president gore, excepting a court decision that resulted in him losing a close presidential election by a single black at the supreme court. the point here is not whether the evidence and decision could be debated. it could. both sides, peacefully and formally debated that in the court system in that case for example. then, when the court system issued its rulings, well, vice president gore respected the rule of law. he put that above his own interests and desires and his own political interests. the most important issues must be decided by the judicial branch, at times but respecting the rule of law comes with that but the stakes could not have been higher. and while some still disagree with the decision, gore said, i disagree but accept. it was 20 years later when trump did the opposite trying to overthrow election results in his court lawsuits with a sustained attack of january 6th and that endangered lives including his vice president it led to so many convictions on his 2020 campaign as we have been covering the latest to steve bannon as you look at two in the longer list of convictions. trump did all that long before he was ever convicted of anything. as we have emphasized, based on the evidence. what he is doing now and being aided by republicans, as you will see, is not a response to his new conviction. it is an ongoing attack on law and democracy. he falsely claimed this latest trial was, quote, rigged after he lost and was convicted the same word he used against his own party in the rnc and general election loss and sorted investigations. >> this was a rigged, disgraceful trial. the real verdict is going to be november 5th by the people. >> that is the sound of a convicted felon fighting to stay out of jail. what about leaders in the other branches of government, who are supposed be independent? they take an oath to the constitution and not to any convicted felon or political party. let me remind you the current speaker, mike johnson, a republican, once warned that trump was unfit and could be dangerous as president and having become speaker, however, the highest ranking republican in elected government, he has more power than trump, who is not in government at all right now, he has changed his tune. take a look at mike's johnson website. maybe they will change after watching "the beat" tonight but it says now and he said it for years and he is a lawyer heard of the rule of law is our foundation. then he is, by his own admission, attacking our foundation as a country. he showed his hand and made the pilgrimage to donald trump's courthouse. he attacked this as rigged. he attacked the judges and the judge's family in ways that echoed what trump wanted people to say without trump himself trying to violate the gag order. as a lawyer, johnson calls himself a constitutional expert. he evokes his own knowledge and talks about in the gop caucus before he was elected speaker. he knows what the sixth amendment says that you have this right to a public trial by an impartial jury. you can confront witnesses, you have assistance of counsel. he knows jury trials are so important they are literally in the constitution. they are the bedrock of our justice system. that no administration, whatever the party is and no state may just destroy them. they are in the constitution. certainly, they are not subject to a single politician or one who has been convicted british speaker johnson attacks a constitutional order. he is joined the allies about the trial and suggest in some sort of big government revenge plan to pressure or corrupt the process. no evidence has shown this trial was rigged. rigged is not just a word. it is not just a word that means bad or something you do not like it refers to something that can happen if you rigged an election or yu someone by planting evidence, there is an appeals process that double checks trials and when you have the kind of money and lawyers that trump has, you will get the full benefit of that. it does test those claims. they have not submitted any evidence at the trial level or appeal level to substantiate the currently false claim of rates. if we do see that evidence, if you watch this program, you know we will report it. they have not shown anything on that. instead, they are just lying and breaking, as i showed you, so much tradition and their own claims. trump was found guilty on all counts. keep all of that in mind as you consider what are actually unusual partisan attacks. >> we have rogue prosecutors around the country that have drug president trump through this process because of who he has been there will be a reckoning on november 5th. >> this case was rigged from the very beginning. what happened in new york if you applied across all 50 states would be the definition of fascism. >> this is most outrageous travesty i have ever seen. >> this is a justice system that hunts republicans while protecting democrats. this certainly was a hoax, a sham. >> it was not a hoax. they are not targeting people that way. i remind you they have not been able to prove that in court. if you want a reminder the justice department is actually, right now, scheduling is a bit of coincidence. if you follow the news, you will note that cases get bigger and for all sorts of reasons. as it happens, while those were being said, right now the doj is holding a trial of abiding family member and a top democratic senator. does not look like they are free to put those democrats on trial. i will say about them what i said about convicted felon donald trump. as defendants, they are legally presumed innocent and we will fall those trials. we will bring you the verdicts. this is a new line crossed and it is different than a general history. it can be complicated when the government is in a position to review the conduct of or prosecute people who serve or serve in government. there are many many safeguards for that. there are special councils and president bush cooperated with one of the special councils i mentioned that he set for an in person interview. something trump never did about who exposed a cia agent. then president bush about respect the jury process. bush later used his powers for that aid. people can debate how presidents pardon people. that has been a debate from nixon to bush and further back. even in that time and regarding someone in his own administration, the probes and jury process was respected. present a lot of that to respect the rule of law when his appointed cia director betray us face a problem over leaking classified information to a woman he was seeing. there were debates about how to balance the military public service with that offense unlike trump, he accepted responsibility to cooperate with authorities and he did reach a probation deal where he pled guilty but did avoid prison. unlike top republicans that you just saw, then president obama and vowed to respect that verdict in process. even though, having your hand- picked cia director convicted is not the greatest look. obama knew that then just as johnson knows this is complicated now. that does not mean you chuck the entire constitution in the garbage, especially if you are self-proclaimed constitutionalist. the evidence matters because this is how our justice system is supposed to work. the history matters right now because it shows this is a different and dangerous new phase. it is not just politics as usual that the sitting speaker as you see there march down to a criminal court courthouse to attack fellow citizens and the jury process. it is the kind of thing that mike johnson used to say would be shameful and dangerous. there is a politics to this. maga operatives and some these wall street elites who are closing up to trump, they understand this is that if people really get it and know the facts. they need to minimize this and launder it into another case where they can claim it is, quote, just partisan back-and- forth and payback. as i told you about that earlier this week. you might hear about that talking point especially as steve bannon reports to prison. and especially has trumpets of three cases in the months ahead. actually, this is not politics as usual. you can as the 2015 mike johnson that i showed you before he made whatever sort of deals he did make to become the maga speaker but you can test the past republican presidents but you could as leaders in both parties. vowing to destroy the justice system and jury trials when you find one outcome you disagree with is a different mine. it comes amidst a now convicted of failed coup leader trying to avoid the more serious trials he faces in the future if the process plays out. cases for the january 6th failed to, for a rico charge, for stealing classified material whatever motive he had for that. if a cia director can get in trouble, so can a former president. they both have serious powers when they are in office. they don't have a lifetime right to steal or violate subpoena laws or fight with the fbi and endanger people in the fbi who have to show up with guns to take back the stolen property. there is not really a debate about that. where do we go from here? white house pattern from the bush era, bill kristol, joins us in 90 seconds. in 90 seconds alice loves the scent of gain so much, she wished there was a way to make it last longer. say hello to your fairy godmother alice, and long-lasting gain scent beads. part of the irresistible scent collection from gain. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. i have a lot of confidence, generally, in the fbi. they have a difficult job. >> i thought the jury verdict should stand. i felt the punishment was severe. >> we are not supposed to metal in criminal investigations and that has been our practice. i think that there are certain procedures that the fbi will follow or doj follow. two dozen -- present to disagreed on everything except honoring the jury verdict process and the criminal justice process. we are joined by someone who served in the bush era, bill kristol, veteran of the first bush white house. welcome. your thoughts on this issue. and whether this is fundamentally and distinctly different than the exchanges we sometimes see in politics. >> is certainly is. it really brought home how different it is. how bad it is. how bad it is for the country and how bad it is the republican party. trump is the defendant. the whole party goes lockstep. not even saying, you know, there is questions about this decision but i hope it might be overturned on appeal. the whole thing is rigged. the judge, jury, everything. these 12 jurors. by every account i have read of the trial, you have been there a couple days but i wasn't. they were attentive, serious and sober and picked by both councils. and they tried to get rid of people that might be biased. some of the jurors were not necessarily politically that far from supporting trump. yet, they seem to have paid attention and deliberated. not even a sentence. of course, the jury trial is a great american institution but we have respected jury trials. not even that. it is all rick. it all has to be thrown out. for me, the scariest thing about it is what it says about things going forward. what does trump's second look like? he may be a lawless president. and ours in evans he has a whole political party that will support him in every effort he makes to throw out the rule a lot. >> again, there is an elitism to this. some of this is the maga thing. i mentioned wall street is in the other enablers. if you talk to different people, there is a lot of minimizing and laundering of what is going on. i want to be clear, also, i used to practice law. i think anyone with any experience in life, sooner or later, they deal with heavy things. there are people who resort to the core system for business disputes. from deployment disputes. mayor law -- marriage law, child custody and also for serious accidents, killing and murder. we tell people in this country that we will try to make it there. it has to improve over time. the bedrock is that you have a rule a lot for that. the times are it has been overthrown in the races south and other vigilantism, is of the most same history we have put in a business fraud case that has some political questions running at, is that asking as much is when people ask for the killing of a minor, trayvon martin? you have to accept this and many other cases. it is not that you agree. you have to have the baseline. it is not an exaggeration to say the rule of law crumbles. i wanted so governor perry talking about this in the controversy over the case i mentioned, trayvon martin. >> the jury made the decision. although, there may be people on either side that do not agree with how it came out, the fact is that we have the best judicial system in the world and we respect it. >> conservative texas governor bear. mike johnson used to have this down. his website claims to. he is the top republican in government. take a look. >> we are the rule of law team. we believe in the rule of law. >> prosecutors around the country that have drug president trump through this process because of who he is. there will be a reckoning on november 5th. >> bell? >> again, i come back to the second term looking like with a party that is so willing to trash the entire system. and now promises vengeance, basically. promises we will do to them what they tried to do with us. other republicans say that. the guardrail that somewhat held in the first term that presented the worst things that trump wanted to do. who thinks they will hold in a trump second term? who thinks he will have anyone, attorney general or fbi director or white house counsel that will stand up to him? who thinks the republican party and congress will stand up to him? that is very, dangerous. >> we are listening to bill kristol but it might have been too much truth. i'm just kidding. we still have some issues, i believe we lost his feet. i want to thank bill kristol for joining us but we will get that fixed. coming up, we will explain exactly why we have ron howard on tonight and why this is back in the news. >> i am here was someone very, very special. the first lady, mrs. michelle obama. >> hi, everyone. >> mr. president, i have a very important question for you. >> hi, i am so yeah. >> and i am abby. >> honestly, how could you not stick around for that? one howard by the end of the hour. the other big story, steve bannon will become the second trump white house aide going to prison. my breakdown is next. a slow network is no network for business. that's why more choose comcast business. and now, we're introducing ultimate speed for business —our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds... at no additional cost. it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. don't miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! today trump white house -- the second aim going to prison this year. this is new. bannon lost to delay his bid serving for the conviction he was dealt fortifying january 6th investigators. you seem convicted there under the 2020 column as we have been tracking different convictions. others that have been convicted for actually trying to sear the 2020 result bannon defied the 20 -- generated by committee . had a public role in some of the clocks which became the insurrection and he had calls into the trump white house on the very eve of january 6th. >> all -- is going to break loose tomorrow. all converging and the point of attack. the point of attack tomorrow. >> all -- point of attack, seems like he had some idea about what would unfold the next day but was not convicted sedition. we should note that in 2020 the feds indicted him on fraud. he was presumed innocent during trump's final hours in office for the outgoing president trying not to leave the light is parted bannon before the trial. >> is steve bannon has been arrested and indicted. >> news coming up from the southern district of new york. >> he defrauded donors and online fundraising campaign to pay for the border wall. >> president trump issuing a flurry of late-night pardons in competitions brinkley one for his former chief strategist steve bannon. >> a federal jury has form -- former chubb adviser on two counts of contact of congress. new advantages some of the history. keep in mind donald trump has his reasons letting thought parting bannon before the election and voters wait in or even after that was too controversial. it is one of the last minute out the door pardons. the current conviction that sent him to prison is the charge that also sent a bannon ally, peter navarro to federal prison, where he is right now. he was only trump white house official who was actually still in trump's white house on january 6th to go to prison thus far. navarro discuss some of his plans on "the beat." >> the plan was simply this. we had over 100 congressmen and senators on capitol hill ready to implement this week. the remedy was for vice president, the quarterback and the green bay sweep to remand those voters back to the battleground states. >> do you realize you are describing a coup? >> no. >> navarro is in federal prison right now pursuant to his refusal to discuss those same plans under oath, where there might have been more liability. bannon runs this podcast that is become a shadow maga program , where would be trump administration officials gather. we should note he and navarro discuss their whole advocacy and their explanations of those january 6th plans to overturn trump's loss but they touched on what navarro told me on this program. >> no. when you're on msnbc -- by the way, i'm very proud -- melbourne is a trial lawyer. that is when you have to go back -- you have to get up in his face and refuted. trying to get harvard faculty lamp it no, we are not reasonable men. we are unreasonable. unreasonable men change history. we are unreasonable this is not some debate. >> those two individuals, now, slated to be in federal prison at the same time for the same charge. bannon ordered by this judge to report in on july 1st for a four month sentence. that means donald trump's money 16 campaign chair, bannon, the guy in charge, will not be in prison for most of the 2024 general election for the convicted crime of defying investigators looking into what he did and what trump allies were convicted of after trump's 2020 election loss. it is a lot but that is an update on the breaking today struggle up ahead, we will get into the sesame street michelle obama and beyond. the focus of a new film that just saw last night by ron howard, who makes his b debut on our summit series tonight. first, in the newsday. joe biden commemorating the day. we have that next. we have that . is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union. will you join us? call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day, will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for free speech, liberty and justice. your support is more urgently needed than ever. reproductive rights are on the line and we are looking at going backwards. we have got to be here. we've got to be strong to protect those rights. so please join the aclu now. call or go to my aclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt member card magazine and more to show you're part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for everyone to have a voice and equal justice. and we will never stop because we the people, means all of us. so please call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. ceremonies they are marking the 80th anniversary of the allied invasion of normandy in world war ii. surviving veterans, some are over 100 years old gathering in france for this important ceremony. president biden on these heroes, patriots, and veterans. and he did explicitly link this to what has been the largest land war in the region since world war ii, russia's attack on ukraine. biden declaring nato will stand up to that aggression and warning democracy is under assault. >> we are living in a time when democracy is more at risk across the world. now we have to ask ourselves, will be stand against tyranny? against evil? against crushing brutality? of the iron fist? will be stand for freedom? will we defend democracy? we stand together. my answer is, yes. >> biden will make a point of visiting the american cemetery on sunday. this is the same one that if you recall donald trump made the point of refusing to visit in 2018. the land reporting trump rejected that because he feared his hair would become disheveled and he did not believe it was important to honor the american war debt. trump said, why should i go to that cemetery? it is filled with, quote, losers. at the time it was seen as a shocking breach by a sitting president. another contrast, as his current president both marks not only the history but argues there is history yet to be made in the region and in the choice facing americans. up next week turn to something that we are excited about for the academy award-winning filmmaker, director, ron howard. his b debut, next. the best way to solve a problem is to keep it from happening. 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it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. young people spend more time on screen than ever before. we know that, it sparks questions about development, school rules, our collective psychology. one of the breakthroughs though with positive purring for kids on the tv screen may seem downright quaint these days when it started, it was a radical idea that has become his global sensation that management quality education, universal buys of kindness and diversity with something that actually was so watchable it became beloved. every so often, i will reach for a lyric around here and here is one that is relevant, quote, we in the streets like sesame. tonight, we are turning to the lessons and inspiration of sesame street. >> a show treasure across the generation. big . oscar and the rest of the gang are getting new neighbors per >> they can teach kids. >> teaching kids using new technology? >> one of the most important things that emil andsix have learned is how to be kind. >> is new study found that the first generation of kids who watch sesame street grew up to do better in elementary school. >> how about that? this program has not become part of several generations of people growing up across dozens of countries. it has been a boost for parenting and educators as the last quote mentioned that early exposure improve school performance, researchers found. it boosted not only how the children did in school but also their earning potential later in life. you may know a bit about the show and it can't -- and its characters. there is a story behind it that is striking. it includes the resistance base by its creator, the legendary jim henson, who had the kind of reject his would-be media and hollywood projectors. he had to find new ways to get the ship out because people did not want to run it. that was a pattern he dealt with in dealing with trying to get out the beloved muppets. he is profiled in this new documentary, jim henson: idea man. >> when you get an idea, you have to look at it from every direction. >> along comes a new fresh idea. and finally the whole thing crystallizes into whole great big beautiful idea. >> the story about a widely acclaimed legendary storyteller is brought to us by quite honestly, another legendary storyteller, ron howard. one of the most celebrated directors in hollywood, which began as a stint as a child actor it shows you might remember, like andy griffith. and the going on to direct dozens of films that have defined generations, the da vinci code and how the grinch told christmas, cinderella man and a beautiful mind in which howard won the best director for best picture. ron howard is here as part of our summit series. his "the beat" debut, next. , n d 's plaque psoriasis. she thinks her flaky gray patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. allison! over here! otezla can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. ♪♪ [announcer] with clearer skin girls' day out is a good day out. live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. pods spring moving sale has been extended! save up to 25% on moving and storage until june 10th... and see why pods has been trusted with over 6 million moves. don't wait, use promo code 25now to save. book ati bought the team! kevin...? 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[ryan laughs] norman, bad news... i never graduated from med school.! what? -but the good news is... xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal... i know... faster wifi and savings? ...i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? ♪ someday we will find it the rainbow connection the lover, the dreamer and me ♪ >> we are joined now by ron howard, the legendary director, filmmaker and producer he has got a new project out. jim henson: idea man. kermit, the muppets, summit -- sesame street and a whole lot more. thanks for being here. >> a pleasure. >> you tell jim henson's story. we learned that some of what he was making was not necessarily only going to be designed for kids. >> most of it did in the beginning. >> although, boy it. >> it's interesting, he wasn't interested in puppets. he was a young creative guy in mississippi. then moved closer to washington. and he just loved television. and he just wanted to find a way to get on television. we have these hilarious interviews that orson welles did on all people, and out of it, you learn that he never even played with puppets as a kid, but that was a way in to the local television station. he took it, created his own puppets. and you know, he was a very introverted guy. he became an extrovert when he had a puppet on his hand. he was funny, satirical, but really accessible, and he just grew his talent. you know, with puppetry, and he was also very experimental and trying to push the boundaries of what movies could be as well. >> i watched the doc last night, and one thing that comes through is this a person who is really soulful, and it comes through as very soft and playful and creative in ways that the modern world, we have this world, people are creatives. a lot of this is capitalist driven, imitation. i want to look at sesame street, as it grew, it was so embraced. you had icons from all aspects of life join in. >> they're here with someone very, very special. we're with the first lady, michelle obama. >> hi, everyone. >> are you ready, burt? >> i'm prepared to wail. >> right on. what about you, ernie? >> i'm adam. >> that is a lot of noise you're making there, buddy. >> i got it. you're johnny flash. >> johnny cash. >> hi. >> hi. >> want to play tag? >> sure. you're it. ♪ i'm going to keep my head up high ♪ ♪ keep on reaching high ♪ >> wonderful. the question is, what does it mean to kids to see their fantasy puppet world intersect with the real world? and in a world that is run by adults, you know how it is, these governments, it's all adults, ron. some of them are even on the older side, although we love everybody. what does it mean to have material, culture, that is actually produced and shared for kids, so kids might have a little piece of it as they grow up? >> i think it means so much. and of course, when sesame street came along, it was revolutionary because oh, there were some terrific shows and captain kangaroo and romper room and things like that that were aimed at kids and trying to sort of, you know, inspire them to play and be thoughtful and those kinds of things. but they were super gentle. they skewed very young. and when they got jim henson involved with sesame street, here was somebody who wanted to be funny. he wanted to be entertaining. he wanted to use his puppets in that way and didn't necessarily think of himself as an educator, but he had a great heart. but he had been in the commercial business for 15 years. and he used a lot of the sensibilities of selling ideas which he had learned to do, didn't particularly love doing it, but he knew it was effective, through humor, through the puppets, through fantasy. that you could teach learning ideas. you could sell learning to kids. and that was, you know, sort sof his pitch. what i didn't realize is not only did he bring the puppets but he directed so many of those great short films, the counting and the letters and all that stuff, it's all using his experimental cinematic style that he was trying to make for his own avant-garde movies, and again, it was all in the effort to try to in a smart, entertaining way, reach kids, but i think he did one other thing and i can speak for my own household. when i would walk by and one of my kids was watching sesame street, when you would hear the beat, the cool music, you could see the cutting style. you would sit down, smile, and udenly, i as a parent would sit down and watch sesame street with my kids. i think it pulled families together. >> i think the project reminds everybody of that. you can go to disney films and they have multiple layers. but the muppets that i'm about to take a look at take you to the fact that we enjoy it as adults, but we also tap into our inner child which is start part of us. so i want, for your response, let's look at the muppets show. >> we would go to abc or cbs or whatever, to try to get them interested. and invariably, what would happen is they would say either no, they're puppets. kid stuff, no. >> my dad was very confident that the muppet show was going to be great. but the effort he had to go to, to convince the industry, was almost superhuman. >> why is it important for you to show that path, the early resistance? >> it was important to show the resistance that he faces throughout. he didn't necessarily -- he would get frustrated by things but he just kept working. his attitude was work around, find work around. just keep going, put your head down. he tried so many times with the muppets. he just believed a half-hour variety show with the muppets would work. he was proven to be right 100 times over. but it's not surprising that he struggled because it was -- he was an outlier and he was thinking along those lines, and buyers are often very, very cautious, and they're a little more looking to imitate success. and there was no template for what jim was pitching. but he proved it. >> and that's part of why it was so dope. >> exactly. >> the was no tumplet, and it brought something. i'm going to move you on to your own movies. i know you want to talk about the latest film, but a lot of people know you from all these other cool films and it's your first time on "the beat." let's take a look. >> this could change my entire outlook on life. >> really? >> no. >> i'm saying that when the president does it, that means it's not illegal. >> i don't believe in luck. but i do believe in the value of things. >> do you still as much fun making movies now as the old days? the industry is under a lot of pressure. >> it's hard, it's challenging. brian grazer and i, finding it exciting because there are sort of more ways to get interesting projects done, and yet the challenge of sort of getting something green lit is probably, you know, more extreme than it's ever been. we're having a great run with imagine. we have a lot of great people that we're working with, but there have been so many times, it took years to get friday night lights made. liar liar, there's a movie you think would be a no-brainer. >> is that a trump film? >> that was -- okay. that took 12 years to get made. >> and it might take america 12 years. wow, the hits keep coming. i'm not going to be cast -- >> hoping trump gets turned into a musical. >> i'm not going to be cast in your comedies. you mentioned brian grazer. you're here on the summit series where we talk to people at the summit of their fields. why are the muppets on the news? it's partly because i keep it real, probably because we wanted to talk to you. you're going to talk about the muppets, i said that's a deal we can do. >> muppets are very worthy. >> with two minutes left before we go to joy, i want today play your colleague who you just name checked, brian was also on the summit series. you guys have done these amazing films together. you haven't seen this, right? >> no. >> here's what he said about you. >> he's so gifted as an artist, at creating multiple, you know, three dimensional characters so that because he himself inflates people, makes them feel better about themselves. i think we're the longest partnership in hollywood history, actually. it's been almost like 40 years. >> do you think about it that way, that you're not just doing your work, which has some talent or technical aspect, but he says you're inflating, almost belarging people? >> i'm just fascinated by people. and it's what fascinated me about jim henson and his journey along with his wife and his family and his collaborators. it can be action, comedy, fantasy, but i'm always most fascinated by what's the journey and what's relatable. back to jim henson y think the reason he's so well remembered is satire, comedy. he's showing a mirror to us. and making us realize just how silly we can be sometimes. he's using those characters. i think brian is right, by the way. i think we are the longest partnership in hollywood. >> that's cool. >> it's still going strong. >> final question is the shortest? are you more kermy or ms. piggy? >> kermit all the way. >> jim henson, that was his alter ego. i relate to that. kermit was a pretty nice guy, trying to make sense of a bunch of crazies around him. i feel like i fall into that category. >> don't we love kermit because we see him going through it. >> getting frustrated and losing it. doesn't always say the nicest thing, but his heart's in the right place, isn't it? >> i think so. i love it. i hope you come back. ron howard here on our summit series. the film, jim hanson idea man is out, now streaming on disney plus. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> during jim crow, the black family was together. during jim crow, more bla