fight ahead. another hour of "velshi" starts now. good morning. there have been many attempts to hold donald trump accountable for his actions over the years. he has been criminally indicted multiple times since leaving the white house in just the e past couple of years he has been found liable for sexually abusing and prodding writer e. jean carroll. now, he is the first former american president to be convicted of a felony. he will be sentenced on july 11th, just two weeks after his first presidential debate against joe biden and one week before the gop officially makes him its presidential nominee at the republican national convention in milwaukee. and his sentencing, he faces the possibility of being penalized with a fine, probation, or prison time. but none of the efforts to hold trump accountable so far have succeeded in humbling the present or changing his behavior or curbing his attacks on the rule of law. he is the same polarizing and boorish politician we have always known him to be and that has been on stark displacement the jury delivered its verdict in the first criminal trial. yesterday, he invited the media to the gilded atrium of trump tower where he delivered a long and rambling rant attacking the justice system that included some of his trademark sena phobic and anti-immigrant talking points. it was reminiscent of the very beginning of his political career but he wants his first presidential bid nine years ago this month from the lobby of m trump tower. trump had many republican critics back then but those critics have largely been silenced or pushed out by the ed gop or they have surrendered to his takeover of their party. that is perhaps the most significant factor to explain my efforts to hold the former president accountable have fallen short despite the r fact he continues to break every norm in american politics, and m it is happening again to a en terrifying degree as many republicans rally behind their impeached, indicted, presumptive republican nominee. trump's allies began rewriting the history and facts of the case, as well as pre-writing the outcome of an appeal that has not even been filed yet. florida senator marco rubio whor was once a prominent trump critic but now hopes to be his running mate despairs the case has, quote, a political show s, trial conducted by an openly pro-biden judge whose daughter makes money off the case. end quote. those are baseless allegations that have been spreading among the right but there is no evidence to suggest there was anything improper about this case. then on the other mphand, speak mike johnson, the top republican in congress, is already saying that president trump will rightfully appeal this absurd verdict and he will win. end quote. meanwhile, jim jordan, a close trump ally and a chairman of the house judiciary committee as well as the subcommittee on the weaponization of government is now seeking to investigate n the prosecutors. yesterday he sent a letter to manhattan district attorney alvin bragg who led this historic conviction and requested that bragg testify in front of the subcommittee. and it is not just republicans in congress who continue to throw trump a lifeline. he fund raised within minutes un of the jury delivering his verdict and according to the campaign it raised $52.8 million in the 24 hours since the conviction. also take into consideration the money that trump is raking in from wealthy donors were now returning from the fold. republicans have created a bubble that has largely protected the former president from suffering the consequences of his action and so far it has worked. there is a pivotal election five months and four days from today. one of the candidates will dbe convicted felon. but, at this point, it is still unclear how or if what happened this week will change the dynamics of the race. joining me now art david a. graham and susan, the co-author of "the divider" and, david, let me start with you. one the trial began people thought about this case like ith was the runt of the litter of the trump cases. it was not directly linked to the attempt to overturn the election. but that juries have returned a historic guilty verdict. what you think is going to happen as a result of that? >> welcome i think it is really striking how quickly the returned and how convincing the case they made was. i agree that this was maybe a lesser case and i found that the evidence was really overwhelming and the prosecution made a strong case. and i am curious to see how that gets out. i think simply the phrase that donald trump is a felon, having that in the news and around initially important and it is important for people to hear that and to think about what that means. >> susan, you singled out mike johnson's response to the verdict which you called absurd. we are trying to discuss the degree to which donald trump is the republican party and the republican party have been given many off ramps with donald trump and none of them are taking it. >> i think you have gotten right to the heart of the matter which is without the support of the republican party, donald trump for years but have just been an angry old man shouting at the television in between golf games. now, what we are seeing is an escalation. a further metallization in the lengths to which republican officials in the more wholly- owned trump era of the party are willing to go to trump. there was this sort of amazing, sort of under noted incident little more than a week ago in which speaker mike johnson's house of representatives, they literally prohibited jim mcgovern, the top democrat on the rules committee, from even mentioning the fact of donald trump's indictments and of the cases pending before them on the house on the grounds it was insulting to the personality of the presumptive nominee. that is right. just the facts of the case. and i looked this up. there is a crs report that shows this is extraordinarily basically unprecedented behavior and house of representatives. even before the conviction, they were saying it was out of order in mike johnson's congress even to mention the fact of the leader's indictments. >> david, you know, we are often trying to parse what effect this will have on the election and people's thinking but there was something that caught our eye in which you wrote this was the first experiment it united states has ever had in trying to try a former president for a crime though it will probably not be the last. you mean something interesting by that. tell me what you are thinking? >> i mean simply the fact of this trial is really a vote for democracy and for rule of law. even if trump had been found not guilty, we would have had to go through these rituals he found demeaning. i wish more people had seen. when i see these republicans being it a kangaroo court are saying it is all political prosecution, it tells me they did not sit and listen to the evidence and watch as trump's lawyers were unable to challenge stores, challenge evidence, to call their own witnesses. this is the way the thjustice system works in looking at it from that perspective, it was really an uplifting thing at thit an american. i am really sad to see all these misrepresentations. >> susan, there is an interesting point there. whether you read the indictments or the transcripts of the trials, it is important to know that the prosecution -- this is a criminal trial in the state of new york -- they had to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt which is a higher bar than the civil courts they faced. yet the first response from everyone on trump's side of this thing is that it was illegitimate. not that they disagreed with the verdict, which is every american's right, and not that they do not think it does not deserve an appeal. but that the process was illegitimate. >> yeah. that is where i see the escalation. remember, it was only a few years ago that donald trump was running as the court of law and order candidate. on his 2016 chant of "lock her up" to hillary clinton. now, i see them willing to burn down the system itself in defense of donald trump. and that, i think, is something that takes us to a really "next level" scary place. and the response i thought when there was one republican who spoke out giving the old clichis. to david's points, let's respect the rule of law and the system here. this is how america works. kind of clichi hold stuff. the former governor of maryland was actually trashed and called out by his fellow republicans. utah senator mike lee basically said do not respect the verdict. do not respect the system. >> david, it is not just lawmakers. here's the interesting thing for people who have ran for office to help trump survive this politically. we have heard from a couple of wealthy donors and billionaires have come back into the trump fold. people who have been critical in the past. this is how he likes it. donald trump, he has not -- donors nor politicians have taken this opportunity to turn their back on him. >> that is right. they had a chance to be appalled by his behavior and they got used to it. and they like what they see on the policy side. he is promising them the right things. he is promising he is on their side. he is a pro-business candidate. he is willing to trade democracy. >> we appreciate it, david a. graham, and susan glasser , co- author of the book "trump the divider in the white house 2017 through 2021." justice samuel alito story about an insurrectionist flag seen flying outside his home is traveling on front of that but he will not recuse himself from a pair of january 6th related cases, and republicans are already urging the court to step in on donald trump's behalf. plus, what the republican response to donald trump's conviction tells us about the state of the party, politics, and in the fight to come. plus, the very latest on a potential new rounds of negotiation to end the war in gaza. gaza. how do you spe r-o-l-a-i-d-s rolaids' dual-active formula begins to neutralize acid on contact. r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells relief. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. i don't want you to move. i'm gonna miss you so much. you realize we'll have internet waiting for us at the new place, right? oh, we know. we just like making a scene. transferring your services has never been easier. get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight? sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity. president biden gave an unexpected address in the white house yesterday outlining an israeli proposal to end the war in gaza. it is a three-part plan. phase one begins with a six- week cease-fire, the return of some hostages, the return of some remains of dead hostages, the release of some palestinian prisoners, the withdrawal of forces from gaza, palestinians getting return to all parts of gaza, and an significant increase in humanitarian aid. they would also begin negotiating with what biden is calling a permanent end to hostilities. only once that is negotiated will phase two begin, but, importantly, as long as the negotiation continues, no longer how long the cease-fire will continue. then in phase two, the living hostages would be released as well as more prisoners in israel would withdraw its forces from gaza. phase three consists of gaza reconstruction and return of the remaining bodies of dead hostages. in a statement, prime minister netanyahu's office appeared to confirm the proposal did come from israel and in a statement, said that they view biden's speech positively. return to an independent journalist based in israel. i want to ask you something. i do not know how much it matters and it may not matter but there is a lot of discussion about whether this is really an israeli proposal or it is not because benjamin netanyahu has a remarkable ability to confuse things and has tweeted different responses to what biden said at the white house yesterday. >> that is right. so president biden, the president of the united states, announce what he called the israeli brand and they have responded with two vague and confusing reactions. but what i think is important for us is at no point did the israeli government deny that it had signed onto this plan and i think maybe that is what we should focus on, and that may be the political crisis with his more right-wing ministers that netanyahu will be starting to confront tonight. >> all of these things are negative. he is not sure that this one is dead on arrival. largely because, forget the semantics and the little bits of stuff that everyone is going to have to negotiate, but the u.s. seems to have applied pressure on both sides to say this looks very much like a deal proposed a month ago. but this may be the best deal everyone is going to get and they may have to put some sweat into it. what is your take on it? do you think it is real? >> i definitely think it is real. i cannot tell you it is going to work but there is a chance which is not something i thought before. and what is interesting is that president biden seems to be trying to put a coordinated pincer move, if i can say that, on netanyahu in respect that this comes in the same period of time that the more moderate members of netanyahu's government said they will block out his government next week if there is not a plan that netanyahu signed on to. and by saying that this is an israeli plan, biden seems to have handcuffed netanyahu, who is now stuck having to see either know it is not and see the white house release the documents which they have, or for netanyahu to say yes i signed onto this. and that could even have half his government fall apart. some of those they eternal war. or it could make them acknowledge they knew about this and were in on the deal. so we are at a really important juncture and i do not think either side will ignore. we have also seen hamas put out two somewhat contradictory and confusing responses. at the very least, everyone is kind of shocked by what happened. >> we know what is going on around the world. we know that the cia director our meeting. we know that blinken has been talking to american allies in arab countries around the world. what is going on inside israel? what is going on in the street? what are people on the street in israel actually thinking about it? >> well, as soon as i finish with you, i am headed out to see the size of tonight's protests in jerusalem. i know in tel aviv and around the country, there is a feeling that tonight's protests are somehow going to break it down. there have been protests daily and all along, but biden's statement and especially his directly to israelis, don't lose this opportunity. he said this directly. i think that biden's hope is that he will encounter mass support tonight in the bodies and voices of simple israeli citizens who will take to the streets, and i know that organizers are definitely hoping that tonight's protests will be of a different magnitude than what we have seen in the war thus far. >> we appreciate it as always. noga tarnopolsky is an independent journalist with two decades covering the israeli- palestinian conflict. coming up, the supreme court is already in the mid crisis. now the speaker of the house is asking a compromise court to intervene in donald trump's criminal conviction. >> i do believe the supreme court should step in. obviously, this is totally unprecedented, and it is dangerous to our system. people have to believe it is fair. that there is equal justice under law. and i know the justices on the court. they are concerned about it deeply. deeply. ve t abou hose thi ngs thanks to the donations. and our family 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northern california's premier casino resort. book your getaway now at cachecreek.com. i love that my daughter still needs me. but sometimes i can't help due to burning and stabbing pain in my hands, so i use nervive. nervive's clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as 14 days. now i can help again. feel the difference with nervive. when the fourth president of the united states, james madison, talked about the concept of checks and balances in our government, he lighted its crucial role in curbing human ambition. the man known as the father of the constitution famously said, quote, if men were angels then no government would be necessary. the latest scandals in the supreme court involve a pair of legs. they vividly illustrate madison's point. these include troubling revelations that supreme court justices clarence thomas and justice alito accepted lavish gifts from billionaire republican donors including supporters of causes directly linked to cases before the court. the latest scandal involves an upside down american flag displayed at alito's home shortly after the january 6th riot and the christian nationalist flag that was displayed at a vacation home. the flags from the same as those flown by some january 6 riders, have concerns about alito's impartiality and fairness at a time when two january 6th cases are pending before the court. despite mounting calls for alito to recuse himself from the two cases, he doubled down saying that the flag incidents do not meet the conditions for recusal. he claims that his wife put up the initial upside down flag in direct response to a dispute with neighbors, however that was recently debunked as the dispute with neighbors actually occurred weeks after the flag had already been flown. all this comes amid growing calls for supreme court reform, even as republicans in congress have shown little inclination to hold the court accountable. chief justice john roberts issued a defiance statement this week refusing to engage with democrats about the faience concerns and that ethics alone concerned the appropriateness of recusal. according to a recent survey by marquette university law school, a majority of charity ot -- 56% -- believe that the decisions are politically motivated rather than based on law. i am joined by colorado secretary of state chairperson of the democratic association of secretaries of state secretary griswold. thank you for being with us this morning. >> thank you for having me, ali. >> this is not an abstraction for you because the supreme court ruled to remove your attempts to remove donald trump on the ballot for the role that he played in the january 6th riot. in light of these recent controversies and we are learning more about were certain members of the supreme court -- where their sentiments lie on these things, what does this make you think? >> well, always glad to join you, ali. and, you know, i was party to the trump disqualification case were six republican and unaffiliated voters in the state of colorado filed suit saying that trump could not be on the ballot because he engaged in insurrection. that case made its way all the way to the united states supreme court. to tell you the truth, ali, going to the united states supreme court felt a little different than it would under previous courts, precisely because of some of the corruption issues and the fact that clarence thomas's wife was part of the planning of the insurrection or supporting of it. and i do think that there is a major ethics issue with the court. and there is a major conference issue with the court. so we just have to continue to, i think, apply pressure and demand that the court does adopt real ethics reform. now, whether this court's actions would have been different with ethics reform for the trump disqualification case, i don't think it would have. we faced the unanimous decision. but i do understand major concerns with the other january 6th cases that are making their way or are already before the court. >> right. and of course we have the broad question of immunity. that the supreme court has not come forward with a decision. except for the expiration of a court session. and we still have many weeks where this could still happen. but it almost feels like no decision is a decision on determining whether donald trump is immune from anything he did as president. to most laypeople, they think that is an outrageous sort of suggestion but it still has not been determined by the supreme court and that is germane to the fact we have an election in five months and four days. >> that is right. and i think it is really telling when you compare the immunity case to the trump disqualification case. then trump disqualification case was filed with the supreme court during christmas, the week after christmas. the court took it up the first week of january. and we were having oral arguments the second week of february. i believe it was february 6th or february 8th. we saw that case move rapidly impart. it may be because states had to determine whether trump was actually on the ballot or off the ballot for super tuesday. but we did see that the court could move very quickly on a case related to trump. i do want to highlight that the courts may be moving slowly in the community case, but the american legal system does not only rest on the united states supreme court. and we saw that up close and personal with the trump hush money case this week. >> what you make of -- there are some senior democrats who have asked justice roberts to have this discussion. he says the rule is that nobody tells a supreme court justice whether to recuse are not. that is their decision. he may be completely right in legal terms. i don't know enough about these things. but there is a legitimacy crisis out there. it would be great if roberts say that some of you are losing faith in the courts so here's what we are doing to do. but we have not seen much in terms of the court responding to the fact that americans think this is too politicized. i think that is right. the best option would be for the court itself to leave the room. when you have major scandals involving justice thomas and him, himself, taking all those gifts and also his wife's role around the january 6th insurrection and also the attempts to not peacefully transfer the presidency, and then you added the latest scandals of flag-gate. it would seem to me that there are major issues. and i do think it is appropriate for congress people and all elected people to call on the court to do better. we have seen this court rollback under mental freedoms in an unprecedented way in recent times. whether it is, you know, voting rights. whether it is on the rights of women to be full citizens in this country and access healthcare. to some of these major, major cases around donald trump and presidential power. so i think there are options on the table. i would just say the larger picture is we have a democracy in crisis. in large part because donald trump and mega republicans have used all their influence to try to undermine both our legal system, which we saw in the hush money case with some of trump's rhetoric, but in a bigger part our elections. and, yes, we have the supreme court acting as it is. but, remember, americans can take a major step forward in november and continue to safeguard our elections. we cannot despair. we have to continue to show up to the polls and americans can save american democracy in november with their voices and with their votes. >> it seems like that is the one thing everybody across the political spectrum agrees on. we have the ability to make a decision and how we won our country to unfold. and thank you, secretary. jena griswold is the secretary of state of colorado. still ahead, former senator doug jones of alabama and joe walsh of illinois trying to talk about the political response to the donald trump verdict and what it means for 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republic mean? for the future of our democracy if a convicted felon can run for president and do so with the backing of one o.r. two major political parties? i'm joined by o.r. doug jones, alabama. joe walsh is a former republican congressman from illinois. he is the host of the podcast white flight but joe walsh. thank you for being with us. jones, let us start with you. mitch mcconnell said the charges against donald trump should never have been brought in the first place. two of your contenders to replace mcconnell. they called it a disgrace. gender john thune called the case politically motivated. you have worked with all these people. does any of this surprise you? >> yes. it does. some, not so much. some you would absolutely expect. i keep hearing i am ashamed and disgrace. these are the comments coming from republican leaders throughout this country. this was a joy that convicted donald trump. it was not a justice department. it was not a.d.a. it was a joy from new york that convicted him. they are the ones who are attempting to create what they describe as a banana republic. to basically consider our justice system -- to continue to attack our justice system. i do not know if they fully recognize this or not but it is a travesty. >> right. because you are a lawyer and understand some people do not verdicts and judgments. but this is something entirely different. this is the complete undermining of the system, which, by the way, i was just talking to the senator about what is going on in the senate. they said the supreme court should get involved in this. jim jordan called on alvin bragg to testify for his weaponization of committee. what you make of this? >> and, ali, it is consistent though. look at what donald trump has done. he has absolutely destroyed the faith in our elections system in the last three to four years. must republican leaders no longer have faith in our election system and now he is doing the same exact thing with our justice system. ali, this may sound funny, but donald trump is the luckiest guy in the world. think about it. 3 1/2 years ago he tried to overthrow an american election. he will not be put on trial for that before the selection. he used the powers of his office to overturn georgia. he will not be put on trial for that before the selection. he still classified documents and then obstructed the search and retrieval of those documents, and he will not be put on trial for that before the selection. instead, he has been convicted for paying hush money to a porn star he had sex with 15 years ago. it has given mitch mcconnell and susan collins and all of these republicans who do not like trump -- this case has given them all a real easy excuse to say this conviction is bull. >> senator, there are a lot of close races in this country. we heard it will not change minds. for most people, they have made up their decisions anyway. but take a look at these numbers. 15% say they are more likely to vote for him. 17% say they are less likely to vote for him. to the extent the real verdict will come out on november 5th when people make their electoral decisions, is there anything to be done about this? like is there anybody to be convinced? because it seems like people are largely unmoved by this. >> we have got a long way though. we have got conventions. we have got a debate. we have got sentencing that has got to come up. we have got a long, long way to go before november. what you are looking at there is a national poll. 2% or 3% is going to make a difference in those battleground states. yes. unfortunately, i think so many people are made up. people are going to vote for or against a team, and you are not going to move them. you are not going to be moved at all. but there is a swab of americans i believe can be persuaded and can be moved in just a few percentage points will make a difference in the swing states. and that is clearly going to decide the election. and i think camp trump is going to have to deal with that. because it is not just the conviction. it is the underlying fact that people often have to remember. paying hush money to a porn star and then lying about it. i believe it is going to make a difference. it will ultimately make the difference in the election. >> joe, you and i have talked for years on the stuff. there were a lot of lines you across, you and your college lacrosse, that we did not think people would cross. what is in line with republicans? what is the line they will not cross? what is the exit ramp they have to take? what is it? >> and, by the way, ali, this is a really important point. this was not it . my great fear is not just with trump space, but this ruling with almost every republican and sadly i think a lot of independence, they think this indictment was unfair. they think this indictment was a stretch. but, to answer your question, there is no line. again, allie, i know i am a broken record. for the first time in american history, a president lost an election and refuse to secede and then he refused to. he tried to overturn the election. they would have thrown him to siberia never to be heard from again. my former party is fully radicalized. there is no line. there is nothing that donald trump can do to peel most republican voters off of him. >> so, senator jones, people have been asking and calling in on radio shows and saying things like will this be the excuse for republicans to do the -- do whatever they are going to do. no. republicans are not going to do anything to donald trump. is there something to be done with the hundred million people who did not vote in the last election? there are a bunch of people who you could look at this question to do so you may have a convicted felon who is about to become the president of the united states. to your point, connect the dots. if he lied about this what else is he lying about? >> absolutely. i think you really nailed it with that question. we are looking at a situation where we did have more people voting in 2020.. but we still in so many states, there are still 50% of the people that don't vote or 40% of the people that don't vote. even in high states, it is 25% or 30%. i think democrats across the board, not just in blue states, but in these red states and swing states have to start identifying the low propensity voters and nonvoters and go after them to say you have got to get out. this is your duty. you can save america. you can save democracy. and i think it is a very powerful message that needs to be developed from one end of this country to the other. we need to sound warnings that the divisions within this country are what is the biggest threat to democracy. we could talk about donald trump but it is these nonvoters and low propensity voters. they have the ability to change that. >> you get into that. you get into conversations with a bunch of people. in some ways, it is about donald trump but the senator is right. we are very divided people and we have to make a decision and a hot take on what we think of everything based on partisan politics. >> absolutely. and, look, ali, trump does not have anything to prove. america needs to decide what i want this ugly, horrible human being in the white house. ali, this is up to joe biden. i believe there are a lot of undecided voters who do not want to vote for -- i will watch my language -- that guy but they need to be convinced that joe biden is up to the job and can seal the deal. i think this is a great opportunity for biden to show the american people i'm not too old, and to take trump on real strong. i think if he can do that, he can close this deal. >> doug jones is a former democratic senator from alabama. the author of "bending toward justice" which is an amazing degree. joe walsh is a former republican congressman and the author of "f silence. there are more words in that. i am just not going to say them. later, my friend alec went will be joined by stormy daniels attorney, clark brewster, and why she felt the need to wear a bulletproof vest to court. we will be right back. ac bk. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. these underwear are period-proof. and sneeze-proof. and sweat-proof. they're leakproof underwear, from knix. comfy & confident protection that feel just like normal. with so many styles and colors to choose from, switching is easy at knix.com norman, bad news... with so many styles and colors i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is... xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal... i know... faster wifi and savings? ...i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? hi. before we go, i am joining katie things show next hour. the new book, "small acts of courage." after that, i am heading up to canada. if you live up in calgary, this is for you. jamie june 3rd for the annual work fest festival at the grand theater. the address is right there on the screen. to my fellow torononians, i will be in conversation. tickets will be available for those as well. follow me on all the things. x. instagram. linkedin. i am on some things i don't even know exist. thank you. i am back tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern filling in for my colleague. and of course you can join me tomorrow morning from 10:00 a.m. to noon eastern. follow and listen wherever you get your podcasts. you can always catch our best interviews on youtube. head to msnbc.com/youtube and go to